Mini 680: Portlandia- Game Over!


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Post Post #675 (ISO) » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:10 pm

Post by Riceballtail »

chazworthington wrote:That said, with respect to RBT, I would like to know what changed betwen posts 607 and 614, and only eight hours apart. 607 reads like she's pushing the XtomX wagon, and 614 has her listing Ice and KoC as possible scum. Why not mention that in 607? Nothing really happened between them.
This is not true. If you read 607, I am saying that I am against the Xtoxm wagon for the sake of confirming sanities. I'm not voting him, nor do I see myself doing it until I feel confident that people are avoiding the sanity issue and are really voting him for being scummy. 614 was a response to a question as to the two top suspects that I have, as I am fairly sure Xtoxm is town. Nothing changed.

Vote Count as of post 675

(3)Xtoxm: Knight of Cydonia, Zazier, icemanE,
(3)icemanE: bionicchop2, Xtoxm, Farkshinsoup

Not Voting: chazworthington, G-Force, Riceballtail, X
6 votes to lynch.


Also, ZazieR has requested replacement.
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Post Post #676 (ISO) » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:31 pm

Post by G-Force »

Sorry for not posting. I guess this would be a bad time to tell you that I'll be V/LA until monday...
On the bright side, though, I'm through all of the school projects that were holding me back from posting over the past couple weeks, so once I return, I won't be held back as much. Still, given the deadline, if you feel that I need to be replaced, I more than understand.


On to game-related content: My re-read of Xtoxm (including skimming some of his previous games for meta info) yielded pretty much nothing. The only thing that really stood out to me was his defense of Adams D1. It was just the complete confidence that he had that Adams was town. I saw nothing D1 that made Adams "obv-town" as Xtoxm put it. Still, maybe he just saw something I missed.
@Xtoxm: What specifically made you think that Adams was town?
Also, why is Zaz so obviously scum? Even if we assume that you're town, isn't it possible that I'm insane and Zaz is paranoid or vice versa? Am I missing something? If there are three cops, then sane/insane/paranoid seems a likely enough combination, and if q21 was sane, then the investigations make sense for you being town. I believe that someone else has pointed out this logic as well.

I'm sort of ambivalent about the icemanE case to be honest. I feel that X made some good points that his play could easily be construed as townie. Still, I find his willingness to lynch by the cops investigations without any clue as to sanity a bit scummy.

Since I will be absent, I will not commit to any vote at this time.
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it.
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Post Post #677 (ISO) » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:44 pm

Post by Knight of Cydonia »

Completely ignoring the sanities, let's look at the fact Xtoxm chainsawed massively for Adams D1, implying that he knew Adams was town and wanted to have an "i told you so" card; the fact he has admitted that he is checking on his meta, after I posted a meta case highlighting the similarities between his play as scum in another Mini and in this one; and the way he utterly clammed up when two guilties were claimed on him, and only returned to some kind of defence when RBT and bionic managed to get people to look away from Xtoxm's general scumminess, and instead focus people on cop sanities.
I will say it again for those who need it drilled in a little harder - I AM NOT VOTING XTOXM BECAUSE OF THE COP RESULTS. I AM VOTING HIM BECAUSE HE IS SCUMMY. Finding out a little - but not a huge amount, admittedly - about our cop sanities would be a byproduct of the lynch, certainly - but it would be part of the end, not the means or reason.
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Post Post #678 (ISO) » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:50 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

Still here, still busy - sorry guys.
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Post Post #679 (ISO) » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:01 am

Post by bionicchop2 »

1. Does anybody think a player outside of Xtoxm / iceman should be lynched today? If not, we should focus there.

2. If we do focus there, the players not voting need to express which of those 2 players they think is scum.

I request this because there is a stagnation setting in. We should progress closer to a lynch and discuss the options in detail.
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Post Post #680 (ISO) » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:21 pm

Post by Xtoxm »

Zazier.
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin
you were the only wolf i townread at endgame - the worst
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Post Post #681 (ISO) » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:33 pm

Post by X »

FoS: Chaz
for being mysterious. Perhaps not your fault, but it is a little odd. Once you're allowed to talk, I expect to hear something significant. Also, I don't see the big difference between 607 and 614.

That being said,
Vote: RBT
. If that's the most that we're going to get out of you when you are directly asked to contribute significantly and have no votes on you, we'll just have to put more pressure on, now won't we?

To bionicchop2: I think it's early to limit ourselves to 2 options.
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Post Post #682 (ISO) » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:01 pm

Post by Riceballtail »

Sorry for defending myself against a misrepresentation of my posting? You sound like scum reaching for straws, because you don't see either Xtoxm or Iceman being lynched today. Including a fake miller claim, it would make perfect sense that you were scum.

However, I do agree that we shouldn't be limiting ourselves quite yet. We still have two weeks to make a decision, which has plenty of time for discussion.
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Post Post #683 (ISO) » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:18 am

Post by Knight of Cydonia »

As long as it ends with an Xtoxm lynch and a good idea of his scumbuddy/ies, Fine.
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Post Post #684 (ISO) » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:46 pm

Post by X »

Riceballtail wrote:Sorry for defending myself against a misrepresentation of my posting?
Don't be sorry about that. Be sorry for not commenting on
anything else
.
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Post Post #685 (ISO) » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:45 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

unvote
. This game has gotten away from me. I should have more to contribute on Monday.
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Post Post #686 (ISO) » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:12 am

Post by Knight of Cydonia »

3-3 in the voting, wth... how long to go now?
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Post Post #687 (ISO) » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:14 am

Post by bionicchop2 »

Knight of Cydonia wrote:3-3 in the voting, wth... how long to go now?
We have at least 11 days now (deadline in 1st post). This fell to the bottom of my watched list below 2 completed games. Holiday ending, so will get caught up soon.
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Post Post #688 (ISO) » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:10 pm

Post by X »

Alive players, by # of days since last post.

bionicchop2 - (0)
Knight of Cydonia - (0)
Farkshinsoup - (1)
X - (2)
Riceballtail - (3)
Xtoxm - (4)
G-Force - (5)
chazworthington - (6)
icemanE - (7)
ZazieR...asked for replacement.

Anyone else think that's sad? (Besides, obviously, bionicchop2.)
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Post Post #689 (ISO) » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:10 am

Post by Knight of Cydonia »

Yes. We really need a mass-prod, mod.
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Post Post #690 (ISO) » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:24 am

Post by Riceballtail »

I'm also in agreement with some mass-prod action.

Also, after some thought, for now I'm going to
VOTE:Zazier
. While asking for replacement isn't scummy in itself, the position of which she left in, after some heavier lurking and suspicious places may be situational.

Also, the thought occurred to me that the two remaining cops could actually both be scum, and G-Force claimed cop to add to the confusion, in an attempt to protect a scumbuddy. I feel like this is a farfetched gambit to try and pull D1, I could also see it being a possibility due to the fact the idea is fairly remote from most normal schools of thought. This is mostly thinking out loud, but I thought it may be worth actually mentioning the possibility of this.
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Post Post #691 (ISO) » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:04 am

Post by bionicchop2 »

X wrote:
Anyone else think that's sad? (Besides, obviously, bionicchop2.)
I actually didn't expect much posting over the last 4 days, so I don't think it is that bad. We will see how quick everybody gets back into the swing of things.
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Post Post #692 (ISO) » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:17 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

Hey guys, I'm finally doing my reread of Day 1 and beyond. Should have a PBPA up tonight with a vote.
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Post Post #693 (ISO) » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:34 am

Post by bionicchop2 »

I find RBT's vote on a player who is no longer a part of this game very interesting. Votes on players who won't defend themselves or respond to the vote always catch my attention.
The above written statement is pro-town.
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Post Post #694 (ISO) » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:46 pm

Post by chazworthington »

Sorry for the lengthy absence. Long story made short: I'm co-producing a community theatre show that opened last Friday. The problem was the set was still getting built that Friday AND Saturday. Not really time for anything else.

X wrote:
FoS: Chaz
for being mysterious. Perhaps not your fault, but it is a little odd. Once you're allowed to talk, I expect to hear something significant. Also, I don't see the big difference between 607 and 614.
I haven't asked the mod yet, but if you searched my games (there aren't many) you should see the lesson I learned. As for 607 and 614, the former read to me as RBT pushing along the XtomX lynch, while 614 is rather the opposite.


@BC: I'm not so sure we want to limit ourselves to two people to lynch today just yet. We did that late yesterday and we've got one person on the list both days. I think the heat needs to be spread around more. Having said that, I would support an iceman lynch.

@G-Force: My issue with Zaz is her behavoir D1. She disappeared once the pressure was off her. Then there is this:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 55#1272755

This is a Newbie game Zazier replaced into. The page I linked to (if I did it right) has her claiming cop when she was really a mafia roleblocker. The way she does it in that thread feels very similiar to her post in this thread.
Zazier wrote: No-lynch is better than lynching the cop
I'm impressed by your scumdar, xtoxm
She didn't answer the PM question until q21 did. And her post 411 in this thread is scummy as can be, assuming a mafia roleblocker is in play.

As for D2, she came out voting for XtomX confident in her sanity.

That's my problem with Zaz. Of course, we need to wait for a replacement now, but I find her play extreamely scummy.

Lastly,
FOS: Fark
Popping in and out of the thread to tell us where you are without any content is a scumtell in my book.

Actually, not lastly as I still owe Fark an answer to XtomX's previous games. I'll find it in the next day or so, but if someone's looking for something to do and is getting ansy there are plently of XtomX games that I didn't reference in my previous post
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Post Post #695 (ISO) » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:56 pm

Post by bionicchop2 »

chazworthington wrote:And her post 411 in this thread is scummy as can be, assuming a mafia roleblocker is in play.
I would imagine there is no mafia role blocker based on the information we have.

Both claimed cops have investigation results. I would imagine one would be blocked if there was a RB.
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Post Post #696 (ISO) » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:44 pm

Post by Xtoxm »

That's my problem with Zaz. Of course, we need to wait for a replacement now, but I find her play extreamely scummy.
WHY??

No, we don't. We have a claim. It's pretty much confirnmed BS. We should just lynch scum.
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Post Post #697 (ISO) » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:44 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

Finally did my re-read. These PBPA's take a while to put together, and I didn't really want to comment on the game until I went back and examined that Day. The bottom line: Xtoxm stood out as the scummiest player there.

Bionic's posts 618 and 622 made me question whether I was on the right wagon, but now I'm sure.

I'm completely disregarding the cop investigations - with sanities in question they tell us nothing whatsoever, they are just a distraction at this point.

I'm also going to disregard all of the meta analysis on Xtoxm. (I wish I'd done the re-read before I posted 639) It's a huge null-tell. Here's why:

Xtoxm, when he replaced in, must have recognized immediately that he has played with several of the players in this game, including bionic, who knows him well enough to say this:
bionic wrote:I have completed 2 games with him (I think) and am in 3-4 games with him now. Since I am in my 16th game on the site, that is a high percentage for him to be involved in.
He also has a distinctive play style, so he would know that if he was scum, he couldn't just fly under the radar. He said this:
Xtoxm wrote: I haven't been watching my own meta as such, I am simply aware of it
and this:
Xtoxm wrote:
I haven't played anything like my fucking scum meta, this is the most fucking pro-town i've been in ages.
You are idiots.
He also said this early on:
Xtoxm wrote:RBT has played with me before and knows this is how I play. Even though you admit you know this, FOSing me is ridiculous.

I believe Bionic has seen a good example of similar play of mine as town...Razz
So being aware of his own meta, and also being aware that many players would call him on it if he started acting "off" by his own standards, it's clear that any arguments for or against Xtoxm based on his meta will quickly devolve into a huge steaming pile of WIFOM.

So back to Day 1. Here's what xtoxm said when he first replaced into the game, when Adams was close to being lynched:
Xtoxm wrote:Okay, skimmed through.

The miller claim is horrible...Not that I find it scummy, infact I think he's probably town, but it gives the scum more information that we don't want them having this early on.

On Adams.
I notice someone mention this...
I agree that I don't find his voting of X scummy.
Overall, not really sure what to make of him, but I don't think such a quick lynch is warranted...Well, maybe i've gotten too used to Day One's being much longer than this. But I think we have potentially better options for today, as of now.
Right off the bat, he's already trying to mis-characterize why Adams was nearing a lynch. Notice these:

Directed to Adams:
Q21 wrote:For me I don't see scumminess in your vote. I saw scumminess in the fact that you removed your vote for no reason other than to lessed the pressure on yourself. "if that makes you guys comfortable" is I believe the wording you used. A few things you have said since then have bothered me too.
Same here:
KoC wrote: Make that 4. Vote: MrAdams
The fact you unvoted for no reason other than to try and get votes off you stinks. If you'd said "Okay, I was wrong about wanting to lynch unconfirmed Miller", it might have made more sense, but you didn't. I suspect if people had left you alone about it that vote would have stayed there all the live-long day.
Fark wrote:I see no reason to switch my vote. All of Adams' posts do one of 3 things:
1- illustrate, quite pointedly, that he is a newbie. We get it. But newbies can be scum, too. They're just easier to catch.
2 - restate his utter surrender and desire for this day to end quickly, or conversely,
3 - inject doubt into his possible lynch (the jester thing, trying to make us think that he's an innocent townie who's learned a lesson the hard way)
So Xtoxm's doubts (and the doubts he has about everyone's votes for Adams) seem trumped up to me. He later said this:
Xtoxm wrote:Pretty much any lynch on...What was it, page 5...The votes are probably complete shit.
He doesn't say that the arguments are complete shit, just the votes. This is a clever way of disparaging his wagon without having to single anyone out.
q21 wrote:But the votes directed his way weren't complete shit.
QFT.

From there he goes to absolute certainty about Adams' townie status, always just stated, with no reasons why, sometimes along with a "I'll defend him to the death" statement. I honestly can't remember the last time I was in a game where anyone defended someone that vociferously on Day 1.

Also on Day 1, Xtoxm went after Zaz from the start. Fine, Zaz has looked suspicious to others as well. But it's Xtoxm's interactions with KoC that I find most interesting.
Many times on Day 1, he implies that KoC is scum:
In response to this:
KoC wrote:You went from not having any concrete suspect other than just saying "there are better lynches" with no evidence for any of them, to leaping on Zazier with a single line of evidence, without even asking Zazier if there was any reasoning behind her vote still being there.
Xtoxm says this:
Xtoxm wrote:I read the thread.

And that's a such a horrible post it makes me almost want to change my vote.
Then this, again directed at KoC:
Xtoxm wrote:3 suspects?
OMG SO SCUMMY
. It's not like there's 3 scum in this game...No, there's just one scum, isn't there?

Seriously, that is crap...
Then this:
Xtoxm wrote:Lol.

Thing is i'm not sure this is actually a scumtell from you after how you played in Lover's Multiball...But I think i'll feel better assuming you're scum...

So yeh, you're scum.
So he clearly thinks that KoC is scum.
Why didn't he vote for him on Day 1? Why keep his vote on Zaz throughout (he's pushing pretty hard for her lynch right now, doesn't even want to wait for her replacement) I find it exceedingly scummy to accuse someone of being scum but not actualy backing it up with a vote.

When he does finally vote him on Day 2, this is what he says:
Xtoxm wrote:
Vote KoC


As as i'm concerned,
even if he's town
he's been far too scummy for me not to vote him.
He also did the same thing to me on Day 1:
Xtoxm wrote: I'd be ok with a Fark lynch too I think he's being to anti-town right there's a fair chance he's scum.
When I challenged him to back this up with a vote, he responded 20 minutes later with this:
Xtoxm wrote:Actually I think you look more like a townie who is certain they've caught a scum, and nothing anyone says is going change your mind.
SCUMMY. AS. HELL.

Vote:Xtoxm
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Post Post #698 (ISO) » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:48 am

Post by chazworthington »

bionicchop2 wrote:
chazworthington wrote:And her post 411 in this thread is scummy as can be, assuming a mafia roleblocker is in play.
I would imagine there is no mafia role blocker based on the information we have.

Both claimed cops have investigation results. I would imagine one would be blocked if there was a RB.
My post was worded poorly. I meant that Zaz was using the assumption of a mafia roleblocker in post 411.
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Post Post #699 (ISO) » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:36 am

Post by bionicchop2 »

chazworthington wrote:
bionicchop2 wrote:
chazworthington wrote:And her post 411 in this thread is scummy as can be, assuming a mafia roleblocker is in play.
I would imagine there is no mafia role blocker based on the information we have.

Both claimed cops have investigation results. I would imagine one would be blocked if there was a RB.
My post was worded poorly. I meant that Zaz was using the assumption of a mafia roleblocker in post 411.
I wasn't overly concerned with who said it, just pointing it out really. I didn't think the comment was scummy, but I wanted to address the line of thinking that there may be a role blocker.
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