Mini 2297 | Conception | Postgame

[IceDragon70]

Welp we (as in me and hebi both) thought he claimed that he himself can’t be roleblocked lmao

How would that make sense as a town role????

[IceDragon70]

and furtive is 1-shot.
if it wasn't keeper or icedragon, we've got a liar.

Indeed.

[IceDragon70]

Yeah

And why do you townread Blue?

[furtiveglance]

Can I ask Flavor Leaf:

It seems to me, and you said it yourself that you got mod clarification, that the Keeper being Affiliation could mean they're either town or scum.

Why claim and oppose their elimination like you did?

[Abnegation]

he claimed he could prevent someone else from getting roleblocked. i'd think he would use it.
@icedragon - can you claim targets?

Yes, and now that everyone's claimed I might as well claim my

real

role.

Sound of other people saying "wait what?"

I'm not actually anti-roleblock, I'm anti-redirect. Like I choose a person and they can't be redirected.
I false claimed for several reasons:
1. I felt the false claim would sound more believable (it did). This might sound scummy, but there's actually town motivation not to be mislimmed. I mean this ended up causing Rauther to be correctly limmed.
2. It would cause scum to think twice about using roleblock due to WIFOM, which is actually good for town as it makes scum do non-optimum plays.
3. It would make scum not play around my anti-redirect.
4. It might lead to interesting situations where I can correctly claim later and prove someone as town/scum.
I actually believe no 4 worked because Hugir claimed redirector and I find it hard to believe that I will be given a town role that only counters a town role, rather than a scum role. Therefore I believe Hugir really is redirector, but they are scum.
Except I wonder what motivation does Hugir have to lie about who they redirected?
I find it highly unlikely we have 2 redirectors here, but a random redirect sounds even less likely. So for now willing to vote Hugir.
VOTE: Hugir



Oh yeah and my targets:
N1 - Abnegation
N2 - Aisa

why did you target

me

n1? the miller claim? who fullclaimed on page 2?

[Abnegation]

did you think i had something else as well that could be redirected?

[IceDragon70]

he claimed he could prevent someone else from getting roleblocked. i'd think he would use it.
@icedragon - can you claim targets?

Yes, and now that everyone's claimed I might as well claim my

real

role.

Sound of other people saying "wait what?"

I'm not actually anti-roleblock, I'm anti-redirect. Like I choose a person and they can't be redirected.
I false claimed for several reasons:
1. I felt the false claim would sound more believable (it did). This might sound scummy, but there's actually town motivation not to be mislimmed. I mean this ended up causing Rauther to be correctly limmed.
2. It would cause scum to think twice about using roleblock due to WIFOM, which is actually good for town as it makes scum do non-optimum plays.
3. It would make scum not play around my anti-redirect.
4. It might lead to interesting situations where I can correctly claim later and prove someone as town/scum.
I actually believe no 4 worked because Hugir claimed redirector and I find it hard to believe that I will be given a town role that only counters a town role, rather than a scum role. Therefore I believe Hugir really is redirector, but they are scum.
Except I wonder what motivation does Hugir have to lie about who they redirected?
I find it highly unlikely we have 2 redirectors here, but a random redirect sounds even less likely. So for now willing to vote Hugir.
VOTE: Hugir



Oh yeah and my targets:
N1 - Abnegation
N2 - Aisa

why did you target

me

n1? the miller claim? who fullclaimed on page 2?

I thought you might have an extra ability. Also, you were my best townread. Sowwwyyy.

[IceDragon70]

[IceDragon70]

Also, any thoughts on Hugir?

[Abnegation]

not quite. i'm re-reading a bunch of stuff.

[Abnegation]

found the proof that keeper and fl are both claiming their real roles. so they aren't both malediction.

Spoiler: quotes

the crumb actiondan pointed out:

To find myself in affiliation with the invocation against the supposed good of a benediction in contradistinction from malediction is a situation of much confusion.

One would hold The Legemeton while other holds The Book of Virtues, while I must wander on with The Idiots Guide to Telepathy.

I guess I must aim for the Marked and VOTE: Enchant

another crumb:

But then again I didn't notice the flavour on alignment thing in setup so. If I'd seen that I'd have gone with the assumption that they are indeed scum and waited til day 2 when more information from public night actions is available to present it as a possibility depending on what happened.

I think the whole point of this setup is that there's no "town" and "scum", because the uninformed majority is actually "neutral" in the struggle between good and evil (judging by the fact that we're colored Ike third parties and Benediction is colored like town).

I realized that later, yeah. Invocation is neutral, Malediction is evil, Benediction is good. The question then is... We can likely presume this is a fight between Malediction and Benediction, but then what about Invocation? We can probably assume that Malediction doesn't have the best interests for Invocation, Benediction is perhaps more in the air.
(A situation where this is literally a fight between Malediction and Benediction, and Invocation is literally just the third party with a survivor like win con in the end is amusing to me but I don't think that's the case, I assume there is in fact threats to Invocation based on our win con, we'd literally have already won if there aren't any threats.)

Invocation is the means to obtain both Benediction and Malediction. Affiliation with either is yet to be decided, I'd rather neither as the freedom to invoke both and maintain balance is crucial.

blue posts:

I'm almost sure The Keeper is affiliated with Invocation.

Something related to what their role might be.

If The Keeper says it's okay, I'll explain.

[Feysal]

I think Fey's green, not red.

If I was, I'd be a flyer vendor who wrote the case that led to their checker partner being executed. It does feel like you're crowbarring me to being Benediction.

I'm not actually anti-roleblock, I'm anti-redirect. Like I choose a person and they can't be redirected.

This day is just full of surprises. I actually believed the role you claimed was a perfect complement to Aisa's. Was it Rautherdir's claim that gave you that idea?

Except I wonder what motivation does Hugir have to lie about who they redirected?

Scum would not be able to claim actions that seemed designed to mess with the town. At least, not normally.

Long ago I played in some Lucid Dreamers marathon games, where one tactic I used was dreaming I was a role blocker and switching two people. During the day this would cause a conflict, usually with two players accusing each other of lying, which I would draw reads from. Then I would resolve the conflict by claiming. It was effective, too.

Here though, since I saw Kawaii flip town, I wondered what the hell happened there. Kawaii had called me town the previous day, and it occurred that they might have tried to neighborize me. But, I don't see the point of redirecting from me to Aisa either.

[Abnegation]

I think Fey's green, not red.

If I was, I'd be a flyer vendor who wrote the case that led to their checker partner being executed. It does feel like you're crowbarring me to being Benediction.

imagine giving a scumteam a flyer vendor and a checker without even (from my pov) a regular kill.

[Abnegation]

i agree green!you doesn't write that case.

[Feysal]

One thing occurred to me. Flavor Leaf, did the Keeper ever mention receiving a flyer? They never said anything about it in thread, and now I wonder if they ever got it.

Where is the Keeper anyway? Not to mention Hell Froze Over? The whole point of a treestump is you get to be around in endgame to offer your thoughts. I've been one once, and it was one of my favorite roles ever - still using the avatar from that game.

[Abnegation]

keeper's v/la until monday.

[Hugir]

If I was scum I would’ve fakeclaimed and not claim redirector
I had everyone claimed before me so coming up with one should’ve been easy peasy

[Hugir]

Welp we (as in me and hebi both) thought he claimed that he himself can’t be roleblocked lmao

How would that make sense as a town role????

It didn’t
That’s why we targeted you N2

[Flavor Leaf]

Can I ask Flavor Leaf:

It seems to me, and you said it yourself that you got mod clarification, that the Keeper being Affiliation could mean they're either town or scum.

Why claim and oppose their elimination like you did?

People said to claim

[Flavor Leaf]

+ felt it was the time

[Flavor Leaf]

One thing occurred to me. Flavor Leaf, did the Keeper ever mention receiving a flyer? They never said anything about it in thread, and now I wonder if they ever got it.

Where is the Keeper anyway? Not to mention Hell Froze Over? The whole point of a treestump is you get to be around in endgame to offer your thoughts. I've been one once, and it was one of my favorite roles ever - still using the avatar from that game.

They didn’t say anything about it

[furtiveglance]

Can I ask Flavor Leaf:

It seems to me, and you said it yourself that you got mod clarification, that the Keeper being Affiliation could mean they're either town or scum.

Why claim and oppose their elimination like you did?

People said to claim

Are you townreading them outside of mechanics?

[Flavor Leaf]

Can I ask Flavor Leaf:

It seems to me, and you said it yourself that you got mod clarification, that the Keeper being Affiliation could mean they're either town or scum.

Why claim and oppose their elimination like you did?

People said to claim

Are you townreading them outside of mechanics?

I was, but they haven’t been posting, and I kinda forgot why.

However, I’ve seen town them play odd and not be around a lot too.

I also don’t think the redirect thing automatically makes Hugir scum

[Flavor Leaf]

@Feysal - I don’t really understand the reasoning, but I’m assuming there’s something I missed.

Everyone keeps saying “crowbarring/strongarming” into one alignment.

No. All i did was say what I think it was, i said nothing abou possibility of it being other wise.

That’s twice I’ve been pushed as having stronger reads than i do.

I havent even been focused on Feysal last couple pages, and am a big refocusing setup. Just haven’t felt like moving vote just yet cuz why not keep it there

[furtiveglance]

I had no reason to claim that as scum without being scum with Keeper here either.

It's purely a Keeper defense.

I just didn't want to go down that pipeline.

This implies you felt pretty strongly that they were town, doesn't it?