Mini 2297 | Conception | Postgame

[Aisa]

Big round of questions:

@Hugir

Spoiler:

I'm finally having a quick chance to read the game and not on phone.
And I think I'm beginning to see why Ice was being wagoned.

Page 2 was awkward, and

Guys we've had a fuckton of mechanical discussion but barely any scumhunting.
I'm gonna VOTE: ActionDan because I like their ISO the least.

is also awkward when he seemed engaged on that mechanical discussion.

With that said, I'm trying to focus on The Keeper posts but I played like 5 games of Binding of Isaac and the furthest I've reached was Mom's heart so I have no idea what he's referencing most of the time lol.

Interesting. What felt awkward?

Spoiler:

I think in a game like this where there are only few people talking and the rest silent, there tends to be like 1 active scum and rest non-active. But that's normal games so idk how things tend to be in multiball.

What's your best guess of how active / inactive scum have been?

----

@Feysal

Spoiler:

Actually thinking about it, I should probably try to catch rolestoppers instead of doing random shots in the dark, so I believe I know who my target should be tonight if I live.

I think you are underestimating the potential of your role. I can easily think of half a dozen roles that you could provide direct or indirect evidence of. I would recommend you pick someone you think is likely to be nightkilled, and don't tell who in advance.

What do you think is good about a checker targeting someone who is likely to be nightkilled?

Spoiler:

I'm starting to get the impression that Rautherdir is posting his unfiltered thoughts, without stopping to think things through, and stumbled into contradictory stances.

UNVOTE: Rautherdir
VOTE: IceDragon70

I don't have much on IceDragon, for or against him, but time is running out and we need to pick someone.

ActionDan, Rautherdir, Abnegation, furtiveglance and me, that is two votes short of an execution. I hope he will be back from his V/LA soon to respond.

Interested in what you were thinking around this time. What made Rauth seem unfiltered?

Spoiler:

Unfortunately, I don't think that's ai for them. We could try flashwagoning them though if you want to.

I agree it is null, but right now I think both the alternatives are more likely to be town than a shot in the dark. And there is the theory that when multiple replacements happen, they are

slightly

more likely to be scum, because knowing you lost a partner can be demoralizing. Yes, I admit that is weak.

I'm setting my clock to wake me before the deadline, should I need to change my vote.

UNVOTE: IceDragon70
VOTE: KawaiiKame

How likely did you think this flashwagon was to go through?

Spoiler:

I think that {Rauth, Ice} is almost surely not all town. If this flips blue I'm pretty confident that Ice is green.

I actually think both of them are town now. If I had to name my best bet for scum heading into night, it actually is KawaiiKame. That instant buddying in response to a hint of pressure was too weird.

What did you think of the mechanical argument for {Rauth, Ice} not both being town?

----

@IceDragon

Spoiler:

Don’t like any of the current wagons?

I don't either tbh
I'm gonna finish catching up but if I don't see a wagon I like I'll have tonvote goldfish as well.

Uhuuh can't expect a "I'll have to vote Goldfish" to not catch my eye! Why would my slot have been the vote of choice?

[Aisa]

We need momentum
VOTE: IceDragon70

we have 6 hours left, we need an execution.
could you share reads if you've got any?

I'm liking feysal with what I'm seeing, enchant feels okay, straight up claiming green is nai in rvs is nai to me, rauth feels slight town/null, I'm not liking that furitive is wagon flipping though this might be how town furitive acts, 0 conviction, I feel you okay, we do need an execution

Wait furitive said the momentum is with raith but I'm not feeling it
*rauth

@KawaiiKame:

can you say a bit more about not feeling Rauth at the time?

my ending thoughts are that Abnegation; Feysal; Hugir are all pretty strong town, for multiple reasons. Massive gap between them and anyone else in the spectrum. I think Ice is scummier than not but very much not certain will reassess over the night.

@ActionDan:

interested in your reasons.

[Aisa]

(You'll all be relieved to know I have no other questions for now )

So.

Why only one kill?

Feels like it could be 37 different reasons? Do you have an opinion?

[Enchant]

(You'll all be relieved to know I have no other questions for now )

So.

Why only one kill?

Feels like it could be 37 different reasons? Do you have an opinion?

no

[Enchant]

(You'll all be relieved to know I have no other questions for now )

@
Immediately asks question

[Hugir]

@Aisa
P2 looked forced and the second part also looked kinda looked forced because he’ve been indulged with mech speak quite deeply and all of the sudden made that post like he hasn’t been doing such.

With that said though

@Mod: this (only) active head is in V/LA until Friday

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: KawaiiKame

Looking back, they could be Rautherdir's partner. Either way the momentum wasn't with IceDragon at that time so it looks weird whether partnered or not.

[Enchant]

I doubt you get response soon.

[The Keeper]

Invocation is the means to obtain both Benediction and Malediction. Affiliation with either is yet to be decided, I'd rather neither as the

freedom to invoke both and maintain balance

is crucial.

Bolded is what I'm talking about.

Almost like for a dead body I've had some time to think on things...

Light flees from The Keeper; They are not a disciple of

Benediction

.

And perhaps this is a soft clear of sorts?

I am amused, bearly into The Dross and already I seem to be presented with a chance to Seraphim.

[Aisa]

(You'll all be relieved to know I have no other questions for now )

@
Immediately asks question

Old habits…

[Abnegation]

We need momentum
VOTE: IceDragon70

we have 6 hours left, we need an execution.
could you share reads if you've got any?

I'm liking feysal with what I'm seeing, enchant feels okay, straight up claiming green is nai in rvs is nai to me, rauth feels slight town/null, I'm not liking that furitive is wagon flipping though this might be how town furitive acts, 0 conviction, I feel you okay, we do need an execution

Wait furitive said the momentum is with raith but I'm not feeling it
*rauth

i can see this being benediction.

@aisa - does this not remind you a little of how we tried to defend titus in chatgpt? same vibes imo.

[Aisa]

Yeah this could easily be the same thing.

[Aisa]

"Why are you not voting Kawaii?"

I guess I'm wondering - does anyone here have any familiarity with Kawaii? Is their tone their usual town tone? Is this too easy? What alignment is everyone else? I don't really have a feel for this game so I'm not really aching to flashwagon Kawaii right this very second. But the people on the wagon have points.

On an unrelated note today I found out that it's pronounced WAH-gon not WAY-gon and I'm so upset

[Abnegation]

i've played with town!kawaii before (game link here). the tone is the same, but i'm not scumreading them for tone. it's more that their content doesn't really make sense and might point to being partnered with rauther.
they are way lurkier here, but it seems they've flaked the site.

[Abnegation]

so idk if the lurkiness is saying much.
i'm not familiar with their scumgame.

[Abnegation]

lol what is that wording?
i forget what i was even trying to say there.

[Feysal]

Am I not also cleared of greenscum by interaction with Rauther? I wouldn't expect scum to omgus their partner when the deadline is near and there's probably better pushes.

Honestly, no. Rival wagons on scum partners may be rare, but I have seen it happen. In that case, I believe the best option is to bus your partner with impunity, because not doing so looks horribly conspicuous. Case in point, KawaiiKame, who did not even have any wagon.

I am wondering why you would be worried about the green team anyway? I believe KawaiiKame is the last of them, and if so, being confirmed as non-Benediction is irrelevant.

Just a note though: assuming 2v2v9, would it be dangerous to execute Benediction over Malediction today?

This is quite strange to me. Getting rid of one scum team so we have only one nightkill to deal with is the obvious right move. Malediction would want Benediction to survive a little longer because more townies dying would benefit them.

[Hell Froze Over]

i've played with town!kawaii before (game link here). the tone is the same, but i'm not scumreading them for tone. it's more that their content doesn't really make sense and might point to being partnered with rauther.
they are way lurkier here, but it seems they've flaked the site.

So, curious thing, did anyone notice they were actually online for a brief window at the end of D1, around a quarter hour before the hammer?
Notably, they did not hammer.
~b

[Abnegation]

Okay anyway, I am planning to do an analysis of the wagons from yesterday and then we see who could potentially be scum.

Just a note though: assuming 2v2v9, would it be dangerous to lim benediction over Malediction today?
Probably not but I am kinda tired rn so I'll do the math later or something.

Spoiler: i did the math

assuming 2v2v9. 1 green, 2 red, and 8 blue remaining.

d2 ---> lim green ---> green gone, 2v8. assuming 1 kill per night, the game proceeds as singleball with 2 scum and 2 safe mislims. third mislim is a loss. elo arrives on d5 at the earliest.

d2 ---> lim red ---> 1v1v8. assuming 2 kills per night that only hit town and we don't yeet any scum, d5 is still endgame but it's a weird prisoner's dilemma and the game basically becomes wifom city from then on. and this is role madness so it's even wifomier lol. if the green factional ability isn't a kill, it's a little more complicated.

wiping benediction off the board is better by virtue of being more straightforward, but i don't think a red scum lim is bad. it's just swingier and more complicated.

p-edit: feysal also did the math but in a less complicated and less mathematical way.

[Abnegation]

i've played with town!kawaii before (game link here). the tone is the same, but i'm not scumreading them for tone. it's more that their content doesn't really make sense and might point to being partnered with rauther.
they are way lurkier here, but it seems they've flaked the site.

So, curious thing, did anyone notice they were actually online for a brief window at the end of D1, around a quarter hour before the hammer?
Notably, they did not hammer.
~b

i didn't notice that.
that could be sus, but i'd honestly be surprised if they even looked at this game. they seemed completely checked out.

[Narration]

@Mod: this (only) active head is in V/LA until Friday

Noted.

[Aisa]

i've played with town!kawaii before (game link here). the tone is the same, but i'm not scumreading them for tone. it's more that their content doesn't really make sense and might point to being partnered with rauther.
they are way lurkier here, but it seems they've flaked the site.

That's nice background, thanks. Looking at this again:

We need momentum
VOTE: IceDragon70

we have 6 hours left, we need an execution.
could you share reads if you've got any?

I'm liking feysal with what I'm seeing, enchant feels okay, straight up claiming green is nai in rvs is nai to me, rauth feels slight town/null, I'm not liking that furitive is wagon flipping though this might be how town furitive acts, 0 conviction, I feel you okay, we do need an execution

Wait furitive said the momentum is with raith but I'm not feeling it
*rauth

I think "the momentum is with raith but I'm not feeling it" is like, maybe a little oddly timed? And yes it could point to a partner. Disagree it doesn't make sense though.

As you say... I doubt the lurking is alignment indicative for the most part. I'm gonna shrug and wait and see. ^^

[Abnegation]

i should probably make a readslist in the next couple of days, posting here so you guys can yell at me if i forget to do it.

[Feysal]

@Feysal

Spoiler:

Actually thinking about it, I should probably try to catch rolestoppers instead of doing random shots in the dark, so I believe I know who my target should be tonight if I live.

I think you are underestimating the potential of your role. I can easily think of half a dozen roles that you could provide direct or indirect evidence of. I would recommend you pick someone you think is likely to be nightkilled, and don't tell who in advance.

What do you think is good about a checker targeting someone who is likely to be nightkilled?

People likely to be nightkilled are also magnets for other actions from town and scum, and a checker could provide evidence for several roles. For example, failure to check could prove the target had been rolestopped or jailed, or the target was hiding. Success would have ruled out other actions, by other players and the target.

Spoiler:

I'm starting to get the impression that Rautherdir is posting his unfiltered thoughts, without stopping to think things through, and stumbled into contradictory stances.

UNVOTE: Rautherdir
VOTE: IceDragon70

I don't have much on IceDragon, for or against him, but time is running out and we need to pick someone.

ActionDan, Rautherdir, Abnegation, furtiveglance and me, that is two votes short of an execution. I hope he will be back from his V/LA soon to respond.

Interested in what you were thinking around this time. What made Rauth seem unfiltered?

It was the exchange between him and Hell Froze Over starting from post 461, where Rautherdir was wondering whether to check an ascetic IC. Those posts were made in quite quick succession, and it looked like Rautherdir had posted without finishing his thought first.

Spoiler:

Unfortunately, I don't think that's ai for them. We could try flashwagoning them though if you want to.

I agree it is null, but right now I think both the alternatives are more likely to be town than a shot in the dark. And there is the theory that when multiple replacements happen, they are

slightly

more likely to be scum, because knowing you lost a partner can be demoralizing. Yes, I admit that is weak.

I'm setting my clock to wake me before the deadline, should I need to change my vote.

UNVOTE: IceDragon70
VOTE: KawaiiKame

How likely did you think this flashwagon was to go through?

Snowball in hell, honestly. I probably would not have even tried it without Abnegation mentioning a flashwagon a couple hours earlier. I saw no harm in trying though, since I made sure I would be there before the deadline.

Spoiler:

I think that {Rauth, Ice} is almost surely not all town. If this flips blue I'm pretty confident that Ice is green.

I actually think both of them are town now. If I had to name my best bet for scum heading into night, it actually is KawaiiKame. That instant buddying in response to a hint of pressure was too weird.

What did you think of the mechanical argument for {Rauth, Ice} not both being town?

What mechanical argument? If there was one, I missed it. I thought there was no reason they could not both be town, and in fact believed they both probably were.

[furtiveglance]

"Why are you not voting Kawaii?"

I guess I'm wondering - does anyone here have any familiarity with Kawaii? Is their tone their usual town tone? Is this too easy? What alignment is everyone else? I don't really have a feel for this game so I'm not really aching to flashwagon Kawaii right this very second. But the people on the wagon have points.

On an unrelated note today I found out that it's pronounced WAH-gon not WAY-gon and I'm so upset

Sittin on a wagon
Drinking from a flagon
Accosted by a paigon
Shoot em with my ray gun

Game-advancing content: Kawaii green, Keeper + Enchant red