Mini 707: Cops and Robbers Mafia (Game Over)

[charter]

I'm on the ball votecount.

Vote Count:

Mizzy - 1 (q21)
Fuzzyman - 1 (Mizzy)
Simpor - 1 (Ether)

corporate - 3 (Tisp, Fuzzyman, crywolf20084)

Not Voting: (5)

Mister Lolipedo-kun
Simpor
Patrick
Green Crayons
corporate

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!

[Fuzzyman]

WTH?! Shenanigans? Let me explain it more clearly. You voted for Ether without a reason, were questioned about it, didn't have any answers as to why( or none that you've given us), got hammered by GC and me, then unvoted.

[corporate]

ummm... i didnt know i couldnt do that.

[q21]

Just something that caught my attention on reading up. Ether asked for thoughts on her Vote, perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Doubt he's going to.

In other news, no one's commented on my Simpor vote.

She got two kinds of response.

@Ether: I don't have an opinion on the Simpor vote. I'm not sure about your complaints. I'm not entirely sure that all I've been doing is agreeing with you. My problem with his views on me is that he said that I'm contributing a lot. I haven't said anything for several pages. I'm not sure what you mean by fear-mongering though.

I don't get a scum read on corporate. I think he's just being an ass.

This is a throw away one liner. It looks to me like he just put it in there to give the impression that he's being cooperative.

Opposed to this is GC

In other news, no one's commented on my Simpor vote.

Your main point, as much as I can tell from simply skimming the thread, is that Simpor asked Wolf to clarify her point that she thought you had a power role. Did I miss anything else?

While scummish, I don't find it worthy of a vote compared to Mizzy, corp or - if I was to just look at people who were throwing out guesses as to who has power roles - wolf herself.

Who seemed to genuinely try to answer her question.

Nothing by any means earth shaking, but the apparent attitude makes me feel more townie on GC and more scummy on Ped.


***

Also.

You call backpedaling? well, i call shenanigans!

Seriously. WTF. Are you calling shenanigans on yourself, cos it certainly did look like you were back-pedalling. Especially since your unvote didn't offer any reason why your opinion of ether changed.

[corporate]

alright, alright, this might sound crazy, but i got this idea. how about.... we dont kill corporate.

now i know this might sound off coming from me, but i think its a bad idea. i really trust him, i think it would be a waste of a day. especially day1. sure, he is annoying, but he is also harmless. i know this man! its just this feeling i cant seem to shake.

i say there has to be someone better to lynch. we should just keep him around a little while longer.

[Ether]

Man,

now

I'm kinda tempted to lynch him. ¬_¬

Hi, q21. How do you like my Simporvote?

I think it's just your way of speaking. It always seems to me pushing to mold the town into your ways of thinking.

Is that a "meh, maybe it's just your playstyle" or a "meh, you did

something

scummy, dammit"?

[q21]

Ether, I have no real feeling either way on your Simpor vote. Hence I didn't say anything about it.

The only little which just occurred to me is that it sat for half a page and needed you to mention it again before anyone really even noticed it was there. Maybe hints at Simpor being town.

[Ether]

Disagree.

I'd rather someone say "no opinion" than just ignore me.

[q21]

Which bit do you disagree with, ether? The first line or the second.

I don't see a point in commenting unless you have something to say. I only thought of the second ... not really worth calling that a paragraph is it?.. because you asking me specifically made me look at it again.

[Ether]

I meant the second. (I'm not going to challenge whether or not you had an opinion.) Since no one drew any attention toward my vote, scum would have had every reason to downplay it as well.

[q21]

I see it as unlikely that a vote for scum from one of the more dominant players (you) is going to be completely left alone like that. It's by no means conclusive evidence of anything, but I think it points at him being town rather than scum.

[Mister L kun]

@Ether: I don't have an opinion on the Simpor vote. I'm not sure about your complaints. I'm not entirely sure that all I've been doing is agreeing with you. My problem with his views on me is that he said that I'm contributing a lot. I haven't said anything for several pages. I'm not sure what you mean by fear-mongering though.

I don't get a scum read on corporate. I think he's just being an ass.

This is a throw away one liner. It looks to me like he just put it in there to give the impression that he's being cooperative.

I'm not sure what you mean. I took a look at the thread and tried to come up with a reasonable opinion on the Simpor vote. Care to explain?

[Simpor]

I am more and more thinking about corporate as scum or useless townie.
Useless since most of his post are distractions. He started well but after his fourth or fifth post it went downhill..
And scum, well, should a townie act like this in a game? If he is a townie, then he is removing focus from the scums..

[corporate]

i started well? what about all the stuff thats going on up there about you? and you bring me back into this? i think everyone already knows im an ass, captain obvious. what about you?

[corporate]

polly want a cracker?

[Simpor]

i started well? what about all the stuff thats going on up there about you? and you bring me back into this? i think everyone already knows im an ass, captain obvious. what about you?

What is there to comment? No one else have picked up Ethers opinion.
And her reasons where:

Not all questions are pro-town. It is not a responsibility as a townie to vocally seek out power roles.

• But not asking wolf who started it... that is strange, and such have GC stated:

  While scummish, I don't find it worthy of a vote compared to Mizzy, corp or - if I was to just look at people who were throwing out guesses as to who has power roles - wolf herself.

And I really hate the fear-mongering generalization you put into your defense.

She asked a question in a rude way, I made a rude response. Simple as that.

And pretty much all Ped's done is agree with me, and I'm tied for highest on your list. So yeah.

Ok, I have you high up on my scum list, so you are voting for me...

polly want a cracker?

That was a very helpful comment...

[Patrick]

Update. Just to let people know I've been reading, but gave up last night after losing a post to CPU. It's my first priority when I get home today to get something substantial posted. That said,

Vote: Simpor

[Mizzy]

Simpor, I am watching your responses very closely, and so far, I have to say that criminalizing the people who have points against you is not a valid defense. Making rude responses is not answering questions. You whine about how corporate is being anti-town but you are doing the same bullshit he is.

If you don't respond sufficiently, then you are where my vote will go.

[Simpor]

I have to say that criminalizing the people who have points against you is not a valid defense

Where have I done that? Post a quote!

Ehter had one of her reasons against me that I had her high up on my scumlist..

[Mizzy]

Maybe criminalizing was a strong word but you are attacking Ether, not her case against you. You should be answering to her case, not what others think of her case, or what she has done to make her a less-liked person. Your post 240.

[Simpor]

This is the only thing in the case then:

Do you believe that Ether has a power role? And by the way, Ether did ask you who you suspected in post 65 and we are now up in 135. Do you have any suspicions now?

And this is her answer

I think Ether’s trying to get complete control of the town, and I’m not about ready to just hand it over, which makes me pretty suspicious.

No one else was making a comment against her post so I asked wolf to see what kind of reaction I would get, she pretty much ignored my question and I didn't ask again.

[Ether]

You could totally just vote now. We just need to establish that Patrick's town and we're good to go.

It was Simpor's response that led me to vote him.

I could ask you, why the hell do you care what I like about Ped?
I believe that it is a responsibility as a townie to ask questions, if we didn't do that, the scum would win every time.

First off, I dislike the juxtaposition between "How dare you ask me about Ped?" and "I like questions." Second, that's a strawman fallacy, combined with false warnings of doom to push his point home. Yes, asking certain types of questions is necessary, but

his

question was extremely unnecessary.

I don't think Crywolf has ever fished for my role. The "power roles deserve more authority during the day" sentiment is idiotic, but I think I've seen it before. Don't remember specific examples to cite, but it rings a bell.

Fun note about his "questions" overreaction. Searching his posts for question marks, here are the questions he's asked since his original analysis:

• I could ask you, why the hell do you care what I like about Ped?

  Defensive. Still the closest thing to a proper question out of the four.

  And scum, well, should a townie act like this in a game?

  Hypothetical.

  What is there to comment? No one else have picked up Ethers opinion.

  Valid as a point, but technically a hypothetical question.

  I have to say that criminalizing the people who have points against you is not a valid defense

  Where have I done that? Post a quote!

  Just defending himself. ("Defensive" has connotations I'll avoid in this instance.)

Don't see him making up for it with other things, either. Mostly he just lurks and defends himself.

Probably limited access through Sunday due to Thanksgiving break.

[Mizzy]

Limited or no access from tomorrow until Monday, Nov. 30th.

[corporate]

i do think that was a useful comment simpor. because it points out the fact that as soon as you got a little bit of pressure you poped in like a parrot trying to remind people that they dont like me.

infact id say my four word post was more useful then your generic waste of a paragraph in 237.

[Patrick]

What I saw about Simpor was more that he seemed to go to some length to avoid explaining why he asked the question in the first place, instead he seemed to throw it back at Ether, then pointing to crywolf with a, "but she did it as well!" type of defence (which I would disagree with anyway). He has actually answered it now, but not especially convincingly; seems kind of obvious he was asking her for a reaction. Why would it have been useful to get crywolf's take on whether or not Ether's a powerole?

Others players:

Mizzy looked scummy to me early on and has backed off my scumdar a fair bit as other suspicions have appeared. I don't like her reasons in 39: The first paragraph doesn't seem that different to the kind of thing she's used to call Ether protown before (or at least, in one game). I realise Ether and Fuzzyman are different, but it still seems like a pretty shoddy reason. The second paragraph seems more like scolding him than pointing out anything scummy he's done. That said, I don't have any particular problem with her reason for finding Ether protown, and her FoS/attack against Green Crayons (whilst I disagree with it completely) reminds me of the kind of stuff she used to attack me last time we played, especially the "asking questions that weren't his responsibility to ask" thing (similar vibe from her fairly ludicrous comment that Fuzzyman was distracting from the random voting stage, for some reason). From her attitude towards Ether I would guess they're not scum together, but that's not terribly useful to me.

corporate is difficult. I dislike almost everything he's posted; his initial (explained) suspicions seem heavily based around the possibility that Mizzy might be faking a work crisis so she can lurk for 2 weeks, which is a terribly thin reason even for early in the game (is someone likely to fake this when they're in like 2 other games? Seems like mudslinging rather than thoughtful). Then he says it's not that big a deal. His response to Tisp's vote and blanket fos also don't endear me to him either. The only thing that makes me pause is that I think premature claiming is a protown tell for newbies (although the mention of wifom there made me twitch slightly). His suicidal tendencies are mostly null in my book; if he's town, I would really like him to read back and respond to the accusations made against him. Unlike alot of the wagons like this I've seen, I actually do think there's something valid in it and find him somewhat scummy, but it's not straightforward.

I think Ether is very likely town. She's usually much more withdrawn than this as scum, and many times her thoughts have matched mine as I was reading through the thread. The latter point is also true for Green Crayons who I'm seeing as fairly protown; he seems to be really reading people's posts closely and noticing things, and his unvote on corporate also seems somewhat protown regardless of what corporate is.

crywolf bothers me in the sense that it feels like the highlight of her play is a pretty big overreaction to being poked at to post more content. crywolf, did you ever explain why you think leading the town is scummy? Other than that, I don't particularly like how she picked up on Mizzy's "ruse" and then kind of disclaimed it after.

Fuzzyman's early play didn't bother me. His Mizzyvote in 104 dings slightly because the reason is simply bad; I don't think we ever got a response from him about that, unless I'm missing it.

q21, Tisp, ped meh. I'm not wild about q21's reason for voting Mizzy either (would also be interested in seeing an example of that btw), although his comments in his 8th post about Ether and in his 9th post to Fuzzyman makes me feel slightly better about his alignment. I didn't pick up much on Tisp either way. Ped seems a little passive, but not much I can put my finger on. Ped, can you clarify your top suspects?

Pretty scummy cast so far. Simpor looks the worst to me probably followed by corporate, crywolf and weaker suspicion of Fuzzyman, in that order. Then I have Mizzy and Ped. Mizzy was originally higher but I keep thinking I'm perhaps just leary of things that are largely her playstyle. Q21 and Tisp are pretty much neutral, and GC and Ether seem like town.