In post 99, Rautherdir wrote:
Well. Guess it depends on how any cops or similar we have work. If it's just non-invocation or invocation then we can't check it at all.
i’m assuming there’s something that can differentiate.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
If that claim is true actually that does make them town I'd say, that doesn't sound like a role that scum would have. Though... any public attempt to clear them would likely get them night killed, and action economy of two nights to confirm them as town is a bit suspect, as mentioned.
Alt of Theta Alpine
"Night Kills are a form of cult cop"
Pretty much. With a claim like this, I expect corroborating evidence to turn up sooner or later - such as the presence of a cop who can get those reads as results.
In post 103, Rautherdir wrote:Though... any public attempt to clear them would likely get them night killed, and action economy of two nights to confirm them as town is a bit suspect, as mentioned.
It might only take one. Imagine for example if Abnegation was actually Benediction, and got investigated on night one, or any other odd night. Claim instantly blown out of the water.
In post 69, Enchant wrote:
I think it's not more letter eating like "scum not scum" it's more that you assume that one of teams could benefit town which is not assumption commonly made.
I disagree, when I first saw the teams (in the OP) I was thinking it's probably about a coin toss on whether or Benediction can win with town, and it's clear Malediction can't.
Of course this might be incorrect due to bastard element of mod misdirection, but there's a reason I claimed Benediction and not Malediction in my opening post.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that there's a
In post 70, Rautherdir wrote:
I would say that we should definitely act as if they are a threat to town on day 1 when we are without further information. Doesn't stop me from presenting the possibility of it being otherwise, I'm just wondering why you specifically went with green colored role card as a scum claim instead of going red colored role card.
In post 103, Rautherdir wrote:Though... any public attempt to clear them would likely get them night killed, and action economy of two nights to confirm them as town is a bit suspect, as mentioned.
It might only take one. Imagine for example if Abnegation was actually Benediction, and got investigated on night one, or any other odd night. Claim instantly blown out of the water.
Well, yeah. I'm making the assumption that they are what they say they are in saying that. If it turns out to be wrong then of course, that makes things much simpler.
Which does raise a point, probably better for any cops that get results like Benediction/Not Benediction or Malediction/Not Malediction to investigate on the night that is claimed to get the Not Benediction or Not Malediction result
Alt of Theta Alpine
"Night Kills are a form of cult cop"
In post 81, Rautherdir wrote:
But then again I didn't notice the flavour on alignment thing in setup so. If I'd seen that I'd have gone with the assumption that they are indeed scum and waited til day 2 when more information from public night actions is available to present it as a possibility depending on what happened.
I think the whole point of this setup is that there's no "town" and "scum", because the uninformed majority is actually "neutral" in the struggle between good and evil (judging by the fact that we're colored Ike third parties and Benediction is colored like town).
Benediction and Malediction are different non town factions
Yes they are different factions, but they could be technically benign groupscum (like the pirates in abloaf).
however considering that Invocations is not even "good", I don't think that a "good" faction is benign towards us.
In post 57, Rautherdir wrote:I will say my role name sounds much more powerful then the actual ability actually is. I'm actually not sure at all how to use my role to any benefit, though it is role madness so uh... maybe there's some use to even something like what I have?
You're not the only one. And I have seen the most useless roles turning out to be very beneficial in the end.
In post 69, Enchant wrote:I think it's not more letter eating like "scum not scum" it's more that you assume that one of teams could benefit town which is not assumption commonly made.
Given the name Benediction for the green team, this is an understandable assumption though. But I think this is exactly why we were told not to rely on flavor. I have been in games where good and evil did not match with town and scum factions, and this looks like one of them.
I have only ever seen one informed minority that was actually compatible with the town. But the twist was that they
were
still threats to the town, but they did not realize it. I figured it out because I was a serial killer in that game, and my win condition was weird too. We managed to organize a shared victory between town and all third parties, but when one of them found out I was right about us being considered threats, he blew up in a way that got him modkilled.
In post 78, ActionDan wrote:The stretch to entertain the idea they aren't reads to me as a possible play to fake a dumb not-benediction faction tell more than honest concern.
I disagree. If memory serves, this kind of confusion usually comes from an uninformed perspective, therefore Rautherdir probably is town.
By the way - it was not Enchant who associated green with claiming scum in the first place. They were echoing Dragon, who did it first.
Care to link that game btw? Sounds like a really weird game but a fun read.
In post 81, Rautherdir wrote:
But then again I didn't notice the flavour on alignment thing in setup so. If I'd seen that I'd have gone with the assumption that they are indeed scum and waited til day 2 when more information from public night actions is available to present it as a possibility depending on what happened.
I think the whole point of this setup is that there's no "town" and "scum", because the uninformed majority is actually "neutral" in the struggle between good and evil (judging by the fact that we're colored Ike third parties and Benediction is colored like town).
I realized that later, yeah. Invocation is neutral, Malediction is evil, Benediction is good. The question then is... We can likely presume this is a fight between Malediction and Benediction, but then what about Invocation? We can probably assume that Malediction doesn't have the best interests for Invocation, Benediction is perhaps more in the air.
(A situation where this is literally a fight between Malediction and Benediction, and Invocation is literally just the third party with a survivor like win con in the end is amusing to me but I don't think that's the case, I assume there is in fact threats to Invocation based on our win con, we'd literally have already won if there aren't any threats.)
Alt of Theta Alpine
"Night Kills are a form of cult cop"
In post 95, Feysal wrote:
Meanwhile, we have all pretty much ignored Abnegation claiming miller. Not sure what to make of it, except that claiming it right at the start is generally the right play. This is multiball though, and her claim could make either scum team suspect her of belonging to the other, potentially exposing her to nightkills. Leaving this alone for now.
That miller is a town claim. If he claimed a regular miller I would’ve been more skeptical.
So IC + miller claim means two locktowns for me.
Maybe finally I’ll have an easy game for once?
I’d say that Rau or whatever is town too but I guess since this is multiball or something it really technically makes sense for non-benediction
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
Still tempted to claim so that I can get info on how to even use my role effectively. I probably shouldn't so that I can be one of the less critical roles to eat a night kill but. I can just try to be town to eat a night kill instead soooo actually let me just claim.
I am a manifestation of Confirmation. I have the option to target a player each night to check if my action was successful.
I have no idea how this is even useful, and not even sure what the role is even called normally if it is an actual defined role in the wiki. Closest I could find was Visitor, but none of the modifiers function in a way to make it work like that.
Alt of Theta Alpine
"Night Kills are a form of cult cop"
In post 120, Abnegation wrote:
how many evils do we think we’re looking for? 2v2v9? 2v3v8 if one faction is benign scum?
Sounds about right. Maybe 2&7v4 if we have a faction that can win with Invocation.
In the very hypothetical scenario that both Benediction and Malediction aren't antagonistic to Invocation then I'd say probably 3v3v7 but uhhh Invocation's win con would already have been met in that case so I'm gonna say that isn't the situation we are in.
Alt of Theta Alpine
"Night Kills are a form of cult cop"
