Mini 707: Cops and Robbers Mafia (Game Over)

[q21]

...
Scum
↑
q21 - "The point here is that even were those reasons flawless why not give them when you voted? Giving reasons for a vote after the fact seems like a scummy way play" from 88 is a bullshit excuse, and it makes me nervous that I'm almost the only person who feels this way.

...

I have done that myself as scum and seen others do it. It was the first thing in my read that made me take notice of Mizzy and hadn't been mentioned yet. When added to the other points raised by yourself and GC I felt that Mizzy was where my vote should be.

...

and the using real life as a way to dodge questions. hey, it may be a low, shitty tactic. but the objective is to win, and if i was scum i would use every tool at my disposal. im not trying to be unsportsman like or slanderous, but im not going to assume anyones telling the truth about anything, yet.

Yeah, but that's because you're a horrible person. (shrug)

Yes you may have contributed a little bit, but to me, being sick and studying for a very important Bio test takes precedent to this.

Why doesn't this bother you, Corporate? She actually

has

used this as a crutch, while still being active elsewhere on the site; in contrast, most of Mizzy's recent posts are still here on 707.

The double standard pointed out by Ether here is a good catch. *adds corporate to list of possible scum*

[q21]

Sorry about the repeat post...

[Mister L kun]

and the using real life as a way to dodge questions. hey, it may be a low, shitty tactic. but the objective is to win, and if i was scum i would use every tool at my disposal. im not trying to be unsportsman like or slanderous, but im not going to assume anyones telling the truth about anything, yet.

Yeah, but that's because you're a horrible person. (shrug)

Yes you may have contributed a little bit, but to me, being sick and studying for a very important Bio test takes precedent to this.

Why doesn't this bother you, Corporate? She actually

has

used this as a crutch, while still being active elsewhere on the site; in contrast, most of Mizzy's recent posts are still here on 707.

i didnt take it as a big deal when you unvoted. its too early for that to rub me wrong.

youre reading my other games? and im a horrible person?

why does it matter my full mafia experience? i dont have to tell every thought i have. like the fact crywolf does make me uncomfortable since he appears to be lurking. but obviously it didnt make me uncomfortable enough to rush to point that out yet.

Let me get this straight. You're implying that Ether's a hypocrite when she calls you a horrible person because she's read your other games. How does that make

any

sense? She was calling you a horrible person because you're willing to lie about what's going on in your life to gain an advantage. Also, she was reading crywolf's other games. And why is that a bad thing. It's called meta.

She's also not asking what every thought you have is. She's asking about how experienced of a player you are.

[Ether]

vote: crywolf20084

Simpor and Aceagain haven't been posting elsewhere. They need to get into this game or get replaced early while it's more convenient for everyone. All three can both be prodded in a few hours, which is nice.

q21, could you give examples of this tell in action? I am highly skeptical.

and im a horrible person?

Jerk.

why does it matter my full mafia experience?

You've implied that this isn't your first account, and I'd give good odds that the lack of capitalization and apostrophes is a conscious decision made to distinguish you from your main. Long story short, my read on you conflicts between "scummy" and "an illiterate alt belonging to the sort of person who enjoys screwing around on illiterate alts."

(Disclaimer: there are some people I like and respect who have made alts in such a manner. You don't give off the same vibe.

Also, I don't like their alts, either.

)

Knowing who you are would make my life a lot easier.

[corporate]

im not using double standards i have a fos for cry wolf as well, i just havnt brought it up cuz its not a huge deal to me. mizzys isnt either exactly though. and is it wrong for me to think meta is scummy? i think theres no valid scum tells for me here so youre just digging hard to find dirt on me. ill keep my mafia experience to myself. i dont see anything wrong with that. my jobs not to make your life easier, its to make the towns life easier. youre barking up the wrong tree.

[corporate]

im not using double standards i have a fos for cry wolf as well, i just havnt brought it up cuz its not a huge deal to me. mizzys isnt either exactly though. and is it wrong for me to think meta is scummy? i think theres no valid scum tells for me here so youre just digging hard to find dirt on me. ill keep my mafia experience to myself. i dont see anything wrong with that. my jobs not to make your life easier, its to make the towns life easier.

youre barking up the wrong tree.

[Ether]

I could get into an argument about how you're backtracking; having an FoS on every player in the game says nothing whatsoever; meta curiosity is among the least scummy things in the game; helping me produce a read on you

does

help the town. But I'm in a lazy nihilistic mood and doubt that this would change my read on you, inspire you to get your shit together or alert the rest of the players to information that isn't completely transparent. So yeah.

Mod:

please prod Aceagain and Crywolf. Simpor's also eligible for a prod, but he's viewing the thread, so hopefully he won't be eligible by the time you get here.

[Simpor]

Sorry for not posting, busy week and busy weekend.

Reading through the game I have noticed some things, starting with Mizzy and Ether:

Mizzy:

Major FoS: Green Crayons for asking questions that weren't his responsibility to ask and in doing so indirectly protecting Fuzz, giving Fuzz easy-outs by arguing my attacks on him for him, manipulating what I said, and in the span of 3 sentences, cramming in some of the scummiest play I've seen in ages.

Any more BS from you and I'll be moving my vote.

Threats, don't want to have other people ask questions?
Also when canyon argues against her post, mizzy gets a lot to do at work.. But finds time to post 4-5 posts to other questions. And have continued posting.

Ether:
After voting Mizzy and having some pressure on her, he turns and defends Mizzy:

Dislike q21's vote, regardless of Mizzy's alignment.

Posts a scumlist of three players (not including Mizzy) and then the next post want to have answers from her.

No. I'm not thrilled with Mizzy, but I completely believe that her job is serious business. And she still manages to be more active than half the game. I think the focus should move to someone else for today.

More Mizzy defence.

You also states that your unvote of Mizzy was a mistake, implying that your vote belongs there (at least from my understanding). But Mizzy is not high up on your scumlist.. And if you don't think that Mizzy is scum, then your unvote should be correct?

[Simpor]

Aceagain:
Well just as me, hasn't been posting. Nothing to comment.

corporate:
Has Ehter and Mizzy on his scumlist and thinks that GC is Town. Other then that there is no information from him.

[corporate]

vote ether

[Green Crayons]

You haven't really proved that my logic is crap, just that you don't agree with it, but my real reasons (note the plural) for thinking Fuzz is scum are quite valid.

I've noted the plural, and also noted that all except one relies on bad "reasoning." That said, if you want to leave your original assertions as self-explanatory against my criticisms, far be it from me to say otherwise.

I hate the majority of scumtells because they are often used as excuses to pull bad plays. Scum can cry "scumtell!" just as much as town can and quite frankly, scumtells can point to town just as much as they point to scum. Better to use cold, hard evidence than to just shout "scumtell!" and expect me to agree.

Now, see, this is a great rhetorical sentence to throw out in a Mafia Discussion thread, but this is an actual game. With actual examples and "cold, hard evidence." We're not talking about theory, we're talking about application. I didn't just shout "scumtell!" as you're attempting to rewrite the thread. I pointed out action I found suspicious in and of itself, and then inquired if anyone else noted a parallel to a scumtell. Whether or not the parallel exists (though it does, in my opinion), the action was scummy. The scumtell parallel just sealed the deal for me in marking it up as a scummy action.

I hope this helps, let me know if I missed anything else.

The abundant hypocrisy and frightening rhetoric spewed forth in post 47 as noted in the last half of my post 49.

i dont have to tell every thought i have. like the fact crywolf does make me uncomfortable since he appears to be lurking. but obviously it didnt make me uncomfortable enough to rush to point that out yet.

This rubs me the wrong way. And you're right: no, you don't

have

to tell the town all your thoughts, but sharing your thoughts with the town enables us to use our best and most reliable tool in catching scum: ourselves in open discussion. So, if you're a towns person, I don't know why - outside a highly selective few scenarios - you would want to hold back if you have suspicions against another player. Especially on day one. The last half of the quote I pulled is a horrible basis of reasoning: it didn't bother you that crywolf is apparently actively doing the thing you're accusing/admonishing Mizzy of/for doing, but with no indication that she's actually doing it you're all about getting your panties in a twist that Mizzy might be lying about external circumstances.
(Side note, since I'm writing these points as I read through the thread: post 129 doesn't explain this bad logic, it just sort of reiterates it. Still not buying it.)
(Second side note: in post 129 corporate says, "im not using double standards i have a fos for cry wolf as well" I did a quick skim of the thread and didn't see where this FOS against crywolf was. Did I just miss it or is this a blatant lie?)

Also when canyon argues against her post...

Crayons. Not canyons.

Ether:
After voting Mizzy and having some pressure on her, he turns and defends Mizzy

Ether's a lady.

vote ether

Care to throw some reasons around with that vote?

[Fuzzyman]

Yeah, I don't like Corp's vote, either. Attach some substance, please.

[crywolf20084]

Hang on post's comming.

[Simpor]

Bah I always miss the gender pics... well well..
And Crayons you are here by GC in my posts!

Continuing with my check of the players..

crywolf20084:
The first seven posts by her (I checked the gender this time! ) is no content posts but the last one is interesting

You are no better than me, unless you are one of two roles. Mason, you have someone who is knowning on your side. Or Scum, then you know who you should jump onto.
There are some other things that you maybe a tracker/watcher/cop or some other information gathering role and you know something that I don't at this point of time.

Do you believe that Ether has a power role? And by the way, Ether did ask you who you suspected in post 65 and we are now up in 135. Do you have any suspicions now?

Fuzzyman:
The ender of the random vote stage. He has Corporate and Mizzy high up in his scumlist and have voted Mizzy for not responding to GC's post.

Green Crayons:
Likes large posts, going after Mizzy alot. Mizzy on the scumlist. And maybe Corporate, if I'm not reading it wrong?

Mister Lolipedo-kun:
Contributing a lot. Belives q21 to be the most scummy.

Tisp:
Well four posts.. Don't have any suspects, other then q21 vote on Mizzy.

[Simpor]

Going through all the players this is my scumlist so far, rated 1-10. Where 10 is scum. Above 5 and I have a scum feeling, below a town feeling.

Green Crayons 2
seems town for me

Mister Lolipedo-kun 3
seems town for me

q21 4
Nothing special, just a feeling

Fuzzyman 4
Nothing special, just a feeling

crywolf20084 4
Nothing special, just a feeling

Tisp 5
Too few post to analyze

Aceagain 5
Too few post to analyze

corporate 6
Vote without a reason is something I don't like. And then you're talk about fos on crywolf even though you haven't written a single fos, just

i could put a FoS at almost everybody

Ether 7
Mostly for the connections to Mizzy. The vote, unvote of Mizzy. 6 hours before your vote on crywolf she was not even on you're scumlist (even though you were asked to rank Corporate, q21, fuzzy, GC, Tisp and Mizzy, I would have stated who I thought was the most scummy one) and then the vote comes. I find that strange and also more strange if you consider that crywolf didn't post anything between your both posts.

Mizzy 7
As I wrote earlier I find it scummy not answer GC's posts claiming to not have time, even though she makes several other posts..

[charter]

Aceagain will be prodded.

[crywolf20084]

Okay so the first thing that I thought was off was corporate’s vote. I’d like some reasoning before I have much to say to that.

Secondly, I do not like how Ether’s practically running the game. Whatever she asks people jump and do it.

Simpor points out a good point here:

Ether:
After voting Mizzy and having some pressure on her, he turns and defends Mizzy:

Dislike q21's vote, regardless of Mizzy's alignment.

Posts a scumlist of three players (not including Mizzy) and then the next post want to have answers from her.

No. I'm not thrilled with Mizzy, but I completely believe that her job is serious business. And she still manages to be more active than half the game. I think the focus should move to someone else for today.

More Mizzy defence.

You also states that your unvote of Mizzy was a mistake, implying that your vote belongs there (at least from my understanding). But Mizzy is not high up on your scumlist.. And if you don't think that Mizzy is scum, then your unvote should be correct?

I agree with Simpor here and I don’t like what what Ether had to say.

(Second side note: in post 129 corporate says, "im not using double standards i have a fos for cry wolf as well" I did a quick skim of the thread and didn't see where this FOS against crywolf was. Did I just miss it or is this a blatant lie?)

ok well, im pretty undecided. theres a lot of stretching going on and votes with lack of substance. also due to the lack of participation from half the game im going to hold my vote untill we get to know each other a little better.

i could put a FoS at almost everybody

. but the top two on my radar are mizzy and ether, but that may be because they are two of the most vocal and that leaves more chances to misinterpet. im also skeptical about mizzys attention to limited participation, it just feels like a possible defensive move. ether, immediatley buying it and defending her is questionable.

im least suspicious of GC. GC makes sense to me.

There’s your answer GC. I don’t necessarily believe that it was a true FOS.

vote: crywolf20084

Why?

This is prior to you asking for a prod for me.

crywolf20084:
The first seven posts by her (I checked the gender this time! ) is no content posts but the last one is interesting

You are no better than me, unless you are one of two roles. Mason, you have someone who is knowning on your side. Or Scum, then you know who you should jump onto.
There are some other things that you maybe a tracker/watcher/cop or some other information gathering role and you know something that I don't at this point of time.

Do you believe that Ether has a power role? And by the way, Ether did ask you who you suspected in post 65 and we are now up in 135. Do you have any suspicions now?

I think Ether’s trying to get complete control of the town, and I’m not about ready to just hand it over, which makes me pretty suspicious.

My rating of everyone: (1-10 10 being scummy, 5 is neutral, meaning I could go either way or there is not much of a read.)
Tisp--5
Fuzzyman—4 Hasn’t done anything yet to make me worry other than the reaching with the names.
Mister Lolipedo-kun—5
q21—4 He’s made sense thus far
Aceagain—6 I’d like to hear from you some more.
Mizzy—6 I would like her to comment a bit more, and I don’t like her ruse about her LA-ness.
Green Crayons –3 He’s struck me the as the most town with the most sense.
corporate—6.5 Some odd moves, like to hear from him again.
Simpor –4.5 He’s pointed out something that I would like answered as well.
Ether—7 Definitely is one that’s been in my radar. I don’t like how she’s been saying “Oh lookie! I’m town. Sooo Town” and the attack then defense of Mizzy, then my vote with nothing said about me in the same post.

So I’m going to do this:

Vote: Ether

[charter]

Aceagain will be prodded.

Aceagain responded and said he will not have enough time right now, and requested replacement. Getting on that now.

[q21]

I don't really see the cause for the suspicion on ether. Yes, she's active and appears to be trying to run the game, that doesn't make her scum. Town have as much reason to be proactive as scum do.
As for defending Mizzy: I see one post of hers that can be construed that way. Personally, I am more incline to view it as defending the Mizzy's personal integrity as opposed to defending her in this game.

As for corporate, his vote bugs me too. He hadn't deemed any of the accusations he'd levelled at ether worthy of a vote and post 129 is basically a repeat of things he had already said. The only thing that really changed between when he was and wasn't voting ether is her crywolf vote. Add that to crywolf's active lurking and corporate's application of double standards to him and they are up with Mizzy on my scumlist as possible buddies.

[charter]

Patrick replaces Aceagain. He said he won't be able to post much the next day or two.

[Patrick]

Hi everyone. Will read up and post within 48 hours.

[Ether]

♥

Crywolf, what don't

you

like from Corporate? Simpor, what do you like from Ped? And why the hell do you care if Crywolf thinks I have a power role?

Secondly, I do not like how Ether’s practically running the game. Whatever she asks people jump and do it.

So far, I think Patrick's the only person who did something because I asked him. Most of the other efforts to defend my honor is just stuff people felt like doing, which I sometimes appreciate and sometimes don't really care about. I don't think you can name a single spot where I actually called another player to my aid, aside from just to answer direct questions.

Actually, I'm seeing a more and more strongly defined split centered around me, and I find it a bit unnerving. By voting me, you're just helping to foster this notion that I'm the most important thing in the game. ._.

vote: crywolf20084

Why?

This is prior to you asking for a prod for me.

Failure to answer my questions; OMGUS to avoid actual content during our enchange; lurking whilst posting elsewhere on the site. I couldn't call the mod in at that time, since you hadn't been gone for 72 hours yet.

You also states that your unvote of Mizzy was a mistake, implying that your vote belongs there (at least from my understanding). But Mizzy is not high up on your scumlist.. And if you don't think that Mizzy is scum, then your unvote should be correct?

Mizzy - bored now.

At the time, the unvote was an accident. By the time Charter had me blank on the next votecount and I realized my mistake when, I didn't care enough to replace it. I suspected that my vote would be pulling a lurkerhunt in the near future anyway.

I don't think I'll be moving back to Mizzy after she's out of work; the Mizhate is too universal for my tastes. I find myself losing interest in q21 as well, even though he didn't, like, answer my question. It's probably just a subconscious reaction to him backing me up, but then again, I'm starting to get nervous with Ped.

48-hour alert: Tisp

[Tisp]

I'm here. Will post tommorow. Weekend was very busy.

[Mizzy]

crywolf20084:

If you think my work schedule is a ruse, how about you come work these 70-hour weeks for me?

It's pretty easy to call something a ruse without checking into it, isn't it? If anyone had bothered to look, I have posted very little in the other two games I am in, too,

for the same reason

.

[crywolf20084]

crywolf20084:

If you think my work schedule is a ruse, how about you come work these 70-hour weeks for me?

It's pretty easy to call something a ruse without checking into it, isn't it? If anyone had bothered to look, I have posted very little in the other two games I am in, too,

for the same reason

.

I didn't vote you for it. If I was really bothered about it, I would've voted, or I would request that you get a replacement.

I understand the whole 70 hours a week. That's how much I should be doing with school and work combined. I absolutely hated last week with three exams and I have one more week like that coming up on the week of the fifteenth. It sucks I know.