There were no votes on Andante - we had more or less forgotten about her atp?
I began interrogated Klick on his Gimli townread on this page and I felt it was like vapor because his answers felt evasive
In post 533, Klick wrote:
I totally buy into Gimli's read and perception of the game being a town one
I'm not going to say Gimli can't be faking his current take on the game, but if he is he's putting a lot of effort into making it look genuine AND he's sending the gamestate in a direction that I already think is largely accurate and so I'm very happy to give him a pass and a sheep vote for the moment
Says really nothing about Gimli and even less about why he thinks I'm mafia and willing to vote me and put me at E-2.
When I push him on his Gimli townread his reasoning for it feels like scum answering and just kind of making things up instead of a town thought process behind why this person is town.
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In post 544, Klick wrote:
Gimli fwiw out of Ari/Andante I have a slightly stronger opinion on Andante being a potential wolf
I'm fine with being on Aristeia regardless but if you're feeling similarly about both of them then Andante's my personal preference
This shift to Andante came right after I switched from pushing Gimli to pushing him and it's very ???? how he went from ok to sheep Gimli and putting third vote on me to deciding well actually let's go back to Andante? Like look at his iso, does that progression even make sense for town!him to have?
In post 1193, Aristeia wrote:
Like why couldn't Klick & Andante have talked about the wagon on Andante and decided to do some theatre to make Klick look good in case it actually went through?
I don't think wolf!Klick thinks that wagon goes through, it's not really based on anything
if Wolf!Klick thinks the wagon wouldn't go through that's even more incentive to theater because there'd be literally no consequences for it.
In post 1201, Aristeia wrote:
There were no votes on Andante - we had more or less forgotten about her atp?
Doesn't that make it all the more better for Gimli to come in, remind everyone that Andante exists, and push it? If I'm Gimli I would totally go for that play.
In post 1201, Aristeia wrote:
This shift to Andante came right after I switched from pushing Gimli to pushing him and it's very ???? how he went from ok to sheep Gimli and putting third vote on me to deciding well actually let's go back to Andante? Like look at his iso, does that progression even make sense for town!him to have?
Didn't he say he was typing that post as you voted him and that he didn't see it? Are you saying that's a convenient excuse he made up?
That impulsivity I feel like can come from town?
In post 103, Klick wrote:
Aureal's way of playing thus far lines up really well with her stated way of approaching the game in a way that runs counter to the reasons she's getting early suspicion
She's an easy target
And that doesn't bother you, that they more or less open with: "this is how I always play, please don't vote me for it". Instead of just.. playing?
It's an easy target because it's the right target. Going for Andante we are going to do at some point, I don't think they get through an early game often. She's easy. You are the pot calling the kettle black here.
Not really I'd expect that kind of response from town more often than scum
This is a difference in philosophy where you seem to look for how you think town *should* play when they are doing what they should be doing
Whereas I look for how I think town *will* play without any particular expectation of quality
I remember this from playing with you previously
The only game I remember playing with Andante was a game that just ended and she was the most widely townread scum player
I didn't realise she normally doesn't get through early game?
@klick: are you a bus heavy scum player? maybe the game we played isn't a good comparison cause it was white flag. do you think you'd play d1 like that with scumdante?
I avoid bussing unless I'm justified in doing otherwise. I think Mafia is a very snowbally game and the numbers advantage is a lot more important for both teams than people like to acknowledge. I also don't have nearly enough confidence in keeping up my own scum game long-term to justify bussing in most situations.
The positionally-based reason why I'm not scum with Andante is because the shade I was throwing at her was legitimately related to why she was scum. The early suspicion of Andante might not have had the weight of an elimination earlier on, but, uh... it was accurate.
In post 1193, Aristeia wrote:
Like why couldn't Klick & Andante have talked about the wagon on Andante and decided to do some theatre to make Klick look good in case it actually went through?
I don't think wolf!Klick thinks that wagon goes through, it's not really based on anything
if Wolf!Klick thinks the wagon wouldn't go through that's even more incentive to theater because there'd be literally no consequences for it.
okay, ig?
Still don't think that's how wolves go about theater. I feel like for that to happen Klick would have had to deceive their wolf partner successfully in the heat of the moment which idunno that just doesn't happen
In post 1158, Gimli wrote:
ari what's your POE now? you're scumreading klick, but who are you townreading, what's your solve looking like?
I feel like alisae + you both really believe what you're both saying so it makes me kind of worried that it's in aureal/klick - of those two Klick feels like the more prepared/makes sensy player. This is my first game with Aureal so I don't really have a lot of thoughts there tbh.
I think both Alisae AND Gimli are capable of producing the WIM required to have the argument they're having as scum here for exactly this reason
I think what's stressing me the most about klick is how his aureal read is untouched throughout the game. I think the way aureal has played requires reassessing. she didn't vote on d2, she openvoted me on d3 and is just letting things happen here.
I did reassess and came to the same conclusion.
The reasons people think Aureal could be sus are fairly shallow and not accurate.
In post 1163, Aristeia wrote:
the read is made on an interaction [Mykonian vs Aureal] which occurred during D1 when Myko was pushing Aureal and Aureal was rebutting Myko.
If Klick actually read that interaction and thought Aureal is >99% town because of her comfort rebutting Mykonian - why doesn't he make that read and defend Aureal when she is actually at risk of being eliminated during D1 ?
1. I didn't and don't think Aureal was legitimately at risk of elimination on D1
2. I can read things at different times and have thoughts of differing strength regarding them. That's why people reread in the first place, to see if they come to any different conclusions than they did originally.
In post 1210, Aristeia wrote:
I guess I struggle to reach the same conviction you purport to have in your reads so it feels like TMI to me.
I think I would only call said read TMI if it came super early and there was actually no reason for him to have because townies normally do not get reads that quickly but I think his Aureal read is like fine
ok but how does voting Alisae resolve the issue? If you are worried that Alisae wants a quicklim to happen shouldn't you be trying to get alisae to unvote or one of the other people on the wagon to unvote?
In post 1210, Aristeia wrote:
I guess I struggle to reach the same conviction you purport to have in your reads so it feels like TMI to me.
I think I would only call said read TMI if it came super early and there was actually no reason for him to have because townies normally do not get reads that quickly but I think his Aureal read is like fine
saying someone is >99% town is a very high conviction read imo
In post 1204, Alisae wrote:
Klick is a really flexible player so I imagine he'll vote any of his suspects D1
This
Ari you've already asked me about this and I gave you an answer and you just... didn't like it?
I'm telling you things about how I always play and this is verifiable and it feels like you keep going 'but it's not believable!' when it's literally how almost every town game I've had in the last year at least has gone
I feel like you're trying to see me from a scum perspective to the detriment of vonsidering a town perspective
In post 1217, Aristeia wrote:
ok but how does voting Alisae resolve the issue? If you are worried that Alisae wants a quicklim to happen shouldn't you be trying to get alisae to unvote or one of the other people on the wagon to unvote?
I don't care about directly influencing others' actions. Like ever. That's not something I'm interested in doing as town in almost all circumstances unless there's a very very clear reason for it, like deciding-the-game kind of reason.
Aureal wagon actually going through D1 wouldn't have been the end of the world.
