In post 8170, Enchant wrote:PPF point actually valid: They can't be scum with Ydrasse.
I still think that was whiteknight thou.
I agree, I just thought if I left that out of my questions, that would be misleading framing on my part. You can see though that's the only point PPF chose to address, they didn't even address Porkens or Rat in their response to me.
I did. Math wanted to wait but I’m scum for not anticipating Enchant would hammer? And I. would have voted RR, so that even makes less sense. Did you forget I was on him on d1 when he was at e-1?
But don’t let the evidence interfere with your shitpush.
It’s the end of the world as you know it and we feel fine.
If you’re seriously going to use VCAs against me than don’t be selective, bring up ALL of them including the ones that exonerate me but you won’t because God forbid, you look at any facts contradicting it right?
It’s the end of the world as you know it and we feel fine.
Scarf is also town. So you tried to keep one town from being limmed by getting another town mislimmed.
That still doesn't answer why in the face of Rat being confirmed scum that you didn't engage or vote there. So, why? I think this is now the 3rd time I asked.
In post 8168, Past Present Future wrote:I don’t know why any of the flips which point against me being scum are now being used to push me? If you both are town, you’re ignoring blatant occam’s razor. I can’t respond to anything devoid of logic. Logic and evidence points against me but for reasons I can’t fathom a lunar flip of a slot who clearly knew nothing about a bs claim her buddy made somehow implicates me. I’m starting to have doubts on Dangle now because I don’t recall their reasoning being this bad as town before.
Meanwhile, the only reason you are potentially town to me is because I expect this kind of reasoning from you as either alignment
I'll say it once again: Rubella's behaviour is most clearly explained by him having a guilty result on you with the role that he did have.
With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-03 15:13:12)
After some discussion with DkKoba, deadline will be frozen when the deadline is 1 day or lower and not 2 days. Deadline will freeze when it hits 24 hours remaining.
Oh lookie here, I was on RR at E-1 but it’s scum indicative that I wasn’t on him when it was obvious they were going down. I said I thought they were scum and was planning to vote them, so what even is your argument with that?
It’s the end of the world as you know it and we feel fine.
In post 8179, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:Rubella's behaviour is most clearly explained by him having a guilty result on you with the role that he did have.
And before you try to shut this down rhetorically
Recognise that, regardless of how YOU feel about this,
I actually believe this
Don't 'that's ridiculous' me, don't 'are you just scum for pushing this' me, ACTUALLY engage with this without doing any of that to try and discredit it and replace it with your own worldview. Use EVIDENCE to engage with thoughts on this point.
In post 8177, T-Bone wrote:Scarf is also town. So you tried to keep one town from being limmed by getting another town mislimmed.
That still doesn't answer why in the face of Rat being confirmed scum that you didn't engage or vote there. So, why? I think this is now the 3rd time I asked.
I thought Scarf was scum and hard tr Mastina.
I said I thought they probably were scum and said I planned to vote there. At the very least, don’t be lazy and don’t ignore that. Why does my not voting them even significant? You’re actually making it sound like I was opposing their wagon when I actively encouraged it. Do you not think I would have bussed them for towncred if I were buddies with RR? What you’re arguing here makes no sense. According to you my supposed buddy’s going down but I’m scum for saying I think he’s probably scum and planning to vote there but it going over before I had a chance to vote? Why? Why don’t I vote my doomed buddy for towncred then? You argument makes 0 sense.
It’s the end of the world as you know it and we feel fine.
In post 8168, Past Present Future wrote:I don’t know why any of the flips which point against me being scum are now being used to push me? If you both are town, you’re ignoring blatant occam’s razor. I can’t respond to anything devoid of logic. Logic and evidence points against me but for reasons I can’t fathom a lunar flip of a slot who clearly knew nothing about a bs claim her buddy made somehow implicates me. I’m starting to have doubts on Dangle now because I don’t recall their reasoning being this bad as town before.
Meanwhile, the only reason you are potentially town to me is because I expect this kind of reasoning from you as either alignment
I'll say it once again: Rubella's behaviour is most clearly explained by him having a guilty result on you with the role that he did have.
Right and his buddy Ydrasse knew absolutely nothing about that because?
It’s the end of the world as you know it and we feel fine.
In post 8179, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:Rubella's behaviour is most clearly explained by him having a guilty result on you with the role that he did have.
And before you try to shut this down rhetorically
Recognise that, regardless of how YOU feel about this,
I actually believe this
Don't 'that's ridiculous' me, don't 'are you just scum for pushing this' me, ACTUALLY engage with this without doing any of that to try and discredit it and replace it with your own worldview. Use EVIDENCE to engage with thoughts on this point.
I have and you weren’t ignoring that evidence yesterday well it still exists and how you got Ydrasse flip somehow makes MMR bs claim more believable makes sense in what world?
It’s the end of the world as you know it and we feel fine.
You were willing to vote Rat on Day 1 when we didn't have confirmation they were scum, but unwilling later when we did have confirmation that they were scum. It is true, when momentum shifted towards Rat later in the day as a counterwagon to Mastina you jumped on. I will grab the relevant VCs because I think it still supports my theory. I'll start with the one you mentioned.
With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-03 15:13:12)
After some discussion with DkKoba, deadline will be frozen when the deadline is 1 day or lower and not 2 days. Deadline will freeze when it hits 24 hours remaining.
It is true PPF was voting correctly here. I think there are mitigating circumstances that makes this VC less important than the day we actually limmed Rat. First, this is not the first Mastina counterwagon PPF was on. If PPF!scum, they have whiteknighted Mastina and have no choice but to vote her every counterwagon. Which she does. Second, PPF is not driving this wagon.
This is the vote PPF makes. Now I searched their ISO before and after this vote. You can look but at no point does PPF say they are suspicious of Rat, or trying to pushing Rat as scum. I used the search terms 'Radical Rat' and 'RR' to see, and the only time 'Radical Rat' shows up is in quotations. So I think its safe to say PPF was doing this to counterwagon their Mastina townread, rather than because they don't know Rat's alignment. On Day 1, with no one pressuring the other Solar slot, it's not unreasonable to think that PPF!scum would vote Rat to keep their reads consistent. Is Nancy the type of player to townread their scumbuddies? I don't know but I'd guess based on her flippant responses the answer to that is no.
Just to not take the VCs further out of context, I am going to quote them in chronological order starting from VC 1.0.13. I'm choosing to do so because that is the first time a counterwagon to Mastina appeared. I'm defining a counterwagon as 3 or more votes. My thesis is this to explain scum!PPF's day 1 behavior. They were so invested in the Mastina townread, that they had no choice but to vote every counterwagon to Mastina. This mostly applies to the Nancy head I think ftr.
Radical Rat (4) Mastina, Yume, furtiveglance, Ydrasse
Scarfmanship (2) Past Present Future, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
professotic (1) MMR,
Not Voting (3) Frozen Angel, Enchant, Bunnyonce
With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-03 15:13:12)*
Deadline will freeze when it hits 24 hours remaining.
In 1.0.16 they unvote, until 1.0.18 when they are on Rat. Curiously in the immediate next VC 1.0.19 they are back on Scarf. This undermines PPF's point that they were willing to lim Rat. Why not keep Rat as the most viable counterwagon to Mastina?
Not Voting (5) Frozen Angel, Bunnyonce, Ydrasse, Radical Rat, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow,
With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: 1 Day*
Deadline is frozen for replacements.
PPF stays on Scarf from 1.0.19 to 1.0.21, until we end the day compromising on Bunnyonce.
Past Present Future wrote:If you’re seriously going to use VCAs against me than don’t be selective, bring up ALL of them including the ones that exonerate me but you won’t because God forbid, you look at any facts contradicting it right?
I DID the work to make my assertion PPF. I looked at the facts of the Day 1 VCs to draw my conclusions. I did not cheery pick the VCs nor did I claim you did something you did not do, or claim you did not do something you did.
While I think it is reasonable for town!PPF to think I'm scum, to claim I didn't do the work to make my assertions about your voting history is not reasonable. If you're town then I've still done the work I've just come to the wrong conclusion. But you're discrediting me instead of helping me to understand why I've come to the wrong conclusion, sarcastically calling me sherlock and going 'but we all voted wrong'. When I asked why you didn't vote either Solar player correctly, including when one of them (Rat) was confirmed scum, you don't address the point.
If you're town, help me understand why you didn't answer the question in a direct and honest manner? What does town!PPF have to gain from that?
In post 8179, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:Rubella's behaviour is most clearly explained by him having a guilty result on you with the role that he did have.
And before you try to shut this down rhetorically
Recognise that, regardless of how YOU feel about this,
I actually believe this
Don't 'that's ridiculous' me, don't 'are you just scum for pushing this' me, ACTUALLY engage with this without doing any of that to try and discredit it and replace it with your own worldview. Use EVIDENCE to engage with thoughts on this point.
I have and you weren’t ignoring that evidence yesterday well it still exists and how you got Ydrasse flip somehow makes MMR bs claim more believable makes sense in what world?
Like I seriously want to understand how an MMR buddy who knew nothing whatsoever of their made up claim when they were trying to persuade Math to vig Mastina over us because it’s obviously real. Because that makes total sense right?
They wanted Mastina to die over us and Ydrasse knew absolutely nothing about it, so how does that make their claim believable?
It’s the end of the world as you know it and we feel fine.
Anyway I think the game's evidence points to PPF as Solar and Prof to Lunar. I'm gonna step away for now to not flood the thread with a back and forth with PPF. I've laid out what I think. I know that there's a fight brewing with Prof on the horizon.
Just one point of clarification. For those of you who think this, we think it's more important to flip Lunar or Solar today why?
In post 8191, T-Bone wrote:You were willing to vote Rat on Day 1 when we didn't have confirmation they were scum, but unwilling later when we did have confirmation that they were scum. It is true, when momentum shifted towards Rat later in the day as a counterwagon to Mastina you jumped on. I will grab the relevant VCs because I think it still supports my theory. I'll start with the one you mentioned.
With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-03 15:13:12)
After some discussion with DkKoba, deadline will be frozen when the deadline is 1 day or lower and not 2 days. Deadline will freeze when it hits 24 hours remaining.
It is true PPF was voting correctly here. I think there are mitigating circumstances that makes this VC less important than the day we actually limmed Rat. First, this is not the first Mastina counterwagon PPF was on. If PPF!scum, they have whiteknighted Mastina and have no choice but to vote her every counterwagon. Which she does. Second, PPF is not driving this wagon.
This is the vote PPF makes. Now I searched their ISO before and after this vote. You can look but at no point does PPF say they are suspicious of Rat, or trying to pushing Rat as scum. I used the search terms 'Radical Rat' and 'RR' to see, and the only time 'Radical Rat' shows up is in quotations. So I think its safe to say PPF was doing this to counterwagon their Mastina townread, rather than because they don't know Rat's alignment. On Day 1, with no one pressuring the other Solar slot, it's not unreasonable to think that PPF!scum would vote Rat to keep their reads consistent. Is Nancy the type of player to townread their scumbuddies? I don't know but I'd guess based on her flippant responses the answer to that is no.
Just to not take the VCs further out of context, I am going to quote them in chronological order starting from VC 1.0.13. I'm choosing to do so because that is the first time a counterwagon to Mastina appeared. I'm defining a counterwagon as 3 or more votes. My thesis is this to explain scum!PPF's day 1 behavior. They were so invested in the Mastina townread, that they had no choice but to vote every counterwagon to Mastina. This mostly applies to the Nancy head I think ftr.
Radical Rat (4) Mastina, Yume, furtiveglance, Ydrasse
Scarfmanship (2) Past Present Future, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
professotic (1) MMR,
Not Voting (3) Frozen Angel, Enchant, Bunnyonce
With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-03 15:13:12)*
Deadline will freeze when it hits 24 hours remaining.
In 1.0.16 they unvote, until 1.0.18 when they are on Rat. Curiously in the immediate next VC 1.0.19 they are back on Scarf. This undermines PPF's point that they were willing to lim Rat. Why not keep Rat as the most viable counterwagon to Mastina?
Not Voting (5) Frozen Angel, Bunnyonce, Ydrasse, Radical Rat, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow,
With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: 1 Day*
Deadline is frozen for replacements.
PPF stays on Scarf from 1.0.19 to 1.0.21, until we end the day compromising on Bunnyonce.
Past Present Future wrote:If you’re seriously going to use VCAs against me than don’t be selective, bring up ALL of them including the ones that exonerate me but you won’t because God forbid, you look at any facts contradicting it right?
I DID the work to make my assertion PPF. I looked at the facts of the Day 1 VCs to draw my conclusions. I did not cheery pick the VCs nor did I claim you did something you did not do, or claim you did not do something you did.
While I think it is reasonable for town!PPF to think I'm scum, to claim I didn't do the work to make my assertions about your voting history is not reasonable. If you're town then I've still done the work I've just come to the wrong conclusion. But you're discrediting me instead of helping me to understand why I've come to the wrong conclusion, sarcastically calling me sherlock and going 'but we all voted wrong'. When I asked why you didn't vote either Solar player correctly, including when one of them (Rat) was confirmed scum, you don't address the point.
If you're town, help me understand why you didn't answer the question in a direct and honest manner? What does town!PPF have to gain from that?
Exactly! So I put them at risk of getting limmed when it made no sense to do so if I’m a buddy but when I could have voted them for towncred I didn’t, so that makes me scum why again?
It’s the end of the world as you know it and we feel fine.
Right, but that's only a part of my read holistically.
For point of reference Nancy, and this will help you either after I flip town or in future games we are town together. I ask you why you did something because I want to know, and to help me form my reads.
I don't ask you why you do something so I can make a gotcha post in response.
Sort of OOC:
Is it accurate that you're anticipating me going 'gotcha' and that's why you are quicker to deflect rather than answer directly? Think about this post game, I think it'll help us both understand one another in future games. I really do enjoy playing with you and hope that my relentless questioning doesn't give you a different impression.
In post 8195, Past Present Future wrote:Exactly! So I put them at risk of getting limmed when it made no sense to do so if I’m a buddy but when I could have voted them for towncred I didn’t, so that makes me scum why again?
For what it's worth when I looked back at the VCs I did notice you had voted Rat or Day 1 before I posted about your voting history. So I'm not dismissing your point. You are telling the truth about your actions and I'm not disputing that.
With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-01 13:00:17)
@mod
The VC is wrong.
We're voting prof, not mastina.
-Rubella
Fixing
I guess it’s possible I could be making the same mistake with Prof as I did with Ydrasse but T-Bone ignoring all the evidence pointing against me being Solar is majorly pinging me. At least Dangle isn’t completely ignoring the evidence debunking it.
It’s the end of the world as you know it and we feel fine.
In post 8196, T-Bone wrote:Right, but that's only a part of my read holistically.
For point of reference Nancy, and this will help you either after I flip town or in future games we are town together. I ask you why you did something because I want to know, and to help me form my reads.
I don't ask you why you do something so I can make a gotcha post in response.
Sort of OOC:
Is it accurate that you're anticipating me going 'gotcha' and that's why you are quicker to deflect rather than answer directly? Think about this post game, I think it'll help us both understand one another in future games. I really do enjoy playing with you and hope that my relentless questioning doesn't give you a different impression.
I don’t have any issues with playing with you at all and thanks that’s really sweet. <3. I like you very much personlly fwiw.
I guess perhaps I did jump to that conclusion, so I’ll try to answer you more calmly then, Sorry but I just don’t understand why things like Ydra flip and my not being on doomed RR wagon are even being argued? First one points to MMR claim being bs and the second is nia. Had I been on doomed RR wagon but not on d1, I’d understand your argument a lot better.
It’s the end of the world as you know it and we feel fine.
