Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[Enchant]

Well anyway. Updating.

Ded:

12. Maid Cafe/Toogeloo/Porkens. Solar Hypnotist. Eliminated Dawn 2 (D4).

Spoiler: Role

At Noons (Even-Night) can force target to receive one of messages:
"You have been burned!"
"Someone attempted to burn you, but it failed!"
"Your burn has been healed."

Actions:
Noon 1: T-Bone (Someone attempted to burn you, but it failed!)
Noon 2:

1. Radical Rat. Solar Cultist. Eliminated at Dusk 3 (D5)

10. MMR (Hydra of Ircher, RH9, and Roden). Lunar Starmaster. Eliminated at Dawn 1 (D2).

Spoiler: Role

Passively rolecops all targets of factional ability. If target was from Solar Cult, result will be "Vanilla" regardless.

15. Save the Dragons/Ydrasse. Lunar Cultist

13. Korina/Mathblade. Town Novice Dusk Knight. Killed Noon 2 (N4)

Spoiler: Role

Dusk Vig (Odd-Day). Need to kill player of different faction everytime, or they will die. Nothing can prevent this kill.

Actions:
Dusk 2 (d2): unwnd

2. Mastina/Nero Cain/Meuh. Limited Astrologer.

Spoiler: Role

At Noon (Even-Night) target character and receive attunement: Sun or Moon. People with Sun can't be Lunar. People with Moon can't be Solar.
Can't target MathBlade and Dingle.

Actions:
Noon 1 (N2): unwnd. Result: Sun.
Noon 2 (N4): PPF. Result: Sun.

14. Furtiveglance. Vanilla Townie. Eliminated Dusk 2 (D3)

17. radja/unwnd. Vanilla Townie. Killed Dusk 2 (D3) by MathBlade.

9. Bunnyonce (Hydra of Aisa and Greeting). Vanilla Townie. Eliminated at Dusk 1 (D1).

Game:
Dusk > Night > Dawn > Noon

Dusk 1: Bunnyonce eliminated (Vanilla Townie)
Night 1: professotic disappeared
Dawn 1: MMR eliminated (Lunar Starmaster)
Noon 1: No one Died.
Dusk 2: unwnd was shot by Mathblade (Vanilla Townie) and then Furtiveglance was eliminated (Vanilla Townie). professotic returned.
Night 2: No one Died.
Dawn 2: Porkens Eliminated (Solar Hypnotist).
Noon 2: MathBlade Killed (Town Novice Dusk Knight).
Dusk 3: Radical Rat Eliminated (Solar Cultist)
Night 3: No one Died.
Dawn 3: Ydrasse Eliminated (Lunar Cultist)
Noon 3: Meuh Killed (Town Limited Astrologer)
Dusk 4: Going


Alive:
3. professotic (Hydra of Professordrapion and tictac). Disappeared Night 1 (N1) but came back at end of Dusk 2 (D3). 1-Shot Astral Ghost.

Spoiler: Role

At Night can disappear and all actions on him will fail.
While gone inherits 1-shot abilities.

Actions:
Night 1: Used
Dusk 2 (D3): Appeared again

4. Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (Hydra with Klick and Bellaphant). Eluminator. Not Gamestart Solar.

Spoiler: Role

Target will know who targeted them

Actions:
Night 1: T-Bone
Noon 1: Ydrasse
Night 2: Scarfmanship
Noon 2: PPT. Acknowlidged that Meuh targeted them.
Night 3: ? Didn't find sorry.
Dawn 3: Meuh

6. Past Present Future (Hydra of Nancy Drew 39, Titus, and Auro). Can't be Lunar. Dawn Priestess.

Spoiler: Role

Interacts with game phases if they die

7. Yume/Cat Scratch Fever. Guardian

Spoiler: Role

At night can place shield which protects from negative utility and kills. Will know if blocks successfully. Shield lasts for whole 4 phases.
N1 - Meuh
N2 - Meuh
N3 - DDL

8. Enchant. Vanilla Townie

5. Child of Fairies/Scarfmanship/Junkochan/Magician. Vanilla Townie
11. Frozen Angel/Firebringer. Vanilla Townie
16. T-Bone. Vanilla Townie

[T-Bone]

You're the best Enchant

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

But it also doesn't feel like this is the route that three individuals and their scumbuddies would choose to take...

UNVOTE:

I'm going to discuss with Bella. I need to consider how likely it is that MMR is town and also consider how important the utility of flipping MMR to confirm mastina/PPF's alignments is.

So reevaluating this

I still get the impression that RH9 made his claim with basically no input from anyone.
Considering Ydrasse was one partner, this makes some sense.

What I want to determine is whether this suggests anything about the second partner.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Or, when placed in context: does T-Bone let this claim happen?
I believe professotic would.

[Past Present Future]

I really did think Ydrasse was going to flip town. T-Bone why did you unvote MMR?

[Past Present Future]

But it also doesn't feel like this is the route that three individuals and their scumbuddies would choose to take...

UNVOTE:

I'm going to discuss with Bella. I need to consider how likely it is that MMR is town and also consider how important the utility of flipping MMR to confirm mastina/PPF's alignments is.

So reevaluating this

I still get the impression that RH9 made his claim with basically no input from anyone.
Considering Ydrasse was one partner, this makes some sense.

What I want to determine is whether this suggests anything about the second partner.

Yeah another thing proving it’s bullshit pretty much. How would Ydrasse possibly not know anything about it if it had any basis in reality?

[Past Present Future]

Or, when placed in context: does T-Bone let this claim happen?
I believe professotic would.

You’re definitely going to need to explain that one? VCA had a Prof wagon where he was at e-2 I think with MMR on it?

[Past Present Future]

VC 2.0.5



MMR (5) Radical Rat, T-bone , Mastina, Yume, Past Present Future [E-3]

Mastina (3) Unwnd, Furtiveglance, firebringer

Past Present Future (2) Scarfmanship, Mathblade,

furtiveglance (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow,


Not Voting (4) Ydrasse, MMR, Toogeloo, Enchant,

Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-14 21:51:23)
With 15 alive it takes 8 to eliminate.

VC 2.0.6



Past Present Future (4) Scarfmanship, MMR, Toogeloo, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow [E-4]
MMR (4) Radical Rat, Yume, Past Present Future, Mathblade [E-4]

Mastina (3) Unwnd, Furtiveglance, firebringer

Unwnd (1) Mastina

Not Voting (3) Ydrasse, Enchant, T-bone ,

Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-14 21:51:23)
With 15 alive it takes 8 to eliminate.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

But it also doesn't feel like this is the route that three individuals and their scumbuddies would choose to take...

UNVOTE:

I'm going to discuss with Bella. I need to consider how likely it is that MMR is town and also consider how important the utility of flipping MMR to confirm mastina/PPF's alignments is.

So reevaluating this

I still get the impression that RH9 made his claim with basically no input from anyone.
Considering Ydrasse was one partner, this makes some sense.

What I want to determine is whether this suggests anything about the second partner.

Yeah another thing proving it’s bullshit pretty much. How would Ydrasse possibly not know anything about it if it had any basis in reality?

Because Ydrasse was paying zero attention to this game.

Ydrasse being Lunar has given the claim

more

credibility, not less.

[Past Present Future]

But it also doesn't feel like this is the route that three individuals and their scumbuddies would choose to take...

UNVOTE:

I'm going to discuss with Bella. I need to consider how likely it is that MMR is town and also consider how important the utility of flipping MMR to confirm mastina/PPF's alignments is.

So reevaluating this

I still get the impression that RH9 made his claim with basically no input from anyone.
Considering Ydrasse was one partner, this makes some sense.

What I want to determine is whether this suggests anything about the second partner.

Yeah another thing proving it’s bullshit pretty much. How would Ydrasse possibly not know anything about it if it had any basis in reality?

Because Ydrasse was paying zero attention to this game.

Ydrasse being Lunar has given the claim

more

credibility, not less.

In what universe?

[T-Bone]

Okay summarized my thoughts here.

Spoiler: Reads 5.0

Cat Scratch Fever
Previous read: Scumlean
Currently: Townlean
Evidence for Solar: I think by play I would read them as solar but that they can only act at nights means this is not likely.
Evidence for Lunar: I think by play CSF has been very anti-Lunar.
Evidence for current read: I think DDS is correct that Mueh and Mathblade's flip provide evidence that CSF is being truthful about a protective role. The best I can say for CSF being scum is the way Ydrasse seemed to pocket Mastina (Meuh who has now flipped town). CSF sort of kept that up a bit with Meuh, but like it was also reasonable to protect Meuh!

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
Previous read: Town
Currently: Town
Evidence for Solar: Mod confirmed not to be
Evidence for Lunar: Could be I guess, but as DDS' counterpart was a town PR (Mathblade) I think it is unlikely that these two roles would be opposite alignments as it disadvantages one scumteam.
Evidence for current read: Play from Day 2 and beyond, plus my speculation about DDS?Math's role interactions. Like I guess my mod speculation could be wrong, and I would consider it if I thought DDS was playing like scum but I don't.

Enchant
Previous read: Townlean
Currently: Townlean
Evidence for Solar: Could be either alignment I suppose, biggest evidence I have for Enchant is that I just think Enchant is town.
Evidence for Lunar: Could be either alignment I suppose, biggest evidence I have for Enchant is that I just think Enchant is town.
Evidence for current read: I clocked Enchant as town pretty early and nothing has changed for me. Like maybe they are scum in which case GG you got me I've never limming here.

Firebringer
Previous read: Townlean
Currently: Somewhere in the middle
Evidence for Solar: Could be either alignment, but interaction with Ydrasse's slot seems to indicate they weren't aligned.
Evidence for Lunar: Unless Firebringer and their predecessor were playing the long game.
Evidence for current read: I've solidly read this slot as town for much of the game and FB's play hasn't really changed it. I am writing 'somewhere in the middle' only because my townreads on Enchant and DDS feel stronger to me.

Magician
Previous read: Townlean
Currently: Somewhere in the middle
Evidence for Solar: Could be either alignment but I think both Scarf and Junko proved this slot as town and Magician hasn't done anything to change it for me.
Evidence for Lunar: Could be either alignment but I think both Scarf and Junko proved this slot as town and Magician hasn't done anything to change it for me.
Evidence for current read: I think this slot is town and have for some time. The only thing that gives me pause is that when Meuh claimed about attunement, Scarf implied that he knew Meuh was telling the truth by softing a PR. Magician has since claimed to be VT. This is very odd and if my PoE is wrong this is the slot it is most likely wrong on.

Past Present Future
Previous read: Somewhere in the middle
Currently: scumlean
Evidence for Solar: Confirmed by Meuh that they can only be Solar. MMR claimed a guilty on this slot, and we know from MMR's role that they get 'vanilla' on Solar members, meaning that if MMR was playing logically, they thought PPF was Solar scum when they botched their claim up.
Evidence for Lunar: Can't be Lunar according to Meuh. Also they claimed a solar role anyway (Dawn Priestess)
Evidence for current read: Process of elimination, unable to reconcile MMR's play, and PPF has actively avoided all lims (including two correct ones on Solar) except for MMR.

Professotic
Previous read: Scumlean to null
Currently: Scumlean
Evidence for Solar: TBH I thought if Prof was scum it was more likely Solar, but I don't think they would bus a Porkens slot out of the blue when Porken's flip also condemns Rat. This was also when the vote could have gone to Ydrasse. Now, Prof disappeared after this Porkens vote, so maybe it got away from him. My evidence for Solar is about how much Prof crowed about punishing Lunar for playing badly, but now I think that was misdirection. Plus Prof completely ignored Rat's confirmed scum status to push some vanity work they did overnight on the phase Rat was limmed.
Evidence for Lunar: PR that acted during night with a very strong commute power for scum, since Lunar has shown no evidence of a kill. Reminds me of the Alien faction from Greater/Greatest mafia decks. Powerful abilities, limited factional kills. (Aliens famously get 1 factional kill for the entire game, it could have gone unused thus far until the kill guarantees) At the very least they are moon attuned.
Evidence for current read: I mean I thought Prof was scum for awhile for well documented reasons. I think Prof moving away from the Ydrasse flip yesterday is pretty damning for the slot. But I also think they have some pretty damning evidence for Solar...that I'm starting to wonder if they are 3rd party. I think by process of elimination though there's no way Prof can be town.

[Past Present Future]

There is 0 chance that she wouldn’t know anything about it, none. I know it’s bs anyway but that just adds to the multitude of reasons debunking it.

[T-Bone]

I really did think Ydrasse was going to flip town. T-Bone why did you unvote MMR?

To give them more time to explain themselves. From my perspective one of two things could be true. a) they were claiming real results b) they fakeclaimed and fakeclaimed really badly to get rid of a non-threatening slot. I had a hard time believing the second (and still do to some extent).

Even though I unvoted I never let up on the pressure on that slot. I pressured MMR like crazy. I claimed intent to hammer when it was clear MMR couldn't explain themselves. My intent to hammer was so MMR could post final reads. They never did and someone else hammered while I was asleep.

Now, why have you avoided voting correctly on any day phase?

Why did you avoid the Porkens vote?

Why did you avoid Rat despite Rat being confirmed scum?

Why did you try to derail the correct lim yesterday onto a mislim on me with very little time left in the day phase?

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

There is 0 chance that she wouldn’t know anything about it, none. I know it’s bs anyway but that just adds to the multitude of reasons debunking it.

I know it's convenient for you to believe this, but the in-thread evidence suggests that Ydrasse was not paying this game any attention. You can insist she obviously would have known as much as you want. You don't have evidence to support that insistence.

We know Ircher and Roden weren't paying much attention when the claim happened.

[T-Bone]

Or, when placed in context: does T-Bone let this claim happen?
I believe professotic would.

Do you want my input on this, or would that be too much WIFOM?

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Or, when placed in context: does T-Bone let this claim happen?
I believe professotic would.

Do you want my input on this, or would that be too much WIFOM?

I would very much appreciate your input on this!

[Past Present Future]

I really did think Ydrasse was going to flip town. T-Bone why did you unvote MMR?

To give them more time to explain themselves. From my perspective one of two things could be true. a) they were claiming real results b) they fakeclaimed and fakeclaimed really badly to get rid of a non-threatening slot. I had a hard time believing the second (and still do to some extent).

Even though I unvoted I never let up on the pressure on that slot. I pressured MMR like crazy. I claimed intent to hammer when it was clear MMR couldn't explain themselves. My intent to hammer was so MMR could post final reads. They never did and someone else hammered while I was asleep.

Now, why have you avoided voting correctly on any day phase?

Why did you avoid the Porkens vote?

Why did you avoid Rat despite Rat being confirmed scum?

Why did you try to derail the correct lim yesterday onto a mislim on me with very little time left in the day phase?

Don’t bs me, you tried to mislim Mastina when I tried hard to save her.
Math wanted to wait too and I didn’t vote furtive.
Who hammered furtive? Oh yeah Enchant and Magician voted the unCC’d doc claim so get rekt.

I must be scum since I didn’t anticipate Enchant would hammer obviously. Great detective work there, Sherlock.

Why don’t we bring up all of the VCS so you can stop with the bs shading?

I really did think Ydrasse would flip town buy I guess my not having a crystal ball somehow makes me scum?

[Enchant]

Who hammered furtive? Oh yeah Enchant and Magician voted the unCC’d doc claim so get rekt.

wait when

[Past Present Future]

I don’t know why any of the flips which point against me being scum are now being used to push me? If you both are town, you’re ignoring blatant occam’s razor. I can’t respond to anything devoid of logic. Logic and evidence points against me but for reasons I can’t fathom a lunar flip of a slot who clearly knew nothing about a bs claim her buddy made somehow implicates me. I’m starting to have doubts on Dangle now because I don’t recall their reasoning being this bad as town before.

[T-Bone]

Or, when placed in context: does T-Bone let this claim happen?
I believe professotic would.

Do you want my input on this, or would that be too much WIFOM?

I would very much appreciate your input on this!

Okay, so the short answer is, no, not if it was a fake claim. The long answer will require us to make some assumptions, namely that I am scum with MMR and Ydrasse. Ydrasse isn't posting as much as MMR was, so in terms of who would be valuable to the scumteam, that's MMR. We're not giving up his slot on a fakeclaim. We're also not fakeclaiming on PPF, who poses no threat to our team. They hard townread Ydrasse, and didn't have enough town equity to lead a lim on MMR or I. PPF only becomes a threat if a townblock forms with them, mastina-slot, yume-slot, and then someone like you or Mathblade to lead it. I think if you believe nothing else from this post, know that I don't view players who rely on metareads as a threat, so there's no way if I had input onto this plan that I allow it. Yes I bus and Ydrasse would have been a prime bus candidate, but Ydrasse is only valuable as a bus candidate if MMR is still alive for this hypothetical scumteam I'm not on.

Now if we believed PPF was Solar scum? Then I'd like to think we'd have a better plan than what MMR came up with. But even then, in multiball I don't value eliminating the other scumteam early, so I don't know for sure, but there's a chance if I believed we confirmed scum from the other team, we sit on the info until we need it to save ourselves. IE the town seriously starts to consider one of us as scum down the line, so that's when MMR drops the bombshell that PPF is scum.

I usually think a lot in games how I would play it much better if I were scum, and that's easy for me to do as town, but less easy for you to believe when you don't know my alignment. I honestly think had I rolled scum this game the team I was on would be in a much better position than the teams find themselves in now.

[Enchant]

PPF point actually valid: They can't be scum with Ydrasse.

I still think that was whiteknight thou.

[T-Bone]

I really did think Ydrasse was going to flip town. T-Bone why did you unvote MMR?

To give them more time to explain themselves. From my perspective one of two things could be true. a) they were claiming real results b) they fakeclaimed and fakeclaimed really badly to get rid of a non-threatening slot. I had a hard time believing the second (and still do to some extent).

Even though I unvoted I never let up on the pressure on that slot. I pressured MMR like crazy. I claimed intent to hammer when it was clear MMR couldn't explain themselves. My intent to hammer was so MMR could post final reads. They never did and someone else hammered while I was asleep.

Now, why have you avoided voting correctly on any day phase?

Why did you avoid the Porkens vote?

Why did you avoid Rat despite Rat being confirmed scum?

Why did you try to derail the correct lim yesterday onto a mislim on me with very little time left in the day phase?

Don’t bs me, you tried to mislim Mastina when I tried hard to save her.
Math wanted to wait too and I didn’t vote furtive.
Who hammered furtive? Oh yeah Enchant and Magician voted the unCC’d doc claim so get rekt.

I must be scum since I didn’t anticipate Enchant would hammer obviously. Great detective work there, Sherlock.

Why don’t we bring up all of the VCS so you can stop with the bs shading?

I really did think Ydrasse would flip town buy I guess my not having a crystal ball somehow makes me scum?

I didn't bring up Furtive at all, considering you were correctly not voting him at the end of the day phase. I also did not bring up Mastina or Meuh.

More importantly, you also didn't answer why you didn't vote correctly on Porkens and Rat. Considering we're all saying you are their partner, it's pretty strange you would straight up not answer why you didn't think they were scum. Especially Rat since Rat was confirmed scum after Porkens' flip.

[T-Bone]

PPF point actually valid: They can't be scum with Ydrasse.

I still think that was whiteknight thou.

I agree, I just thought if I left that out of my questions, that would be misleading framing on my part. You can see though that's the only point PPF chose to address, they didn't even address Porkens or Rat in their response to me.

[T-Bone]

Interesting that PPF chose to blame Enchant and Junko(Magicianslot) for hammering Furtive for claiming doc when we now know Furtive was VT.

[Past Present Future]

Who hammered furtive? Oh yeah Enchant and Magician voted the unCC’d doc claim so get rekt.

wait when

T-Bone is trying to make a case that my voting is bad when if all the VCs were analyzed it would show that argument to be nonsense since probably everyone didn’t vote optimally and I did think Ydrasse would flip town and I explained my reasoning for that. I could understand this bs push if Meuh had said I was moon attuned but there’s no reason not to believe that’s not true. However it’s just beyond fathomable that Dangle could seriously think if MMR had a real claim she wouldn’t know anything about it. In what game ever has anything like that ever happened?

And the fact still remains that I tried hard to keep Mastina from getting limmed by being on Scarf cw when both Solar scum were clearly trying to run her up. Especially RR.