Community

[Passenger]

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

Must be scum out of ideas.

Also, saw 2 different people taking this seriously.

I am pretty sure that this was a sarcastic/ joke post from Bell. Which made passenger latching onto it as an excuse to vote DeasV pretty bad.

I wasn’t using it as an excuse to vote DeasVail, I thought that DeasVail’s post was weird before I even saw Bell’s post, and then when I turned the page and saw his post it clicked in my mind.

Also how do you even come to the conclusion that I’m using Bell’s post as an excuse to vote DeasVail? I add on to Bell’s post and provide my own reasoning on top of it.

Maybe "as an excuse" is the wrong word, but you definitely framed your vote as you agreeing with Bell

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

Must be scum out of ideas.

This is also what I thought. It seems like DeasVail is playing from the point of view of someone who is looking over posts with a checklist of tells to appear useful, rather than engaging in actual solving.

VOTE: DeasVail

Like I said, I think I used the wrong words when I said "as an excuse."

Dumbing down my reaction to the post to make it more clear what I am saying that I saw, is I felt like I was reading "Yes, I agree with you, fellow townie, this *is* scummy. Lets vote this"

Framing your suspicions as agreeing with someone else feels like an approach that scum would take. It was compounded by the fact that I don't think that Bell was serious, so it felt like you were not closely reading either Deas or Bell's posts there.

Anyways, I am more interested in in Koka atm, but that was my gut reaction to reading your vote post.

~Luke

I understand. Let me put it this way:

I agreed with Bell’s post about DeasVail and I did not interpret it as a joke at all because I had thoughts that led into the post and beyond it.

[Passenger]

This doesn’t make sense, because Marci’s vote was clearly RVS. From this incorrect premise Kokabiel comes to the logical conclusion that Frogster is town and DeasVail is scum. Her assumption that Marci is scum for her naked vote is an NAI overreaction.

Do you agree with that logic or are you saying is making sense based on Kokabiel logic. Cuz I'm not seeing it.


Also, the miller claim. Never played with one. But from what I've read, it's basically a claim that's usually treated as "consider it true for the moment cuz we can't really disprove it". That's why I don't see much in Bell's reaction- said that it could be totally true, but could come from either town or mafia who played with a miller.

Kokabiel’s logic is entirely sound, but her premise that which she bases her logic on is false. Therefore, her conclusion is false too.

[Frogsterking]

Frog I get what you’re saying, but you being right on a read and me being wrong on a read in one game is not something that affects my approach all that much.

I was taught in improv that "yes, but" = a deceptive "no."

In your own estimation how likely are you to FoS scum on D1? And would you describe yourself as an individual who is unwilling to learn from their own mistakes?

[Frogsterking]

Frog I get what you’re saying, but you being right on a read and me being wrong on a read in one game is not something that affects my approach all that much.

I was taught in improv that "yes, but" = a deceptive "no."

In your own estimation how likely are you to FoS scum on D1? And would you describe yourself as an individual who is unwilling to learn from their own mistakes?

I'm not doing any deep soul searching here ftr, this is a line of discussion I've found to be AI in the past.

[DeasVail]

Frog I get what you’re saying, but you being right on a read and me being wrong on a read in one game is not something that affects my approach all that much.

I was taught in improv that "yes, but" = a deceptive "no."

In your own estimation how likely are you to FoS scum on D1? And would you describe yourself as an individual who is unwilling to learn from their own mistakes?

I would say that I’m pretty likely to FoS scum day 1, but I think it’s important to always consider where I might be wrong and constantly reevaluate reads. I don’t think it should be considered a “mistake” to have a wrong read. Or if it is, then we’re all making mistakes constantly. It’s about the reads journey! As silly as that sounds

[Frogsterking]

How specifically am I misrepresenting your motivations? As for 135, I found it very hard to follow the specificities of your interaction with Kokabiel so I wanted to logically map it on paper before I came to a conclusion.

The misrep comes from summarizing my interaction with Koko and then attributing a scum motivation on my end when my motivation could more easily be explained as a Resident trying to solve the game from an uninformed perspective.

[DeasVail]

But talk to me about Flavia. You clearly think that I’m wrong. Grandstanding is not going to sway me, so talk to me about your read there.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Flavia

Seems like a fun wagon.

Why this wagon and not kokabiel?

[Herta]

I think Bombay is town and their Flavia read is solid. There was something that I read from Flavia last night that didn't sit well with me but I didn't think a whole lot about it.

VOTE: Flavia

[Herta]

Admittedly I haven't studied this like I would like to do.

[Herta]

Frogster using the psychoanalytic approach and Passenger using a logic approach is interesting, and I don't know what to make of either right now.

[Herta]

A bit toxic

I don't think this language fits here at all.

[N.Y. M]

Well, both of my hydra partners left me out to dry, it seems.

-Rhae

[JohnnyFarrar]

I love that part in Hercules where some of the hydra heads just fuck off and get lattés

[Frogsterking]

I think your question of asking me to rationally breakdown why/where they are scumtelling is good and is content I am capable of delivering when I'm calm. I'm going to go for a quick walk to blow off some steam (I wrote this part last.) As far as describing to you the nature of my read on Flavia I think I captured the true essence of it below.

But talk to me about Flavia. You clearly think that I’m wrong. Grandstanding is not going to sway me, so talk to me about your read there.

I think Flavia's posts are cringey and unnatural in a way that makes them likely (with

moderate

certainty) to be new or a player returning to the game after a long hiatus who was unfortunate to recieve a scum PM. Their posts are the kind where if hired I might screenshot their ISO to be used for the digital Britannica's definition of "scummy." I'm very neurotic and it causes me physical distress to see a player describe themselves as likely to FoS scum on D1 and also be Townreading Flavia. I would describe the motivation behind Flavia's posts as "desperately attempting to pocket anyone who is gullible enough to listen." On a purely intuitive level I associate their posts with green slime, the image of a snake and the con artists from this Jordan Peele skit:

Of those four I can talk myself into scumreading Flavia if necessary; something about them still doesn't sit right with me.

I'm actually not exaggerating about my intuitive response to Flavia, I alluded to it here in my first post. I can empathize to an extent the impulse to Townread them and I think it requires insight rather than pure logic to see through that impulse, and unless something happens to me on my walk, when I return I will break down logically the holes in their fasād to the best of my ability (that's not entirely true, I will just give it a good-enough effort.)

[Nancy Drew 39]

ego

I didn’t get a pm in my inbox and didn’t check the hydra inbox. I didn’t leave you out to dry Yume. I just literally found out the game had started.

[Frogsterking]

ego

I didn’t get a pm in my inbox and didn’t check the hydra inbox. I didn’t leave you out to dry Yume. I just literally found out the game had started.

Bullshit.

[N.Y. M]

ego

I didn’t get a pm in my inbox and didn’t check the hydra inbox. I didn’t leave you out to dry Yume. I just literally found out the game had started.

Bullshit.

Charmed

No, my name is awesome “dead weight” Nancy and we went through this spiel already with my log in issues in Masque, so you know I don’t make stuff like that up.

I trust you you will eventually come to your senses like you did in that game.

So far liking - but also want to shake - you, furtive, Passenger and maybe Herta.

I don’t know when Mastina will show up. Feel free to accuse of lying about that too.

~Awesome “dead weight” Nancy

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Flavia

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

VOTE: Star Power

I hate shining lights. Always being deceptive.

Shading a slot which seems likely to become unpopular. Projection.

Hello! To make up for all the votes in Frog’s post, I will not vote.

Letting him take over all the votes? Opposition politician role?

A useless question in an effort to appear solvey. Low key pocketing vibes toward Dease.

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

JUST the delegation?

I am kind of thinking that StarPower appearing to not know that there is a 3rd party makes them more likely to be town.

Seriously doubt that the actual 3rd party would not be too self-conscious to frame it that way, so imo town>scum>3rd party

But mafia can't collaborate with the 3rd party in this game. Everybody losses. So, makes sense mafia would be as interested in this 3rd party as the town. Or not that interested yet as the game just started.

Insight into Flavia's point of view: they think a lot about scum win con and not much else.

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

Must be scum out of ideas.

This is also what I thought. It seems like DeasVail is playing from the point of view of someone who is looking over posts with a checklist of tells to appear useful, rather than engaging in actual solving.

VOTE: DeasVail

Maybe but why them specifically over hmm...basically everyone else, excluding Bombay and maybe Bell. Rest of us weren't exactly overtly solving stuff.

PS: I'm taking frogsterking's readings on page 1 as a joke, not them being serious

Low key pocketing vibes toward Dease, pointlessly listing players in the game (seemingly...), TMI into the gamestate.

As for their comment about me:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.0.29
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.0.29

Two scumtells in one. Discrediting a player who is aggressively solving as well as discrediting an argument against them by claiming it to be a joke. Empirically I can also say that no Town has ever reacted to me by assuming that I'm "joking" and on more than one occasion scum have pretended to interpret me to be "joking." Trolling, bizarre, weird, off-color, scum, "toxic" etc. are all responses I've recieved from Town, "joking" is not one of them. I can't provide direct evidence at this time as per site rules so you will have to take my word for it that to claim my first post was a joke is an example of an unnatural thought process which is likely to come from scum.

This feels like you misunderstood. My point was that the mafia would be

more

cognizant of the existence of the 3rd party, while StarPower's post reads like someone who was not thinking about the existence of a 3rd party.

Therefore, town being the most likely alignment to make such a post.

Not the basis for a strong read, but as far as page 1 posts go, it is nice to have an inkling on someone

~Luke

OK, I see where you come from.

The difference between DeasVail and the people who have been posting but not DeasVail is two things.

1. The fact that DeasVail posted about his inability to solve. This shows that DeasVail is scum concerned whether people believe he is solving or not. Statistically this has proven to be a weak but >rand tell.

2. The content of his post. He says that he’s trying to make posts AI in his head, but can’t. Scum when out of ideas tries to do exactly that: look at posts and see if they follow a list of common tells, rather than organically notice a post and realize that it follows a tell, which town does. I suppose the gist of what I’m saying is that DeasVail is scum trying to find reads by creating thought processes, meanwhile town finds reads not by creating thought processes but by simply having those thought processes.

OK, did post 74 change your read?

Ah, psychoanalysis...not my favorite but what can you do?

Low key pocketing vibes toward Bombay as well as Passenger and more shading the scary Resident who is trying to solve the game. Very useless question directed toward Passenger about 74, remember "a question a day keeps the tracker away." https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B0.5.29

If you don't believe me, keep reading this post and tell me how much you think Flavia thought about the answer to their question about 74.

Well, might seem so but ignoring isn't the best word to use. Reserving judgement till I can come to a conclusion.

You think so? Thing is Bell made one statement about DeasVail being scum out of ideas. Passenger asks a question about what means to make AI posts in their head. Next post, votes expanding on Bell's reasoning. I'm actually interested how things...change. If they do.

See no reason to lie about you liking psychoanalysis. I mean, lots of people do. Just not my liking...all those associations. Never believed in them

Taking a reserved and cautious approach is a scum tell for most players. Quibbling over semantics is scummy. Summarizing what happened in the game (and reminding us that there are other players in the game by listing their names again) without any attempt to parse for alignment information is scummy. The bit at the end about psychoanalysis is pointless jabber which seems pockety toward anyone willing to listen.

On page 5? Sorry, I'm not clairvoyant, mafia or really a good player. You'll get what I can think of now:

The Bombay: liked post 44, though I can really say I agree with that logics. Seems solvey. Maybe, maybe town.
Oh, I think the whole vote stuff about that vote is just playing Freud. Starting a random wagon might not be very efficient but it seems as much as I've read on this site to be a very used tactic.

Kokabiel: post 47- hmm, maybe they believe they've seen something but the way I see "a cigar is just a cigar". Don't get what scum-DeasVale would get from asking to join a vote that as far as I can tell is pretty much random. Basically, they either are trying to solve but I am not getting the logic or trying to find a reason to vote someone. Not sure yet.

Andresvmp- Post 94 has some logic. Granted, pretty non-committed but it was was page 3 or 4.

Furtiveglance- person who claimed miller. Suppose for the moment we can't disbelieve this claim.

DeasVail- so, I guess he tries to find town. Which is logical. No idea why you'd have a list so early. You might be contagious.

You- post 11. Reason I took it as a joke is that well, IMHO, anyone who can say who is mafia/town based on 1 post is either mafia or should work for FBI. Post 66- you really think two experienced mafia players couldn't make that interaction? Other than intuition why it couldn't be SvS? Post 87 is logical question, though didn't see Johnny post any reason to be suspicious of DeasVail? rest is mostly you knowing the whole mafia team is stuff and being overly assertive.

Passenger- told you why I found some posts...worrying.

The rest are the rest. No real idea.

My alleged "psychoanalysis" indicates Flavia is the type of player who doesn't feel confident in faking SvS interactions or making up reads on scum buddies. I think almost all of the above are Town, if not all. I also don't think Flavia has interacted with their partners very much if at all. My "pychoanalysis" extends deeper however; Flavia

feels isolated

and Flavia

is the most active groupscum.

Also, if you want to know what a Town response looks like, try this:

Softclaim present.

VOTE: johnny

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

I'm gonna need coffee.

Time's up, Herta. I need you to stop thread flaking and write a reads list now.

Rude.

Marci is town.

or sometimes this:

I'm waiting to hear more from you about your own reads, Rad.

Sure. I'm leaning town on a few people. Off The Hook. PenguinPower. Pooky. Nothing specific about them, just some early vibes that I don't weigh too heavily but they are there.

Lean scum on The toad. I think 156 is reading too deeply into my question. I could only come up with 2 good explanations as noted in 167, and I'm leaning towards the scum read.

No other real reads atm. I think Lukewarm has given enough good content to come to a reasonable early read, which I might go do now. Most people are still joking around so it's hard to tell what's what yet. Also this is such a huge game I don't even know how to approach it. I think the wagon on Ceph was interesting but not sure what I can get out of it yet.

I'd stake my life on the fact that #115 from Flavia is horseshit which was improvised on the spot.

Random or serious?

"A question a day keeps the tracker away." Remember to continue reading for Flavia's follow up to their questions in 103 and 133.

This doesn’t make sense, because Marci’s vote was clearly RVS. From this incorrect premise Kokabiel comes to the logical conclusion that Frogster is town and DeasVail is scum. Her assumption that Marci is scum for her naked vote is an NAI overreaction.

Do you agree with that logic or are you saying is making sense based on Kokabiel logic. Cuz I'm not seeing it.


Also, the miller claim. Never played with one. But from what I've read, it's basically a claim that's usually treated as "consider it true for the moment cuz we can't really disprove it". That's why I don't see much in Bell's reaction- said that it could be totally true, but could come from either town or mafia who played with a miller.

"A question a day keeps the tracker away." Now we have a question in 160 to stay mindful for the follow up as well. Here they go bringing up Bell again. Why? Why do they keep reminding us Bell exists in the game? Do they think his posts can be viewed as scummy and they're hoping we will all suddenly notice and miselim him?

If partner equity is going to become a theme, I'd like to propose Passenger has partner equity with N.Y.M and Flavia. When players are hyper accurate (like I

sometimes

am on D1) it can force scum to make scumtells they wouldn't ordinarily make (like chainsawing.) I can link to you at least one completed game where scum were forced to react this way to me. 135 looks... unnatural to me? It pings me in a way Passenger's posting hasn't done yet. I feel there can be an element of projection in it where Passenger accuses me of approaching other slots in bad faith while they themselves manufacture a case by misrepresenting my motivations.

I'll admit Koko was a part of my team solve I mentioned earlier, but now with more information (from their wagon piling on) I feel their reaction to pressure is more indicative of a Resident who is wrongly accused.

Also yes I may as well out my team solve is N.Y.M/Flavia/Passenger, it was previously N.Y.M/Flavia/Koko.

My opinion is that there is an element of Price's Law at play, where Flavia and N.Y.M are abandoning thread control and Passenger feels motivated to take up the reigns as a more active scum poster.

I'll wait a little bit longer before I get into my ideas about hunting for the Dictator.

If it becomes a theme- maybe I should figure it out what this partner equity is.

And you've figured it out I'm mafia all the while back. Your confidence is impressive...though very wrong. But I'm really curious...how did NYM got into that team. And when did we abandon threat control when I posted very little and NYM posted- exactly once.

Low key pocketing vibes toward me, mistaking me for a mere frog who will flip their read because I got a little attention (I am not a frog, I am both a frogster and a king.) Playing dumb pretending not to understand the concept partner equity refers to even though it's immediately obvious that it refers to associative tells is an example of a unnatural thought process which is more likely from scum.

I have some empirical evidence 162 is more likely to come from scum which I can share as per site rules but I am getting burnt out so I will save the rest of my analysis of this post, the one below and my conclusion for another time.

It makes it feel like she wanted to make a comment on *something*
~Luke

That part might be true. I try to talk more.

Maybe, but it was an observation related to my question to furtive.

Current discussion? Well, I am here: Kokabiel is convinced asking for votes on them is scum. Plus the whole inviting vs invited being a sign of town/mafia. Nope, don't agree with this logic but I don't think mafia would be so willing to put it all on that hill.

Frog- they made it clear they scumread me from the beginning. I was sincerely curious how they came to the conclusion the team is me/Passenger and the person who posted once.

[Frogsterking]

ego

I didn’t get a pm in my inbox and didn’t check the hydra inbox. I didn’t leave you out to dry Yume. I just literally found out the game had started.

Bullshit.

Charmed

No, my name is awesome “dead weight” Nancy and we went through this spiel already with my log in issues in Masque, so you know I don’t make stuff like that up.

I trust you you will eventually come to your senses like you did in that game.

So far liking - but also want to shake - you, furtive, Passenger and maybe Herta.

I don’t know when Mastina will show up. Feel free to accuse of lying about that too.

~Awesome “dead weight” Nancy

1) Did you spend all that time you weren't posting in this game coming up with this response? The difference between this game and Masque is that you posted about your trouble logging in on page 1 a few minutes after the game started.

2) Why aren't you voting Flavia? You will have to bus them anyway and I noticed you have no scum reads. That's an awful lot of townreads to pull from skimming and I think if you were Town you would be more skeptical of my play so far.

[Frogsterking]

Hello everyone

- The least awesome head

Which one posted this and why are all of you ghosting the thread?

I also noticed that you declined to comment on this here post, N.Y.M. Why is that?

[N.Y. M]

I’m not using up more than one of whatever’s remaining of my 125 posts on this nonsense. I would probably br sr you rn if it weren’t both for Masque and I can’t remember which game but Pooky was scum in that and he said that you had a polarized meta where you lurk out as scum and hyperpost as town.

So you can continue to wrongly push me and look stupid doing so, up to you. I can’t bus anyone because I’m town and if you knew a damn thing about my meta, you would know that I don’t have sr’s straight out of the gate in most cases.

I’m taking my fucking time because we have a post cap of only 125 posts with 3 heads. I had 250 in Happy Face and almost had 200 posts in under two rl days.

I will look at your Flavia case but going out of your way to piss me off when you’re apparently being pretty dense here because I once again repeat: I don’t make stuff like that up. Btw, I did check our discord and Mastina should be on tomorrow.

In my ego post, I addressed Yume and none of us are ghosting. If you’re going to pursue this nonsense, I will probably just ignore you, your call.

[Frogsterking]

So you can continue to wrongly push me and look stupid doing so, up to you. I can’t bus anyone because I’m town and if you knew a damn thing about my meta, you would know that I don’t have sr’s straight out of the gate in most cases.

I’m taking my fucking time because we have a post cap of only 125 posts with 3 heads. I had 250 in Happy Face and almost had 200 posts in under two rl days.

I will look at your Flavia case but going out of your way to piss me off when you’re apparently being pretty dense here because I once again repeat: I don’t make stuff like that up. Btw, I did check our discord and Mastina should be on tomorrow.

I already know you aren't group scum because of Flavia spew. The problem is you can still be Dictator. These players all get the Flavia-cleared groupscum stamp of approval:


Kokabiel
Dease,
Passenger,
N.Y.M
Bombay
Bell
Myself

This leads me to believe andres is scum with Flavia because:

1) this comment

Andresvmp- Post 94 has some logic. Granted, pretty non-committed but it was was page 3 or 4.

2) I have played with andres as both alignments and skipping a night after promising to be back is a red flag from andres

Anyway, I’m going to sleep. I’m back tomorrow.

3) andres matches the profile of a lurker slot leaving Flavia to feel isolated in her scum game.

So my current solve for group scum is Flavia/andres and one more player who both has less than eleven posts and isn't excluded in the list above. The players who meet both of these criteria are:

Herta
Furtive
Penguin
Starpower

Now if I sheep Nancy and Bell's Townread on Furtive, I assume Flavia isn't aligned with Star because of their first post, and I give some lenience to Herta because they clapped back at me in a Townie way when I demanded reads from them, that leaves me with this team solve:

Flavia/andres/Penguin

[Bell]

VOTE: Flavia

Seems like a fun wagon.

Why this wagon and not kokabiel?

Who?

[Bell]

This is an interesting frogster. Not sure if power woof. Attempt.
I dunno if frogster scum is any good.

*tilts head* tbh I’m surprised more people aren’t voting me, I say completely oblivious that I haven’t played with half the game before. Therefore they don’t know that my activity is kind of a blaring red sign that I’m scum here.