So, a trip down memory lane.
Why Time is scum.
Part 1: The Claim.
Post 23 wrote:I onced created a game where the players had to choose a "leader" the first day (the leader had a form of vote immunity, but was not infallible) - the day took 45 pages. Good times. I am curious to see what happens with the serum-assigning process. In the above instance, claiming is what it came down to. (
I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm just saying its what happened in a game with a similar structure.=P
)
Before anything is really said, this seed was planted. Then, we get into Oro's bidness:
37 wrote:Actually I came up with a different idea which people can give their thoughts on. If there's any townie, made of steel, who believes they would benefit the town by getting the serum, then they should claim. The fact they are made of steel may prevent them being nightkilled before they can use their ability or confer their benefits upon the town. It should also be an ability which is able to be verified by the town for what it did the following day, to preclude the possibility of them being scum. If they turn out to be scum lying and something happens other than what they claimed we can throw them in the mycosynth on day 2 and lynch them day 3 (come to think of it this may be argued to be a bad plan as a result). Of course another drawback is that it is more than possible that scum have an ability to remove steel themselves, depending on how many townies are made of steel.
BUT...
38, 3 minutes later wrote:I don't think anyone should claim until the town has discussed which approach is the best.
Now, 6 minutes after that.
The claim wrote:I am Triskelion.
I am a "steel fleet" a town aligned steel being. According to my flavor, I noticed a hole in the razor fields, saw a war waging, and decided to help the fleshies. I win when my faction is the last standing.
If received, I will give full disclosure, and cooperate in any way I can to help verify my claim.
Notice that this happens after it is said clearly not to, with enough time (yes, 6 minutes is enough time to have seen the second post).
As if that's not good enough:
Oh well, it probably would have come down to a claim anyway. Everyone is vanilla so claims dont mean a whole lot. Like I said, later down the line you can throw me in the Mycosynth pit to verify.
"It would come down to a claim." "Claims don't mean much"
I, of course, comment on this:
47 wrote:One is very hesitant in giving a metalloid the serum. One is also even more hesitant that it has been done this early to one that was willing to vote for oneself to gain said serum.
So, we get this:
I really dont see the harm in claiming when I did. Coming from my perspective, I had to claim - the only downside of me claiming is that it gives ammunition and a topic to some possible scummers that haven't posted yet.
I cant persuade people to give me the serum on my gaming merits alone; I'm a relative newbie here - the best thing I could do was claim.
Like I said, if you dont like how I'm playing, or believe I am not to be trusted, you can always toss me in the Mycosynth pit a
few days from now.
As I player, I dont really have any gimmicks are obvious "tells" - I'm just sort of a rough and tumble player who bulldozes through things and comes off strong. When I sniff scum, I can get extremely aggressive to the point of shocking other players. My townie philosophy is one of open books, I will never lie, and if I do, shoot me dead - I'm a stern believe in lynch all liars. I am the best candidate to get a power because I will become immune to the whole night-kill process, leaving better targets for the scum to NK = the vanilla townies who aren't metal. The 'fleshies'.
^ The above was basically a "vote for me" plea. (Speaking of voting, I'm doing it tomorrow for the first time! Obama 08' @_@)
If someone else claims metal today, I'm guessing they are scum. I know thats a huge case of WIFOM, but eh. If you are a fellow townie metal player, hold off as long as possible. We dont need egos clashing d1 to grab the first serum power, and we dont need the scum knowing who you are to make a mycosynth case on you.
This is one of those itchy posts all over.
1.) The "I had to claim" at this juncture is positively an untruth.
2.) The "I can't get the serum based on my play" is not a good sign.
3.) Newb card.
4.) The "synth me down the road a few days" - a few days would, of course, be more than enough to cause damage.
5.) Pre-emptive metal bashing.
We can sure get itchier real quick though:
You know what we could do, if people dont believe my claim - we could elect another person for serum usage and vote for me today (if that would make people comfortable). You will see me survive the day because I cannot be killed, and we can save any innocent townie from being killed. And then you could give me the serum d2. But then there is the issue of serum receiver dying that night...>_<
You could both give me the serum AND vote for me. I like that idea.
Suggesting wasting lynch knowing it only proves metal status is not a good idea.
Asking for the serum and the lynch is not a good idea.
Is that scummy? It denies information AND acts as a shield to keep the other scum from being hit. Yes.
After I comment on this, we get THIS response:
sigh@SpyreX
Such a fool. A fool of a Took. Or scum.
LOOK. ASSUME I AM TELLING THE TRUTH.
CAN YOU AFFORD TO LOSE SUCH A VALUABLE ASSET D1 BY MYCOing ME NOW?
Thats just foolish. Its like lynching a claimed cop or doctor d1.
OMGUS
Mycosynth: SpyreX
SpyreX wrote:
Waste the Serum AND potentially waste the lynch?
90% of all d1 lynches hit townies. I'm sorry, how is that a waste? Pontificate more plz.
1.) The "Valuable Asset" business coupled with a bad similie (it is NOT like a cop or doctor, at all).
2.) A synth vote on me - this comes into play later.
3.) A made up number, which is awesome, to try and justify telling the town to mislynch.
Now, some key nuggets of responses in the next post.
I dont disagree with point 1, but you're shooting down ideas before they even have a chance to come to fruition. I dont like this. You're not giving Ort (or myself) a chance to even talk about things without casting us in a negative light. I'm a firm believer in bonding until those bonds are broken or the "best buds" philosophy as I call it Razz Anyone can be the cold analytical sniperkid, not granting any case of WIFOM in any situation, only relying on hard lynch evidence, never trusting anything anyone says no matter the situation. Thats simply not my style and not the way I wish to go about playing most games. Especially this one.
Do you really think I'd be so bold to claim as early as I did if I was scum? If not me, then who? Everyone else is vanilla. Its a bad idea for more metalliods (if they exist) to step forward in hopes of getting the serum. I dont understand your confusion.
With that logic, a Metalloid will never get the serum because you will have Myco'd them to confirm them. That makes ZERO sense.
We can get a better scumhunting process going in the Serum/Myco stage before the lynch stage. Thats what should obvious.
I am really starting to take your hostility towards the idea of a town-aligned metalloid getting a power as just pure fear. Extreme, un-adulterated scummy fear. Your first response to my claim was to myco vote me. What does that say about you? Rationalize it however you want, I think that was a big error on your part. I'm watching you.
1.) After the "damage" had been done I explained why, very clearly, this course was not a good one.
--- The "best buds" is another transparent "trust me, with no reason"
--- The implication that my not trusting him is "bad" play is, well, just wow.
2.) We've covered this point, but again: Yes, it is obvious that a scum could claim this early with minimum risk to the team winning. (Also WIFOM, but whatever).
3.) Disagreement doesn't change the fact the play makes sense.
4.) In what was defined as a 1-week long day 1, this is clearly saying to not even scumhunt - it is obvious that a consensus will not be reached quickly, so.
5.) Because I see the benefits for scum, especially scum metal, to get the serum day 1 I am scum. This is the true start of the antagonism (this becomes really important to another huge point in this mess).
Part 2: General "Scum" Statements.
I think we should seriously consider not using the serum at all though. And by going "hurfdurf he was noble enough to say we dont need it so he should get it" is just completely ignoring what he was going for. Sure, statistically, we have a higher chance at giving the serum to a townie (even though someone has claimed and gone through great lengths to see that the serum be given to the right person COUGH COUGH) but, stating the obvious here, there is always the chance a scummer could recieve the serum.
And in a game where there is at least one metal scum (maybe?)
and one NK scumside, its too risky to give them more powers. By avoiding the whole serum issue the game basically becomes a basic setup holding a few unkillables with conditions. Another downside to avoiding the serum all together is potentially losing out on scum-sniffing abilities.
This comes not long after it was clear he wasn't getting the serum. Decision: to not give the serum to anyone.
Reasons: It 'might' go to scum.
Other Key Point: The (maybe) in regards to the scum metal. This is one of those classic "I am scum, I know who/what the scum are, yet I better be sure to not
seem
like I know too much about the setup."
I really wish I knew how many metalloids there were in the game. (Not fishing. Really.)
I'm just gonna quote that one.
I really dont like being accused of being metal scum. I know its all WIFOM (AND I'm beating a dead horse) but do you really think I would have gone to the lengths I have d1 to claim metal, in hopes of the serum going to the right person - if I was scum? Would I really take that big of a risk? SpyreX keeps saying over and over again he thinks I'm scum metal, but I'm starting to think he's scum metal. I'm currently the biggest scum threat (I post alot, I cant be killed) so his continual attacks against me make sense for him being scum. Or the scum could just be all lurking. :sadface:
WIFOM / WFIOM / WIFOM / EMO / OMGUS / "The scum are either active or lurking". Seriously.
Well this is pointless because its just the three of us posting and I'm not very confident about either of you. You're pushing me towards a pbpa and I really dont want to do one, because they're just so time consuming and I told myself I'm gonna wait until more people post.
Will the other 9 people please stand up? Mad
Note, I did ask for the PbPA. Never happened.
Lurker callout.
I refuse to accept anyone's assertion that Seraphim is actively lurking this thread based only on his/her site-wide meta. I have said this before, and your assertion to the contrary is noted as a sign you shouldn't be taken too seriously in the future in my book.
That was a start, but its the fact that everything he's said leads to not pro-town results that makes me keep my vote.
Sigh
Ok, mod, I would like to be replaced. I think I am done with mafiascum.net. Have fun everyone!
This one, with how things have went, really, extra bothers me.
We are -obviously- in all ways talking about Sera. TE comes in with this magnificent /emo and then ... better. In retrospect I'm thinking this was a very low-level psychological ploy.
I voted for Seraphim.
Still dont know who to myco...
Myco: Wall-E
Meh.
Well at this point I honestly just want this day to end so we can get an impression of whats going on tomorrow. Things are starting to stagnate. Much has been discussed about whether its worth it or not to myco someone who has claimed flesh or metal, or someone who hasn't. I came to the conclusion that I honestly dont care a whole lot who we myco -today-, I just want to see it done. And considering you have the most myco votes and are for it, there is no harm in giving you my vote. Effecient bandwagoning.
I'd also like to remind people that it is imperative that we reach a myco vote before a lynch vote. We cannot afford to waste it 1 day in the entire game. So if you are going to lynch vote, please make myco your priority and make sure you dont hit majority before the myco has.
The apparent apathy and bandwagon synth vote are both not good. However, this makes me think that Wall-E is NOT metal scum.
Porkens is irrelevant.
Are you trying to breadcrumb to some "lol random lets give the serum to porkens because he's noble kekeke!"
Seriously? Is that all you got?
Just because you keep saying we should myco and lynch me over and over again isn't going to make it happen. If you want to make a case, make a case and quit dwadling. I have done countless protown things this game and I challenge anyone to say I have not. I also challenge anyone to make a PBPA addressing the scummy things I have done. I will gladly address any concerns about my play. Keep on making blind accusations, it makes you look really good (sarcasm).
I hope more people read SpyreX as steel scum. Notice, he is the ONLY person so far to accuse me of being steel scum. He has been the ONLY person so far to continually suggest my mycosynthing and lynching.
I am scum because I'm the ONLY one doing something. Yet, CFR and I are scum buddies. Remember that.
Obviously a bad idea? I thought several people agreed together that its obviously a good idea? Are all those people wrong and you right?
An appeal to majority.
Part 3: Antagonism
Now, keep in mind TE has said over and over -I- have been the one that has been antagonistic. This, again, plays a psychological role in how he wants to be viewed.
I'm not going to post all of our exchanges, but go ahead and reread - aside from my solid belief he is metal scum I do NOT become antagonistic unless, of course, he is first. (The second-to-last statement above, is a shining example of that (and the start of the decent).
Part 4: The Smoking Gun
I'm gonna skip to the important part of this.
Mod, 390 wrote:The day will not end without a replacement for Tuberkulos. I have a few prospekts in mind.
Oro, 391 wrote:So basically you have no basis to undermine the random vote based on the inactivity of the recipient. So wait, what was your basis again?
392 wrote:
Exactly Ort, thats why I call it a smoking gun.
394 wrote:Now that Nat has posted, they will both retract their statements concerning a new serum beneficiary. But I say the damage is done.
The arguement they were pushing was so ludicrous and illogical I dont how they thought anyone could buy it. I honestly think we have our two best candidates for myco and lynch, after all thats been said and done today
So, after the mod tells us that we ARE waiting for Tuber (this was NOT confirmed until this point) we get quick snipes from oro and TE followed by the "They'll do the logical thing at this point, but they're still scum."
Part 5: "We, the people"
I really shouldn't have to explain it. Its pretty obvious. The facts are this: We,
the town,
decided that the best way to handle the serum would be to randomize the process, and anyone trying to tinker with the results after the fact would be considered scum. You and SpyreX made the fatal mistake of doing just that. I dont know exactly what you were thinking, but my best guess is, as I have said, you both thought you could use Tuber-inactive thing to your advantage to get a quick foothold on serum usage, perhaps for a few days (you could easily cook up something to make people keep giving SpyreX the serum). You could porbably also use the serum to confirm each other in fashion. Those few days could make or break the game and the scum would know this. You risked going after the serum at such a late date in hopes pork barreling a new serum majority.
When I say you went against the 'consensus of the town' I mean exactly that. The majority voted for Tuber to recieve the serum based on the random idea that Wall-E came up with and I nurtured to fruition. Seven people voted for him to receive the serum. Dont understand your confusion there.
Ok, there's the whole "we" factor - again, another low-level psychological ploy (and appeal to the majority).
However, this whole disagreement = scum business. In my reread, three people made mention of it: TE, Wall-E and Porkens. This does not make a consensus. The fact that others voted for the serum does NOT equate directly to thinking this is a scum move.
Even if it did: doing it for the reasons we (CFR and I) did still makes sense barring the Mod holding the sun in the skies (which is what happened).
So, tl;dr:
We've got the gamut of scum bidness up there.
1.) The claim itself in this game is a good scum move.
2.) We've got some great appeals:
--- Emotion
--- Majority
--- Persecution
3.) We've got all the great mafia terms:
--- WIFOM
--- OMGUS
4.) We've got us some "newb" card
--- We also got "I've played this game a lot"
5.) We've got consistently absent logic.
--- Or "predicated" logic in the case of CFR and I.
6.) An absence of scum hunting.
7.) Active antagonism with blame-shifting
--- I AM and WILL be antagonistic with him, yet if you read he did in fact start that chain (see Persecution).
So, yes, I see plenty of reasons to give him the synth. Best part is, even if you dont trust me - you'll be hanging me.
Once I see he's reached majority for synth I will give my overall parting words and then vote for myself. At that point assume I am dead because I sure am not talking anymore.
I am -NOT- replying to TE about any of this. I put it up there so it, simply, was in one spot.