Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)

[SpyreX]

I want at least one, if not two people tomorrow to really go back and dissect everything thats happened. I want a highlight reel when I am dead and at peace.

Then, of course, I want you to lynch this scumbag.

[SpyreX]

If I was a metal townie I would be doing about the absolute worst thing I could. That's just insulting.

Much like thinking if I was scum I'd be stupid enough to parade myself out like this.

[Wall-E]

Too scummy to be scum.

[SpyreX]

Am I -really- that scummy?

I think most of you know that I am going to flip town. However, you also know you HAVE to lynch me.

[Timeater]

Sad thing is people cannot see how transparent the scum case is to myco me. Ort recognizes it (my obvious scumbuddy & best bud). If you look back to the reactions after I initially claimed, lots of people said I read town, and my claim and style was very townie. That being the case, the scum have tried to rationalize my myco'ing as some sort of twisted necessity. Not only have they attacked my character, they have attacked my playstyle and the few people who have tried to align with me. WIFOM here, so take this with a grain of salt: I simply am the biggest threat the scum face right now. Of course they would be pushing for my mycosynthing adamantly - and if they achieve it d1, kuddos to them. I recommend everyone who has gotten caught up the past few pages and do a re-read of the entire thread, and then post with thoughts, new myco/vote tallies, whatever. And on that note I NEED TO GO TO SLEEP.

[Wall-E]

I said you seemed town.

That does little to negate the scummyness of asking for the serum and claiming metal.

I hope you realize the difference, TE.

[Gremwell]

Wow, just wow.

with all the bickering, name calling and octuple posting thats been going on I can see why you would call me a lurker when you rack up 4 pages in about 5 hours.

first off

Vote: Ort, Serum: MafiaSSK and Myco Wall-e

I was considering voting ort back on my last post but it takes me so damn long to read all this garbage Porkens beat me to the punch.

as for all the trash talking, it is not protown to mislynch yourself to prove a point. I personally don't buy that TE is scum at this juncture and killing spyrx will neither confirm or deny that for me. I think you guys need to drom the blinders and lay off each other till the blood cools and you can aparoch this game with a level head.

[SpyreX]

You are unkillable, thats it.

When I flip town you definitely aren't going to show the best judgment and, honestly, will look scummy.

You have claimed to be the only metal town (an act that, if they had argued) would have just outed more. If it is true, then you have announced, "Hay scum, dont you worry none. Just kill whomever you want, except TE"

I'm more of a threat dead than you've been.

I'm not attacking your character, nor would I ever. I am attacking your play in this game as scum. Nice try though

[SpyreX]

P.S. that is on that chance that I'm wrong. About the same as someone winning the lotto.

[Timeater]

When I flip town you definitely aren't going to show the best judgment and, honestly, will look scummy.

Ditto. You are going to look really silly.

You've been antagonizing me and persecuting me constantly. You are basically now forcing me and others to lynch you. We -have- to call your bluff. This is not a great townie move. I think you'll realize this when everything is said and done.

CF Riot attacked my character when he said he think I would cheat when I said I would help look for a replacement.

[SpyreX]

I am not CFR, wooo.

I've been persecuting you since you jumped out with that amazing scum move. Each step of the way you've managed to find the scummiest path.

BTW, nice "I'm not sure you're scum now" move to try to look better when I come up town.

You are scum.

[Timeater]

I am not CFR, wooo.

I was not only addressing you.

You are scum.

Lol no. When I turn town, whether it be tomorrow or at role-reveal at the end of the game, can I get an e-cookie from you? And maybe some e-milk? And then truce maybe? O.o

BTW, nice "I'm not sure you're scum now" move to try to look better when I come up town.

Its not a move, this is a mafia, and nothing is for certain. I am hoping you are scum, I really am. But you have pushed people to this inexorable position to vote for you. You say you want to be lynched. If you're scum, we cannot risk a bluff on your part. If your townie, well, you're just a townie, and we dont lose a whole bunch. Remember, you are the person suggesting we lynch the equivalent of a claimed doctor or cop D2 (myco+lynch). Thats generally not very good town play, mr mafia guru.

[Porkens]

TE, which is more important, keeping your metal or lynching spyrex?

It would be a pretty damn obvious bait and switch if he didn't make good on his self-vote promise after you 'synthed yourself.

[SpyreX]

Wow, you are not a doctor or cop. Dont pretend you have that level of altering the game. You are lynchproof (which is REAL bad if you are scum) and a claimed BP (which is REAL worthless if you are town)

Keep pedal'in back though. Its pretty awesome.

Ohh and when you quote me and use the word "you", well, ma bad again.

[Porkens]

I'd still rather lynch Ort.

The benefits of synthing a scum metal FAR outway the risks of synthing a town metal.

So I really support synthing TE.

[SpyreX]

Ohh, and if again the world hates me and you are (bad) town.. just look at my sig.

I feel no remorse.

[Timeater]

Ohh, and if again the world hates me and you are (bad) town.. just look at my sig.

I feel no remorse.

If thats the way you are going to be - Nah, I'm a better player than you. Thx4playing though.

TE, which is more important, keeping your metal or lynching spyrex?

It would be a pretty damn obvious bait and switch if he didn't make good on his self-vote promise after you 'synthed yourself.

Keeping my metal. But if I synth myself, I am more likely to be synthed before SpyreX lynched. And I cant have that.

[Timeater]

Also thats a pretty tricky questions Pork, because either answer can be used against me. I honestly think keeping my metallic status (for now) is the best action for the town. One part of me thinks SpyreX is a conniving scum, playing with his life in an attempt to bring down a metal townie - because he's already been had concerning his tampering in the randomization process. Another part of me thinks he's just an overblown egotistical townie idiot who thinks he's the best thing for mafia since the invention of doctor role.

[SpyreX]

This game we're just not going to agree. Thats fine. I want to make it clear that in other games I will judge you on the play. It IS NOT personal, no matter how many times you say it is.

I will tell you this: If you ARE town your play has actively hurt the town, from the point you claimed metal with no reason for anyone to believe you as such. I still 100% believe you are scum, however.

So, give your case on why you think I'm scum. All of it, go dig it all up. I'm not going to respond (aside from bald-face lies which I doubt). I just want it in once place.

Tomorrow I'm going to go ahead and give my case on you being scum.

[SpyreX]

I would like to know as well, what is it that I have been egotistical about? What exactly is it?

[Wall-E]

This fight is bordering on inanity. More carefully thought-out posts from all parties, please.

This looks from here like it might be some hot town on town action.

Please, continue. *eats popcorn*

[geraintm]

Argh!
this game is mad
i live in the UK, i post whilst at work in reply to what happens overnight and if anyone posts during the 8 or so hours i am there, i'll try and reply.
to come back to 5 pages of new posts that just make my head hurt...
I am realyl having trouble keeping up with this game, i am doing my best but i suspect things might slip through sometimes

firstly

lynch cf_riot
myco spyrex

i thought i had voted like this before, but was it because it wasnt in bold??

as best i can make out from yesterday, you are all mad. i can't workout why people are so sure that someone flipping scum clears people so well. It might help point to someone's alignment, but to clear them with nothing else...i can't see it.
i hate preplanned lynches, disagree with them, there is bound to be info that comes along tonight/tomorrow that will send us all off on a different track, so offering yourself up today in the hope of getting the guy you think is scum tomorrow, i won't go with.
had to get that off my chest now, will try and write more later today.
i am not on at the weekends though

[TonyMontana]

[face_palm]

Unsynth Unvote
Synth: Timeeater
Vote: Spyrex

[geraintm]

notgoing to be able to post again now till monday

[SpyreX]

So, a trip down memory lane.

Why Time is scum.

Part 1: The Claim.

I onced created a game where the players had to choose a "leader" the first day (the leader had a form of vote immunity, but was not infallible) - the day took 45 pages. Good times. I am curious to see what happens with the serum-assigning process. In the above instance, claiming is what it came down to. (

I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm just saying its what happened in a game with a similar structure.=P

)

Before anything is really said, this seed was planted. Then, we get into Oro's bidness:

Actually I came up with a different idea which people can give their thoughts on. If there's any townie, made of steel, who believes they would benefit the town by getting the serum, then they should claim. The fact they are made of steel may prevent them being nightkilled before they can use their ability or confer their benefits upon the town. It should also be an ability which is able to be verified by the town for what it did the following day, to preclude the possibility of them being scum. If they turn out to be scum lying and something happens other than what they claimed we can throw them in the mycosynth on day 2 and lynch them day 3 (come to think of it this may be argued to be a bad plan as a result). Of course another drawback is that it is more than possible that scum have an ability to remove steel themselves, depending on how many townies are made of steel.

BUT...

I don't think anyone should claim until the town has discussed which approach is the best.

Now, 6 minutes after that.

I am Triskelion.

I am a "steel fleet" a town aligned steel being. According to my flavor, I noticed a hole in the razor fields, saw a war waging, and decided to help the fleshies. I win when my faction is the last standing.

If received, I will give full disclosure, and cooperate in any way I can to help verify my claim.

Notice that this happens after it is said clearly not to, with enough time (yes, 6 minutes is enough time to have seen the second post).

As if that's not good enough:

Oh well, it probably would have come down to a claim anyway. Everyone is vanilla so claims dont mean a whole lot. Like I said, later down the line you can throw me in the Mycosynth pit to verify.

"It would come down to a claim." "Claims don't mean much"

I, of course, comment on this:

One is very hesitant in giving a metalloid the serum. One is also even more hesitant that it has been done this early to one that was willing to vote for oneself to gain said serum.

So, we get this:

I really dont see the harm in claiming when I did. Coming from my perspective, I had to claim - the only downside of me claiming is that it gives ammunition and a topic to some possible scummers that haven't posted yet.

I cant persuade people to give me the serum on my gaming merits alone; I'm a relative newbie here - the best thing I could do was claim.

Like I said, if you dont like how I'm playing, or believe I am not to be trusted, you can always toss me in the Mycosynth pit a

few days from now.

As I player, I dont really have any gimmicks are obvious "tells" - I'm just sort of a rough and tumble player who bulldozes through things and comes off strong. When I sniff scum, I can get extremely aggressive to the point of shocking other players. My townie philosophy is one of open books, I will never lie, and if I do, shoot me dead - I'm a stern believe in lynch all liars. I am the best candidate to get a power because I will become immune to the whole night-kill process, leaving better targets for the scum to NK = the vanilla townies who aren't metal. The 'fleshies'.

^ The above was basically a "vote for me" plea. (Speaking of voting, I'm doing it tomorrow for the first time! Obama 08' @_@)

If someone else claims metal today, I'm guessing they are scum. I know thats a huge case of WIFOM, but eh. If you are a fellow townie metal player, hold off as long as possible. We dont need egos clashing d1 to grab the first serum power, and we dont need the scum knowing who you are to make a mycosynth case on you.

This is one of those itchy posts all over.

1.) The "I had to claim" at this juncture is positively an untruth.
2.) The "I can't get the serum based on my play" is not a good sign.
3.) Newb card.
4.) The "synth me down the road a few days" - a few days would, of course, be more than enough to cause damage.
5.) Pre-emptive metal bashing.

We can sure get itchier real quick though:

You know what we could do, if people dont believe my claim - we could elect another person for serum usage and vote for me today (if that would make people comfortable). You will see me survive the day because I cannot be killed, and we can save any innocent townie from being killed. And then you could give me the serum d2. But then there is the issue of serum receiver dying that night...>_<

You could both give me the serum AND vote for me. I like that idea.

Suggesting wasting lynch knowing it only proves metal status is not a good idea.
Asking for the serum and the lynch is not a good idea.

Is that scummy? It denies information AND acts as a shield to keep the other scum from being hit. Yes.

After I comment on this, we get THIS response:

sigh@SpyreX

Such a fool. A fool of a Took. Or scum.

LOOK. ASSUME I AM TELLING THE TRUTH.

CAN YOU AFFORD TO LOSE SUCH A VALUABLE ASSET D1 BY MYCOing ME NOW?

Thats just foolish. Its like lynching a claimed cop or doctor d1.

OMGUS

Mycosynth: SpyreX

SpyreX wrote:
Waste the Serum AND potentially waste the lynch?

90% of all d1 lynches hit townies. I'm sorry, how is that a waste? Pontificate more plz.

1.) The "Valuable Asset" business coupled with a bad similie (it is NOT like a cop or doctor, at all).
2.) A synth vote on me - this comes into play later.
3.) A made up number, which is awesome, to try and justify telling the town to mislynch.

Now, some key nuggets of responses in the next post.

I dont disagree with point 1, but you're shooting down ideas before they even have a chance to come to fruition. I dont like this. You're not giving Ort (or myself) a chance to even talk about things without casting us in a negative light. I'm a firm believer in bonding until those bonds are broken or the "best buds" philosophy as I call it Razz Anyone can be the cold analytical sniperkid, not granting any case of WIFOM in any situation, only relying on hard lynch evidence, never trusting anything anyone says no matter the situation. Thats simply not my style and not the way I wish to go about playing most games. Especially this one.

Do you really think I'd be so bold to claim as early as I did if I was scum? If not me, then who? Everyone else is vanilla. Its a bad idea for more metalliods (if they exist) to step forward in hopes of getting the serum. I dont understand your confusion.

With that logic, a Metalloid will never get the serum because you will have Myco'd them to confirm them. That makes ZERO sense.

We can get a better scumhunting process going in the Serum/Myco stage before the lynch stage. Thats what should obvious.

I am really starting to take your hostility towards the idea of a town-aligned metalloid getting a power as just pure fear. Extreme, un-adulterated scummy fear. Your first response to my claim was to myco vote me. What does that say about you? Rationalize it however you want, I think that was a big error on your part. I'm watching you.

1.) After the "damage" had been done I explained why, very clearly, this course was not a good one.
--- The "best buds" is another transparent "trust me, with no reason"
--- The implication that my not trusting him is "bad" play is, well, just wow.
2.) We've covered this point, but again: Yes, it is obvious that a scum could claim this early with minimum risk to the team winning. (Also WIFOM, but whatever).
3.) Disagreement doesn't change the fact the play makes sense.
4.) In what was defined as a 1-week long day 1, this is clearly saying to not even scumhunt - it is obvious that a consensus will not be reached quickly, so.
5.) Because I see the benefits for scum, especially scum metal, to get the serum day 1 I am scum. This is the true start of the antagonism (this becomes really important to another huge point in this mess).

Part 2: General "Scum" Statements.

I think we should seriously consider not using the serum at all though. And by going "hurfdurf he was noble enough to say we dont need it so he should get it" is just completely ignoring what he was going for. Sure, statistically, we have a higher chance at giving the serum to a townie (even though someone has claimed and gone through great lengths to see that the serum be given to the right person COUGH COUGH) but, stating the obvious here, there is always the chance a scummer could recieve the serum.

And in a game where there is at least one metal scum (maybe?)

and one NK scumside, its too risky to give them more powers. By avoiding the whole serum issue the game basically becomes a basic setup holding a few unkillables with conditions. Another downside to avoiding the serum all together is potentially losing out on scum-sniffing abilities.

This comes not long after it was clear he wasn't getting the serum. Decision: to not give the serum to anyone.

Reasons: It 'might' go to scum.

Other Key Point: The (maybe) in regards to the scum metal. This is one of those classic "I am scum, I know who/what the scum are, yet I better be sure to not

seem

like I know too much about the setup."

I really wish I knew how many metalloids there were in the game. (Not fishing. Really.)

I'm just gonna quote that one.

I really dont like being accused of being metal scum. I know its all WIFOM (AND I'm beating a dead horse) but do you really think I would have gone to the lengths I have d1 to claim metal, in hopes of the serum going to the right person - if I was scum? Would I really take that big of a risk? SpyreX keeps saying over and over again he thinks I'm scum metal, but I'm starting to think he's scum metal. I'm currently the biggest scum threat (I post alot, I cant be killed) so his continual attacks against me make sense for him being scum. Or the scum could just be all lurking. :sadface:

WIFOM / WFIOM / WIFOM / EMO / OMGUS / "The scum are either active or lurking". Seriously.

Well this is pointless because its just the three of us posting and I'm not very confident about either of you. You're pushing me towards a pbpa and I really dont want to do one, because they're just so time consuming and I told myself I'm gonna wait until more people post.

Will the other 9 people please stand up? Mad

Note, I did ask for the PbPA. Never happened.

Lurker callout.

I refuse to accept anyone's assertion that Seraphim is actively lurking this thread based only on his/her site-wide meta. I have said this before, and your assertion to the contrary is noted as a sign you shouldn't be taken too seriously in the future in my book.

That was a start, but its the fact that everything he's said leads to not pro-town results that makes me keep my vote.

Sigh

Ok, mod, I would like to be replaced. I think I am done with mafiascum.net. Have fun everyone!

This one, with how things have went, really, extra bothers me.

We are -obviously- in all ways talking about Sera. TE comes in with this magnificent /emo and then ... better. In retrospect I'm thinking this was a very low-level psychological ploy.

I voted for Seraphim.

Still dont know who to myco...

Myco: Wall-E

Meh.

Well at this point I honestly just want this day to end so we can get an impression of whats going on tomorrow. Things are starting to stagnate. Much has been discussed about whether its worth it or not to myco someone who has claimed flesh or metal, or someone who hasn't. I came to the conclusion that I honestly dont care a whole lot who we myco -today-, I just want to see it done. And considering you have the most myco votes and are for it, there is no harm in giving you my vote. Effecient bandwagoning.

I'd also like to remind people that it is imperative that we reach a myco vote before a lynch vote. We cannot afford to waste it 1 day in the entire game. So if you are going to lynch vote, please make myco your priority and make sure you dont hit majority before the myco has.

The apparent apathy and bandwagon synth vote are both not good. However, this makes me think that Wall-E is NOT metal scum.

Porkens is irrelevant.

Are you trying to breadcrumb to some "lol random lets give the serum to porkens because he's noble kekeke!"

Seriously? Is that all you got?

Just because you keep saying we should myco and lynch me over and over again isn't going to make it happen. If you want to make a case, make a case and quit dwadling. I have done countless protown things this game and I challenge anyone to say I have not. I also challenge anyone to make a PBPA addressing the scummy things I have done. I will gladly address any concerns about my play. Keep on making blind accusations, it makes you look really good (sarcasm).

I hope more people read SpyreX as steel scum. Notice, he is the ONLY person so far to accuse me of being steel scum. He has been the ONLY person so far to continually suggest my mycosynthing and lynching.

I am scum because I'm the ONLY one doing something. Yet, CFR and I are scum buddies. Remember that.

Obviously a bad idea? I thought several people agreed together that its obviously a good idea? Are all those people wrong and you right?

An appeal to majority.

Part 3: Antagonism

Now, keep in mind TE has said over and over -I- have been the one that has been antagonistic. This, again, plays a psychological role in how he wants to be viewed.

I'm not going to post all of our exchanges, but go ahead and reread - aside from my solid belief he is metal scum I do NOT become antagonistic unless, of course, he is first. (The second-to-last statement above, is a shining example of that (and the start of the decent).

Part 4: The Smoking Gun

I'm gonna skip to the important part of this.

The day will not end without a replacement for Tuberkulos. I have a few prospekts in mind.

So basically you have no basis to undermine the random vote based on the inactivity of the recipient. So wait, what was your basis again?

Exactly Ort, thats why I call it a smoking gun.

Now that Nat has posted, they will both retract their statements concerning a new serum beneficiary. But I say the damage is done.

The arguement they were pushing was so ludicrous and illogical I dont how they thought anyone could buy it. I honestly think we have our two best candidates for myco and lynch, after all thats been said and done today

So, after the mod tells us that we ARE waiting for Tuber (this was NOT confirmed until this point) we get quick snipes from oro and TE followed by the "They'll do the logical thing at this point, but they're still scum."

Part 5: "We, the people"

I really shouldn't have to explain it. Its pretty obvious. The facts are this: We,

the town,

decided that the best way to handle the serum would be to randomize the process, and anyone trying to tinker with the results after the fact would be considered scum. You and SpyreX made the fatal mistake of doing just that. I dont know exactly what you were thinking, but my best guess is, as I have said, you both thought you could use Tuber-inactive thing to your advantage to get a quick foothold on serum usage, perhaps for a few days (you could easily cook up something to make people keep giving SpyreX the serum). You could porbably also use the serum to confirm each other in fashion. Those few days could make or break the game and the scum would know this. You risked going after the serum at such a late date in hopes pork barreling a new serum majority.

When I say you went against the 'consensus of the town' I mean exactly that. The majority voted for Tuber to recieve the serum based on the random idea that Wall-E came up with and I nurtured to fruition. Seven people voted for him to receive the serum. Dont understand your confusion there.

Ok, there's the whole "we" factor - again, another low-level psychological ploy (and appeal to the majority).
However, this whole disagreement = scum business. In my reread, three people made mention of it: TE, Wall-E and Porkens. This does not make a consensus. The fact that others voted for the serum does NOT equate directly to thinking this is a scum move.
Even if it did: doing it for the reasons we (CFR and I) did still makes sense barring the Mod holding the sun in the skies (which is what happened).

So, tl;dr:

We've got the gamut of scum bidness up there.
1.) The claim itself in this game is a good scum move.
2.) We've got some great appeals:
--- Emotion
--- Majority
--- Persecution
3.) We've got all the great mafia terms:
--- WIFOM
--- OMGUS
4.) We've got us some "newb" card
--- We also got "I've played this game a lot"
5.) We've got consistently absent logic.
--- Or "predicated" logic in the case of CFR and I.
6.) An absence of scum hunting.
7.) Active antagonism with blame-shifting
--- I AM and WILL be antagonistic with him, yet if you read he did in fact start that chain (see Persecution).

So, yes, I see plenty of reasons to give him the synth. Best part is, even if you dont trust me - you'll be hanging me.

Once I see he's reached majority for synth I will give my overall parting words and then vote for myself. At that point assume I am dead because I sure am not talking anymore.

I am -NOT- replying to TE about any of this. I put it up there so it, simply, was in one spot.