Datisi's Café [game over!]

[furtiveglance]

I'll be on later, but feeling optimistic, I think Titus will be clear or outted when I come back.

[furtiveglance]

I have returned, it seems that Titus is neither clear nor outted, right? Or are they outted?

[furtiveglance]

I retract

Did you ever claim?

[furtiveglance]

No

I retract post 2641

Ok, well that one went right over my head anyway, so nothing to worry about.

[furtiveglance]

i have a role where i can check to see if people have pts(EXCEPT THE MAFIA PT) and join them if they do

titus doesn’t have any pts

I am waiting for the mod. Technically accurate. I had a conditional action to masonize mastina if no one visited her. It resolves last in nar.

Wait I thought you were already masons. Didn't you say we could tell your partner from logs earlier, which implies you already had a mason partner?

I crumbed her as my target.

Is this something people do/would do/have seen done? I don't see the point of crumbing a mason target.

[furtiveglance]

i have a role where i can check to see if people have pts(EXCEPT THE MAFIA PT) and join them if they do

titus doesn’t have any pts

I am waiting for the mod. Technically accurate. I had a conditional action to masonize mastina if no one visited her. It resolves last in nar.

Wait I thought you were already masons. Didn't you say we could tell your partner from logs earlier, which implies you already had a mason partner?

I crumbed her as my target.

Is this something people do/would do/have seen done? I don't see the point of crumbing a mason target.

The part of her claim that would make that make any sense would be the Loyal modifier.

If you have the loyal modifier, crumbing who you will be targeting is pretty standard

But she did not actually claim to be loyal when she was told to claim, she claimed it after people asked her why she crumbed her target.

What does loyal mean? And ascetic?

[furtiveglance]

I'm alive

[furtiveglance]

Mastina, I think you're town, so I'll engage with the one point you made against me (not voting Roden or Titus). The reason I did that, is that I didn't scumread either of them on D2.

[furtiveglance]

I think Klick is town, claim sounds quite boring.

[furtiveglance]

I feel like Klick has the correct poe but is wrongly towning Malalittens

[furtiveglance]

Alternatively, they’re executing VTs so that they can have the average be lower than 75% and get an additional NK. Actually, that’s probably why.

how would they know Lukewarm was a VT

Probably an educated guess?

To be fair, the VT/PR divide in this game is quite obvious. There's players I won't believe if they claim PRs; there's players I won't believe if they claim VTs; the scum would have to be utter morons to not be able to tell which are which.

Dannflor saying that he thought mastina was wrong town being sheeped by mafia, then sheeping mastina almost instantly...

[furtiveglance]

Didn't mean to quote that, not sure what happened there

[furtiveglance]

Mastina I have this sinking gut feeling that you are town and that scum is currently playing around you specifically and pocketing you

I would love a good faith effort to sort me but that feels like not the direction you’re headed in

This post

[furtiveglance]

Also, the continuation of a scumread on Klick after RC had the same, that's a strategic choice, the read doesn't look natural.

[furtiveglance]

Now, Dannflor, do you want to talk about Klick

Anyway

I lean scum here. I find the way they developed reads throughout D1 to be a little performative? I suppose I should have done by homework to see whether Klick always does the giant list which they gradually strike out - but experiencing it for the first time I got the impression that Klick was "doing things just to do them"

I feel like there's a lot of posts that reinforce that to me too

Like 792 or 545 that are just observations? I think scum that goes unnoticed under the radar a lot are scum that are skilled at making observations without a lot of hard stances and reading through Klick's ISO I get the impression that they are doing stuff but not what they are doing? And the frankly the scum team of Dannflor/Roden/not-too-deep-deep-wolf feels... not very high-level for the amount of sorting Klick seems to want to appear to be doing?

I also find their Ircher vote, stating that they don't really have an opinion on the scum slip one way or another, a probable bus vote, but I realize I may be entering conf-bias territory with this point

What is your take on Klick?

This one, with the 'oh maybe I'm confbiased oh no' really taking the biscuit

[furtiveglance]

Gun to my head they might actually be the closest thing to a scumread I have right now but I feel like I've been actively denied information over the course of this game

How have people denied you information? By hammering before you can do whatever you wanted to do?

I'm not liking the votecount right now, if others want S_S I can go there, but that vote on me by Dannflor was egregious to say the least.

VOTE: Dannflor

[furtiveglance]

mkay

How do you want to tell your story of your journey from 'meh furtive not that sus' after mastina voted me to 'actually yeah'

[furtiveglance]

I read mastina's posts, I mostly liked them

That explains a townread on mastina

[furtiveglance]

like I feel like I have better places to push if I were scum? like I could continue with the klick push or something?

what do you actually think my motivation here is as scum for jumping on like this

Voting a town, a louder (town) player takes the attention directed at the wagon

[furtiveglance]

I read mastina's posts, I mostly liked them

That explains a townread on mastina

I meant her posts casing you

If you agree so much, and you clearly do, can you give one point against me apart from not voting Titus?

[furtiveglance]

I feel like your approach to me is very level 0 right now but I can't tell if you're just having an emotional reaction to votes

where else do you think scum are?

Something_Smart, I said that in the post I voted you. Malakittens definitely likely, JJH and PenguinPower also have potential. Everyone else I'm treating as town

[furtiveglance]

I feel like your approach to me is very level 0 right now but I can't tell if you're just having an emotional reaction to votes

where else do you think scum are?

Something_Smart, I said that in the post I voted you. Malakittens definitely likely, JJH and PenguinPower also have potential. Everyone else I'm treating as town

why do JJH and PP have potential? just absence of towniness or are there specific points of suspicion?

Absence of towniness, that's pretty much always it

[furtiveglance]

I read mastina's posts, I mostly liked them

That explains a townread on mastina

I meant her posts casing you

If you agree so much, and you clearly do, can you give one point against me apart from not voting Titus?

I don't have anything *against* you exactly. The main thing that changed is that I realized the whole reason I townlocked you was kinda bunk.

Spoiler:

Also, I did confirm with the mod that there is guaranteed to be at least one VT in the game. I assume there is also more than one VT in the game, and guessing the ratio of PR to VT is probably pretty important. I was estimating somewhere around 2:1 to 1:1-- having too many VT's makes it trivially easy to keep productivity up. Since we need to average at least 75%, if we assume 2:1 PR:VT, the PR's would need to average around 62%, which honestly isn't bad.

The tricky thing is that hitting way too high is also pretty devastating for town because we lose a lot of power. So we should probably aim for no higher than 85%, which would require a PR average of 78%.

So my (almost) completely uninformed take is that most PR's should be producing between 62-78%. Since mastina is committed to 0 and is probably roughly 10% of town's PR's, shift that up 10% for today, so 68-86%.

Does the ratio of town/mafia not matter then?

Also, what if I'm a super important PR (Power Role) that needs to use at least 100% every night?

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Ircher hasn't been on since this. It totally assumes 17/4 whereas I assumed 16/5 like other large games I've seen.

I townlocked you initially for this sequence where you were the primary person to bring attention back to the scum slip by Ircher

However, mastina quoted the below post

We shouldn't fire Ydrasse, I think they're an Employee. I'll vote Ircher for now but I might unvote if they come on and explain why they thought 17/4.

VOTE: Ircher

Uncrowned I voted someone.

and that really made me question my townlock of you because for some reason I'd just never read this post before when I was ISOing you. It reads as hedgy and not as bullish on the scum slip argument as I had initially thought you were. It almost reads like you hope you can give Ircher an out.

anyway, not really a reason to scum read you but enough to put you back in the sorting pool

so I thought it would be interesting to wagon you

Yeah if Ircher had linked to some 17/4 large games, or explained why he thought that, it might have made sense. I think I said this already somewhere

[furtiveglance]

I feel like based on Ircher's thing this game should be fairly easy, if there's only 2 mafia left that is, and I think the aggregate town consensus is in a good place. I'm happy with Ydrasse/Andres/Mastina/Uncrowned as a towncore. I just want to be alive when town wins, not posting in the dead thread. Preferred votes today are Dannflor and S_S. It's only just occured to me that I've been ignoring Fireisredsir, I townleaned him earlier, and now he's just not here, needs prodding or replacing. But nothing really to stop him being mafia with any certainty.

[furtiveglance]

I wanted to say also that I think Mastina is stretching the town consensus out of shape in a bad way, and hurting town by being such a high poster. I know that's not easy to hear, and it's probably not obvious why I'm townreading Mastina in that case but I am, not just because of the claim (which I actually think is fake but still town).

[furtiveglance]

I feel like eliminating [Dannflor, Fire, JJH, Mala, S_S] in the next five votes wins for sure. And maybe we'll get 5 votes, if the mafia kill is down to 1 now.

[furtiveglance]

I feel like eliminating [Dannflor, Fire, JJH, Mala, S_S] in the next five votes wins for sure. And maybe we'll get 5 votes, if the mafia kill is down to 1 now.

And current consensus (I think) is something like [Me, Dannflor, Fire, JJH, S_S] so yeah. If I was a different player I wouldn't mind too much about dying, but I don't want to leave the game and guess who it is in spec chat. I want to be alive at the end, I want to survive. I feel like I've played well enough to deserve that. If you analyse my play pretty bluntly, I was right on Ircher and Roden and wrong on Titus. So 2/3 of the eliminations so far I was right on. And I think I'm right on most of the unflipped players.

[furtiveglance]

not just because of the claim (which I actually think is fake but still town).

As a reminder, still not here until like 12 hours from now minimum, but this, I GOTTA comment on right now.

You know why?

I don't necessarily trust the claim but I don't feel comfortable stating what I think mastina is doing.
~Titus

I'm actually quite certain that Titus in that game at one point used furtive's almost

exact

wording. (The iso is 6 pages long and ridiculously hard to search, so I can't find it. It could've been after I was dead or before, hard to find.) Where she said, effectively:
"I think mastina is town, but lying about her claim".

And furtive, in almost the exact wording I remember Titus using, goes "I think mastina is town, but lying about her claim".

I don't believe the similarity is coincidental.

And Titus was scum that game?

So you're saying, either:

I read my scumbuddy's past scumgames to get some tips on how to act in exactly the same way as them so we all look the same as a scumteam

or:

Mafia always interact with me scumreading them in the same way e.g. "unlucky, wrong but town!"

Neither of these points are good.

[furtiveglance]

anyway maybe complacency is bad and all but i feel like with 2 scum dead already and most likely 2 remaining, this is probably just a win? i don't really mind being in the poe,

i think its reasonable enough

mastina is probably just town

i think rn i mostly want to look at some people that ive just kinda taken for granted as town and make sure i still feel okay about that, will tackle that later today

Do you think your claim with the repeat motion detect/track is sus?

[furtiveglance]

why is uncrowned town this game btw

Maybe you should vote Uncrowned.....

That would take your vote off me (pls do it pls)

[furtiveglance]

Don't really want to vote S_S anymore after recent posting.

[furtiveglance]

I think at least one of Ircher/SS if not both are scum. The timing of this slip argument right as SS gets pushed for reads is a bit sus when that argument was there all along.

i forgot i think this makes SS!scum less likely

That's a GP

[furtiveglance]

not just because of the claim (which I actually think is fake but still town).

As a reminder, still not here until like 12 hours from now minimum, but this, I GOTTA comment on right now.

You know why?

I don't necessarily trust the claim but I don't feel comfortable stating what I think mastina is doing.
~Titus

I'm actually quite certain that Titus in that game at one point used furtive's almost

exact

wording. (The iso is 6 pages long and ridiculously hard to search, so I can't find it. It could've been after I was dead or before, hard to find.) Where she said, effectively:
"I think mastina is town, but lying about her claim".

And furtive, in almost the exact wording I remember Titus using, goes "I think mastina is town, but lying about her claim".

I don't believe the similarity is coincidental.

And Titus was scum that game?
So you're saying, either:
I read my scumbuddy's past scumgames to get some tips on how to act in exactly the same way as them so we all look the same as a scumteam

or:
Mafia always interact with me scumreading them in the same way e.g. "unlucky, wrong but town!"
Neither of these points are good.

How fortunate that neither was what I was getting at!

My point is that Titus was scum

this

game.
Titus, as scum in THIS game, has a scum PT to talk to her scumbuddies in.
Titus, as scum in THIS game, would be able to convey her thoughts on me to her scumbuddies.
Titus, as scum in THIS game, would also give play advice before going down--she would give advice to her scumbuddies and try to set them up with a path to victory.

You should have zero familiarity with Multiball 2.
So you should have zero similarity in treating me the way Titus treated me in Multiball 2.

Ergo:

furtiveglance treating me the same way Titus treated me in Multiball 2 indicates that he was part of the scum PT with Titus

.

It's a scumslip.

I think this is the post of yours that I'm best responding to, although in a different post you said that I'm not addressing you directly/reaching out to you. That's true, I don't think that has value anymore, so I'm trying to prevent other players from scumreading/voting me, and trying to discredit what you're saying.

As for this post: Any player being pushed has two options regarding a player pushing them (three if you count null reading). Town reading or scum reading. I'm townreading you. Titus, as scum, townread you in a different game (which I've never read) when she was mafia. If you make it a binary choice of town/scum reading a player, and assign each one 50%, that's 25% chance that me and Titus 'treat you the same way'. It's not so unlikely, as to prove that we are buddies in a PT together. The logic you used to get here is insanely bad, so yeah I'm just highlighting that for other players.

[furtiveglance]

Fireisredsir is town

[furtiveglance]

Andres still town, Uncrowned could be mafia. I feel like they haven't kept up their towny start, and the interaction with Roden looked a bit ugly.

[furtiveglance]

not just because of the claim (which I actually think is fake but still town).

As a reminder, still not here until like 12 hours from now minimum, but this, I GOTTA comment on right now.

You know why?

I don't necessarily trust the claim but I don't feel comfortable stating what I think mastina is doing.
~Titus

I'm actually quite certain that Titus in that game at one point used furtive's almost

exact

wording. (The iso is 6 pages long and ridiculously hard to search, so I can't find it. It could've been after I was dead or before, hard to find.) Where she said, effectively:
"I think mastina is town, but lying about her claim".

And furtive, in almost the exact wording I remember Titus using, goes "I think mastina is town, but lying about her claim".

I don't believe the similarity is coincidental.

And Titus was scum that game?
So you're saying, either:
I read my scumbuddy's past scumgames to get some tips on how to act in exactly the same way as them so we all look the same as a scumteam

or:
Mafia always interact with me scumreading them in the same way e.g. "unlucky, wrong but town!"
Neither of these points are good.

How fortunate that neither was what I was getting at!

My point is that Titus was scum

this

game.
Titus, as scum in THIS game, has a scum PT to talk to her scumbuddies in.
Titus, as scum in THIS game, would be able to convey her thoughts on me to her scumbuddies.
Titus, as scum in THIS game, would also give play advice before going down--she would give advice to her scumbuddies and try to set them up with a path to victory.

You should have zero familiarity with Multiball 2.
So you should have zero similarity in treating me the way Titus treated me in Multiball 2.

Ergo:

furtiveglance treating me the same way Titus treated me in Multiball 2 indicates that he was part of the scum PT with Titus

.

It's a scumslip.

I think this is the post of yours that I'm best responding to, although in a different post you said that I'm not addressing you directly/reaching out to you. That's true, I don't think that has value anymore, so I'm trying to prevent other players from scumreading/voting me, and trying to discredit what you're saying.

As for this post: Any player being pushed has two options regarding a player pushing them (three if you count null reading). Town reading or scum reading. I'm townreading you. Titus, as scum, townread you in a different game (which I've never read) when she was mafia. If you make it a binary choice of town/scum reading a player, and assign each one 50%, that's 25% chance that me and Titus 'treat you the same way'. It's not so unlikely, as to prove that we are buddies in a PT together. The logic you used to get here is insanely bad, so yeah I'm just highlighting that for other players.

Nice try but you leave out the most damning part:

(which I actually think is fake but still town).

You are specifically calling my claim "fake, but town".

That doesn't fit into the read binary narrative you're trying to present.

That is the scumslip involved.

Titus, in a different game, said "I think mastina is town, but her claim is fake".
You, by your own confession, have no familiarity with Titus from that game.
Titus, in this game, was scum, and would communicate her thoughts to her scumbuddies.
You, in this game, said "I think mastina is town, but her claim is fake".

That isn't "I think mastina is town, but wrong on me"--you're quite correct that's a reasonable stance to take!
But it isn't what you said.
You brought my claim into it. Specifically my claim. Calling the claim fake.

And

that

is the scumslip. To call my claim town-but-fake, in the exact way Titus in a different game called it town-but-fake.

This point is so personal to you and your own experience. I understand the pattern recognition aspect of the similarity of my statement to hers, but to then envisage Titus advising me on how to play around a specific player (you), in such a large game, in a specific scenario (claiming).....this is outside the realm of reasonable speculation, and it comes from a gameview revolved around the self VS the mafia in my opinion. I don't think mafia have the capacity to conceive an idea so egocentric and paranoid. But yeah, wrong but town haha.

[furtiveglance]

JJH has only ever reached townlean status for me, on D1. Since then they've been less and less worthy of that townlean. And Malakittens....never town, yet constantly townread.

[furtiveglance]

klick

Hi
Ngl I've really not got the energy at the moment, I'm off work sick for the last couple of days
I'm not going to force myself to engage heavily when I'm not in a place to enjoy it at least a little bit
I'm aware there's other outstanding stuff for me from earlier and I'll try to get to everything

You made a point in this post about it not seeming like my reads have developed much lately. The current problem is that I feel fairly confident in the reasons I've got the players as town that I do, BUT my list of remaining available scum doesn't... feel right. I don't have a concrete reason for it in my head but Dannflor doesn't feel like scum to me. Exactly jjh/S_S doesn't seem right, they're also two players that I don't think I'd get a solid townread on easily if they were town (I do think one scum there is probably a good shout though?). So I'm in a place where one of my townreads is probably wrong and I need to identify which, but I don't like any of the choices because they all feel town to me. So it needs to be someone who is rather committed to playing in a way that reads as genuine to me, OR one of the reads themselves is a poor read.

I'll give the furtive deepwolf theory some consideration but it doesn't feel realistic on first impression

Firstly, deepwolf is very flattering.

Secondly, I have felt for many moons that Malakittens is not town. Could it be Mala/Uncrowned?

I'll backstab Uncrowned after townreading him all game, because Andres wants it and I'd like to see some momentum on a non F name. Don't get me wrong, Dannflor is still suspicious.

VOTE: Uncrowned

[furtiveglance]

The other thing is, Klick, you might want to explain your role claim

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Ydrasse

I like uncrowned, andres, SS, and maybe Ausuka for town.

Roden gets dunked on every game I’ve played with them. I won’t say don’t suspect them if you really do but make it juicy at least.

I still probably won’t be interested.

FG expl to me why I'm not town.

Have you ever cased me yet or have i missed it?

688 and 1383 have a bit. But it's not as if you're doing something insanely sus that mafia always do. You just haven't hard pushed anyone, written a post longer than a few lines or said anything that I remember. So there's a lack of drive in your play.

[furtiveglance]

I think I accidentally pressed multiquote on that RC post

[furtiveglance]

688 and 1383 have a bit. But it's not as if you're doing something insanely sus that mafia always do. You just haven't hard pushed anyone, written a post longer than a few lines or said anything that I remember. So there's a lack of drive in your play.

eh

I have also have had this recent lack of drive in lost

which i was limmed when I was trying to kill obv-scum

but I was town

so this is NAI

I think we've seen the word 'scumslip' overused recently. BUT...

Malakittens' post sounds like 'I also did this when I was town' to me. Anyone else? How does that affect the vibes?

[furtiveglance]

Acknowledging the prod

This is my birthday weekend


That being said, I have been thinking about this game and I'd like to help mastina revive the wagon on
VOTE: furtiveglance

Mastina, Ydrasse, Fire, Andre, Dannflor all town
PP and SS probably town

Means 2 scum in Furtive, Mala, Klick, Uncrowned, and I'm very much swayed by mastina's point on furtive's 2820. That might depend on whether or not Mastina actually HAS left something out of her role. Scum 100% rolecopped Mastina in n1, because Titus' fakeclaim came before Mastina's and copied the 150% cost to make it more credible

Mastina retracted a guilty on Fire. Do you think the claim is real?

[furtiveglance]

PenguinPower still potential mafia, let's not kid ourselves.

[furtiveglance]

Pagetopping this because I'm so important:

Please don't kill me I'm way too young. I still have so much more to give. I am just now getting into my stride. I am extremely desperate. I am willing to transfer you Furtcoin.

no you stole my pagetop

[furtiveglance]

why?

Just too agreeable. The only original thought you've had has arguably been a S_S scumread. But that was kind of in the ether for a while at the time.

Do you disagree?

[furtiveglance]

yes

What other original takes have you had?

[furtiveglance]

mmmm

my heart isn’t in furtive wolf but like my brain is there

I appear to be solving but something's off in the tone. Like I'm uninformed but not feeling town. Is that it?

[furtiveglance]

yes

What other original takes have you had?

wasabi is good on gyoza

Ok, so none game-related.

Do you accept that going with the flow is inherently scummy? Or do you think there's value in some town just listening and sheeping?

[furtiveglance]

I absolutely disagree that original thought is required to be town or even town indicative.

I also disagree that I'm just going with the flow,

though I don't care to argue you

...I do happen to agree with mastina's takes, however.

Ok then

[furtiveglance]

So we really aren’t looking at the game similarly mastina which is why I’m not trusting this push onto furtive. I will have to ISO there but I don’t think it’s right.

Yeah it isn't right.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: furtive glance

I just don’t really believe your scum read on me

It feels by necessity

Bare necessities

Well, I sort of have too many scumreads. More than the remaining scum slots. But that's the nature of a scumpool.

If I was a smarter player like PP or JJH or Malakittens I'd have 0 scumreads, except when Mastina wants to vote out town.

[furtiveglance]

Okay surely that post is never made by town

"Nothing wrong with my scumread on Dannflor; I just have too many scumreads."
"Which is a totally normal thing, trust me."
"Also I'm going to deflect onto more players at once than there are scum."
"Also Mastina bad because I am town"

Who have you pushed this game?

[furtiveglance]

Do you think pushing is the only form of important interaction?

I've definitely pushed you
Roden felt like a bit of a push as he was defensive but that was quite the opposite to be honest

Other than that? If you wanted serious activity out of me earlier game then why did people keep hammering immediately before the highly telegraphed periods of high activity allowed by real life circumstances

Pushing people is the most important part of the game. I think that's hard to question.

You had me as a scumread D1 but didn't vote to follow it up, it's only now that I've got some traction that you voted me
Roden yeah, that doesn't do you any favours really.

I am definitely at fault for various other players hammering, completely unfair expectation from me that you would do more in the time we've had.

[furtiveglance]

Did you honestly pay any attention whatsoever to how I interacted with Roden or did you make that statement entirely based off of my 2980

Yeah you asked Roden some questions about his role. I paid attention.

[furtiveglance]

I feel like town's biggest problem is insecurity at this point. I get the sense that I'm being punished for scumreading town in a scumpool, because of natural omgus tendencies. I don't think both mafia are on me, 1 at max, not least because Malakittens and Uncrowned are both high potential mafia. So, to Dannflor, JJH and PenguinPower, I will explain why you are in the POE.

Dannflor: RCE wasn't towny, and the comment about Mastina being wrongtown followed by sheeping them looked like a pocketing manoeuvre.

JJH: The constant refrain of "Why did you guys hammer so early" doesn't work for me, because we've generated a lot of content at times when you've been posting. You also haven't been the loudest player - saying that you haven't pushed anyone wasn't really fair but I was exaggerating the point that you haven't really put yourself out there with any attention-grabbing reads.

PenguinPower: Early voting remains suspicious chainsawing for Ircher, aside from that just never been above town because you don't put enough content out to warrant a townread. If it's a style thing, that's still on you.

I would like to be unvoted, but the main point is that you don't deserve to be townread. You don't DESERVE it.

[furtiveglance]

I hear the voices of my ancestors...they call to me. I'm close now.

I want to clear up a few things.

I think Mastina is a good player. I never said they were bad, just that their reads haven't hit mafia since D1. And I'm not mafia either. But they are playing well just by virtue of being obvtown.

I can see that I'm going to be voted out shortly. That's ok. My claim won't really change anything, you can ask for one before hammering if you want to.

I'm not satisfied with how I played this game. I don't mean my reads. I supported 1/2 votes on mafia, and opposed 1/1 vote on town. I mean my interactions with other players, especially town that I scumread. I should have been more diplomatic. I'm starting to see survivalism as a useful trait for both alignments, not just mafia. I know other players think I've refused to engage with them, and I regret that more than anything.

My final guess for mafia is [Malakittens, Uncrowned]. I think these slots will both get voted out long before ELO scenarios. I think town will win this game.

[furtiveglance]

My final guess for mafia is [Malakittens, Uncrowned].

when did you start to feel this way about me bby

When Andres started pushing you

[furtiveglance]

I'll vote for Malakittens if that one looks likely.

[furtiveglance]

So me, PP and Uncrowned would vote Mala.....anyone else, show of hands?

[furtiveglance]

sure ok

VOTE: mala

i kinda liked andres on this page a little better

Flail harder bro

sure ok

VOTE: mala

i kinda liked andres on this page a little better

Flail harder bro

do you actually think im scum

all you said when you voted me was "what are we doing? voting fire?"

that doesn't really make it sound like this is a real opinion you hold

Busy will be here.

Work am.

What are we doing? Voting fires?

VOTE: firez

Yeah I'm with Fire on this one. Let's see if Mala can get some votes

VOTE: Malakittens

[furtiveglance]

is this mala’s mafia meta

like what’s the endgame goal here for her team ig

If the team is Ircher/Titus/Mala +1, the endgame goal probably died on D3 with Titus. Mala appears to be just chilling hoping no one votes them.

[furtiveglance]

Titus could have been bussing but you would have to think they were on top of Ircher’s case very aggressively and maybe? It’s possible the Scum decided to take alternative tracks in order to not all get lumped together, but I seriously doubt all of the Scum bailed on Ircher immediately.

Okay, if Roden is Town, I would say… {Titus, RCEnigma, Uncrowned} for Scum maybe?

But I can’t push Titus in good faith on the day after they helped drive Scum into the ground, despite the fact that they’ve thrown shade in ways I didn’t find intuitive (the criticism they got about their statement that S_S / Ircher were Scum definitely resonated with me).

Btw just so we’re clear - Titus always dies today. It’s fine if we all want to express a view on mastina and fireisredsir, but we’re not executing between them first. That would be ridiculous.

I think this progression makes sense. Titus' claim didn't really add up, but before that I also gave weight to the Ircher 'freezing' stuff on D1.

[furtiveglance]

I would like to claim now that my role is confirmable but thus far I have used it to target Ausuka on N2 and Lukewarm N3 and this is incredibly frustrating to me

Klick you have a vote on you now

Might be good to confirm yourself

[furtiveglance]

I would like to claim now that my role is confirmable but thus far I have used it to target Ausuka on N2 and Lukewarm N3 and this is incredibly frustrating to me

Klick you have a vote on you now

Might be good to confirm yourself

I don't know why you're so interested in me fullclaiming

Don't be annoying for the sake of it. You obviously want to talk about your role, or you wouldn't have said what you said earlier. If you can self-confirm, just do it. Why wait?

[furtiveglance]

I don't follow that, they wanted to talk about their role, so they did. Doesn't mean they wanted to say

everything

.

Ok but Klick could just say "I don't want to full claim today, because..." or something. Saying "Idk why YOU'RE so interested"...that's obviously trying to put bad intentions on me.

[furtiveglance]

I don't follow that, they wanted to talk about their role, so they did. Doesn't mean they wanted to say

everything

.

Ok but Klick could just say "I don't want to full claim today, because..." or something. Saying "Idk why YOU'RE so interested"...that's obviously trying to put bad intentions on me.

Seriously, it's obviously antagonistic when I was being cordial. Like yes it's a game of arguments but it's made me annoyed for some reason.

[furtiveglance]

I... think I know what's going on, but I should let Klick confirm.

I want Klick to confirm as well, LOL

[furtiveglance]

I'm awake and you guys posted- oh it was mastina self-quoting

[furtiveglance]

I don't follow that, they wanted to talk about their role, so they did. Doesn't mean they wanted to say

everything

.

Ok but Klick could just say "I don't want to full claim today, because..." or something. Saying "Idk why YOU'RE so interested"...that's obviously trying to put bad intentions on me.

You've brought it up three times, you're definitely interested in it and I want to know why
After the second time of me not responding I thought it'd be clear that I don't want to fullclaim my role right now
I don't want to fullclaim my role right now because I think my role loses a fair amount of its utility if I claim it in this gamestate

Saying you can confirm yourself...it protects you from being voted. If we can get a confirm it would be really useful. If I could confirm myself I'd do it right now. I don't see any possible reason for half-claiming. 1) I have a cool role and don't want to die. Why even claim in the first place? 2) I can't think of any other reasons actually. You're being suspected and voted. If you can confirm yourself, just do it. I'm fed up of this

[furtiveglance]

Dannflor/Fire are getting townier. Andres is still town. I still believe in Malakittens and Uncrowned, that actually could be the solve.

[furtiveglance]

Klick don't ignore me!

[furtiveglance]

I want to keep my vote on Malakittens but also pressure Klick because this isn't acceptable

[furtiveglance]

I accept it and think you should probably drop it

If Klick turns out to not have a confirmable role when we do massclaim which may well be next day phase, then that's when you should refuse to drop it. Right now though, just don't

I would like to claim now that my role is confirmable but thus far I have used it to target Ausuka on N2 and Lukewarm N3 and this is incredibly frustrating to me

Klick you have a vote on you now

Might be good to confirm yourself

I don't know why you're so interested in me fullclaiming

I'm not reading too much into this, am I?

This is clearly implying that I have bad intentions.

[furtiveglance]

688 and 1383 have a bit. But it's not as if you're doing something insanely sus that mafia always do. You just haven't hard pushed anyone, written a post longer than a few lines or said anything that I remember. So there's a lack of drive in your play.

eh

I have also have had this recent lack of drive in lost

which i was limmed when I was trying to kill obv-scum

but I was town

so this is NAI

I think we've seen the word 'scumslip' overused recently. BUT...

Malakittens' post sounds like 'I also did this when I was town' to me. Anyone else? How does that affect the vibes?

Hammer encouragement post

[furtiveglance]

688 and 1383 have a bit. But it's not as if you're doing something insanely sus that mafia always do. You just haven't hard pushed anyone, written a post longer than a few lines or said anything that I remember. So there's a lack of drive in your play.

eh

I have also have had this recent lack of drive in lost

which i was limmed when I was trying to kill obv-scum

but I was town

so this is NAI

I think we've seen the word 'scumslip' overused recently. BUT...

Malakittens' post sounds like 'I also did this when I was town' to me. Anyone else? How does that affect the vibes?

Hammer encouragement post

Also a self-quote post!

[furtiveglance]

We need a hammer hero!

[furtiveglance]

I think I heard Malakittens say they were Inspector Clipboard

[furtiveglance]

Why would you hammer that Malakittens was obvious town.....now we have to sit in twilight with the guilt.

[furtiveglance]

Friendly neighbour?

[furtiveglance]

It's either Uncrowned or Penguin for me.

VOTE: Uncrowned

[furtiveglance]

I guess it could be uncrowned

Furtive why do you suspect him so hard again

Poe really. I don't think it's anyone but PP or Uncrowned, I'll make a post explaining it shortly.

[furtiveglance]

Since Scum can’t multi-task, Klick is cleared.

Unless there are multiple scum left.

Yeah it's unlikely that Ircher deliberately used the wrong numbers to me, but possible. I wouldn't have expected 17/4 usually, but I guess the extra kills balance it a bit.

[furtiveglance]

Assuming Klick is some kind of neighbouriser then, and therefore not the Mafia (Roleblocker of some kind), that leaves the following:

Andresvmb

Dannflor

fireisredsir

jjh927

Penguin_Power

Something_Smart

Uncrowned

I'm going to use Malakittens' play and infer some things based on what I'd expect them to do (Titus seemed a bit more bussy so less reliable and Ircher didn't really say much).

Andres town for 74, 181, 1600, 2939, 2989, 3138, 3220.

Dannflor town for 184. Fire town for 2810, 2939, 3046.

S_S town for 2888.

So that leaves JJH, P_P and Uncrowned as possible mafia through Mala's interactions with them.

I think JJH has done enough to clear themself based on their own posts about Mala. 616/618 and 3124.

And that leaves PP and Uncrowned.

[furtiveglance]

I guess it could be uncrowned

Furtive why do you suspect him so hard again

Haha yeah that

standing emoji:

penguinpower
uncrowned

how dare you

We really should just kill this slot. Like now.

no sir

Secondly, I have felt for many moons that Malakittens is not town. Could it be Mala/Uncrowned?

I'll backstab Uncrowned after townreading him all game, because Andres wants it and I'd like to see some momentum on a non F name. Don't get me wrong, Dannflor is still suspicious.

VOTE: Uncrowned

ooo interesting

furtive does deserve to die tho for betraying me ngl now that I think about it

Stuff like this, doesn't seem to be taking the game seriously or thinking about who it is.

[furtiveglance]

Massclaim should be a huge thing rn because scum can't multitask, the last scum is known to be a roleblocker, and there are lots of power roles floating about

Happy to do this

[furtiveglance]

Fire goes first in mass claim

I like this, very ritualistic. Like you're a cult elder telling him to sacrifice himself

[furtiveglance]

public info about the setup

~ players are not able to multitask unless otherwise specified, with one exception: if a non-town player has the ability to use more than one kill in the same night, the same player may carry out more than one kill.

Yeah the last mafia could be the 'otherwise specified' right?

[furtiveglance]

5 to hammer right?

I'll E-2 this.

VOTE: Penguin_Power

[furtiveglance]

I do like this game though, can we do a fast night if we vote wrong?

Also I'll bring it off E-1 because more discussion time.

UNVOTE: PenguinPower

[furtiveglance]

You all are acting like idiots.

Fine. Massclaim.

I’m a forum mafia player (tracker) base 15% cost + 10% for each subsequent shot. I’ve been banking productivity and used my first short last night in Andre (didn’t go anywhere) since if we’re in 17:4, it’s basically a cop shot. This is why I’ve been skeptical of fire’s productivity claim since the original claim as I can get three full tracks out for less than three of his shots.

Piss off.

You're a Tracker. Cost 15%, that sounds dirt cheap. And you waited until Night 4 to track someone?

[furtiveglance]

You all are acting like idiots.

Fine. Massclaim.

I’m a forum mafia player (tracker) base 15% cost + 10% for each subsequent shot. I’ve been banking productivity and used my first short last night in Andre (didn’t go anywhere) since if we’re in 17:4, it’s basically a cop shot. This is why I’ve been skeptical of fire’s productivity claim since the original claim as I can get three full tracks out for less than three of his shots.

Piss off.

I think the 15% + 10% kind of checks out, seeing as BBT and Nero had quite low costs. But I don't get the not tracking or the choice of target. Andres wasn't a UTR exactly but not a common scumread either, and more importantly I don't think you (PP) ever mentioned scumreading them. So why Andres?

[furtiveglance]

You all are acting like idiots.

Fine. Massclaim.

I’m a forum mafia player (tracker) base 15% cost + 10% for each subsequent shot. I’ve been banking productivity and used my first short last night in Andre (didn’t go anywhere) since if we’re in 17:4, it’s basically a cop shot.

This is why I’ve been skeptical of fire’s productivity claim since the original claim as I can get three full tracks out for less than three of his shots.

Piss off.

I'm not sure why Datisi would put a low-cost full Tracker and a higher-cost Lazy Tracker in the same setup. It doesn't add up in terms of setup design.

[furtiveglance]

uncrowned acted last night

TEA

[furtiveglance]

Fire, Klick and PP are all claiming power roles then. Petapan, BBT, Nero, Vivax, Roden, Ydrasse and Mastina are dead power roles (7). Total that makes 10 power roles in a 21 player game (yeah I know it's kind of PR madness). I don't think Uncrowned is a town PR, I think that visit is a guilty result. I don't think if town has 17 players that 11 of them would be PR (even in this setup). It seems kind of mad.

[furtiveglance]

So it’s either furtive or Uncrowned right? That’s kind of juicy. I also felt like Uncrowned’s direct appeal to me at the end there yesterday was genuine, if I’m being honest.

I don’t think I’ve said that Uncrowned is just laying low. You can make that accusation of so many different players. The point I did make is that while voting for Ircher for the slip, they shaded basically every Town that’s flipped (and me for that matter), and put a lot of focus on getting Roden executed,

even ending up voting Roden at the end of D1 and not being able to find a way back onto Ircher on time.

i don't really get this

scumcrowned never needs to vote take vote off ircher i don't think there's a world after what transpired that ircher wasn't the d1 elim

unless you really believe i had enough influence to get roden miselimmed over ircher d1 and still think that ircher would be let off the hook and survive for more days after that

seems a bit contrived to me but that's all wine so do with it what you will

and ok @furtive

idk if i believe it but i don't think you're the elim today so it's chill

let's get mala or S_S!

This is just excusing unvoting mafia D1 by saying he doesn't need to as mafia. I don't really see this as genuine.

[furtiveglance]

I'm not unvoting unless the claim is good

VOTE: Uncrowned

[furtiveglance]

I'm not unvoting unless the claim is good

VOTE: Uncrowned

I don't think Uncrowned is a town PR, I think that visit is a guilty result.

I’m going to quote this and say



That is all.

Lol

[furtiveglance]

Patience, my dear. Patience.

Can't wait for Uncrowned to get on anyway

[furtiveglance]

cool

my role is "discord mod", for 5% (with 5% extra each additional use) I can neighbourise someone

for 50%, I can get myself mod confirmed to be aligned with town, which I have in fact done

multiple alive players in this game know im conf town, and I can still add more people in.

this is also why I told ydrasse to target me after she caught out Titus

so yeah, PoE looking quite slim

wow, someone confirm this ASAP

UNVOTE: Uncrowned

[furtiveglance]

I'm not unvoting unless the claim is good

VOTE: Uncrowned

I don't think Uncrowned is a town PR, I think that visit is a guilty result.

I’m going to quote this and say



That is all.

Lol

Yeah yeah I see it now.

[furtiveglance]

ig furtive scum would explain the mastina death

really.

[furtiveglance]

Fire, Klick and PP are all claiming power roles then. Petapan, BBT, Nero, Vivax, Roden, Ydrasse and Mastina are dead power roles (7). Total that makes 10 power roles in a 21 player game (yeah I know it's kind of PR madness). I don't think Uncrowned is a town PR, I think that visit is a guilty result. I don't think if town has 17 players that 11 of them would be PR (even in this setup). It seems kind of mad.

Do people think 11/17 PR is likelier than 10/17?

[furtiveglance]

You all are acting like idiots.

Fine. Massclaim.

I’m a forum mafia player (tracker) base 15% cost + 10% for each subsequent shot. I’ve been banking productivity and used my first short last night in Andre (didn’t go anywhere) since if we’re in 17:4, it’s basically a cop shot. This is why I’ve been skeptical of fire’s productivity claim since the original claim as I can get three full tracks out for less than three of his shots.

Piss off.

This is the least believable claim for me. I'm struggling as to who else could be mafia, maybe S_S if Titus went completely rogue with the bussing.

[furtiveglance]

Given how it has played out...yes.

Feel free to claim next.

Vanilla Waiter

[furtiveglance]

You all are acting like idiots.

Fine. Massclaim.

I’m a forum mafia player (tracker) base 15% cost + 10% for each subsequent shot. I’ve been banking productivity and used my first short last night in Andre (didn’t go anywhere) since if we’re in 17:4, it’s basically a cop shot. This is why I’ve been skeptical of fire’s productivity claim since the original claim as I can get three full tracks out for less than three of his shots.

Piss off.

This is the least believable claim for me. I'm struggling as to who else could be mafia, maybe S_S if Titus went completely rogue with the bussing.

lol - I don't claim a clearing roll as scum with 9p left.

Was anyone scumreading Andres though? I just feel like I would track every night

[furtiveglance]

Was anyone scumreading Andres though? I just feel like I would track every night

I did so at the advice of counsel. And, as stated before, tracker is much stronger with less scum which is what I was waiting for. I don't tend to be voted out early, and I am rarely nightkilled early. Seemed like a safe bet in a PR heavy setup.

I feel like I've said this and you are ignoring it.

Ok, I do see that one remaining mafia would always visit a nightkill. That's what I didn't realise before.

[furtiveglance]

I pushed for an Andres check maybe it was my b but I had some lingering suspicion, as did Uncrowned

Wish I'd been in a hood this game, sounds great

[furtiveglance]

I think it's time for one of three things;
A. Massclaim
B. Fire to claim n3/n4 results
C. Me to finally stop putting in 100% and use my nght action

Yeah excited for this claim then

[furtiveglance]

Just to consolidate then:

Uncrowned is definitely town (cleared by Dannflor and PP)
Andres is definitely town (cleared by PP)
Klick pretty much definitely town (no multitasking thing(?))
PP pretty much definitely town (wouldn't fakeclaim in a hood and ask for track targets)
Fire pretty much definitely town (wouldn't guess a result on Uncrowned)

Someone explain why Klick is clear again

[furtiveglance]

I get that I'm in the middle of everyone's poe. I'll try to rectify this. Don't hammer me before I wake up (about 7 hours time).

[furtiveglance]

Ok I feel pretty confident that voting S_S ends the game then. Obviously happy to checked/otherwise PRed on tonight. I just want to be alive when we win.

VOTE: Something_Smart

[furtiveglance]

Gonna be mad if it’s s_s and I was swayed away from tracking.

We'll find out soon enough

[furtiveglance]

100%

VOTE: furtiveglance

Ow

I don't want to accept it D:

[furtiveglance]

ig furtive scum would explain the mastina death

That wasn't even me BRUH

[furtiveglance]

I would never betray Ircher and Malakittens if I was mafia....think about it guysssss arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[furtiveglance]

The pain. It hurts. Just make it quick. I'll look for another job I guess.

[furtiveglance]

What if Ircher was lying about 4 mafia? Does that make it make sense?

[furtiveglance]

What if Ircher was lying about 4 mafia? Does that make it make sense?

Does it make sense if 1 PR claim is fake? Or is the discrepancy too big?

[furtiveglance]

No, it makes even less sense if a PR claim is fake

What makes it make sense then?

[furtiveglance]

Okay, I think the most logical conclusion is that someone gave an amount lower than -30%. Yeah, a negative number. Because we're literally at a point here where the numbers could only logically have been fudged by one individual, and they can't have been fudged that much without them giving a literal NEGATIVE value for production.

Someone is actively sabotaging our cafe work

Are you saying that 5 mafia or a third party still doesn't make it add up?

[furtiveglance]

Okay, I think the most logical conclusion is that someone gave an amount lower than -30%. Yeah, a negative number. Because we're literally at a point here where the numbers could only logically have been fudged by one individual, and they can't have been fudged that much without them giving a literal NEGATIVE value for production.

Someone is actively sabotaging our cafe work

Are you saying that 5 mafia or a third party still doesn't make it add up?

Yes. I am. If we assume 5 regular mafia, so 2 alive that don't count on productivity, AND we make the generous assumption that Ydrasse acted last night (which I personally doubt) then we still average no less than 86%. Without the exception of a role designed specifically to do so, mafia shouldn't have any effect on productivity.

There are three possible scenarios;
1. Multiple town players have lied. I think this is basically impossible
2. Mafia got a second kill for a reason other than productivity. I think this is extremely unlikely.
3. There exists a role that is actively sabotaging production and can give negative values for the average.

Scenario 3 means there's a second scum, unless the Roleblocker has 2 OP abilities.

[furtiveglance]

What else would you call the guy stealing money from the cash register but a traitor in this situation

Depressed employee or something

[furtiveglance]

I don't even know if I'm voting correctly. But I can assure people I'm neither mafia nor the mysterious third party meddler.

Can we do S_S instead?

[furtiveglance]

SS has been involved in the major discussions but has totally fencesat when it came to voting and actually moving momentum around

whereas you and Dannflor were both pretty important in the move to Malakittens in the last day phase, and that's just that day


The pool should absolutely be us 4, at any rate

I'm fine to be in the pool. It's just that I feel more worthy of survival than certain others *ahem*

[furtiveglance]

Yoooo guess we're third party hunting now

Klick, Uncrowned, and Andre are still confirmed on the basis that the third party is surely capable of making kills and so Klick's confirmed role, Uncrowned's conftown status, and Andre being tracked nowhere on a night where logically the 3p must have made a kill all hold up.

So it's you or Dannflor.......

[furtiveglance]

I'm going for Dannflor. You might think why wouldn't they kill Uncrowned/PP earlier but....I think JJH is townier for his posting regarding the mechanics/kills. Seems genuinely curious

VOTE: Dannflor

[furtiveglance]

No, it's you or Dannflor

We're agreed then.

[furtiveglance]

How did Fire get the 'positive result' on Uncrowned? Was that just a lucky guess?

Maybe this thing told them:

recharging roleblocker - during the night, target a player. assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether that player has attempted to use an ability that night. if they have, you will roleblock them, and you won't be able to use this ability the next night. if they haven't, you may use this ability again the next night.

[furtiveglance]

Ah, Titus had two nights alive so probably rolecopped. Checks out

Yeah or that

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Furtive

I did a little preamble before mine.

[furtiveglance]

fuck me i literally had fire pegged from early D1 lmao knew i should just trust the gut

nice one Untowned. What does your gut say now?

[furtiveglance]

if I have to spell it out

fire and mastina are both most likely to be 3p shots

and both point towards you

mastina for obvious reasons and fire because he said he wanted to check you if SS flipped town

Idk how I should respond to this. Fire was obviously a 3p kill, and Lukewarm probably was unless it's gated in some way. Why do you think Mastina was 3p kill instead of Ydrasse?

[furtiveglance]

I think if I were scum I would've tried a lot harder to use the neighborhood to pocket PP/Uncrowned/Ydrasse but ymmv

I wasn't there so I don't know how many miles you racked up

[furtiveglance]

wait...

fire guessed that i acted on the night I mod-confirmed myself, but that action would have been blocked, correct?

either that's a really fucking lucky guess, or he could have been told in a Scum PT that I was planning on acting, because I did announce to Dann, PP and Ydrasse that I would be using my ability. obviously the other two are town, so... that could've been done to soft confirm himself as his claim? i don't see how he would've been that confident in announcing it otherwise? wtf

Yeah if Datisi is really evil it could be Dann + JJH as mafia + 3p but I believe the Ircher slip and 6 scum seems like too much

[furtiveglance]

wait where did jjh come from in that equation lmao

Been a while since I did maths

[furtiveglance]

i have no idea how to hunt for a 3p gonna be completely honest lmao

obviously it's pretty much impossible to see scum!dann here based on play but how do you even go about analysing that from the lens of a 3p?

furtive probably most fits the bill here, i guess? idk

I was aware that you scumread me previously ya know. I feel like you're wearing rose-tinted glasses with Dannflor, like you townread them so you neighbourised them so you townread them more now...

[furtiveglance]

Yeah, gotta completely switch tactics. Another reason I don't want to rush.

In a word, I'll personally be looking for oppprtunism

You're not clear either mate

[furtiveglance]

I'm not pretending to be

Yeah, gotta completely switch tactics. Another reason I don't want to rush.

In a word, I'll personally be looking for oppprtunism

Yeah just something off about this....giving me a headache

[furtiveglance]

Is it because you're worried about the opportunism you have displayed in this game

so much yeah

No you were looking a bit Lamist there my friend

[furtiveglance]

You've pretty visibly been the most survivalistic but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt until a full review because circumstances have given you the most reason to be

Blatant lie, I clearly had specific voting preferences throughout the game but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt

[furtiveglance]

You've pretty visibly been the most survivalistic but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt until a full review because circumstances have given you the most reason to be

Ah, I think this is correct. furtive was basically begging for their life yesterday.

Then we disagree about survivalistic as a word. Take D4 for instance, I wanted Malakittens specifically. I didn't just hop on any votes.

[furtiveglance]

Spoiler: d4

Gun to my head they might actually be the closest thing to a scumread I have right now but I feel like I've been actively denied information over the course of this game

How have people denied you information? By hammering before you can do whatever you wanted to do?

I'm not liking the votecount right now, if others want S_S I can go there, but that vote on me by Dannflor was egregious to say the least.

VOTE: Dannflor

klick

Hi
Ngl I've really not got the energy at the moment, I'm off work sick for the last couple of days
I'm not going to force myself to engage heavily when I'm not in a place to enjoy it at least a little bit
I'm aware there's other outstanding stuff for me from earlier and I'll try to get to everything

You made a point in this post about it not seeming like my reads have developed much lately. The current problem is that I feel fairly confident in the reasons I've got the players as town that I do, BUT my list of remaining available scum doesn't... feel right. I don't have a concrete reason for it in my head but Dannflor doesn't feel like scum to me. Exactly jjh/S_S doesn't seem right, they're also two players that I don't think I'd get a solid townread on easily if they were town (I do think one scum there is probably a good shout though?). So I'm in a place where one of my townreads is probably wrong and I need to identify which, but I don't like any of the choices because they all feel town to me. So it needs to be someone who is rather committed to playing in a way that reads as genuine to me, OR one of the reads themselves is a poor read.

I'll give the furtive deepwolf theory some consideration but it doesn't feel realistic on first impression

Firstly, deepwolf is very flattering.

Secondly, I have felt for many moons that Malakittens is not town. Could it be Mala/Uncrowned?

I'll backstab Uncrowned after townreading him all game, because Andres wants it and I'd like to see some momentum on a non F name. Don't get me wrong, Dannflor is still suspicious.

VOTE: Uncrowned

I'll vote for Malakittens if that one looks likely.

I want to keep my vote on Malakittens but also pressure Klick because this isn't acceptable

There was also a massive Andres wagon which I didn't vote on

[furtiveglance]

Looking back at 3001 in particular, "You can ask for my claim before hammering" kinda indicates the purpose of that post was to continue to survive. Why wasn't the VT claim made there and then? Not claiming right there indicates the intention to survive beyond making that post, which kinda invalidates the whole resigned to death vibe it was going for

I pretty much did claim VT, I said my rr wouldn't change anything.

[furtiveglance]

So why didn't you

Just word choice, it wasn't meant to be ambiguous or a setup to a fakeclaim

[furtiveglance]

Ugh mastina being dead almost always points to furtive. They were sufficiently convinced of their case against {fire, furtive} that I think furtive doesn’t have a choice but to shoot that shot. If I had to guess.

It wasn't me!

[furtiveglance]

I don't even know if I'm voting correctly. But I can assure people I'm neither mafia nor the mysterious third party meddler.

Can we do S_S instead?

This reaction from furtive is just weird. You’ll notice that jjh is just saying that we can’t rule out the presence of a 3P. But furtive assumes the existence of a 3P (though narrows them down to a “meddler”). If I had to guess, I would say this is a bit of a giveaway.

There was a disparity between the numbers and the kills

[furtiveglance]

what led to you voting S_S furtive

because you accused me of not looking solvey (which was true but obviously done for a purpose) but you seem to have practically zero trajectory on the slot, even in terms of interactions

you go from town leaning him to "yeah, i think voting S_S here ends the game"

I didn't think it was anyone else after all the claims

[furtiveglance]

Pls don't kill me I'm not survivalist pls don't kill me

[furtiveglance]

Pls don't kill me I'm not survivalist pls don't kill me

Pagetopping this T_T

[furtiveglance]

Time to put myself out of my own misery

VOTE: furtiveglance

[furtiveglance]

I don't know, but think so

[furtiveglance]

I didn't kill Mastina!

[furtiveglance]

Good game, first time being serial killer. If I could change I obviously wouldn't have killed Lukewarm (I thought mafia would kill Ydrasse) and I would have killed Uncrowned over Fire. I just knew if Fire/PP were both investigators one at least would check me.

I'm a bit surprised by 11/16 town being power roles. I think the mafia extra kill thing might need to be tweaked a bit, since mafia never had 2 kills in a night which was meant to balance the town power. But I liked the flavour, mechanics were fun and different. Obviously a lot of thought went into the setup, appreciate the invite

[furtiveglance]

i had been waiting to make a "tp/lo on me" joke ALL GAME and then the pgo never got into play >_>

If it makes you feel better, I don't get it.

[furtiveglance]

links:

main thread ~ viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89922
mod pt ~ viewtopic.php?f=90&t=89923
inspectors pt ~ viewtopic.php?f=90&t=89924
dead/spec pt ~ viewtopic.php?f=90&t=89925
ic hood pt ~ viewtopic.php?f=90&t=89926
nero cain pt ~ viewtopic.php?f=90&t=89927
review pt ~ viewtopic.php?f=90&t=89839

the inspectors pt has been released, and i've also edited in and released the review pt

thanks again to everyone involved with the game!

I feel bad for killing Fire after reading that Inspector PT. I should have considered that 'I know you didn't act' was just 'I roleblocked you'. It would have been interesting to see town implode if Fire claimed that Dannflor acted.

I see that a lot of thought went into balancing the Town Power Roles, but I still think there were 1 or 2 too many, and some should have cost more per use for more mafia kills.

Overall, fun game