Datisi's Café [game over!]

[PenguinPower]

eurgh am i being pocketed by PP

Yes.

[fireisredsir]

Okay but your ranking has no outright scum reads, me at neutral, and jjh at uncertain

Like, there’s no urgency behind fixing that

I feel like as town your top priority would be sorting me and jjh but I don’t really see that?

Like mechanically you are doing the work of ISOing and sorting but I feel like your heart isn’t in it exactly? Like you are sorting but not reaching any solid conclusions. Which is fine… I’m often uncertain too, but I don’t really get the sense you feel like you need or even particularly want to fix that

not really game related but reading this was wild bc i feel like ive written this post word for word before in other contexts

am i dannflor

i never knew

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: andres

Like this slot hasn’t read my posts but comes out of VLA to vote me when a wagon builds?

You’re damn right I made you an even wagon.

[PenguinPower]

btw was there a reason we aren't killing fire today i forgot

No idea. Furtive/fire are my preference but I’m sheeping you rn.

[Andresvmb]

I think people are generally overestimating the value of "scum would never bus with 2 scum left"

scum bus for no rhyme or reason

I was telling you what I would not do here as Scum. I can’t say what other Scum would do. I am not as confident in my ability to win at Endgame as Scum (in fact, I have lost more than a few games as the last Scum standing with everything on the line), mostly because I struggle with how to maneuver my past transgressions. So I would much rather have my Partner be well positioned for a win at the end and me take a fall if I have to. Which is why I would never stop a mis-execution that the Scum Team absolutely needs today. I don’t think I would care all that much about looking convincing or being on the right side of an argument about a Town player. But you know, wine and all that.

[Dannflor]

fire why'd you switch

[fireisredsir]

looking back at klick's progression onto andres its pretty bad imo

like again he has a strong townread all game with very little justification presented and is willing to drop it like immediately after the barest of reasons

and that on its own is ok whatever, but in combination with his statement earlier about how he felt confident in all of his townreads? it doesn't really match up

[fireisredsir]

fire why'd you switch

andres felt towny here and with that in mind i was looking back and klick's progression stood out as not super believable

[Dannflor]

here's the thing

if mastina is wrong on furtive

I think scum are very likely to make up a reason to town read furtive and vote elsewhere

because generally mastina gets what she wants. it's just a matter of sussing out who genuinely town reads furtive and who just wants the cred

also assuming furtive is town which maybe I should reevaluate that again

[fireisredsir]

You made a point in this post about it not seeming like my reads have developed much lately. The current problem is that I feel fairly confident in the reasons I've got the players as town that I do, BUT my list of remaining available scum doesn't... feel right.

like this was the reason he gave for not having really developed his reads at all in a while

and idk i just don't really believe that given he has presented very little to justify those townreads (and he doesn't just say that he's confident in the reads, he's confident in the REASONS), and that a couple times now when it's convenient to do so he drops those reads really easily

[fireisredsir]

here's the thing

if mastina is wrong on furtive

I think scum are very likely to make up a reason to town read furtive and vote elsewhere

because generally mastina gets what she wants. it's just a matter of sussing out who genuinely town reads furtive and who just wants the cred

also assuming furtive is town which maybe I should reevaluate that again

i think this is especially true bc she wants one of me/furtive

like scum probably doesn't have to do a whole lot here, which is part of why im trying to look at people who are not trying to disrupt things too much

[Dannflor]

VOTE: klick

i gotta go but i also feel andres has been towny here I was just interested in what fire would say

also idk I keep going back over titus/fire and I don't super see fire scum from that alone

the claim is probably the scummiest thing about him but I don't think it's damning

[Datisi]

vote count 4.08

with 12 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 4 ends in (expired on 2022-10-14 01:15:00).

firing

Malakittens [3]:

furtiveglance, Uncrowned, jjh927

Klick [2]:

fireisredsir, Dannflor

Andresvmb [2]:

Klick, PenguinPower

furtiveglance [2]:

mastina

Uncrowned [1]:

Andresvmb

fireisredsir [1]:

Malakittens

not voting [2]:

Ydrasse, Something_Smart

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[furtiveglance]

I'm awake and you guys posted- oh it was mastina self-quoting

[furtiveglance]

I don't follow that, they wanted to talk about their role, so they did. Doesn't mean they wanted to say

everything

.

Ok but Klick could just say "I don't want to full claim today, because..." or something. Saying "Idk why YOU'RE so interested"...that's obviously trying to put bad intentions on me.

You've brought it up three times, you're definitely interested in it and I want to know why
After the second time of me not responding I thought it'd be clear that I don't want to fullclaim my role right now
I don't want to fullclaim my role right now because I think my role loses a fair amount of its utility if I claim it in this gamestate

Saying you can confirm yourself...it protects you from being voted. If we can get a confirm it would be really useful. If I could confirm myself I'd do it right now. I don't see any possible reason for half-claiming. 1) I have a cool role and don't want to die. Why even claim in the first place? 2) I can't think of any other reasons actually. You're being suspected and voted. If you can confirm yourself, just do it. I'm fed up of this

[furtiveglance]

Dannflor/Fire are getting townier. Andres is still town. I still believe in Malakittens and Uncrowned, that actually could be the solve.

[jjh927]

Okay, maybe I ought to spell some things out like I was gonna on day 3 after giving people a bit of time and trying to see if anyone would try and rescue Titus if I gave a possible out. Titus' rolecop flip was also invaluable addition to my understanding here.

If Fire is scum, Mastina is town. Mastina declared a guilty on Fire shortly after the guilty on Titus.
If Fire is town, the result is accurate and Mastina didn't act successfully on day 1 or day 2. Key word, "successfully". This word was missed out of Fire's initial claim, so if Mastina was scum and dialled back the guilty to a no result in response to the claim, she'd potentially have been sacrificing her ability to win thde 1v1 in the event that the role did not check "successful" actions and instead checked just for the attempt. Furthermore, I don't think scum!Mastina would attempt a guilty on day 3 anyway. Therefore, if Fire is town, Mastina is also town.

Therefore Mastina is town, independent of Fire's alignment.

So where does that leave Fire? Now we can certainly say Mastina got a no-result on Fire on N2. If we ignore the "why" for a second, let's think about it this way- Fire's claim was an ideal reaction to Mastina's claim. Therefore, if Fire is scum, scum had significant information on Mastina's role.

Now, Titus has since flipped rolecop, which makes things a lot clearer where the information would have to come from. I will assume that Mastina got rolecopped on N1.

Let's go back to the "why" the action failed. Mastina was roleblocked. No question in my mind; Fire is for sure not an unclaimed ascetic or similar, and if a rolestopper targeted Fire that is functionally equivalent to Mastina getting roleblocked as it would probably have been done to stop her specifically.

Now then, final stretch- if scum know Mastina's role, and that she was roleblocked in Night 2 (or otherwise could not get a result on Fire), then why did Fire make the claim he did? A scum!Fire with the information to make a complex fakeclaim that perfectly fit under the circumstances of Mastina's 'guilty', would have known a simple fakeclaim would suffice. Which is to say, Fire could have claimed VT and it would be equally plausible mechanically. The actual claim itself is verifiable to an extent, which is why a claim like VT would have been vastly superior for scum in this situation.

The logical conclusion is that Fire trueclaimed, or is one better and is a full tracker or similar. In either case, scum!Fire wouldn't have targeted Mastina on night 2 if she was being roleblocked, and it's not the most likely N1 either if she was getting rolecopped. Again- in that scenario, why not trueclaim the targets? The response to the guilty didn't need to be a counter guilty. Also, Fire claiming to target Mastina on both nights is probably the weirdest thing about the whole claim and has gained suspicion based on D2 behaviour. For completeness, before anyone argues that he might have targeted someone else who subsequently died, note that if he was scum then he would not have tracked someone who was a scum nightkill and so there would be a living person who could verify if he stated a real target in that situation.

Therefore I must assume that Fire not only trueclaimed role, but also did indeed target Mastina both nights, which would make 0 sense whatsoever as scum given the conclusion that Mastina was likely rolecopped N1 and roleblocked N2.

In conclusion, both Mastina and Fire are mechanically town.

[jjh927]

Other people don't get essays since that was mostly written on a train journey 3 hours ago and now I'm posting in a quick break from work so probably won't get much further than this.

I think Dannflor is the living player who had the best Titus scumread
Ydrasse obviously did good there too

That's probably all there is to the next tier of high townreads

[Klick]

I've read and agree with 3191 and also think it makes jjh rather likely town

[furtiveglance]

Klick don't ignore me!

[Klick]

Saying you can confirm yourself...it protects you from being voted. If we can get a confirm it would be really useful. If I could confirm myself I'd do it right now. I don't see any possible reason for half-claiming. 1) I have a cool role and don't want to die. Why even claim in the first place? 2) I can't think of any other reasons actually. You're being suspected and voted. If you can confirm yourself, just do it. I'm fed up of this

I am not going to claim my role today. I do not need to justify this to you. I am fed up with you repeatedly pushing this with incomplete information.

[Klick]

Yes I am in a bad mood, how did you know

[Ydrasse]

i’m
going to be blunt

i feel like roles don’t matter anymore unless you can get either a confirmed guilty on someone surefire or you can sure fire clear yourself other than that we should just all be like. keeping power over what it needs to be for 1 kill

[Ydrasse]

like it’s too late today for a mass claim but like why don’t we just play this as mountainous lol

[furtiveglance]

I want to keep my vote on Malakittens but also pressure Klick because this isn't acceptable