Mini 703 - A Roccisi Autumn - Over
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chuckrock Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 102
- Joined: October 5, 2008
- Location: Houston, TX
Yep, darkdude, I've made three posts after this one.
I don't have a strong opinion on anyone and I don't want to bandwagon rage. I want to see more. Especially from Puta, tubby and gorckat.
As I mentioned, the role claim was foolish. It's on my "remember that list."
A no-lynch is not beneficial to the town, as far as I've seen, so that seems hinke also.
Aside from that I have nothing more to add to the already mentioned information. This aren't issues I'm willing to throw a vote out for at this time.-
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Puta Puta Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 161
- Joined: November 1, 2008
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TDC Mafia Scum
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4322
- Joined: January 5, 2007
- Location: Middle of the road
Psst. The poetry forum is overPuta Puta wrote:Nought's had, all's spent,
Where our desire is got without content;
'Tis safer to be that which we destroy
Than by destruction dwell in doubtful joy.
Deep dig for the answer you seek.there. You're in the mafia forum, just fyiI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
This unsupported statement brought to you by the Anti-Supported Statement League of the United States and Territories (ASSLUST)-
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Korts Luddite
- Luddite
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- Posts: 5752
- Joined: January 1, 2008
- Location: HUN BUD
Massclaim may be considered a valid strategy for beginners. I've seen RL mafia played so, although it usually ends up being a game of "follow the cop". Considering his join date, it's more than reasonable to assume that Wombat doesn't know the MS meta.Rage wrote:
How?Korts wrote:Wombat seems earnest in his newbness.
You jumped on a blatant scumtell, which is by itself valid, but the problem I have is that you actually pushed for an immediate claim on Wombat's behalf. From a scum perspective, I can see a clear motivation for that (draw a power role claim or otherwise narrow down the pool of possible power roles). From a town one, not so much.Rage wrote:
Again, how?Korts wrote:Rage, however, acted very aggressively opportunistic.
Considering meta outside MS, it's justified.Rage wrote:1) You're giving Wombat wiggle room by handing him the Newbie Card
Let me put it this way. Your request of a claim was way bigger a rolefish than Wombat's proposal of massclaim.Rage wrote:2) Your venture is opinion, so there's nothing I can effectively rebuttal here
What? Let me ask you, do you think it is actually pro-town to be rolefishing?Rage wrote:Macavity, what do you have against role-fishing so early in the day?
Hey now. Deflecting suspicion much? There is an obvious distinction--you called for a claim.Rage wrote:One more thing, MacavityLock. According to Tarballs, he has brought me to L-3 on page two. How is that much different?
Tarballs wrote:Oh, he only had 3? Well then, Vote: Rage. That's L-3, so were not in the danger zone just yet.
Definitely have a purpose for it. I think you are, after so much discussion, the most likely to be scum.Rage wrote:@Darkdude, MacavityLock, Tarballs, Korts, do you have a purpose for your votes? If so, what is it? If not, please say so.
BTW, IGMEOY on everyone who jumped on Rage solely for using a quote from Wombat "out of context", since it was obvious he was misusing the phrase. I will look it up later to see who exactly those people are.
Gotta go to class now, will read the rest later.scumchat never die-
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Puta Puta Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 161
- Joined: November 1, 2008
Psst Psst. this is not poetry (and lol at you for not knowing what ti is) and also psst psst, read it...it has relevanceEctomancer wrote:
Psst. The poetry forum is overPuta Puta wrote:Nought's had, all's spent,
Where our desire is got without content;
'Tis safer to be that which we destroy
Than by destruction dwell in doubtful joy.
Deep dig for the answer you seek.there. You're in the mafia forum, just fyi-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4322
- Joined: January 5, 2007
- Location: Middle of the road
Im not a Shakespeare fanboi. Say what is on your tongue, and not the The Bard's.Puta Puta wrote:
Psst Psst. this is not poetry (and lol at you for not knowing what ti is) and also psst psst, read it...it has relevanceEctomancer wrote:
Psst. The poetry forum is overPuta Puta wrote:Nought's had, all's spent,
Where our desire is got without content;
'Tis safer to be that which we destroy
Than by destruction dwell in doubtful joy.
Deep dig for the answer you seek.there. You're in the mafia forum, just fyiI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
This unsupported statement brought to you by the Anti-Supported Statement League of the United States and Territories (ASSLUST)-
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Puta Puta Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 161
- Joined: November 1, 2008
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Rage Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 538
- Joined: April 1, 2008
I play RL every day with darkdude, and, yes, we generally end up massclaiming when we know it's lynch or lose. However, usually anyone who asks for massclaim "too early" gets a heck of a lot of suspicion on them and then ends up being the lynch for the day. I'm not saying Brain of Wombat should be today's lynch, I'm saying I'm suspicious of him because it's behavior that I've seen scum try to pull. Along with the inclusion of roles that have an ambiguous alignment, I think Wombat's behavior, as I mentioned earlier, matches what I presume a scum's version of one of them to be. I want to hear from him to be certain of his intentions, instead of other players jetting in to say that he's just a newb and not to take his actions seriously, as though they want to defend him merely to put suspicion on me. Which is precisely what you are doing.Korts wrote:
Massclaim may be considered a valid strategy for beginners. I've seen RL mafia played so, although it usually ends up being a game of "follow the cop". Considering his join date, it's more than reasonable to assume that Wombat doesn't know the MS meta.Rage wrote:
How?Korts wrote:Wombat seems earnest in his newbness.
Now, what I mean by him being a newb not being too much of a factor about his actions so far is that would it not be easier to tell if he's a newbie scum than a newbie townie if he's asking for things a townie shouldn't be, first thing in the game? You can blame it on newbiness and say that he might have heard it done somewhere before and, thus, tried it out here, but how can you be so sure about this if 1) he hasn't said a word about it himself, and 2) He's town, and therefore has less of a chance of players sticking up for him (and if he's a mason setting up someone for starting a case on him, there's the possibility of a scum Neighbour).
In short, I'm saying we can't take anything anyone says to heart unless it can be backed up by logical proof, like darkdude's suggestion of No Lynch to make the numbers better for town.
I understand. I have a meta with darkdude outside of MS, too, but he's not a newb.Korts wrote:
Considering meta outside MS, it's justified.Rage wrote:1) You're giving Wombat wiggle room by handing him the Newbie Card
Yup, I understood what your view on these events were, but now that you've said that, how is asking one player to claim scummier than asking investigative roles or for a mass claim?Korts wrote:
Let me put it this way. Your request of a claim was way bigger a rolefish than Wombat's proposal of massclaim.Rage wrote:2) Your venture is opinion, so there's nothing I can effectively rebuttal here
In this stage of the game, I think we have the best opportunity to see how much players' are opposed, or for, fishing for a roleclaim, and for whom. Right now I can see that darkdude, yourself (Korts) and Tarballs are opposed. I don't get a good read on who exactly is not opposed, but I'm sure that the people who haven't voted for me fill those spots up pretty nicely.Korts wrote:
What? Let me ask you, do you think it is actually pro-town to be rolefishing?Rage wrote:Macavity, what do you have against role-fishing so early in the day?
Well, if asking for one role claim trumps asking cops to role claim, then so be it.Korts wrote:
Definitely have a purpose for it. I think you are, after so much discussion, the most likely to be scum.Rage wrote:@Darkdude, MacavityLock, Tarballs, Korts, do you have a purpose for your votes? If so, what is it? If not, please say so.
I think I will have something to say about this quote when Korts answers my "you think this is scummier than this" question above. For now, though, it seems like you're setting yourself up for a good attack on one of the player's voting for me if I flip Town, but I don't think anything for certain just yet.Korts wrote:BTW, IGMEOY on everyone who jumped on Rage solely for using a quote from Wombat "out of context", since it was obvious he was misusing the phrase. I will look it up later to see who exactly those people are.I'm a rageaholic! I just can't live without rageahol!-
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darkdude Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1340
- Joined: February 17, 2008
Okay, first of all usual practices in face-to-face mafia is different to practices here in online mafia. For example, it's much easier to simply jump on someone and ask for a role claim when playing face-to-face; if they're scum they'll stutter or make some awkward play that will give it away. In online mafia though players have a much greater control over things. So most of the time we're looking for subconscious slips, and pressure does not workRage wrote: I play RL every day with darkdude, and, yes, we generally end up massclaiming when we know it's lynch or lose. However, usually anyone who asks for massclaim "too early" gets a heck of a lot of suspicion on them and then ends up being the lynch for the day. I'm not saying Brain of Wombat should be today's lynch, I'm saying I'm suspicious of him because it's behavior that I've seen scum try to pull. Along with the inclusion of roles that have an ambiguous alignment, I think Wombat's behavior, as I mentioned earlier, matches what I presume a scum's version of one of them to be. I want to hear from him to be certain of his intentions, instead of other players jetting in to say that he's just a newb and not to take his actions seriously, as though they want to defend him merely to put suspicion on me. Which is precisely what you are doing.
Now, what I mean by him being a newb not being too much of a factor about his actions so far is that would it not be easier to tell if he's a newbie scum than a newbie townie if he's asking for things a townie shouldn't be, first thing in the game? You can blame it on newbiness and say that he might have heard it done somewhere before and, thus, tried it out here, but how can you be so sure about this if 1) he hasn't said a word about it himself, and 2) He's town, and therefore has less of a chance of players sticking up for him (and if he's a mason setting up someone for starting a case on him, there's the possibility of a scum Neighbour).nearly as wellas in online mafia.
Of course, bad play cannot be brushed aside but must be remembered for later. I think it is interesting that Wombat has not posted since post #24 two days ago...Rage wrote: Now, what I mean by him being a newb not being too much of a factor about his actions so far is that would it not be easier to tell if he's a newbie scum than a newbie townie if he's asking for things a townie shouldn't be, first thing in the game? You can blame it on newbiness and say that he might have heard it done somewhere before and, thus, tried it out here, but how can you be so sure about this if 1) he hasn't said a word about it himself, and 2) He's town, and therefore has less of a chance of players sticking up for him (and if he's a mason setting up someone for starting a case on him, there's the possibility of a scum Neighbour)-
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Brain of Wombat Townie
- Townie
- Townie
- Posts: 19
- Joined: November 2, 2008
- Location: Stirling, UK
Yeah, that's more or less exactly what it was. I was looking for information while, stupidly, not considering the implications of that in terms of making the outed investigators more vulnerable.MacavityLock wrote:
I think Wombat's first post is certainly something to keep in mind, butRage wrote:Macavity, what do you have against role-fishing so early in the day? Also, why are you so forgiving to Brain of Wombat's role-fishing (asking for a cop claim), yet so quick to switch to me?it definitely felt like more of a newbie move (who's got info for us so that we can be lazy today?).Role-fishing early is bad because it gives scum better targets. You've been here longer than I have, do I really need to tell you that?
I've watched a couple of games, but this is my first time playing and I didn't properly think through my first post. I'll hopefully get better as this thing goes along.
I don't want to condemn Rage for his reaction, he could have the towns best interests at heart. You were talking about me being scum, or a mason, or a scum neighbour (?) or whatever. Quite simply, I have no interaction or connection with any other players. I'm just an average townie, that's it.-
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Brain of Wombat Townie
- Townie
- Townie
- Posts: 19
- Joined: November 2, 2008
- Location: Stirling, UK
When your first post lands you in such hot water, it's kinda scary. It seemed like whatever I said just made it worse so I decided to step back for a day or two - as my mother always told me: When you're in a hole, stop digging.darkdude wrote: Of course, bad play cannot be brushed aside but must be remembered for later. I think it is interesting that Wombat has not posted since post #24 two days ago...-
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darkdude Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1340
- Joined: February 17, 2008
Remember this, don't claim until asked to. That includes dropping hints like you just did. All it does is give scum more information to work with. Town, on the other hand, rarely benefits from it.I've watched a couple of games, but this is my first time playing and I didn't properly think through my first post. I'll hopefully get better as this thing goes along.
I don't want to condemn Rage for his reaction, he could have the towns best interests at heart. You were talking about me being scum, or a mason, or a scum neighbour (?) or whatever. Quite simply, I have no interaction or connection with any other players. I'm just an average townie, that's it.
Seems like everyone but tubby has posted at least once. Wombat, who is your top suspect at the moment?-
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Brain of Wombat Townie
- Townie
- Townie
- Posts: 19
- Joined: November 2, 2008
- Location: Stirling, UK
I'm not making a full on claim yet, but when you're on the receiving end of fairly intense pressure like I'm getting from Rage, it feels necessary to say something in my defence.darkdude wrote:
Remember this, don't claim until asked to. That includes dropping hints like you just did. All it does is give scum more information to work with. Town, on the other hand, rarely benefits from it.I've watched a couple of games, but this is my first time playing and I didn't properly think through my first post. I'll hopefully get better as this thing goes along.
I don't want to condemn Rage for his reaction, he could have the towns best interests at heart. You were talking about me being scum, or a mason, or a scum neighbour (?) or whatever. Quite simply, I have no interaction or connection with any other players. I'm just an average townie, that's it.
My original point was that I didn't think we'd be able to even begin to have real suspects on day one.darkdude wrote: Seems like everyone but tubby has posted at least once. Wombat, who is your top suspect at the moment?
If I had to... until Tubby and Gorckat make a real contribution it's always possible they are scum trying to fly under the radar, but it would be unfair to assume that yet.
Puta Puta's first contribution was to quote Lady Macbeth, not exactly a heroic or honest character, manipulative, calculating. He's generally being quite strange and cryptic, that seems odd to me.
I can understand the counter-wagon on Rage, but I'm not sure that's something I want to be a part of or really comment on. He could be scum, he could be a defensive townie, personally I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt right now.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Brain comes off as very newbish.
Rage comes off as someone whose gotten to the point of punishing any non-standard play.
dude comes off as scummy for willingness to vote people without any posts at all. That's not lurking, that's potential flaking. Lurking is scummy, flaking is null.
puta's quote is mildly annoying. I don't have a Cliff Notes to Macbeth.
Tarballs comments around his Rage vote are curious.
And after skim back, Rage's claim call is not cool.
vote: Rage-
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Korts Luddite
- Luddite
- Luddite
- Posts: 5752
- Joined: January 1, 2008
- Location: HUN BUD
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tubby216 Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2608
- Joined: August 1, 2008
- Location: Titusville PA
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tubby216 Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2608
- Joined: August 1, 2008
- Location: Titusville PA
ok first off the rage vs brian debactle,
i believe both are town atm rage was hunting and called brian on some questionable play, brian was trying to be helpful but stumbled of some newbitis ( don't worry happenes to me all the time) will re-read agian to catch up more to follow perhaps tomorow"I swear tubby is scum in every game I've read, even some of the ones he wasn't in. "~Vi
"Whether you love him or hate him, Tubby is an excellent scumhunter."~BM
[b]need 0 replacements for open189 pm me[/b]-
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MacavityLock Impin' Ain't Easy
- Impin' Ain't Easy
- Impin' Ain't Easy
- Posts: 2486
- Joined: August 14, 2008
Is "I'm just an average townie" not a full on claim?Brain of Wombat wrote:
I'm not making a full on claim yet, but when you're on the receiving end of fairly intense pressure like I'm getting from Rage, it feels necessary to say something in my defence.darkdude wrote:
Remember this, don't claim until asked to. That includes dropping hints like you just did. All it does is give scum more information to work with. Town, on the other hand, rarely benefits from it.I've watched a couple of games, but this is my first time playing and I didn't properly think through my first post. I'll hopefully get better as this thing goes along.
I don't want to condemn Rage for his reaction, he could have the towns best interests at heart. You were talking about me being scum, or a mason, or a scum neighbour (?) or whatever. Quite simply, I have no interaction or connection with any other players. I'm just an average townie, that's it.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4322
- Joined: January 5, 2007
- Location: Middle of the road
Yes, but what does that have to do with the game of mafia? Any thoughts on that topic?Puta Puta wrote:^..I wanna stab the cat (in your avatar) and decapitate its head.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
This unsupported statement brought to you by the Anti-Supported Statement League of the United States and Territories (ASSLUST)-
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MacavityLock Impin' Ain't Easy
- Impin' Ain't Easy
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Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I'm not asking for a claim. I don't think claiming is a good idea. I'm pointing out to Wombat his self-contradictory statements.gorckat wrote:
Do you prefer nets, spears or hooks when you go fishing?Mac wrote:Is "I'm just an average townie" not a full on claim?
Now re-reading, I can how it would come off as fishing. Wombat, don't answer my question.Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.-
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Korts Luddite
- Luddite
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- Location: HUN BUD
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Tarballs Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 369
- Joined: August 12, 2008
- Location: Finland
Join date is usually a good indicator. When a new game starts, I always look at every players' join dates to get some sort of a picture of how experienced they are. Of course, it's not always the absolute truth, but it gives me an impression. And BoW's first post certainly made me feel like he's a newbie even more.Rage wrote:Like I asked Korts, how do know BoW is a newbie?
That's correct,Rage wrote:I don't see how it matters if I asked for a role claimon page one. Doesn't it matter that I have asked for one in the first place? You are also emphasizing how much I want a role claim, when, in fact, I do not "demand" anything. As I've said before, I mentioned why I was voting for him.whenyou asked it is not that important. But this is certainly the first time I've ever seen someone wanting a role claim from a certain player on page one. I've seen mass claims but this is totally different. Anyhow, asking for a role claim was very weird, as BoW wasn't even close of being lynched at that point. Claims are usually made at L-1, but I believe you were the fourth one to cast a vote on BoW, or third if you don't count chuckrock's random vote. So, I don't feel like it was "justified" to ask him to role claim at that point.
Several people have questioned me for my "bad" reasons for voting against Rage. I believe that on day one it's good to have a vote on someone at about all times. There is a good reason for that: It keeps pressure on people, and therefore there's always something to discuss about, so this game doesn't stall so easily even if some people were to go lurking/missing. Yeah, I didn't vote in my first post though, because I thought that my prime suspect already had quite a lot of votes against him, and voting for someone who Idon'tsee as the scummiest would be pretty pointless.
I chose Rage, because he seemed like the most suspicious one at that time, and didn't have too many votes against him yet. I don't like putting anyone to L-1 or L-2 this early in the game. If someone were to post at the same time as me, or someone voted without checking the vote count first, it might lead to an accidental hammer. But do I believe that this wagon is going to lead to a lynch? Not really. I'm not even close to ready to lynch anyone yet. Even if Rage seems the scummiest at this point, the arguments against him are still way too weak for a lynch. But pressure is always good.
Right now, I'd have to say that Puta Puta's post #58 is an obvious scumtell. No townie would ever want to kill a cat I also don't like the "just an average townie" soft claim by BoW. He's certainly becoming more suspicious, but it's not quite enough for me to change my vote yet.
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