Mini 703 - A Roccisi Autumn - Over

[chuckrock]

Yep, darkdude, I've made three posts after this one.

I don't have a strong opinion on anyone and I don't want to bandwagon rage. I want to see more. Especially from Puta, tubby and gorckat.

As I mentioned, the role claim was foolish. It's on my "remember that list."

A no-lynch is not beneficial to the town, as far as I've seen, so that seems hinke also.

Aside from that I have nothing more to add to the already mentioned information. This aren't issues I'm willing to throw a vote out for at this time.

[Puta Puta]

Nought's had, all's spent,
Where our desire is got without content;
'Tis safer to be that which we destroy
Than by destruction dwell in doubtful joy.

Deep dig for the answer you seek.

[TDC]

Vote Count

Rage (3): MacavityLock, Korts, Tarballs

Brain of Wombat (1): Rage
tubby216 (1): darkdude

Not voting (7): Ectomancer, tubby216, Puta Puta, gorckat, Brain of Wombat, ThAdmiral, chuckrock

Reminding tubby216 and gorckat that the game started.

[Ectomancer]

Nought's had, all's spent,
Where our desire is got without content;
'Tis safer to be that which we destroy
Than by destruction dwell in doubtful joy.

Deep dig for the answer you seek.

Psst. The poetry forum is over

there

. You're in the mafia forum, just fyi

[Korts]

Wombat seems earnest in his newbness.

How?

Massclaim may be considered a valid strategy for beginners. I've seen RL mafia played so, although it usually ends up being a game of "follow the cop". Considering his join date, it's more than reasonable to assume that Wombat doesn't know the MS meta.

Rage, however, acted very aggressively opportunistic.

Again, how?

You jumped on a blatant scumtell, which is by itself valid, but the problem I have is that you actually pushed for an immediate claim on Wombat's behalf. From a scum perspective, I can see a clear motivation for that (draw a power role claim or otherwise narrow down the pool of possible power roles). From a town one, not so much.

1) You're giving Wombat wiggle room by handing him the Newbie Card

Considering meta outside MS, it's justified.

2) Your venture is opinion, so there's nothing I can effectively rebuttal here

Let me put it this way. Your request of a claim was way bigger a rolefish than Wombat's proposal of massclaim.

Macavity, what do you have against role-fishing so early in the day?

What? Let me ask you, do you think it is actually pro-town to be rolefishing?

One more thing, MacavityLock. According to Tarballs, he has brought me to L-3 on page two. How is that much different?

Oh, he only had 3? Well then, Vote: Rage. That's L-3, so were not in the danger zone just yet.

Hey now. Deflecting suspicion much? There is an obvious distinction--you called for a claim.

@Darkdude, MacavityLock, Tarballs, Korts, do you have a purpose for your votes? If so, what is it? If not, please say so.

Definitely have a purpose for it. I think you are, after so much discussion, the most likely to be scum.

BTW, IGMEOY on everyone who jumped on Rage solely for using a quote from Wombat "out of context", since it was obvious he was misusing the phrase. I will look it up later to see who exactly those people are.

Gotta go to class now, will read the rest later.

[Puta Puta]

Nought's had, all's spent,
Where our desire is got without content;
'Tis safer to be that which we destroy
Than by destruction dwell in doubtful joy.

Deep dig for the answer you seek.

Psst. The poetry forum is over

there

. You're in the mafia forum, just fyi

Psst Psst. this is not poetry (and lol at you for not knowing what ti is) and also psst psst, read it...it has relevance

[gorckat]

I am here- I had rad the first two pages, but haven't had time at work to post. I'll be on tonight at some point to contribute.

[Ectomancer]

Nought's had, all's spent,
Where our desire is got without content;
'Tis safer to be that which we destroy
Than by destruction dwell in doubtful joy.

Deep dig for the answer you seek.

Psst. The poetry forum is over

there

. You're in the mafia forum, just fyi

Psst Psst. this is not poetry (and lol at you for not knowing what ti is) and also psst psst, read it...it has relevance

Im not a Shakespeare fanboi. Say what is on your tongue, and not the The Bard's.

[Puta Puta]

^..I wanna stab the cat (in your avatar) and decapitate its head.

[Rage]

Wombat seems earnest in his newbness.

How?

Massclaim may be considered a valid strategy for beginners. I've seen RL mafia played so, although it usually ends up being a game of "follow the cop". Considering his join date, it's more than reasonable to assume that Wombat doesn't know the MS meta.

I play RL every day with darkdude, and, yes, we generally end up massclaiming when we know it's lynch or lose. However, usually anyone who asks for massclaim "too early" gets a heck of a lot of suspicion on them and then ends up being the lynch for the day. I'm not saying Brain of Wombat should be today's lynch, I'm saying I'm suspicious of him because it's behavior that I've seen scum try to pull. Along with the inclusion of roles that have an ambiguous alignment, I think Wombat's behavior, as I mentioned earlier, matches what I presume a scum's version of one of them to be. I want to hear from him to be certain of his intentions, instead of other players jetting in to say that he's just a newb and not to take his actions seriously, as though they want to defend him merely to put suspicion on me. Which is precisely what you are doing.

Now, what I mean by him being a newb not being too much of a factor about his actions so far is that would it not be easier to tell if he's a newbie scum than a newbie townie if he's asking for things a townie shouldn't be, first thing in the game? You can blame it on newbiness and say that he might have heard it done somewhere before and, thus, tried it out here, but how can you be so sure about this if 1) he hasn't said a word about it himself, and 2) He's town, and therefore has less of a chance of players sticking up for him (and if he's a mason setting up someone for starting a case on him, there's the possibility of a scum Neighbour).

In short, I'm saying we can't take anything anyone says to heart unless it can be backed up by logical proof, like darkdude's suggestion of No Lynch to make the numbers better for town.

1) You're giving Wombat wiggle room by handing him the Newbie Card

Considering meta outside MS, it's justified.

I understand. I have a meta with darkdude outside of MS, too, but he's not a newb.

2) Your venture is opinion, so there's nothing I can effectively rebuttal here

Let me put it this way. Your request of a claim was way bigger a rolefish than Wombat's proposal of massclaim.

Yup, I understood what your view on these events were, but now that you've said that, how is asking one player to claim scummier than asking investigative roles or for a mass claim?

Macavity, what do you have against role-fishing so early in the day?

What? Let me ask you, do you think it is actually pro-town to be rolefishing?

In this stage of the game, I think we have the best opportunity to see how much players' are opposed, or for, fishing for a roleclaim, and for whom. Right now I can see that darkdude, yourself (Korts) and Tarballs are opposed. I don't get a good read on who exactly is not opposed, but I'm sure that the people who haven't voted for me fill those spots up pretty nicely.

@Darkdude, MacavityLock, Tarballs, Korts, do you have a purpose for your votes? If so, what is it? If not, please say so.

Definitely have a purpose for it. I think you are, after so much discussion, the most likely to be scum.

Well, if asking for one role claim trumps asking cops to role claim, then so be it.

BTW, IGMEOY on everyone who jumped on Rage solely for using a quote from Wombat "out of context", since it was obvious he was misusing the phrase. I will look it up later to see who exactly those people are.

I think I will have something to say about this quote when Korts answers my "you think this is scummier than this" question above. For now, though, it seems like you're setting yourself up for a good attack on one of the player's voting for me if I flip Town, but I don't think anything for certain just yet.

[darkdude]

I play RL every day with darkdude, and, yes, we generally end up massclaiming when we know it's lynch or lose. However, usually anyone who asks for massclaim "too early" gets a heck of a lot of suspicion on them and then ends up being the lynch for the day. I'm not saying Brain of Wombat should be today's lynch, I'm saying I'm suspicious of him because it's behavior that I've seen scum try to pull. Along with the inclusion of roles that have an ambiguous alignment, I think Wombat's behavior, as I mentioned earlier, matches what I presume a scum's version of one of them to be. I want to hear from him to be certain of his intentions, instead of other players jetting in to say that he's just a newb and not to take his actions seriously, as though they want to defend him merely to put suspicion on me. Which is precisely what you are doing.

Now, what I mean by him being a newb not being too much of a factor about his actions so far is that would it not be easier to tell if he's a newbie scum than a newbie townie if he's asking for things a townie shouldn't be, first thing in the game? You can blame it on newbiness and say that he might have heard it done somewhere before and, thus, tried it out here, but how can you be so sure about this if 1) he hasn't said a word about it himself, and 2) He's town, and therefore has less of a chance of players sticking up for him (and if he's a mason setting up someone for starting a case on him, there's the possibility of a scum Neighbour).

Okay, first of all usual practices in face-to-face mafia is different to practices here in online mafia. For example, it's much easier to simply jump on someone and ask for a role claim when playing face-to-face; if they're scum they'll stutter or make some awkward play that will give it away. In online mafia though players have a much greater control over things. So most of the time we're looking for subconscious slips, and pressure does not work

nearly as well

as in online mafia.

Now, what I mean by him being a newb not being too much of a factor about his actions so far is that would it not be easier to tell if he's a newbie scum than a newbie townie if he's asking for things a townie shouldn't be, first thing in the game? You can blame it on newbiness and say that he might have heard it done somewhere before and, thus, tried it out here, but how can you be so sure about this if 1) he hasn't said a word about it himself, and 2) He's town, and therefore has less of a chance of players sticking up for him (and if he's a mason setting up someone for starting a case on him, there's the possibility of a scum Neighbour)

Of course, bad play cannot be brushed aside but must be remembered for later. I think it is interesting that Wombat has not posted since post #24 two days ago...

[Brain of Wombat]

Macavity, what do you have against role-fishing so early in the day? Also, why are you so forgiving to Brain of Wombat's role-fishing (asking for a cop claim), yet so quick to switch to me?

I think Wombat's first post is certainly something to keep in mind, but

it definitely felt like more of a newbie move (who's got info for us so that we can be lazy today?).

Role-fishing early is bad because it gives scum better targets. You've been here longer than I have, do I really need to tell you that?

Yeah, that's more or less exactly what it was. I was looking for information while, stupidly, not considering the implications of that in terms of making the outed investigators more vulnerable.

I've watched a couple of games, but this is my first time playing and I didn't properly think through my first post. I'll hopefully get better as this thing goes along.

I don't want to condemn Rage for his reaction, he could have the towns best interests at heart. You were talking about me being scum, or a mason, or a scum neighbour (?) or whatever. Quite simply, I have no interaction or connection with any other players. I'm just an average townie, that's it.

[Brain of Wombat]

Of course, bad play cannot be brushed aside but must be remembered for later. I think it is interesting that Wombat has not posted since post #24 two days ago...

When your first post lands you in such hot water, it's kinda scary. It seemed like whatever I said just made it worse so I decided to step back for a day or two - as my mother always told me: When you're in a hole, stop digging.

[darkdude]

I've watched a couple of games, but this is my first time playing and I didn't properly think through my first post. I'll hopefully get better as this thing goes along.

I don't want to condemn Rage for his reaction, he could have the towns best interests at heart. You were talking about me being scum, or a mason, or a scum neighbour (?) or whatever. Quite simply, I have no interaction or connection with any other players. I'm just an average townie, that's it.

Remember this, don't claim until asked to. That includes dropping hints like you just did. All it does is give scum more information to work with. Town, on the other hand, rarely benefits from it.

Seems like everyone but tubby has posted at least once. Wombat, who is your top suspect at the moment?

[Brain of Wombat]

I've watched a couple of games, but this is my first time playing and I didn't properly think through my first post. I'll hopefully get better as this thing goes along.

I don't want to condemn Rage for his reaction, he could have the towns best interests at heart. You were talking about me being scum, or a mason, or a scum neighbour (?) or whatever. Quite simply, I have no interaction or connection with any other players. I'm just an average townie, that's it.

Remember this, don't claim until asked to. That includes dropping hints like you just did. All it does is give scum more information to work with. Town, on the other hand, rarely benefits from it.

I'm not making a full on claim yet, but when you're on the receiving end of fairly intense pressure like I'm getting from Rage, it feels necessary to say something in my defence.

Seems like everyone but tubby has posted at least once. Wombat, who is your top suspect at the moment?

My original point was that I didn't think we'd be able to even begin to have real suspects on day one.

If I had to... until Tubby and Gorckat make a real contribution it's always possible they are scum trying to fly under the radar, but it would be unfair to assume that yet.

Puta Puta's first contribution was to quote Lady Macbeth, not exactly a heroic or honest character, manipulative, calculating. He's generally being quite strange and cryptic, that seems odd to me.

I can understand the counter-wagon on Rage, but I'm not sure that's something I want to be a part of or really comment on. He could be scum, he could be a defensive townie, personally I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt right now.

[gorckat]

Brain comes off as very newbish.

Rage comes off as someone whose gotten to the point of punishing any non-standard play.

dude comes off as scummy for willingness to vote people without any posts at all. That's not lurking, that's potential flaking. Lurking is scummy, flaking is null.

puta's quote is mildly annoying. I don't have a Cliff Notes to Macbeth.

Tarballs comments around his Rage vote are curious.

And after skim back, Rage's claim call is not cool.

vote: Rage

[Korts]

I promise Rage I will answer tomorrow definitely, but at the moment I have a lot of things on my hands.

[tubby216]

picking up prod,,

sorry i was v/la untill today i will catch up and post more soonest.

[tubby216]

ok first off the rage vs brian debactle,

i believe both are town atm rage was hunting and called brian on some questionable play, brian was trying to be helpful but stumbled of some newbitis ( don't worry happenes to me all the time) will re-read agian to catch up more to follow perhaps tomorow

[MacavityLock]

I've watched a couple of games, but this is my first time playing and I didn't properly think through my first post. I'll hopefully get better as this thing goes along.

I don't want to condemn Rage for his reaction, he could have the towns best interests at heart. You were talking about me being scum, or a mason, or a scum neighbour (?) or whatever. Quite simply, I have no interaction or connection with any other players. I'm just an average townie, that's it.

Remember this, don't claim until asked to. That includes dropping hints like you just did. All it does is give scum more information to work with. Town, on the other hand, rarely benefits from it.

I'm not making a full on claim yet, but when you're on the receiving end of fairly intense pressure like I'm getting from Rage, it feels necessary to say something in my defence.

Is "I'm just an average townie" not a full on claim?

[gorckat]

Is "I'm just an average townie" not a full on claim?

Do you prefer nets, spears or hooks when you go fishing?

[Ectomancer]

^..I wanna stab the cat (in your avatar) and decapitate its head.

Yes, but what does that have to do with the game of mafia? Any thoughts on that topic?

[MacavityLock]

Is "I'm just an average townie" not a full on claim?

Do you prefer nets, spears or hooks when you go fishing?

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I'm not asking for a claim. I don't think claiming is a good idea. I'm pointing out to Wombat his self-contradictory statements.

Now re-reading, I can how it would come off as fishing. Wombat, don't answer my question.

[Korts]

BACKTRACK ALERT

MAN YOUR STATIONS

THIS IS NOT A DRILL

[Tarballs]

Like I asked Korts, how do know BoW is a newbie?

Join date is usually a good indicator. When a new game starts, I always look at every players' join dates to get some sort of a picture of how experienced they are. Of course, it's not always the absolute truth, but it gives me an impression. And BoW's first post certainly made me feel like he's a newbie even more.

I don't see how it matters if I asked for a role claim

on page one

. Doesn't it matter that I have asked for one in the first place? You are also emphasizing how much I want a role claim, when, in fact, I do not "demand" anything. As I've said before, I mentioned why I was voting for him.

That's correct,

when

you asked it is not that important. But this is certainly the first time I've ever seen someone wanting a role claim from a certain player on page one. I've seen mass claims but this is totally different. Anyhow, asking for a role claim was very weird, as BoW wasn't even close of being lynched at that point. Claims are usually made at L-1, but I believe you were the fourth one to cast a vote on BoW, or third if you don't count chuckrock's random vote. So, I don't feel like it was "justified" to ask him to role claim at that point.

Several people have questioned me for my "bad" reasons for voting against Rage. I believe that on day one it's good to have a vote on someone at about all times. There is a good reason for that: It keeps pressure on people, and therefore there's always something to discuss about, so this game doesn't stall so easily even if some people were to go lurking/missing. Yeah, I didn't vote in my first post though, because I thought that my prime suspect already had quite a lot of votes against him, and voting for someone who I

don't

see as the scummiest would be pretty pointless.

I chose Rage, because he seemed like the most suspicious one at that time, and didn't have too many votes against him yet. I don't like putting anyone to L-1 or L-2 this early in the game. If someone were to post at the same time as me, or someone voted without checking the vote count first, it might lead to an accidental hammer. But do I believe that this wagon is going to lead to a lynch? Not really. I'm not even close to ready to lynch anyone yet. Even if Rage seems the scummiest at this point, the arguments against him are still way too weak for a lynch. But pressure is always good.

Right now, I'd have to say that Puta Puta's post #58 is an obvious scumtell. No townie would ever want to kill a cat I also don't like the "just an average townie" soft claim by BoW. He's certainly becoming more suspicious, but it's not quite enough for me to change my vote yet.