Mini 680: Portlandia- Game Over!

[icemanE]

I'm willing to go with what the town thinks is best. But letting the cops choose their own targets is ten times more useless than clearing them and getting at least one useful report out of them. Now that they've all claimed, it seems clear that minimizing the damage seems the best route, to me, but sure, let's have them randomly shoot in the dark and come up with what will most likely be useless reports. And by my plan, we'll have useful results on day 3 at the latest - how in god's name can you argue, chaz, that getting useful results on day 4 is more advantageous?

[chazworthington]

Whatever, guys.

mod - retract my deadline request

.

Clearly this group isn't going to listen to reason. Or spell guarantee correctly.

I'm more than willing to listen to counter arguments to the posts I've just made.

[icemanE]

I'm more than willing to listen to counter arguments to the posts I've just made.

See my last post.

[chazworthington]

I'm willing to go with what the town thinks is best. But letting the cops choose their own targets is ten times more useless than clearing them and getting at least one useful report out of them. Now that they've all claimed, it seems clear that minimizing the damage seems the best route, to me, but sure, let's have them randomly shoot in the dark and come up with what will most likely be useless reports. And by my plan, we'll have useful results on day 3 at the latest - how in god's name can you argue, chaz, that getting useful results on day 4 is more advantageous?

Because two of them won't be around by D3 unless we have a doc. So testing them doesn't help us much because we might know the sanity, but we didn't put it to use.

Now instead we let them do their own investigations. We still have two dead cops by D3 assuming no doc, but we've got 3 results on potentially 3 different people. We won't know the sanities but its another element to ocnsider when reviewing people later in the game.

[icemanE]

I guess so, chaz, but I really see many more problems and confusions arising from having the cops investigate randomly without knowing their sanities than I do from my plan. Realistically, we'll only have two cops tomorrow as it is, as even if there IS a doc, he only has a 33% chance of picking and protecting the right cop from a NK. Then, we have two reports which are initially useless. I don't see how verifying sanities isn't the best way to go - we will have one totally solid report, guaranteed on day 3, instead of three reports which have no bearing.

If I'm in the minority here, chances are I'm wrong. I'm speaking only from my own experience.

[chazworthington]

I'm explaining myself poorly. I'll try again.

Based on Fark's post, the problem with having the cops test their sanity on X (or other claimed role) is as follows:
D2 - one cop dead, two left. If at this point we can conclude the sanity of a specific cop, that's the one that gets targeted N2
D3 We've got one cop left and might not know the sanity. He's dead N3

Ths assumes no doc and that all claimed cops are indeed cops.

Now, assume the cops investigate on their own.
D2 comes: one cop dead. Wehave two investigations on hopefully two different people. We don't use that info D2.
D3 comes, two cops dead. One more investigation.

We only have imperfect info on 3 players. But we may be able to grind out some results by saying, hypothetically: "Cop A got two gulities on player B and C. These two don't appear to be a scum pair. Cop A is naive"

Again, this assumes we don't have a doc and all claimed cops are cops.

It's not nearly as useful as a confirmed sane cop claim, but I don't see how we're going to get the sane cop to survive.

Basically, it comes down to this: the town hopes we have a doc and we use N1 to try and ID a sane cop or the town lets the cops make their investigations and we use it as one more piece of evidence when looking at players rather than the smoking gun.

[bionicchop2]

Now instead we let them do their own investigations. We still have two dead cops by D3 assuming no doc, but we've got 3 results on potentially 3 different people. We won't know the sanities but its another element to ocnsider when reviewing people later in the game.

Well, if one cop dies n1 we will have 2 results. Then if 1 cop dies the next night, you really only have 1 cop with 2 results since the dead cop with 1 result is useless.

The reality is, we need to try and play this game as if there are no cops until we get something worthwhile. We are going to have to do actual scum hunting this game since one (or more) of the cop claims could still be fake (and they will be able to cater their results to whatever looks pretty). Having multiple cops and a miller is usually intended to minimize the value of the cop role. In most cases it ends up a distraction to the town when they are so focused on the cops and their investigations they forget to play mafia.

No matter what happens, we won't have meaningful reports until day 3. By day 3, you are usually sitting with 8 players and potentially we still have 3 scum.

Forget about what the cops should and shouldn't do. If you are vanilla, play the game as mountainous.

[chazworthington]

I guess so, chaz, but I really see many more problems and confusions arising from having the cops investigate randomly without knowing their sanities than I do from my plan. Realistically, we'll only have two cops tomorrow as it is, as even if there IS a doc, he only has a 33% chance of picking and protecting the right cop from a NK. Then, we have two reports which are initially useless. I don't see how verifying sanities isn't the best way to go -

we will have one totally solid report, guaranteed on day 3,

instead of three reports which have no bearing.

If I'm in the minority here, chances are I'm wrong. I'm speaking only from my own experience.

bolded is mine. I think I agree with you if we have a doc. If we don't, the scum is going to know which cop to target N2.

I don't claim to know what to do here either: until Fark's post I was looking at it the way you are.

If others are up and want to chime in, that would be good.

[icemanE]

Hmm, my thoughts on the issue were that, even if we had a confirmed insane cop, we'd know he was insane based on his investigation result, which would in essence turn him into a sane cop. But beyond that I agree with bio on the need to focus primarily on scumhunting. Nonetheless our cops are an aside that should be utilized for maximum potential.

[chazworthington]

Hmm, my thoughts on the issue were that, even if we had a confirmed insane cop, we'd know he was insane based on his investigation result, which would in essence turn him into a sane cop.

But beyond that I agree with bio on the need to focus primarily on scumhunting. Nonetheless our cops are an aside that should be utilized for maximum potential.

Agreed on the bold, but the problem is the scum will know this as well.

Agreed with bio that this game should be built around scum hunting

[chazworthington]

ice, do you want to discuss more, or should I hammer?

[icemanE]

ice, do you want to discuss more, or should I hammer?

I think at this point you're OK to hammer - cops can look back at the thread, we've discussed the options.

[chazworthington]

Ok.

Unvote: RBT
Vote: Mr. Adams

Doing this to ensure a lynch today.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Final Vote Count

(7)Mr_Adams: icemanE, q21, G-Force, bionicchop2, X, Riceballtail, chazworthington
(2)Xtoxm: , Zazier, Knight of Cydonia
(2)Knight of Cydonia: Xtoxm, Mr_Adams

Not Voting: Farkshinsoup

7 votes to lynch.

The day is almost over. All of you head on over to Pioneer Courthouse Square, commonly referred to as "the Living Room of Portland".



Every day brings new sights to the Square. What's going on today? Is there a festival going on? A tuba concert? A Christmas Tree lighting?

No. Today you have gone to Pioneer Courthouse Square to see a hanging.



Mr_Adams has been lynched. He was a

vanilla townie

.

It is now Night 1. Send in those night actions.

[Haschel Cedricson]

6:00 AM
MAX train, Gresham-bound

"Tickets out, everyone!"

"Thank you."

"Thank you."

"I'm sorry, sir, you can't sit on the steps. May I see your ticket?"

"Thank you."

"Wake up, sir. Ticket inspector."

"Wake up! Are you okay?"

"Oh my God, he's dead! Somebody call the police!

"Jesus Christ, this guy

IS

the police!"

q21,

Cop

, died Night 1

Deadline: December 11+x

[chazworthington]

Before the others give their results, do we want to request the cops go in a certain order? For instance, I'd rather hear Zaz first.

[icemanE]

I think that's probably smart. Any reason for Zaz first?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Because he came under the most suspicion yesterday?
Not hugely surprised about Mr. Adams - as soon as Xtoxm came on scene and started chainsawing for him, I got worried.

Vote: Xtoxm

for scumminess, blatant OMGUSing anyone who put together a half-decent case against him, and for buddying onto Mr. Adams to try and make himself look good.

[ZazieR]

I'm FEMALE, KoC. You should know by now.

I wouldn't mind to go first, so if anyone has anuthing against, let us know before I'll give my result.

[Xtoxm]

He was fucking obv town.

Now we're going to lynch me aren't we. And cops split and are thus completely useless?

Why do I fucking bother...

[Xtoxm]

Vote KoC

As as i'm concerned, even if he's town he's been far too scummy for me not to vote him.

[G-Force]

I have no objections. I don't think it matters all that much though, since variable sanity means it will be hard to tell if either of us is lying.

[Xtoxm]

As far as*

[bionicchop2]

I don't think order matters much here, so whoever is on next should probably just post results along with reasons for investigating that person.

[G-Force]

As far as*

I meant as far as which cop claims their results first.