Xyl's Relative Chaos - Game over!

Vi · Post Post #150 (ISO) » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:08 am

DoomCow wrote:I certainly don't like invented PR's, even if they're claimed to be false at forehand. Therefore I'm getting a bit suspicious about Animrpherv1 and Vi (especially the first fake PR he used, the one that wasn't anounced as fake at forehand).

I'm gonna be needing a reread soon, but I'm not sure when I get the time to do a full read. I'm still up with the game as it goes though..

Your opinion of the tubby circus, which affects many more players than the people targeted by your arbitrary accusations. ASAP.

@animorpherv1: Same.

DoomCow · Post Post #151 (ISO) » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:23 am

Obvious I think he's the option for now, since I'm voting him.

Could change as the day grows longer though, if something better comes up, or he gives a good reason behind the post I voted him for (the one where he votes Crazy for defending him, saying it's probably to deflect suspicon from Crazy should the Tubby lynch continue and prove to be town.) But with a 4/8th bandwagon I'm willing to keep the vote

Xylthixlm · Post Post #152 (ISO) » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:24 am

Vote Count

tubby216 -

4

(SpyreX, farside22, DoomCow, ZazieR)
Crazy -

2

(animorpherv1, tubby216)
animorpherv1 -

1

(DrippingGoofball)
ZazieR -

1

(Crazy)
Korts -

1

(CoheedCambria09)
Vi -

1

(The Internet)
Natirasha -

1

(hasdgfas)
SpyreX -

1

(Korts)

Not voting: MafiaSSK, Natirasha, Vi

With 15 alive, it will take 8 to lynch. The deadline for day 1 will be Saturday, December 6.

SpyreX · Post Post #153 (ISO) » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:25 am

Ok, let's make this clear. I honestly don't think tubby is up for a lynch as of yet. His actions can be explained away with a simple explanation that he didn't realize he was rolefishing, and when pressured, it is simply a newbtell to resort to Appeal to Emotion.

I wanted to see how many people would follow in my wake if I pressured tubby for it. I'm looking at SpyreX right now, pretty hard, especially after he professed to being comfortable lynching tubby after page 5 and two valid but far from solid tells dropped.

unvote, vote: SpyreX

I really dont think that it was an accident. Everything about it screams overeager scum to me. The latest "Well Korts did it too" just reaffirms it.

I stand by the difference between "This list may have a purpose" and "This list shows power roles" as a scummy one.

As for saying I'm comfortable with his lynch. I am. Now, who knows, maybe someone will light themselves on a scum fire but until that day my vote can sit.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #154 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:07 am

A friendly reminder from your mod: Day 2 will have a mandatory deadline of only two weeks, plus any remaining deadline time from today. You should plan on lynching earlier rather than later or you will be very rushed later on.

hasdgfas · Post Post #155 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:18 am

analysis of game at its current point:
Pages 1-4

Post 13 - Korts: Something seems a bit off about this post to me. I don't know what it is right now, but I'm noting it for later.
Post 21 - Vi: Why respond to tubby's statement with anything besides to tell him to stop talking about it?
Post 27 - Korts: unvoting isn't constructive?
Post 28 - Vi: I'm pretty sure he was being serious. Why that response?
Post 31 - CC: Gah. I hate page arguments of any sort.
Post 33 - zazier: How is Korts showing special attention to CC?
Post 35 - Korts: False about the vote thing, actually.
Post 41 - spyre: GAH! PAGE ARGUMENT SIGHTED. Don't like the buddying-up to Korts
Post 42 - SSK: That's not answering his question.
Post 44 - spyre: How do you know the list is random?
Post 46 - morph: Really? No readings on anyone? I'm surprised.
Post 47 - tubby: Wow, really? OMGUS + appeal to emotion?
Post 51 - Vi: Don't like creating a fake PR here. Don't get the "policy lynch" comment on tubby,
Post 56 - CC: Really? Any explanation?
Post 64 - Crazy: The thing with setup speculation is that scum often have more knowledge of the setup than the town do and want to tell us subconciously.
Post 76 - tubby: Feels like a distancing vote to me
Post 77 - internet: And you're still not going to if you don't try to play the game.
Post 88 - DoomCow: I don't like this vote. Sure, the fake PR is anti-town, but you need more reasoning than that.
Post 94 - morph: You're adding a fake PR too? ridiculous.
Post 98 - SSK: Why is that the only thing you have to add?
Post 102 - SSK: What?

I'll finish this up later and then have some thoughts.
Also,

unvote

. Missed that that was still on after replacing.

farside22 · Post Post #156 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:27 am

DrippingGoofball wrote:
MafiaSSK wrote:DGB, why do you feel that worthy of a vote?
I can't think of any scenario where that's pro-town behavior. The only purpose is to hide oneself behind a 'restriction' to prolong personal survival in the game.

This coming from the girl who loves to start a BW day one at the start of the day, see's people joking on the first 3 pages as scummy?

FOS: DGB

Bad, bad reasoning.
My vote on tubby wasn't his rolefishing comment. It was more about when Crazy defended him, then to have tubby come back and vote him was just crazy. Not sure if it's newb confusion on newb scum confusion. They are both the same on this one.

Vi · Post Post #157 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:37 am

hasdgfas wrote:Post 21 - Vi: Why respond to tubby's statement with anything besides to tell him to stop talking about it?
Post 28 - Vi: I'm pretty sure he was being serious. Why that response?
Post 51 - Vi: Don't like creating a fake PR here. Don't get the "policy lynch" comment on tubby,

21) Bad reasoning. The part about him thinking it was related to power roles is understandable; calling it a pseudo-prod is an example of not thinking it all the way through.
28) I didn't think he was. Korts understood this and explained immediately afterward.
51) tubby said that someone has to get lynched and volunteered for the job. I denied both that he should be lynched and that we should have been lynching "because we have to" at that time.

ZazieR · Post Post #158 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:23 am

Cow wrote:Post 33 - zazier: How is Korts showing special attention to CC?

As CC09 wasn't the only one who unvoted and didn't vote afterwards. I was wondering about that why only CC09 caught Korts attention with this.
aka Korts attacked CC09 for not voting after his unvote, while others did that as well.

Korts · Post Post #159 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:20 am

hascow wrote:Post 27 - Korts: unvoting isn't constructive?

Not nearly as much early in the game as, say, voting. But let's not waste more words on this, this belongs to the MD forum at best.

hascow wrote:Post 35 - Korts: False about the vote thing, actually.

Probably, yes. But I didn't see CC09 trying much to find alternative routes to discussion.

animorpherv1 · Post Post #160 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:44 am

hasdgfas wrote:Post 94 - morph: You're adding a fake PR too? ridiculous.

What can I say? I felt like it.

SpyreX · Post Post #161 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:22 am

Post 41 - spyre: GAH! PAGE ARGUMENT SIGHTED. Don't like the buddying-up to Korts

More surprise that something that I find valid as a scumtell happened that early. The only "buddying" is the fact I agree with him on those points.

Post 44 - spyre: How do you know the list is random?

I dont "know" but I have every reason to believe it is random.

The Internet · Post Post #162 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:34 pm

I have been prodded. I'm sorry, but I can' contributte because I do not understand the tubby situation. I will hope to contribute more tommorrow.

CoheedCambria09 · Post Post #163 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:03 pm

Also been prodded, been really busy in RL

hasdgfas wrote: Post 31 - CC: Gah. I hate page arguments of any sort.

Note taken. Will have to reread to see what I actually said though.

Natirasha · Post Post #164 (ISO) » Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:15 am

I hope I'm not breaking my PR, but this is semi-important to the mod, please read my sig.

tubby216 · Post Post #165 (ISO) » Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:51 am

i will be V/LA untill wednesday the 12th

Crazy · Post Post #166 (ISO) » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:48 pm

Anyone believe that Korts really

was

making a case against tubby just to gauge reactions? I don't. Saying "Nevermind about all that stuff I was doing; I didn't really mean it" is a scum-tell in my book.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Vote: Korts

Crazy · Post Post #167 (ISO) » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:54 pm

Oh, about this fake post-restriction stuff; I don't see it as bad in any way.

Animorph didn't start posting in his restriction until his 3rd post, clearly showing he wasn't serious about it to begin with. Thus, it was a joke.

As for Vi, I don't see why she would drop it if she was deliberately faking it. I mean, it doesn't help the scum and it doesn't make her appear pro-town. What else is it that scum want? So why would she drop it?

Okay, now you're all screaming WIFOM, so let me push that thought out of your head. How often do you see scum doing something that appears scummy just to look pro-town? It's very elaborate; I've never seen it. I doubt that

you

have.

Vi · Post Post #168 (ISO) » Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:06 pm

Crazy 167 wrote:As for Vi, I don't see why she would drop it if she was deliberately faking it. I mean, it doesn't help the scum and it doesn't make her appear pro-town. What else is it that scum want? So why would she drop it?

Okay, now you're all screaming WIFOM,

WWWWWWWIIIIIIIIIIIFFFFFFFFFFOOOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!!!

...In all seriousness, I'm pretty sure I've mentioned already that I dropped the PR because it was lame and I was bored with it (both of them actually).

Re: Crazy 166 - I feel the wagon on tubby was forced, yes. As of yesterday, I was not sure whether to vote SpyreX or Korts for it, and I still need to do a reread on it. ...After I get some sleep.

SpyreX · Post Post #169 (ISO) » Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:23 pm

The faked PR's are null as far as I'm concerned.

Why is that wagon so forced? New or not, I'm not seeing any beneficial outcome from what he was trying to discuss at the point he was trying to discuss it.

If anyone had really bit, it might have been worth it for scum.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #170 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:47 am

I don't believe faking post restrictions is a null tell. At all.

CoheedCambria09 · Post Post #171 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:13 am

hasdgfas wrote: Post 56 - CC: Really? Any explanation?

It was me being a smartass in my own way. Korts wanted me to vote someone, as I didn't see anyone who had done anything particularly scummy, I voted for him, so it could also be interpretted as a OMGUS vote.

Vi · Post Post #172 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:24 am

All right, I've looked into the people who were against tubby.

Korts - I find myself agreeing with you about tubby being the most serious thing to talk about early on. I also agree that votes/lynches are good ways to discourage scumplay. However, by Korts 80 it sounded like he had made the jump to tubby

being

scum and extending it to Crazy being a scumpartner, which I don't agree with.

I think I'll err on the side of caution on this one and not vote Korts this time. But my (weak and usually incorrect) intuition is telling me I'm making a bad move on this one...

----

SpyreX - In SpyreX 57 he asks if the cute random voting stage is over, but he had already placed a NONrandom vote on tubby. Logic failure, check. I don't buy SpyreX 117, as I stated earlier.

SpyreX 169 wrote:Why is that wagon so forced? New or not, I'm not seeing any beneficial outcome from what he was trying to discuss at the point he was trying to discuss it.

If anyone had really bit, it might have been worth it for scum.

...Help me out; I'm not sure I follow this line of logic. What *could* have happened that would have been so beneficial for scum?

----

farside - I'm not sure about this one. On one hand, it IS jumping on an easy bandwagon; on the other hand, she has defended her point a couple of times. I don't think I have enough information to move on here.

----

DoomCow - If you don't talk more about why exactly you dislike tubby, you'll get lynched for jumping onto obvious bandwagons. I'd like a post of reasonable substance from you shortly.

----

Thus, waiting on DoomCow and SpyreX. As far as placing a vote goes,

DGb 170 wrote:I don't believe faking post restrictions is a null tell. At all.

I don't believe faking scum hunting is a null tell. At all.

Vote: DrippingGoofball

(L-7)

SpyreX · Post Post #173 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:27 am

SpyreX - In SpyreX 57 he asks if the cute random voting stage is over, but he had already placed a NONrandom vote on tubby. Logic failure, check. I don't buy SpyreX 117, as I stated earlier.

That's half right - I wasn't ever referring to my vote.

Ok, are we still in the cute joke voting stage or have we moved to reality?

I ask, specifically, for the Coheed and Tubby votes that just jumped up.

...Help me out; I'm not sure I follow this line of logic. What *could* have happened that would have been so beneficial for scum?

I'll toss up the list so I can explain a bit better.

MafiaSSK - 3 (farside22, Korts, ZazieR)
ZazieR - 3 (Natirasha, Crazy, DrippingGoofball)
farside22 - 2 (DoomCow, Vi)
CoheedCambria09 - 2 (CoheedCambria09, SpyreX)
Crazy - 1 (tubby216)
Scattered - 1 (The Internet)
animorpherv1 - 1 (MafiaSSK)
The Internet - 1 (animorpherv1)
Korts - 1 (Scattered)

Tell me if it had went something like this (the is a very dumbed down version, but):

Tubby: I think the people with votes have PR's.
SSK: You're probably right.
SpyreX: No, I dont think it has anything to do with it.
ZazieR: I agree with SpyreX.

Now, if we weren't -thinking- when we answered that it could be assumed that:
1.) SSK is a PR
2.) I am a PR.
3.) Zazier is not.

Could they be lying / having that opinion without any basis of their role? Sure. However, the chance of them telling the truth is high enough it would have been useful. Further - what good does that conjecture do in

killing scum

? The focus on Roles versus Alignments I think is a tell and a large enough one to warrant my vote.

hasdgfas · Post Post #174 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:41 am

Pages 5-Current

Post 105 - Vi: Can you see Korts's vote from his perspective and how he may feel it's justified?
Post 107 - Crazy: Woah, the "he's a newbie" defense. Also, you may do certain things as scum, but that doesn't mean everyone does the same. Can he not be newbie scum?
Post 108 - tubby: Ah, I see now. tubby, if you made a big case with reasoning against Korts, it would not be considered OMGUS(by me at least), because it's a case. Not just voting for them. This post seems sincere to me.
Post 122 - DGB: Anything else?
Post 127 - Vi: Aw, thanks. I appreciate it. Didn't know I had that kind of reputation.
Post 135 - SSK: Why do you not play games that you've signed up for?
Post 136 - tubby: Ok, this looks a bit bad after pressure has slightly lessened up on you, now you're not talking. I'm not a big fan of this.
Post 137 - DGB: Maybe, but have they done anything else scummy? After all, both were obviously fake PRs.
Post 143 - tubby: If you're town, why are you putting the hypothetical out there that says "if I flip scum"?
Post 144 - Korts: ALERT! ALERT! PAGE ARGUMENT SIGHTED!
Post 149 - DoomCow: Wow, what a wonderful noncommital post.
Post 151 - DoomCow: Why do you think he's the option?
Post 159 - Korts: No, we can totally talk about it here, since we can't talk about it out of game. Why push this conversation to the side when it could have bearing on the game?
Post 162 - Internet: Can you please post something regarding the game?
Post 166 - Crazy: I think it's perfectly valid. Why don't you?
Post 167 - Crazy: This is blatant WIFOM. Scum could totally do something scummy so people claim it's too scummy to be scum.
Post 170 - DGB: I don't believe not scumhunting is a town tell.

Thoughts:
DBG needs to actually scumhunt instead of pretending to. Slight scumminess at this point.
SSK needs to post or be replaced. I'd prefer the latter. neutral.
Crazy feels off to me. I also think his defense of tubby is a little bit too strong. Medium Scumminess
DoomCow: Hasn't posted any analysis. Just information. I(and tarhalindur) find that scummy. High scumminess.
spyrex: I don't know about him. May need to reread him.
CC: Needs to post more. I haven't seen much from him.
Korts: Seems a bit off to me, especially that page argument from him in post 144. I really didn't like that.
zazier seems really quiet to me. I've seen her post more often than this. Why haven't you said much?
morph: The fake PR just seems like it was there because Vi did it. He also hasn't given any contribution to the game, but has posted enough that it doesn't look like he's lurking. Explanation for his vote on Crazy seems like distancing. High scumminess.

vote: DoomCow
FoS: morph, Crazy