667: Random C9 (Game Over!)

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

M-M, your perspective on the objections I raised would be nice, since apparently I was defending you

I thought your argument with elderad ended up as pretty much a tie.

Run numbers. See what each setup says for 2 mafia goons, and goon-RB. I think under the goon-RB setup it would be a worthwhile gambit for the scum. Same under 2 goons. You're also underestimating the power of outing the cop in either of those setups, not to mention that the 1-in-7 possibility of double-cop would discourage a cop counter-claim plus make the cop fakeclaim a lot more tempting for the scum.

So are you saying that it's always worthwhile for scum to cop-gambit no matter what the setup is?

---

So after my reread here is my updated suspicion list from most to least with comments:

Elderad - In addition to actions of his predecessor, I find the timing of elderad's votes on afatchic and charter to be troubling, more so for afatchic. In both cases it seemed like he tries to get his feet wet in expressing suspicions and then pounces with votes when the suspicion for both had increased to levels that make his votes look better.

JDodge - I consider the avoidance-of-game-while-very-active-elsewhere scumtell to be quite reliable. I eagerly await his promised expanded case on afatchic.

afatchic - I can buy some aspects of the lack-of-scumhunting case against him, especially since he kept breaking his promises for scumhunting contribution even though he had the time to post many times about smaller matters.

charter - Although I don't agree with it, charter's stance on afatchic is understandable. I actually think the recent instances of frustration in his posts is a town tell.

Vi - Most town tells out of everyone.

Moospiker - Cop claim still very solid. However is currently on a worrying trend of making non-contributive and unhelpful posts (e.g. 226, 249, 268, 270, 273).

[eldarad]

I find the timing of elderad's votes on afatchic and charter to be troubling, more so for afatchic. In both cases it seemed like he tries to get his feet wet in expressing suspicions and then pounces with votes when the suspicion for both had increased to levels that make his votes look better.

Maybe this is a playstyle thing.
I never FoS, so if I don't vote, I express my suspicions in words. Also note, that in both of the cases you mention, I have actively contributed to the level of suspicion on the person concerned. It's not like I've just sidled onto a bandwagon - I've helped build it before adding my vote.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I now believe that afatchicscum and charterscum to be mutually exclusive. The amount of linkage that charter is creating with afatchic is so blatant as to be implausible for them both to be scum.

[Simenon]

Vote Count

eldarad (2)- Mach-Mafia, charter
charter (2)- Vi, eldarad
afatchic (1)- Jdodge
Vi (1)- Moospiker
No Vote- afatchic

Deadline: November 16

[charter]

Prods please

People, vote eld.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

@mod

: Are Vi and elderad voting for two different charters?

@Moospiker: Who do you suspect more between elderad and charter?

[Moospiker]

Charter, I don't see much wrong with Eld. Charter seems to just say 'waiting for XXXX to get lynched' and leaves it there. 278, for instance.

[charter]

It's not the first time I've done it. We're on page 12, I don't see anything else useful being said today.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

With the current state 3 out of 7 players essentially non-existent (afatchic, JDodge, Moospiker), this game going won't go anywhere.

Plus JDodge has now broken his promise of analysis on afatchic. I'm now equally willing to lynch JDodge as elderad.

[charter]

Prods please

People, vote eld.

[eldarad]

Plus JDodge has now broken his promise of analysis on afatchic. I'm now equally willing to lynch JDodge as elderad.

If this is genuinely the only choice, then I would change my vote to JD before deadline. But I don't think JD is the best lynch Today. Moreover, I don't think we are at a point where it is such a simple either/or decision.

charter has now made a point of only antagonising one person (me) Today, despite being persistently aggressive. That would quite neatly set him up for Tomorrow in that he "put his money where his mouth was" even though he has successfully managed to avoid expressing an opinion on anyone except me.

MM, how would you characterise charter's play Today? Are you satisfied with charter's breadth and depth of scumhunting?

charter, do you think a JDodge lynch would provide as much information as an afatchic lynch? Or would it provide more, or less? Assuming that an eldarad lynch is not possible Today, who would your second-choice be?

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

MM, how would you characterise charter's play Today? Are you satisfied with charter's breadth and depth of scumhunting?

The best word that comes to mind is consistency. Charter stood by the issues that he took a stance on such as only focusing on suspicious people, maintaining no-claimed-power-role-lynched-day-1 while emphasizing Moospiker-scum, and explaining the afatchic-town-but-lynch-will-provide-info rationale. So in connection with that, yes I am satisfied with charter's scumhunting because he has stuck to his guns in attacking Moospiker and Avinyl/you extensively.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Mod:

what's the current status on prods and possible replacements?

[Vi]

Posting before prod.

It would appear we have a giant stalemate. Some replacements may break that up...

[Simenon]

Mod:

what's the current status on prods and possible replacements?

Will update tomorrow. It looks like afatchic is going to be replaced, though.

[afatchic]

Mod:

what's the current status on prods and possible replacements?

Will update tomorrow. It looks like afatchic is going to be replaced, though.

Looks like i got here just in time... started my catching up tonight. try to finish tomorrow.

[afatchic]

It's not even that you're defending afatchic. It's that you completely refuse to even discuss anything else.

how does he completely refuse to drop it, yet you keep asking him questions about it? this doesn't add up to me.

[eldarad]

how does he completely refuse to drop it, yet you keep asking him questions about it? this doesn't add up to me.

By "anything else" I was referring to charter's "eldarad and Moo are scum, therefore no-one can possibly be scum and we shouldn't even be discussing it" line.

Do you think that my asking questions of charter is scummy? Or are the questions themselves scummy, rather than the asking of them?
What do you think about charter's refusal to engage in any further discussion?

[charter]

Eld, stop. I never said the second half of that sentence that you put in quotes. A blatent falsification.

[Simenon]

Jdodge posted on Tuesday.
afatchic posted today.
Moospiker posted on Sunday (prod)
Vi posted on Wednesday.
charter posted today.
Mach Mafia posted on Wednesday.
eldarad posted today.

Prodding Moospiker

[Vi]

Looks like i got here just in time... started my catching up tonight. try to finish tomorrow.

I hope you're not done...

-----

Eld, stop. I never said the second half of that sentence that you put in quotes. A blatent falsification.

It would be more accurate to say the milder "afatchic is not scum because eldarad and Moospiker are, and I'm not interested in hearing much else"~
That last part is, after all, the flip side of "consistency" as M-M put it.

[charter]

Vi said "I'm scum guys! Lynch me!" See why I don't want people go around saying I said stuff I didn't?

[Vi]

"afatchic is not scum because eldarad and Moospiker are, and I'm not interested in hearing much else"

--

Do you think afatchic is scum then?

No, but what I mean when I say I'm not opposed to an afatchic lynch is that his lynch will give lots of information regardless of his alignment. It isn't an obvious mislynch.

@charter: Why don't you think afatchic is scum?

Mostly because I think it's eld and moo, and there isn't room for him.

I do not think afatchic is scum. I think Moo/eld are scum. I think afatchic's lynch will give us lots of information to go into day two with and will be a good lynch.

Don't ask me again, I'll ignore everything you write from now on if you do. I'm tired of wasting time not lynching eld and talking about afatchic. If that's who you guys want to lynch, you're going to do it without my vote, get used to the idea.

Vi, I siad I THINK they are scum, not that I've solved the game already.

(...)

No, it's quite possible he's scum. I don't think he is, but he's certainly not what I'd consider an obvious mislynch.

I suppose you have a point in that not much else has been asked. In which case I'll ask what you think of M-M's suspicion of JDodge, who is neither eldarad nor Moospiker.

Day 2 is LyLo in this setup if the kill goes through. Is it okay to lynch someone you don't think is scum at this point?

[charter]

I don't understand what just went on. Vi, you get that I'm calling eld out for his blatent trying to make it seem like I said or insinuated something I never have?

I would have to go back and reread JDodge, he really hasn't done much in this game, but I haven't thought him very scummy.

Is it okay to lynch someone you don't think is scum at this point?

No.

[Vi]

So you

disagree

with the quoted Posts 239 and 259?

Vi, you get that I'm calling eld out for his blatent trying to make it seem like I said or insinuated something I never have?

I get that. I'm also saying that eldarad was not extremely far from the truth while being incorrect.

[eldarad]

Eld, stop. I never said the second half of that sentence that you put in quotes. A blatent falsification.

It's a shame that you haven't been able to show

how

it is blatantly false. And if it were so blatant, it would be pretty easy to show how wrong I was, wouldn't it?
In what way is my summary of your position misrepresenting you? Provide quotes.

I was referring to charter's "eldarad and Moo are scum, therefore no-one can possibly be scum and we shouldn't even be discussing it" line.

Do you hold the opinion that afatchic isn't scum because the scumpair is eldarad and Moospiker?

I do not think afatchic is scum. I think Moo/eld are scum. I think afatchic's lynch will give us lots of information to go into day two with and will be a good lynch.

Don't ask me again, I'll ignore everything you write from now on if you do. I'm tired of wasting time not lynching eld and talking about afatchic. If that's who you guys want to lynch, you're going to do it without my vote, get used to the idea.

Do you believe that discussion about afatchic is a distraction from the eldwagon? Do you think this is a bad thing?
If so, how is my summary misrepresenting your position?
If not, what is the purpose of posts 278, 281, 283?

what I mean when I say I'm not opposed to an afatchic lynch is that his lynch will give lots of information regardless of his alignment. It isn't an obvious mislynch.

Do you believe that an afatchic lynch will give us more, less, or the same amount of information as, for example, a JDodge lynch?