Mini #682: C9++ (Game Over!)

[iamausername]

Votecount #21!

sekinj (3) - Wall-E, CF Riot, germy
Scheherazade (2) - mykonian, Kairyuu
Artem (1) - SilverPhoenix

Not voting (5) - Scheherazade, Artem, Scigatt, wolframnhart, sekinj

6 to lynch.

[SilverPhoenix]

Yesterday he tried to spread some uncertainty, and today he continue's. Weak scum.
... Please tell me who is scum, then

1) That was because I didn't particularly feel that a SL lynch was right, and was it really?

2) Look who my vote is on. I have brought some evidence forward about Artem already. And it seems you agree with me, too!

going after artem now.

I'm certainly not trying to spread uncertainty, but trying to nullify it. We were all uncertain yesterday about the people that were close to being lynched, and ended up essentially taking a shot in the dark. I feel like that the people targeting the same people yesterday for the same reasons are taking that same uncertainty to today by not analyzing the full effects that N1 have on today, and I feel that it will turn again into a lynch that no one really wants.
However, that doesn't mean I am not suspicious of people. Your sense of entitlement because you have claimed doesn't win my approval, which actually makes me more suspicious of you. I am suspicious of Artem because of what I said before (although I will go further in-depth later, as he brought up weaker points about my case). I am somewhat suspicious of sekinj for her wishy-washyness that I explained yesterday and that she sort-of continued today. I am slightly suspicious of mykonian for his sense of entitlement as a claimed town (just because you claimed town, doesn't mean your instincts about who are scum are correct, a slightly-related version of bare assertion fallacy) and his comments about wanting to not lynch germy (the town doesn't care who they shouldn't lynch, as it just gives ideas to the scum who to NK).

[Artem]

(Hey folks, the game is moving faster than what I have the time to spare for. I pmed the mod requesting a replacement. Good luck, all. It's been fun.)

[wolframnhart]

@CF_Riot

Sorry i honestly must have missed the first time you asked me that question. A couple of my suspicions have changed from yesterday, bbut nothing so valid that i am going to act upon them right now. I honestly am looking at Wall-E right now, and not extremely hard, but I find it odd that he votes someone but doesn't/hasn't listed the reasons why, nor have i really seen anyone ask him for them (unless they have and i missed that too). It is not a big thing, but just something i found odd thats all. And yes, the lack of night kills did change my opinions a bit, my recent post i thought made that part clear.

[Scheherazade]

@wolframnhart: I think we're with you...

Hello, Mr. Secretive. I see you're out to make friends. I'd like to hear those reasons you mentioned as soon as they're declassified.

@Wall-E: Welcome, welcome. Hope to see your reasoning become clear in due time.

And @Wall-E - I don't appreciate your reasons being kept secret. If you have a case against me, then bring it, otherwise unvote. I'm not going to sit here mute while you continue voting for me with zero justification.

@Artem: Good-bye.

@SilverPhoenix: Would you walk me through the analysis of night one you feel has most influenced your suspicions, please? Also, did you hear back from the mod on your little investigation? Would you care to share?

[mykonian]

I worded it strange, but I'm far from going after Artem, it mend I thought it weird for you to do. And I don't say I'm right about who is scum, yesterday I was wrong. That doesn't mean I stop looking for scum and leaving it to you. I'm going to vote for the people I think scum, I will try to confince you of that.

You want me to choose new targets, because things happened before SL's lynch. Apart from Scigatt nothing seemed that obvious to me. (now I have to say Artems hammer wasn't strong). Were these the things you meant?

[wolframnhart]

@wolframnhart: I think we're with you...

Hello, Mr. Secretive. I see you're out to make friends. I'd like to hear those reasons you mentioned as soon as they're declassified.

@Wall-E: Welcome, welcome. Hope to see your reasoning become clear in due time.

And @Wall-E - I don't appreciate your reasons being kept secret. If you have a case against me, then bring it, otherwise unvote. I'm not going to sit here mute while you continue voting for me with zero justification.

@Artem: Good-bye.

@SilverPhoenix: Would you walk me through the analysis of night one you feel has most influenced your suspicions, please? Also, did you hear back from the mod on your little investigation? Would you care to share?

I feel so dumb when i see things like that, three, THREE, people have said something about Wall-E's vote with no reason posted and i either read them and they didn't register, or i skimmed them. Either way i am gonna were a dunce hat for the rest of the day

[SilverPhoenix]

@SilverPhoenix: Would you walk me through the analysis of night one you feel has most influenced your suspicions, please? Also, did you hear back from the mod on your little investigation? Would you care to share?

Not specifically Night 1, but the events surrounding it, including some events today. I just don't won't people to seem flippant about
Mykonian has been on my scumdar for a long time. Even after he claimed, I found that he had a sense of entitlement (isolated posts 80, 81, 44) surrounding his claim, which doesn't help the town at all as his view as to who is scum is the same as mine, not better simply because he claimed. That was the most striking thing. He seems to bounce around a bit, but that's not too important, as he does so to who he thinks is scummy at the time. The recent comments he made (80,81) brought up that suspicion again. Of course, he claimed, so he is at the bottom of my list.

Then there is sekinj, for her wishy-washyness. I outlined this in my isolated post 19, which she responded pretty defensive to, feeling that I made the case against her because of her comment about me sitting on the fence, which I responded to in post 22. She has pretty much stuck to herself in terms of playstyle, so I put her next.

Finally, Artem. The biggest spat in this game was arguably between him and Kairyuu, not that he would like to admit it. He has a constant record of picking up on pro-town positions many posts after they have been made by others already (Isolated posts 20 (mentioned scum gambit was too thin), 21-22 (attack and lynch of SL), 25) Although those posts were direct questions, I feel that he didn't need to think about the answers because the answers already provided were "enough" and he didn't want to volunteer information.

About the second part....in due time. The time is not right, especially now that we need another replacement.

[CF Riot]

I honestly am looking at Wall-E right now, and not extremely hard, but I find it odd that he votes someone but doesn't/hasn't listed the reasons why. It is not a big thing, but just something i found odd thats all.

So would you consider that a scummy move, a suspicious move, or are they one in the same to you? What's your stance on Sekinj? If you are considering Wall-E as a suspect, what's your opinion on the connections between the two? That is to say, do you think their alignments are the same, opposite, or have no correlation and why?

I also don't like how shez seems to love everything that wall-e is saying, like it's gospel or something.

Is this really aimed at Zade or someone else? (Typo?) I can't find what you're talking about here in the thread anywhere.

Zade:

I hope you're town because I think you and I think a LOT alike, which makes it sort of hard to read you. One thing I would like from you though is for you to make a few assertions today. You've mostly been defending/arguing with Kairyuu and you said you still suspect Sek but I don't see you voting him or FoSing any other players. From just before you voted SL yesterday, has your suspicion of Sek gone up, down, or remained roughly the same?

All:

Who thinks a Scigatt wagon would be in order about now? Yay or Nay? I vote Yay.

[germy]

I am becoming increasingly suspicious of CF_Riot and wolftamnhart. My "scumbuddydar" is pinging like crazy.

These are silly questions you are asking, and reek of fishing. If a townie says they are not going to reveal their reasoning right away, it's better not to push them. If they're mafia, they won't say anything, anyway. It sounds like wolframnhart is trying to build suspicion on someone for this.

Also, only power roles could possibly have any relevant "thoughts on Night actions." The only thoughts ordinary townies will have regarding N1 would be, "Wow, cool. Maybe we have a doc or blocker, probably not an SK." Any significant thoughts

beyond

this would imply a power role, and it seems like that's the information CF_Riot is looking for.

[Scheherazade]

@wolframnhart: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel bad. I just didn't want you to think we were all ignoring Wall-E or siding with him.

@SilverPhoenix: Thank you for your post. I'm still interested in the information you garnered, when you're ready to share.

@CF Riot: You're right, I've been holding off making assertions for previously stated reasons.

I've been waiting to vote for sekinj again until after I see her reaction to the events of the night. Her non-reaction and somewhat irritated sounding posts do make her seem more suspicious to me. I'd still like an answer to the questions I asked her earlier--I'd like to start a dialogue, but she seems hostile to that with you.

Also, I'd rather Scigatt simply posted more before I vote for him. Do you think he's mafia based on his behaviour or do you simply want to wagon him to force him to defend himself? I realise that I might be rewarding "lurking" behaviour here...

@germy: Is there anything else you see that implies a connection between CF Riot and wolframnhart? And what do you mean by "reek of fishing?" That they're trying to get a townie to expose his thinking before he's ready?

[Scigatt]

@Scigatt:

Okay, what the heck is the case on Scheherazade? I've read hers and afat's posts but nothing seems scummy enough to warrant this attention.

Read my and myko's posts from D1. Both of us outlined out own specific cases several times.

I read your stuff only on afat/zade in the first 300 posts or so. There are my impressions.

post 62 & 73:
Looking at the and the posts they refer to, it seems to me you have overstated your case. Reading Afat's first post after Germy's claim I see no implorations for others to claim, not even millers. Personally, I think you were reading way too much into the text than was there.

[Scigatt]

Accidentally hit Submit instead of Preview

post 257.
Point 1: Like I said, I think this interpretation of his posts is too speculative.

Point 2: I'm wondering what would you have accepted as an explanation. Also, whether you think that a player's actions violate the spirit of the game has nothing to do with whether they are scum or town.

Point 3:This, I think is a good point, but I think Zade addressed that adequately in the next post.

Point 4:I'm not sure on this either way. It seem that both of you were arguing over a few words on this.

Post 272:
Nothing much on this except for one thing.

Finally, just because your predecessor didn't do it doesn't make it any less scummy for you to make up for lost time.

Making up time is scummy?

I may have missed some arument of yours, though, so do not hesitate to mention any gaps.

[wolframnhart]

So would you consider that a scummy move, a suspicious move, or are they one in the same to you? What's your stance on Sekinj? If you are considering Wall-E as a suspect, what's your opinion on the connections between the two? That is to say, do you think their alignments are the same, opposite, or have no correlation and why?

I think it is suspicious but not necessarily scummy, which is why i said it wasn't a big thing. I am unconvinced Sek is scum atm, the "connection" between the two could be more of a townie vs townie.

@CF_Riot Why are you so interested in everyone else's opinion?


@Germy
I understand where you are coming from and can't blame you, the reasoning behind me saying that it was weird Wall-E didn't post anything on his vote against Sek is only because I don't see why someone should be able to vote for no reason, and how is what i have said different from what Zade and Kair have said? Or Sek for that matter wantign to know why she was voted?

@Zade
you didn't make me feel bad, i just felt stupid for missing those posts and am glad someone pointed them out to me before i made myself even more of an ass later on down the road LoL.

[mykonian]

unvote vote Scigatt

Finally, just because your predecessor didn't do it doesn't make it any less scummy for you to make up for lost time.

Making up time is scummy?

I don't have the time to do a reread of everything he says now, but I clearly remember this, and this is placing things out of context. I don't like it.

[SilverPhoenix]

unvote vote Scigatt

Finally, just because your predecessor didn't do it doesn't make it any less scummy for you to make up for lost time.

Making up time is scummy?

I don't have the time to do a reread of everything he says now, but I clearly remember this, and this is placing things out of context. I don't like it.

WHAT?
You can't read the thread, but since he's trying to, you find him scummy for that? That's just low....

[sekinj]

Posts in isolation from Shez regarding Wall-e

p24 - "Hello, Mr. Secretive. I see you're out to make friends. I'd like to hear those reasons you mentioned as soon as they're declassified. I hope I'm not asking for anything sensitive, but you would have advocated lynching germy for his softclaim on day one? What are your reasons for that? "

----She let's Wall-e slide for give ZERO rationale to his vote. Passively asks for reasons regarding his opinion on germy

p25 - "@Wall-E: I follow you so far. Are you unhappy now that we haven't lynched germy? Has there been anything in this game so far in which germy's information would have been crucial?"

----Looks like she is waiting for wall-e to give her a reason to agree with him.

Maybe I am just reading these wrong, but Shez just seems to be leting wall-e get away with saying anything. Instead of challenging him on something she seems to be trying to make him happy?? Both of these posts to me are Shez giving wall-e clearance to vote without justification and clearance to advocate the lynch of germy who most would say was in 3rd place for most confirmed townie. Why does Wall-e get the kid-gloce treatment from Shez? WHy is she afraid of hurting his feelings?!??!

[Wall-E]

Are you talking about Scheherazade?

I agree that if she/he expects me to hang and prove her more townie by defending me, the above statements would be a good scumtell on zade.

But.

Considering the source, namely you, I have to take this with a grain of salt.

[sekinj]

Take it with whatever you want. I like how you are so ready to throw her under the bus in order to show how townie you are. You haven't stated any REAL suspicion of her yet, but as soon as something is mentioned tying you together, there you are with rope in hand.

This is all I can find that you have said about Shez (in reponse to Kair I believe):

I agree with your comments about zade. It may be a misunderstanding on zade's part, but I'd have to hear how from him/her before making that judgment call for sure.

Way to sit the fence.

[SilverPhoenix]

Considering the source, namely you, I have to take this with a grain of salt.

Innocent until proven guilty? /shrug

Just a thought.

[Wall-E]

Are you talking about Scheherazade?

I agree that

if

she/he expects me to hang and prove her more townie by defending me, the above statements would be a good scumtell on zade.

But.

Considering the source, namely you, I have to take this with a grain of salt.

[sekinj]

I'd prefer you take it with a rope around your neck.

[Wall-E]

So you went from wanting zade dead to wanting me dead, then?

[Scheherazade]

@sekinj: Well, I'm actively trying to hurt anybody's feelings. In the posts you mentioned...

I'd like to hear those reasons you mentioned as soon as they're declassified.

...was a reference to his reasons for voting for you. I guess it wasn't very clear right next to questions about his suspicion of germy. I do give proof of my intention in post 529 to wolframnhart.

I was pursuing the line of questioning about his suspicions of germy because I didn't quite know if his comment was a threat of some sort against germy.

His mentioning the softclaim also made me wonder if he saw some flaw in germy's posts that I missed indicating that he was deceiving us.

If it seems like I'm treating Wall-E with a different tone, I don't quite know what to say. I was a bit ironic in the first post, but otherwise I think that I'm treating him the same, more or less, as any other player so far.

[sekinj]

So you went from wanting zade dead to wanting me dead, then?

No. I went from not liking the interaction between the two of you to suspecting you of being scum. Not a huge leap. You just gave me a nice set-up line

twice

and I just couldn't resist it the second time.

Dismissing my arguement because you suspect me of being scum is just an easy/lazy way out.