Mini 650: Over

[Electra]

@ Sensfan - I did not know that anyone who would be protected twice by different doctors would die. It does not say so in my role description. I only knew that I could not protect someone twice in a row, or they would die. I should have made the connection that Kmd's protection and mine would count as an overdose, which is why it was annoying. However, I didn't fully believe Kmd's roleclaim since, like you, I couldn't really see how there would be two docs. So I protected Light, which I thought was the safe thing to do to ensure that Light would survive.

Problems with your theory-

1) Do you think Mafia kills by overdose?
2) If there is an SK, he will assume that the Mafia will kill the doc, and therefore, he will kill someone else. It would be a not very smart SK to kill someone that the Mafia would probably kill anyway. The SK doesn't know if the Mafia has a roleblocker.

[[jas]]

Wall-E replaces fyzxs.

A post by him has just been removed since I had not yet introduced him.

[Wall-E]

Hey, cool. Free mulligan on my first post. I found some more stuff. I'll post it soonish.

[SensFan]

@ Sensfan - I did not know that anyone who would be protected twice by different doctors would die. It does not say so in my role description. I only knew that I could not protect someone twice in a row, or they would die. I should have made the connection that Kmd's protection and mine would count as an overdose, which is why it was annoying. However, I didn't fully believe Kmd's roleclaim since, like you, I couldn't really see how there would be two docs. So I protected Light, which I thought was the safe thing to do to ensure that Light would survive.

So please, explain why you thought Scum would 'counter-claim' their scumbuddy. And don't bring me into this, if I was a Doctor yesterday, I would have assumed at 90%ish that Kmd was real.

[Electra]

@ Sensfan - I did not know that anyone who would be protected twice by different doctors would die. It does not say so in my role description. I only knew that I could not protect someone twice in a row, or they would die. I should have made the connection that Kmd's protection and mine would count as an overdose, which is why it was annoying. However, I didn't fully believe Kmd's roleclaim since, like you, I couldn't really see how there would be two docs. So I protected Light, which I thought was the safe thing to do to ensure that Light would survive.

So please, explain why you thought Scum would 'counter-claim' their scumbuddy. And don't bring me into this, if I was a Doctor yesterday, I would have assumed at 90%ish that Kmd was real.

I didn't know if he was scum or a doctor. Maybe he was town counterclaiming to get afat lynched. Maybe he was some random weird role. The point is that I figured protecting Light was the best thing to do to ensure survival - just pointing out that if the Mafia did have a roleblocker, and then roleblocked Kmd, then if I protected him, Light would survive. I didn't really think that two separate doc protections would be hurtful in any situation.

[Electra]

Also, you didn't address my problems with your theory.

[Corvuus]

Electra:

I want you to do a post by post analysis of yourself. Just say what you were thinking at the time you were posting it and you don't need to do *all* your posts just the ones from when you replaced in to the start of day 2 and the post about SK. (post #501 i think).

You don't have to be explicit, but just start with Arafat claiming Doc. You *know* he is lying like kmd knew he was lying; and just go from there. It should be simple.

Then you could maybe add on who you think the mafia is.

Corv

[Corvuus]

I also would like to hear what others think about Electra's claim and everything going on with it.

In particular, Sir and Omni since I think you are the only two I am willing to vote to lynch today.

Corvuus

[SensFan]

I didn't know if he was scum or a doctor.

Right, sorry. Forgot how often scum fakecounter their buddies on Day 1 for no reason.

Maybe he was town counterclaiming to get afat lynched.

You don't even believe that, so why would you think you would convince me?

Maybe he was some random weird role.

Again, no. He was Doc or Scum. And see point 1 for why he wasn't Scum.

The point is that I figured protecting Light was the best thing to do to ensure survival - just pointing out that if the Mafia did have a roleblocker, and then roleblocked Kmd, then if I protected him, Light would survive.

First plausible thing you've said.

I didn't really think that two separate doc protections would be hurtful in any situation.

Oh, that's a very good point. It's such a shame your supposed Doc PM didn't specifically mention that someone being protected twice would die, eh?

[SensFan]

1) Do you think Mafia kills by overdose?
2) If there is an SK, he will assume that the Mafia will kill the doc, and therefore, he will kill someone else. It would be a not very smart SK to kill someone that the Mafia would probably kill anyway. The SK doesn't know if the Mafia has a roleblocker.

1) I don't give a rat's ass if they do or not. I do not believe [jas] or clammy are bad enough mods to give any sort of hints into causes of death in the flavour.
2) Whoo, nightkill speculation. Probably the least productive discussion one can have...

[SensFan]

In particular, Sir and Omni since I think you are the only two I am willing to vote to lynch today.

Note that I don't see myself unvoting Electra, unless its a choice between someone else (even me) and a No Lynch.

[Electra]

@ Sensfan - Uh... that's not being a bad mod. That's choosing to have different death scenario per killing method. It's the mod telling us things because he chooses to.

Also, you're the one who speculated about the nightkills first.

I guess you are just a bad player and therefore will stick to your false belief that I am scum until tomorrow when I am found

shot

by the Mafia.

Electra:

I want you to do a post by post analysis of yourself. Just say what you were thinking at the time you were posting it and you don't need to do *all* your posts just the ones from when you replaced in to the start of day 2 and the post about SK. (post #501 i think).

You don't have to be explicit, but just start with Arafat claiming Doc. You *know* he is lying like kmd knew he was lying; and just go from there. It should be simple.

Then you could maybe add on who you think the mafia is.

Corv

Uh... okay, I guess. In a bit.

[SensFan]

I guess you are just a bad player

I have talked about this before, I believe. Anyways, this is the last ad hominem attack I will endure in this game. Any more, and I'm getting replaced. I replaced into this game because I think clammy is an awesome person, and he is one of the better former Newbs that I have seen in my time ICing. I don't play Mafia to be insulted, though, and I don't plan on starting.

[Corvuus]

don't be replaced SF .

I am not 100% sure what you are, but I think overall it would be bad if you left ;(.

-----

I guess in terms of possible scenarios:

Scenario A: (ignoring Electra doc claim)

Mafia has roleblocker and roleblocked doc and killed cop. There has to be a SK that then targeted and killed the doc. (assuming no town roleblocker or Vigilante would play so badly).

Scenario B: (considering Electra doc claim to be true)

Mafia CAN NOT have a roleblocker as claimed doc would have been blocked. Mafia without roleblocker targeted Doc while both Docs tried to save cop which ended up overdosing the cop by 'accident'.

In this scenario there MAY be a SK if they happened to target the doc or did no night kill.

Before Electra claimed, Scenario A seemed to be the only plausible possibility. If we consider Electra's claim to be true (2 docs and 1 cop in a game), how likely is it that the mafia would also *not* get a role block? I don't want to mod wifom (or whatever you call it) but I am beginning to think that just for balance reasons, if scenario B was true, then there *has* to be a SK, or a mafia roleblocker or some variation thereof... but then scenario B begins to become more and more unlikely.

At what point does scenario B become so unlikely that I decide Electra is lying? I don't know.

I guess my big problem with everything is that Electra's early voting to kill arafat and subsequent posts implies that, at least to her, she was operating under Scenario B.

Scenario B seems to be so outlandish that would any 'SK/scum' think to invent or claim this? I doubt it. To say she 'softclaimed' to use it for herself later isn't correct either. Most likely it was frustration at having killed the person she was trying to save (Scenario B) and she posted on it without thinking about it too much.

There are various other unexplained things, but that is why I hope Electra posting her play by play thoughts might resolve or expose inconsistencies.

Corv

[iamausername]

If we consider Electra's claim to be true (2 docs and 1 cop in a game), how likely is it that the mafia would also *not* get a role block? I don't want to mod wifom (or whatever you call it) but I am beginning to think that just for balance reasons, if scenario B was true, then there *has* to be a SK, or a mafia roleblocker or some variation thereof... but then scenario B begins to become more and more unlikely.

Don't forget that any one person can only be protected once before being overdosed. That kind of counteracts the need for a roleblocker/SK to balance the setup in this scenario.

Sens, do you think Electra is mafia or SK? Whichever it is, what do you think her motivation was for saying the things she did about there being no SK at the start of the day?

[SensFan]

Sens, do you think Electra is mafia or SK? Whichever it is, what do you think her motivation was for saying the things she did about there being no SK at the start of the day?

I don't give a rat's ass if she's Mafia ot SK. I don't think she's a Doc, so she gets my vote. Her ad hominem and appeal to emotion (etirety of last post) isn't helping her case.

[SensFan]

@ Sensfan - Uh... that's not being a bad mod. That's choosing to have different death scenario per killing method. It's the mod telling us things because he chooses to.

I don't think a Mini Normal should ever have confirmable flavour.

[Corvuus]

ah, you are right iamusername.

The doc can only protect a person *once*, not twice in a row, so that would prevent abuse, i see.

Corv

[sirdanilot]

I already said what I think about her claim.

The 'overdosed' thing is pretty interesting, though. I don't think we should discount the possibility that flavor may actually mean something in this case, but we shouldn't assume it for now.

I don't think we'll get an answer, but it never hurts to try:

MOD: DOES THE 'OVERDOSED' FLAVOR SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HOW AND BY WHOM SOMEONE WAS KILLED?

Corvuus, I defended myself against you, why didn't you reply to that? Does that mean that I defended myself well enough that you don't suspect me anymore, because in that case I'd expect an unvote.

Hi OC

It was plainly obvious you were a townie Electra, and it really sucks that you had to claim to prevent getting lynched.

No, it wasn't obvious at all.

Interestingly, several people that had a lot to do with Electra needing to roleclaim were also on my scumlist from their voting pattern on day 1.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark and I think it's Sirdanilot.

And LOL at your OMGUS vote.

So you think I am scummy. Why? Do you mean the bad reasons in your post a few pages back?

The fact that I voted Electra does not mean that I am scum. At most, the last person voting her, forcing her to claim, was Corvuus, so if that's a legitimate reason maybe you should be suspecting him.

My vote wasn't OMGUS. I've posted a PBPA on you and I concluded you were scum. The fact that you try to call that OMGUS more or less confirms that you are scum. A townie would've defended himself against my PBPA, you simply ignored it.

Guys, let's end this day, let's lynch OC. He's scum. I've posted a PBPA on him, you can see his scumminess in his reaction to me, do you guys need anything else?

Oh, and FYI: He didn't vote afatchic either day 1, and I think that this is one of the reasons he 'suspects' me?

Pot, kettle, black...

[clammy]

MOD: DOES THE 'OVERDOSED' FLAVOR SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HOW AND BY WHOM SOMEONE WAS KILLED?

QUOTING THIS TO SHOW THAT THE MODS ARE NOT BLIND.

[Wall-E]

Vote: sirdanilot

[Wall-E]

MOD: DOES THE 'OVERDOSED' FLAVOR SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HOW AND BY WHOM SOMEONE WAS KILLED?

QUOTING THIS TO SHOW THAT THE MODS ARE NOT BLIND.

YOU ARE THE EXCEPTIONS AND NOT THE RULE, OH EXCELLENT MODS.

[omni]

The reason I went with Electra was her ignoring questions and holding double standards throughout, the reason I am still with Electra is becasue I don't believe her claim, she was silly to do the broad hint and not claim, it would have been more helpful to stay quiet.

However there is now a new development - Wall-E, a vote with no explanation at all? Interesting....

[iamausername]

Sens, do you think Electra is mafia or SK? Whichever it is, what do you think her motivation was for saying the things she did about there being no SK at the start of the day?

I don't give a rat's ass if she's Mafia ot SK. I don't think she's a Doc, so she gets my vote. Her ad hominem and appeal to emotion (etirety of last post) isn't helping her case.

That doesn't answer the second question at all, and that one was really the more important of the two.

I don't believe her claim, she was silly to do the broad hint and not claim, it would have been more helpful to stay quiet.

Is there a link between the two parts of this sentence? Like, are you saying you don't believe the claim

because

she softclaimed first? If so, why does that make it unbelievable to you?

[SensFan]

Sens, do you think Electra is mafia or SK? Whichever it is, what do you think her motivation was for saying the things she did about there being no SK at the start of the day?

I don't give a rat's ass if she's Mafia ot SK. I don't think she's a Doc, so she gets my vote. Her ad hominem and appeal to emotion (etirety of last post) isn't helping her case.

That doesn't answer the second question at all, and that one was really the more important of the two.

Sorry, WIFOM. Didn't really think I needed to answer a question based on why a likely Scum is speculating on the set-up...