Mini 672 - Tranquility (Game Over)

[charter]

I already said, it gives scum information on what everyone's thinking. From the massclaim, none of us need any information going into tonight, only they do. Hence, there's no benefit in discussing for the town, but there is for scum.

[camn]

Still don't get it.

Say that Stef, for instance has some keen insight into things.
Then he gets killed.
then I don't get to benefit from his keen insight.

Or say Scum-Stef is ACHING to make some critical mistake. . .
But nobody bothers to Talk about him....
So he doesn't make it.

what about that?

But you know.. if you and KMD are scum, we are hosed, I think. Plus it was brilliant enough that you deserve to win.

SO I guess I am with you.

### Vote NO LYNCH

Porkens isn't here.. so I guess he wont 'hammer'....

Go Rays.

[charter]

Scum will have plenty of time to slip up tomorrow.

[Nameless]

But.. if it is true, Nameless... why don't you put a vote up?

We all know fully well who I wish lynched, and (for those paying attention to my posts) why. I'll gladly add my vote to whichever bandwagon forms first.

I think that it is TOO bold of a play for Scum to pull.

*facepalm*

Plus it was brilliant enough that you deserve to win.

I would post a witty response to this but

my keyboard is now broken.

(Don't question that.)

[Kmd4390]

Let me get this straight. Kmd and Charter want to give the scum a free nightkill (thus removing valuable insight from one majority member, and making quicklynching twice as easy for the scum) and are also refusing to discuss who is scum.

Look, we can either lynch someone now and lose if they are town, or we can increase our percentages of finding scum after a no lynch, and do the same thing tomorrow that we would be doing today.

I wanted to ask, though... Why no discussion?

If we no lynch, the scum have the next move. Discussion tells

them

who to kill. If we were to lynch today, we'd need to discuss it. I don't think there is anything that can't wait.

Which reminds me, I asked ZazieR to claim because she never did when we massclaimed. ZazieR, please wait until tomorrow to claim.

Say that Stef, for instance has some keen insight into things.
Then he gets killed.
then I don't get to benefit from his keen insight.

Valid point.

Go Rays.

Yep, Go Rays!

[Nameless]

Let me get this straight. Kmd and Charter want to give the scum a free nightkill (thus removing valuable insight from one majority member, and making quicklynching twice as easy for the scum) and are also refusing to discuss who is scum.

Look, we can either lynch someone now and lose if they are town, or we can increase our percentages of finding scum after a no lynch, and do the same thing tomorrow that we would be doing today.

No. We (the majority) can work together today to deduce who is scum without needing to rely on dumb luck, or we can let the scum kill off somebody who wasn't much a suspect anyway and figure out the same thing with less real input and instant quicklynching if one person makes a mistake.

Mafia is

not

a game of chance.

Damn it, Camn. Work with me here. What would it take - evidence, logic or otherwise - to convince you that Kmd and Charter are scum?

[Kmd4390]

Mafia involves BOTH skill and chance. You use skill to determine who you THINK is scum. There is, however, a CHANCE that you are wrong. You can narrow down those odds by being in the same situation, LYLO, with fewer players.

Another point, you are tunnel-visioning on the idea of charter and myself being scum.

[camn]

Well, nameless... I am open to the idea. First I would have to be convinced that Stef and Zazie AREN"T scum.

Because IMO, they are playing like scum would play... and kmd and Charter are playing like innocents. I know that that is WIFOM.. but

everything is

.

And logic is better than evidence, to me

PLUS.... I think no-lynch is good. You said they would kill someone who "wasn't much a suspect anyway".... LIKE WHO??? You suspect those two, I suspect the OTHER two, KMD suspects ME, snd charter suspects YOU.

that's everyone.

So who is this mystical person above suspicion?
Trust me, Alabaska knows...... if we had a good lynch right now, I would take it. But we don't.

c

[Nameless]

Another point, you are tunnel-visioning on the idea of charter and myself being scum.

Uh, no. Earlier on in the game I consider something like 85% of the players suspects (and was attacked by Charter for it), and eventually narrowed it down to figuring out it was highly likely to be you/charter/Rishi yesterday. Nobody else has done anything near as scummy as you, and you've done nothing to explain or redeem yourself, ergo ...

Also, any 'chance' you are wrong is just insufficient skill. That's like saying Chess has an element of chance. Until you can actually refute my reasons no lynch is a bad thing, consider your insistence ignored.

Because IMO, they are playing like scum would play... and kmd and Charter are playing like innocents. I know that that is WIFOM.. but everything is.

Neither that, nor 'everything', is WIFOM, but it is wonderfully unspecific.

Some people are more suspect than others - skimming over the posts of each alive majority would be enough for the scum to make a reasonable guess at who is least likely to be lynched. Aduh.

(In other news, I think I have a new backup plan for if I fail to convince anyone to lynch Kmd/Charter and it is called this: Operation Camn Deserves To Lose. Watching you be quicklynched would almost be worth my own loss. )

[Kmd4390]

What would you like explained to "redeem" myself?

I see what you are saying about the no lynch. A dead townie shouldn't possibly be able to be a good thing. But... it helps our percentages. Do you agree or disagree that as vanilla, it is impossible to 100% know anyone's alignment if they haven't already flipped? Do you agree that it is possible for a vanilla townie to be wrong about the scum? The answers are obvious to those questions. Of course we don't know anything, so of course we could be wrong. In fact, as Camn pointed out, EVERYBODY has been pointed to as a suspect TODAY. So, somebody is wrong. We need help in numbers, and a no lynch does that for us.

[Nameless]

... I have just had an idea. Logically I'm aware the idea is very poor and risky play, but what has logic done for me thus far? Ha.

## Vote: No lynch

Drake. Porkens. Melikefood. SpyreX. Nameless.
All of these people were majority. All of these people suspected Charter. If by tomorrow all of these people are dead by scum hands stop and think about it. Our evidence and arguments are still here. Do not let yourself be WIFOMed out of everything that matters.

If I am still alive tomorrow, you will have answers. One way or another.

(P.S. Porkens bandwagon was a direct result of Rishi's counterclaim, so I'm counting it.)
(P.P.S. What do you mean, It's not awesome?)

[Kmd4390]

You really think scum would NK someone who they said in thread they were suspicious of?!?

Bet they NK you to get charter lynched tomorrow. I would if I were them. Assuming you are town that is.

[charter]

... I have just had an idea. Logically I'm aware the idea is very poor and risky play, but what has logic done for me thus far? Ha.

## Vote: No lynch

Drake. Porkens. Melikefood. SpyreX. Nameless.
All of these people were majority. All of these people suspected Charter. If by tomorrow all of these people are dead by scum hands stop and think about it. Our evidence and arguments are still here. Do not let yourself be WIFOMed out of everything that matters.

More blatent lies. I very clearly said I thought Food and Spy were town. Not even a good try.

Here is another flip flop by nameless once he's realized that he can't blatantly push anti-town ideas and get away with it.

[Nameless]

@ Kmd: As hard as it is to answer this question without swearing for emphasis,

yes.

@ Charter: I'm not even sure what I'm suppose to have said that you're calling lies. Those people were NKed, or in Porkens case was a direct result of an action by a confirmed minority. And all of them had recently voted you when they died. (And I'm not "flip-flopping" because I still say voting no lynch is very poor play, so it's more like hypocrisy.)
@ Majority: Just reread all our cases if I'm NKed, okay? Thanks.

You two are the most annoying scum ever.

[Kmd4390]

If they do that, they paint a target on their back. If Camn was Nk'd N1, would everyone have looked at me? Of course they would.

[Nameless]

I hope everybody else here is noticing how quickly Kmd is firing up the WIFOM.

[Kmd4390]

You said that if you are NK'd, it makes Charter scum. How is that not WIFOM?

I know I am using WIFOM, but it is in response to

your

WIFOM. In fact, 786 was intentionally as WIFOMy as possible just to show you my point.

[Lord Gurgi]

Votecount

No lynch (4) - Charter, Kmd4390, camn, Nameless

Not Voting (2) - Stef, ZazieR

You do nothing. Tony comes in and beats a few of you up, but you stay strong, and go to sleep without killing anyone. It seems wrong somehow, against your nature. Deadline is for the 27th at 6:00 PM PST.

[Lord Gurgi]

You wake up, still feeling... Hollow, somehow. Camn has joined your suspended members (Pun!), but nothing seems out of the ordinary. As the man in the blue suit walks in, he seems smug. You set off to do your work.

Camn, Mafioso has been hanged, Night Four

It is now day five, with deadline set for November 6th, 4:00 PM PST. It takes three to lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Stef, Nameless, ZazieR. If we have 2 scum left, only one of these 3 is town. ZazieR, can we get a claim from you now?

[Nameless]

Hello Zazier, hello Stef. I didn't think the mafia would actually NK me after I promised bad play, so that's convenient. Given that I'd pointed out the possible connections between scum targets, Camn's NK was probably just throw that possibility off or surprise the majority (or she was just unlikely to be lynched). In response to Kmd, even if you considered the deaths unrelated, that's still a significant number of confirmed majority players who considered Charter scum - their opinions and the arguments they made are worth keeping in mind for the players still alive.

Anyway. Five players (three independent and two linked) with two scum. Considering that, we can arrive at the following conclusion:

Zazier and Stef, if majority, can be sure that either I, or Kmd/Charter, are scum. Previously this was not the case. As a result, the decision becomes a much more simple, and literal, "Him or Me" scenario. Rather than attempting to figure out who is scum amongst a group of five suspects, all Zazier and Stef have to do is choose between myself and Charter to win or lose the game.

The reason I ask that they consider Charter alongside myself rather than Kmd is due to the following:
a) Charter has, IMHO, acted more blatantly scummy than Kmd.
b) When I shortly comprise my entire gamelong case against Charter into a single post for consideration, it will shorter and simpler than such a case against Kmd.
c) If I made such a post against Kmd, I strongly suspect Kmd would spam dozens of posts repeating his previous weak/unlikely/non defences which would be really

annoying.

Simply enough, I will present my entire case against Charter together (probably tomorrow, when I have enough spare time). I'm also going to ask Charter to present his entire case against me in one post as well, for the sake of comparison. Counter rebuttals and such can follow by anyone but it will make it easier for everyone to have the each main case summarised in one place.

Kmd, please do

not

do this for Charter, as it will only distract the players from what I envisage to be a simple comparison - and if Charter is majority, he should be able to present his case and defend his actions effectively on his own. Again, the point here is to make the decision as simple and "X vs Y"ish as possible for the majority.

Of course, there is one situation in which this is flawed - in the case that it is Zazier and Stef who are the scum. I consider they very unlikely in light of Charter's actions, but I'll leave that up to Kmd to argue if he considers it a possibility. Be assured at any rate that I will not place my vote on Charter yet, so you'll have a time to convince me without the scum being able to quickhammer (on that note, I request that

nobody vote until both Charter and I have made our cases

).

Thank you, and I'll get that case to you within ~36 hours.

[Kmd4390]

Nameless, you do mention this at the end of that post, but it's important to point this out. Both Charter and myself have the situation where we know there are 2 scum in You, ZazieR, and Stef. If you are town, then from our point of view, ZazieR and Stef ARE scum. You are tunnel-visioned on the idea of mason-fakeclaiming-scum. If you are town, lynching Stef or ZazieR will win the game for us. Same goes for both ZazieR and Stef. ZazieR, if you are town, lynching Nameless and Stef wins it. Stef, if you are town, lynching ZazieR and Nameless will win it.

This is why I don't like the "Charter vs. Nameless: Lynch one now" idea. It's still possible that both are town.

If Nameless is scum, I can see where he would do this. Lynching town loses the game right now. Problem is, if he is town, he really thinks he is right and won't change his mind.

Not sure where to go from here. My gut is saying lynch Stef, but I don't have much on Stef right now. From my point of view, and Charter's, we have a 67% chance of hitting scum. Everyone else has to pick between masons and the other two. So they have a 50% chance. Pure odds would say follow the masons, but logic would say that would be stupid. You don't blindly follow someone who you don't know if you can trust.

The game is in the hands of the town player between ZazieR, Nameless, and Stef. I don't know which of you I am about to say this to, but I hope you make the right decision and vote for the other two.

[charter]

Before I say anything, claim Zazier.

[Stef]

Bah... mornin'. Hate that all the discussion is made while i sleep. Anyway.

@nameless: I do, indeed, have two options. Either ZazieR + nameless or Charter + KMD so yeah.. I'll go over the thread to look for any possible zazier-nameless connections to see how plausible it is.

@kmd

Problem is, if he is town, he really thinks he is right and won't change his mind.

It appeared to me that he was open to both possibilities and

leaning

towards the probability that you are scumpair with charter. Why do you say that he won't change his mind? I don't like that.

@all of you who voted the no-lynch. Why did you rush into it? I think that is just odd. Now the game is in it's last day. Since you voted no-lynch now it's easier for the scumpair to finish. If yesterday they needed two votes to kill a majority member now they only need one vote to hammer and win. Considering Charter and KMD pushed the most for the No-Lynch they would be my prime suspects right now.

On the other hand zazier is either very inactive or activly lurking. If he doesn't post soon a prod will be in order because if him and nameless are both majority then majority has minus -vote witch can only be bad for us. If he is scum.. well.. him being inactive isn't such a bad thing but a player slacking in a game is bad for the game balance overall so still.

I'm waiting for nameless's "Charter case" and for "Charter's defence" as well as Zazier's claim and then i'll probably make my decision.

[Nameless]

... the "Charter vs. Nameless: Lynch one now" idea.

I request that nobody vote until both Charter and I have made our cases

We have a code zero three misrepresentation alert! All men to battlestations, and get my sarcastic retort specialist on the phone! Oh noes, I repeat, OH - NOES. This is not a drill.

It's still possible that both are town.

Both Stef and Zazier will know if this is true or not. Who are you trying to convince then, Charter or I?

The game is in the hands of the town player between ZazieR, Nameless, and Stef. I don't know which of you I am about to say this to, but I hope you make the right decision and vote for the other two.

Fight amongst yourselves, silly monkeys! Kekekekekekeke!

Problem is, if he is town, he really thinks he is right and won't change his mind.

Overstatement.

It appeared to me that he was open to both possibilities and leaning towards the probability that you are scumpair with charter.

Under

statement.

@all of you who voted the no-lynch. Why did you rush into it?

Clearly, this. And ... yeah, once I realised the situation you and Zazier would be in now, I figured that by ending the day quickly and playing up my, uh, bad play (as well as mentioning connections between those the scum had killed) I was much less likely to be NKed. So, sorry about that.

I'll go over the thread to look for any possible zazier-nameless connections to see how plausible it is.

Feel free to look for an actual scumtells, too!

I'm waiting for nameless's "Charter case" and for "Charter's defence" as well as Zazier's claim and then i'll probably make my decision.

You should wait for Charter to compile his case against me, also.

(I'll get that serious post up tomorrow guys, honest.)