Mini #682: C9++ (Game Over!)

[Scheherazade]

@Mykonian:

1. Oh, I didn't mean to question you here, just to point out that saying some one is above suspicion might make them mafia targets.

2. Okay, fair enough. I asked because I'm still rereading Artem.

3. I'm sorry, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by "She was the only one that was uncertain." Do you mean that she unvoted before Kairyuu claimed?

4. Okay, I understand what you're saying here.

5. When you talk about voting, you voting for Kairyuu then Sekinj? I still think this is more or less logical. I'm not sure why exactly afatchic voted Kairyuu, but after Kairyuu claimed and was confirmed by you, it seemed logical that a) he should be unvoted, b) the next most suspicious person be examined, and c) his attackers, who could be scum trying to get town lynched, should be examined. You feel that this was not pro-town reasoning?

As for the reaction to the Kairyuu discussion, would you tell me what specifically you mean?

6. Okay, I misunderstood. I thought you, like Kairyuu, saw evidence of a scumteam. That was my mistake.

Two more things, though:

I wouldn't expect all the scum to choose for one side. And I would expect there reasons to be weak. The fact that you and CF move with eachother makes it hard to see from this point who of you is it.

Just to check, you think that my reasons for voting Sekinj are weak, I understand. But do you think they are weak in that they're unconvincing or in that they're an excuse to vote for her?

Also, what side do you think that I or afatchic have taken in more of the issues you mentioned?

I have to say, from this point Sekinj is far from confrimed, because you and CF are on a weird spot for scum to be on a wagon.

I don't understand what "on a weird spot for scum to be on a wagon" means, exactly.



I think that I have a much better idea of where you stand and why, thank you for your posts so far.

[mykonian]

3. yes, that is what I thought. I really didn't expect it. And yes it is WIFOM.

5. afatchics vote was a random vote on Kai turned into a real vote when he got under attack from Kai. Not a very strong move. Unvoting was natural, but really choosing a target and going after it could be a scum move. A towny should keep his/her eyes open, and go with his suspicions all around until he or she found a very good target. So I don't know if this was good.

7. or to state the question differently, are you scum or town? I tend to see you as scum, so it would be an excuse to vote her. Off course there is no certainty here.

8. The most evident side Afat chose, was to defend germy and his claim. On that moment I thought he did it to seem town in case germy was confirmed. He chose sides against Kai (because artem didn't attack him? Doesn't need to be, artems play was also good, possibly better then Kai). He never reacted on the spring-sekinj thing (was a small thing)

9. it is saver for scum to wait with voting. That way they can go with the flow and follow the town. Therefor, scum tend to vote later (certainly a point against Sekinj) on the bigger wagons.

[Scheherazade]

3. Okay, thank you.

5. Okay, this goes back to an earlier post made by you and supported by Sekinj that thinks that I went after Sekinj because I wanted someone to accuse, not because I honestly felt she was mafia. I know the phrase of mine which implied that in my second post. I didn't respond earlier because I can't really prove to you that, in reading the game from the beginning, I put both Kairyuu and Sekinj on my list of likely scum. I don't really expect either of you to take my word for it, but I believed a case needed to be made against Sekinj for legitimate scum-hunting reasons, not to prove somehow that I'm town.

7. That could be a way to restate the question, but town could do either, scum could only do the second, I think. That's why I framed it the way I did. But my point in asking was this: no matter how hard I argue for a Sekinj lynch, I'm not going to convince you until you feel that I'm town. Therefore, I'm not going to waste our time restating my feelings on Sekinj until you won't think of it as making excuses.

8. a) On germy: I don't quite know afatchic's reasons, so no further comment.
---b) On Kairyuu-Artem: Could have been that he was choosing the player not attacking him, you're right. You think this is may be a scum tell because he took sides against his accuser in an unrelated discussion, possibly to discredit him?

9. Okay, so you meant that afatchic and CF Riot took what would be a risk for scum when they voted for Kairyuu, making you pause in positively identifying them as scum?

[mykonian]

people that vote first for a person, or second, are usually asked a lot for reasons etc. Later people can sneak in more, as public opinion favors them. Less reasons needed, ideal for scum. So yes, that is the problem in my theory so far. That is also a reason why you and CF aren't my top suspect, but spring. He is scummy enough for himself, and he fits in.

[springlullaby]

Sorry I missed these. The bold within other people's quotes is hard for me to read.

It is true that I change my mind a lot, that's kinda how I think and I don't particularly mind displaying my doubts, but concerning germy, I changed my mind only once. I have gone from 'pretty sure he is town' to 'looking scummier and scummier but I'm not willing to pursue the point'. I explained that in the post I retracted.

Why arn't you willing to pursue? you think he is acting scummy, but is not scum? or may you just knwo the rest of the town wouldn't be convinced.

So you think changing one's mind is a scumtell?

obviously not. I think leaving your options wide open and leaving your language open to interpretation is a scumtell.

Please point out what you think I have left unexplained, and I'll explain.

your post in isolation 20. Maybe you answered this in your most recent post regarding Artem. i will review.

If you are on about my prodding lurkers, I already explained that I felt their lack of posting was more than suspicious at the time, and specially specified in these posts that I was going to post my thought after them.

the thing is it seemed like you were more concerned about their actions, rather than stating your own opinions about the issue at hand. It just looked like a stalling tactic. You explicity state that you were waiting for them to post before you posted somethign bigger.

Wishy-washyness, if you mean germy, I have explained up above.

You've made some comments, but I would understand your progression much better if you had actually addressed what was leading you to think he was more and more scummy. As it is there are just random comments about germy's scumminess, and nothing that can be quantified. that's why i thought it looked wishy-washy.

I have stated that I was willing to lynch you, what do you think of it?

I think it's mean. I think you are wrong. I think you are a misguided scum if you think you can lynch this townie with these arguements.

-------------------------

@SL:

is missing the point. Kair is accusing you of posting nothing but prods, not asking you why you're prodding others.

QFT

Is missing the point, what I'm stating is I feel the prods I posted were warranted. I don't know what was Kair's intention since he didn't state anything clearly, but 1) I don't think I posted only prods in this game 2) are you accusing me of doing so? If it is the case, do state it clearly instead of borrowing other people's word.

Except that Artem is exactly right. Examples include:

Prod: afatchic

I'm putting my posting my thoughts on hold until Kayryuu's partner has claimed.

One thing though, I'd like to hear more from our lurkers: afatchic, alvinz95, Ku_F, Scigatt, and wolframnhart.

Five lurkers in a 12 people town is too disproportionate for my liking, especially with a claim on the table.

Prod: alvinz95, Ku_F, Scigatt

Comon guys, don't be annoying and lame, post.

I'll post something bigger later, I want these people to post first. I have to big suspects as for now.

Those are three entire posts from you, where all you do is prod other players.

I already told you that I think my prodding them was justified at the time. And I posted content as I said I would.

I think you are referring to Artem's 'this is exactly what I did as scum' comment addressing you. Well you see, at the time he made it, it struck me as strange because I used the exact same argument against him in Newbie 588. But you see, in Newbie 588 he wondered at my using that argument the same way you did, and I think he was being sincere, because it is certainly not a 'standard' argument coming from town and my using it is kinda an anomaly- this makes me think that him using that argument is more likely a scum 'copycatting' an argument town once used against himself than genuine thinking.

But yet you haven't explained why you decided to use it after I specifically pointed out to Artem that it holds no water.

Oh but I think it holds water, I think that something you have done yourself as scum is a good indication of what another scum may do in the same situation, but I'm pretty sure my view on that is controversial. The point is Artem expressed the same view as you in Newbie 588, and -though he was scum, and I was right about him - I think he was sincere, which make me suspect him possibly using this argument as town.

[springlullaby]

Man, wrong tab, ignore above, correct reply as follow.

-----------------

Mykonian, your argument about me turning words is wrong, as was your argument about me saying Kair was 'confirmed'. I never said she said I was town, I thought sekinj's use of words peculiar, and pointed out.

The rest is suggestive, but if you want to say that my vote on Artem is weak, present some arguments.

people that vote first for a person, or second, are usually asked a lot for reasons etc. Later people can sneak in more, as public opinion favors them. Less reasons needed, ideal for scum. So yes, that is the problem in my theory so far. That is also a reason why you and CF aren't my top suspect, but spring. He is scummy enough for himself, and he fits in.

And this apply to me how?

----------------------------------

Sorry I missed these. The bold within other people's quotes is hard for me to read.

It is true that I change my mind a lot, that's kinda how I think and I don't particularly mind displaying my doubts, but concerning germy, I changed my mind only once. I have gone from 'pretty sure he is town' to 'looking scummier and scummier but I'm not willing to pursue the point'. I explained that in the post I retracted.

Why arn't you willing to pursue? you think he is acting scummy, but is not scum? or may you just knwo the rest of the town wouldn't be convinced.

So you think changing one's mind is a scumtell?

obviously not. I think leaving your options wide open and leaving your language open to interpretation is a scumtell.

1.Where did I leave my language open to interpretation?
2.Now, I'd like to know if you think germy or Kairyuu are confirmed town?

Please point out what you think I have left unexplained, and I'll explain.

your post in isolation 20. Maybe you answered this in your most recent post regarding Artem. i will review.

I thought what Artem said was a scumslip, I retracted because I had overlooked something setup-wise.

If you are on about my prodding lurkers, I already explained that I felt their lack of posting was more than suspicious at the time, and specially specified in these posts that I was going to post my thought after them.

the thing is it seemed like you were more concerned about their actions, rather than stating your own opinions about the issue at hand. It just looked like a stalling tactic. You explicity state that you were waiting for them to post before you posted somethign bigger.

My opinion is not what is more important as I already know my alignment, so yes, other people's actions is more important to me. Do you disagree with that?

I don't see how explicitly stating that I was waiting for them to post more is in anyway a scumtell.

Wishy-washyness, if you mean germy, I have explained up above.

You've made some comments, but I would understand your progression much better if you had actually addressed what was leading you to think he was more and more scummy. As it is there are just random comments about germy's scumminess, and nothing that can be quantified. that's why i thought it looked wishy-washy.

I already explained my view of germy in 227.

I have stated that I was willing to lynch you, what do you think of it?

I think it's mean. I think you are wrong. I think you are a misguided scum if you think you can lynch this townie with these arguements.

Well, at least you have wit.

-------------------------

@SL:

is missing the point. Kair is accusing you of posting nothing but prods, not asking you why you're prodding others.

QFT

Is missing the point, what I'm stating is I feel the prods I posted were warranted. I don't know what was Kair's intention since he didn't state anything clearly, but 1) I don't think I posted only prods in this game 2) are you accusing me of doing so? If it is the case, do state it clearly instead of borrowing other people's word.

Except that Artem is exactly right. Examples include:

Prod: afatchic

I'm putting my posting my thoughts on hold until Kayryuu's partner has claimed.

One thing though, I'd like to hear more from our lurkers: afatchic, alvinz95, Ku_F, Scigatt, and wolframnhart.

Five lurkers in a 12 people town is too disproportionate for my liking, especially with a claim on the table.

Prod: alvinz95, Ku_F, Scigatt

Comon guys, don't be annoying and lame, post.

I'll post something bigger later, I want these people to post first. I have to big suspects as for now.

Those are three entire posts from you, where all you do is prod other players.

I already told you that I think my prodding them was justified at the time. And I posted content as I said I would.

I think you are referring to Artem's 'this is exactly what I did as scum' comment addressing you. Well you see, at the time he made it, it struck me as strange because I used the exact same argument against him in Newbie 588. But you see, in Newbie 588 he wondered at my using that argument the same way you did, and I think he was being sincere, because it is certainly not a 'standard' argument coming from town and my using it is kinda an anomaly- this makes me think that him using that argument is more likely a scum 'copycatting' an argument town once used against himself than genuine thinking.

But yet you haven't explained why you decided to use it after I specifically pointed out to Artem that it holds no water.

Oh but I think it holds water, I think that something you have done yourself as scum is a good indication of what another scum may do in the same situation, but I'm pretty sure my view on that is controversial. The point is Artem expressed the same view as you in Newbie 588, and -though he was scum, and I was right about him - I think he was sincere, which make me suspect him possibly using this argument as town.

Bolded mine.

[Scigatt]

While I was looking at sekinj, I took another look at this post. (Maybe someone spotted this before, I'm not sure.)

Right, I'm not particularly enjoying the new turn of the discussion and wouldn't be unhappy if you guys would just leave the setup alone. It's no fun and I think scum have brains too.

Germy, I still think you're most probably town, but you're starting to push it.
What's the point of hunting for scum reaction when you make evident what you are doing?

I dislike mykonian's last post a lot, I don't see any point in it. Myko, would you care to explain what purpose it served?

I'd like to see more from afatchic and all people who have no vote placed on someone.

First of all, I don't see how talking about the setup for a few posts, as opposed to roleclaiming, can hurt the town. The scum will discuss this among themselves anyways at night, and I don't how this could be town move.

Vote:springlullaby

[iamausername]

Votecount #16!

Scheherazade (3) - Kairyuu, Artem, wolframnhart
sekinj (3) - CF Riot, Scheherazade, SilverPhoenix
springlullaby (3) - sekinj, mykonian, Scigatt
Artem (1) - springlullaby
Scigatt (1) - germy

Not Voting (1) - Ku_F

7 to lynch.

CLICK HERE FOR DEADLINE CLOCK

.

[CF Riot]

CF Riot and I aren't the only ones to consider the possibility that you're lying.

While technically I

am

considering it, I actually

highly

doubt the masons are lying. I think I've been one of the ones to question their claim the least. Just to clarify.

Votecount #8!

Kairyuu (5) - afatchic, CF Riot, Artem, sekinj, germy
afatchic (2) - Kairyuu, mykonian
sekinj (1) - wolframnhart
Artem (1) - springlullaby

Not Voting (3) - alvinz95, Ku_F, Scigatt

7 to lynch.

Assuming 3 scum, and assuming scum would be on the wagon (what I'm quite certain of) you and CF remain.

I don't know if it's safe to assume a scum necessarily be on the Kair push from 5 votes out of 12, but I understand the thought process. Artem and Sek are definitely not exempt from this scrutiny though.

If you take the reverse of this and look for scum

not

on Kair's wagon, you have a sample size of 7 and both Kairyuu and yourself are in the group, so you can narrow it down to 5, the exact same as those voting Kair. In which group do you think more scum most probably lie?

CF also hasn't had an optimal play,

is very uncertain (or wants to look what savest place for his vote will be).

Really? Of all the people in the game you think I'm being cautious with my vote? I was 2nd on Kair's wagon, when Afat's was originally a random vote, and I'm the first on Sek's wagon.

9. it is saver for scum to wait with voting. That way they can go with the flow and follow the town. Therefor, scum tend to vote later (certainly a point against Sekinj) on the bigger wagons.

Okay, here you say what I just tried to show, and admit Sekinj is more guilty of this than me. I really don't know why you see Sek as so town right now. I really think the masons need to get on the same page. It's bad dividing our votes as a town, but it's worse when we

know

both of you are on the same team.

First of all, I don't see how talking about the setup for a few posts, as opposed to roleclaiming, can hurt the town. The scum will discuss this among themselves anyways at night, and I don't how this could be town move.

Was there a second of all? Or was the first the all?

[SilverPhoenix]

First of all,

I don't see how talking about the setup

...

can hurt the town.

The scum will discuss this among themselves anyways at night, and

I don't how this could be town move.

Vote:springlullaby

First, isn't that a contradictory statment? Look at the red vs blue parts.

Second, in this situation, if everyone is truthful about what they have said, I think it was bad for the town as now the scum know a couple things: There is a power role with a backup that isn't germy, and there are two masons (Kairyuu and myko) without power roles. So in a three-scum game, they have at least 1/6 chance of hitting an known power role (12 people - 3 scum - 3 non-powerrole = 6 possible, in which one of those is a power role, so 1/6) as that chance is probably higher due to the chance of existence of other power roles.
Those odds aren't great, but we increased it for them. But that doesn't really matter at this point, as I don't know where you stand because your statement contradicts itself.

[SilverPhoenix]

EBWOP: I think the red statement was made about spring's post and not about talking about the setup, so nvm about that.

Talking about a semi-open setup is a double-edged sword. It can get confusing, and several players can use that to take advantage of the town. However, town power roles in the game get a better idea of what they should do at night by knowing what they are up against.

[springlullaby]

While I was looking at sekinj, I took another look at this post. (Maybe someone spotted this before, I'm not sure.)

Right, I'm not particularly enjoying the new turn of the discussion and wouldn't be unhappy if you guys would just leave the setup alone. It's no fun and I think scum have brains too.

Germy, I still think you're most probably town, but you're starting to push it.
What's the point of hunting for scum reaction when you make evident what you are doing?

I dislike mykonian's last post a lot, I don't see any point in it. Myko, would you care to explain what purpose it served?

I'd like to see more from afatchic and all people who have no vote placed on someone.

First of all, I don't see how talking about the setup for a few posts, as opposed to roleclaiming, can hurt the town. The scum will discuss this among themselves anyways at night, and I don't how this could be town move.

Vote:springlullaby

1. I see this as an OMGUS vote with lame reason.

2. In this game, claims give more info to scum than to town because they already know how many letters they occupy.

[mykonian]

Ok, spring, the first question you asked me, why it applied to you? It doesn't. I vote you for reasons earlier posted, scummy votes, scummy behaviour. It has nothing to do with you, but weakens my case on zade and CF

Now to CF. that votecount. I assumed some people to be town, also Artem and Sekinj for play reasons. I certainly don't know if the last one is right but today I'll stick with what I found in favor of her. I'm sorry to have insulted you. “Not optimal” doens't mean bad, just not perfect town. I don't know where I got the feeling from that you were cautious. Did I confuse you with someone else. I'm sorry anyway. And I have time to change to my second biggest suspect if I want, and be reunited with Kai. I will however NOT vote for Sekinj.

And what is Scigatt doing? Haven't seen him a lot, he posts a small post, votes for a nulltell, and is out again. Weird.

Complot? For the more experienced players, can this be an action to divide town just before the lynch?

[Scheherazade]

@mykonian: I don't exactly fall into the above-mentioned category, so could you explain what you mean by 'complot' and where you see it in the game right now?

[mykonian]

I don't know if it can happen, and I'm certainly not experienced, but could it be a good scum tactic to act scummy just before deadline to divide the town? In that case Scigatt's post makes sense, when he is scum. If such thing never happens, Scigatt's post is just senseless.

Or is it simply bussing?

[Scheherazade]

With his vote, we also have a three way tie at three votes between me, Sekinj and springlullaby. As it stands, it won't even do to have all other players (springlullaby, germy and Ku_F) for one of the top three.

As a town, we've got to work out some sort of compromise if we're going to lynch anybody today.

I think we should lynch. Does anybody think that because we can't really identify one person as reasonably scummy, we should avoid a lynch at all? I'm pushing for a lynch because I think our odds are decent of lynching scum, even if we voted randomly, assuming germy, mykonian and Kairyuu are all right about their role claims. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we've got either a 1/3 or a 4/9 chance of lynching an anti-town player (including the possible serial killer). Our chances might be even better than pure probability.

Because I'm one of those who might be lynched today, I'd like to call on Kairyuu and mykonian to try to lead the discussion of a compromise. You two are as close to absolutely confirmed as we have. If you have been lying about being masons, I still think that your gambit can only last so long.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. We've got two days to decide a) whether we want to lynch (yes, I assume), b) who we ought to lynch, and c) who's willing to compromise to achieve that lynch. I have hope that we'll reach a compromise because not a few people have expressed willingness to vote for multiple players.

Criticisms, comments, accusations?

[mykonian]

Complete case on Spring

post 15: random vote CF
post 31: not that random vote Sekinj
post 34: explains her vote, doesn't like Sekinj her post (that pointed out to someone that the day had started and random voting was a bit useless, esspecially if you don't want to discuss.) Doesn't see Sekinj “walking the walk” (in post 34, page 2)
post 38: says it isn't quite a random vote.
Post 39: doesn't understand a setup thing.
Post 53: repeats that she didn't like Sekinj's post.
Post 55: because she isn't scumhunting
post 60: repeats that she didn't like Sekinj's post, explains something about her feeling about Germy
post 90: doesn't like the setup talk, and a kind of mass prod post.
Post 99: asks Sekinj what her suspect is.
Post 116: chooses Kai in Kai-Artem votes artem, doesn't like afat, stays on Sekinj. So: following town
post 117: asks what germy thinks of afat.
Post 118: says he is repeating himself, when he reread (yes you do!)
post 168: says Kai is asking for the cop to investigate him (no he doesn't!)
post 186: wants Kai to answer, and not me.
Post 190: thinks germy scummy, gives no reason.
Post 191: repeats post 186
post 210: prod post
post 220: mass prod post
post 244: prod post
post 245: has found something to reïnforce his case on afat (if there is any). A “scum slip”.
Post 247: wants to wait with posting, till inactive people post.
Post 277: retracts post 245, wants a fast lynch, is ok with lynching lurkers and he has found an other toy to justify his vote on Artem: the pre-emptive OMGUS. Two people, giving pages of reasons why the other is scum and they themselves aren't and all he can think of is an OMGUS-vote. You still have no case on Artem.

from post 310 I thought this:

Spring is becoming my top suspect. she is a bit hasty, and uses a weak reason to vote Artem. This also from the fact that she thinks Kai confirmed. Still she kept her options open in case SP would make a case against us. Weird. she is also attacking Kai a bit, so it is not that weird she would vote for one of us.

I get the feeling that she does all this also to stay of Sekinj's wagon? Still she mentions she doesn't like Sekinj's posts.

And she hasn't left Artem. Conclusion: two cases that were very weak, coming up with “reasons” to reïnforce her present case. On the moment a new player enters and gives new possibilities, she keeps her options open.

PS: SP I like your avatar! I wouldn't change it.

[Scigatt]

While I was looking at sekinj, I took another look at this post. (Maybe someone spotted this before, I'm not sure.)

Right, I'm not particularly enjoying the new turn of the discussion and wouldn't be unhappy if you guys would just leave the setup alone. It's no fun and I think scum have brains too.

Germy, I still think you're most probably town, but you're starting to push it.
What's the point of hunting for scum reaction when you make evident what you are doing?

I dislike mykonian's last post a lot, I don't see any point in it. Myko, would you care to explain what purpose it served?

I'd like to see more from afatchic and all people who have no vote placed on someone.

First of all, I don't see how talking about the setup for a few posts, as opposed to roleclaiming, can hurt the town. The scum will discuss this among themselves anyways at night, and I don't how this could be town move.

Vote:springlullaby

1. I see this as an OMGUS vote with lame reason.

2. In this game, claims give more info to scum than to town because they already know how many letters they occupy.

1.When did you vote for me.

2.I explicitly differentiated between roleclaiming and talking about setup.

[mykonian]

Scigatt, since when is talking about talking about the setup a scumtell? This is ridiculous.

[SilverPhoenix]

Scigatt, since when is talking about talking about the setup a scumtell? This is ridiculous.

In the end, it is the people with the lettered roles that know more about the setup than anyone else. Most will never say all that they know, as obviously they would claim in order for it to be true. Myko's right, this simply isn't as important right now.

PS: SP I like your avatar! I wouldn't change it.

Yeah, I finally found a good one. However, I did steal it from deviantart. (I did make silver though. It was a normal phoenix before)

Anyway, those are my thoughts. We've got two days to decide a) whether we want to lynch (yes, I assume), b) who we ought to lynch, and c) who's willing to compromise to achieve that lynch. I have hope that we'll reach a compromise because not a few people have expressed willingness to vote for multiple players.

a) Yes, I think we should lynch. It would give us more information about the other players than anything.
b) I sticking to Sekinj right now. I would like to hear more opinions, especially from Kairyuu and germy.
c) I might be willing to, but again I need to hear more opinions from the others.

[CF Riot]

a) Mos def.
b) I really want Sek. I would be fine with Scigatt.
c) Since Myko has refused Sek, and Kair never really was that hot about it, I'm willing to compromise quite a bit. I don't have anyone I won't vote for other than the claimers. I would rather vote Artem or Wolf than those left.

deviantArt rocks. Myko, I didn't really get my feelings hurt, I was just messing with you. [=

Germy really needs to post.

[Kairyuu]

@Zade:

If anything, Sekinj was an uphill battle because you had in no uncertain terms disagreed with CF Riot for voting Sekinj and in fact mentioned it when you HoSed him. Wolframhart had just declared that he didn't think that she was very strong. And CF Riot hadn't yet responded to Sekinj's defence of her vote/unvote for you, which made me think at the time that he was backing off.

I believe I already ceded this point to you. I can see what you mean and do not consider it a point against you right now. Still want you dead though.

You called me out after I had posted twice: one of those was my confirmation post. I didn't mention it again except to explain myself and once to point out that you've done the same in past posts.

Very well. I still don't like the fact that you did it at all, regardless of how many times you did it.

And I don't consider mine to count, because I had already claimed and had that claim as close to confirmed as is possible for anyone but an innocent child.

On the other hand, thank you for apologising. I appreciate your honesty, even if you're trying to kill me.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. We've got two days to decide a) whether we want to lynch (yes, I assume), b) who we ought to lynch, and c) who's willing to compromise to achieve that lynch. I have hope that we'll reach a compromise because not a few people have expressed willingness to vote for multiple players.

a)of course
b)you or SL
c)I will move my vote to SL at deadline if necessary to achieve a lynch. I would also move to sekinj, but would prefer not to, as I feel that she has explained herself well enough for the moment.

(Note: If you are willing to compromise and vote with me I will move my vote as soon as you do, because SL is currently my second choice and not helping herself with the fact that she refuses to give me a straight answer. This would make it a much easier choice for today's lynch for others)

And before people jump on me for being willing to vote with my top suspect, I have precedent for this from Newbie 661 as I do with most of my actions.

@Springlullaby:

I already told you that I think my prodding them was justified at the time. And I posted content as I said I would.

Even if those posts hadn't been essentially all you posted for 2-3 days, you are ignoring the entire point of my quoting them. You claimed to have never made a post that was nothing but a prod. Those three posts are perfect examples of just that. You ask for lurkers to post, and then say nothing else. Plus, these posts spanned 2-3 days, with no other posts between them. The fact that you keep trying to dodge the issue does not sit well with me. I would seriously consider switching my vote to you at deadline if I can't get people to join my case instead.

Oh but I think it holds water, I

think that something you have done yourself as scum is a good indication of what another scum may do in the same situation

, but I'm pretty sure my view on that is controversial. The point is Artem expressed the same view as you in Newbie 588, and -though he was scum, and I was right about him - I think he was sincere, which make me suspect him possibly using this argument as town.

Two things: First, you still haven't explained why you used the argument when you knew that it would amount to nothing. Second, the bold is serious WIFOM, especially since, as I explained to Artem, what you would do in one situation has absolutely no effect on determining the alignment of someone else when they do something in the same situation, because people have a tendency to think differently from each other.

If they didn't, then there would be no point playing mafia because every scum would act the same and every townie would act the same in any given scenerio. The scum would therefore not be able to hide and the town would win every time.

[Scheherazade]

Between the recent posts by springlullaby and arguments against her by mykonian and Kairyuu, I might vote for her, though Sekinj remains most suspect in my eyes.

As for Scigatt, I'm not sure I'm quite ready to vote that way. I do think his past few posts have been irrational. I think my reluctance stems from the belief that there are better suspects right now.

@Kairyuu: Uh-uh... You said "

my own alignment to be town" in post 162. You claimed in 215.

Admit you were just being a meanie and I'll call it even.

As I busy myself being obnoxious towards you, have you reread the game as you promised earlier? Has anything changed in your mind?

[Kairyuu]

@Zade: Whoops. I guess I got my timeline confused.

Yes, I am being a meanie. No I won't drop it.

My new angle is this: I knew I could prove it (as well as can be reasonably expected) if called for, and you can't.

But yes, I have pretty much given that point up, so I'll back off on it now.

As for the reread, I haven't had much time recently (5 AP courses are beating me into the ground) so I haven't gotten a chance. I will hopefully have a decent amount of free time tomorrow, so I will try to do it then. (key word try, as I'm still trying to find time for the cases for CF Riot, which I intend to find as soon as I can)

[sekinj]

I agree with Shez's point about a compromise. As bad as it would be for me personally, I would rather be today's lynch than have a no lynch. Of course, I would much rather lynch actual scum (spring) rather me a polarizing townie. However, I will never be against getting rid of distractions to the town.