Invitational 10: 2005-2006. Game over! before 624

[OhGodMyLife]

Hey guys. Will be sorting out the replacement and deadline issues soon. If you didn't send your role pm to mith you can send it to me.

[Elias_the_thief]

Citing one example is far from proving something universally. In some scenarios lynching a townie can be helpful to town. And further, EVEN IF youre right, I still disagree with you. I think that it helps town win. What matters in determining whether I'm indifferent is my intention, not whether or not my action actually furthers my win condition. I was talking about my own lynch because I believe it may be helpful to the town. My

intention

is to help town and therefore I'm not indifferent. Dont tell me I'm indifferent because you have a different opinion on whether a townie lynch can help town.

[bluesoul]

Bluesoul, I still want a response about your changing stance on DGB, because as it stands, it looks like a change solely with the momentum.

Finding her more actions more protown than previously doesn't mean I can't still think she's scummy. She went from very scummy to just scummy and there's really nobody moreso at the moment. Call it what you will, at this point I'm bored with this day, we're not accomplishing a damn thing. I'd love to see a concrete deadline placed so we have to act

somewhere

.

[OhGodMyLife]

Lowell replaces Ether

[DrippingGoofball]

Finding her more actions more protown than previously doesn't mean I can't still think she's scummy. She went from very scummy to just scummy and there's really nobody moreso at the moment.

I didn't know you could tap dance.

[Lowell]

Lowell in the hizzouse. List of scum upcoming. If you want to plead your case, you best do it before I add you to the list.

[DrippingGoofball]

Lowell in the hizzouse. List of scum upcoming. If you want to plead your case, you best do it before I add you to the list.

tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap

[pablito]

MBL, I voted for DGB because I felt like she needed some pressure and Elias didn't feel the heat from the pressure that was on him. DGB has shown reaction to pressure and I wanted to see if her reaction would be similar to the previous one. Elias still remains suspect #1 for me, but I felt I needed to go around things differently to see what goes on. And as we've seen, DGB doesn't care right now and pressure won't affect her either.

DGB's softclaim does not surprise me, but I think it sucks. I can't remember off hand, but I'm not even sure if she actually did say she was a power role, but only hinted at the possibility, right? Either way, it wasn't necessarily what

she

did with it afterward that got people to suspect her less or back off her, it was what others did with it (ie: Ether) that really got others to back off her (plus DGB's death-row final confession opinion post). And because DGB really isn't answering much lately, no one feels like pressuring her heavily. Whereas those who react to some pressure have really been on the radar mostly during today. She's possibly scum, but her previous play and my faults from my meta on her make me less certain of my stance on her.

Elias doesn't like that I look at language to find scum, well tough. I think language is the only tell we have here. While some go on logistics and progressive consistency of cognition, I go on how people subconsciously decide to portray themselves through language. I get gut feelings, but I like it. I will say, however, that Elias mentioning this point makes me feel a bit easier about him though.

Elias' PBPAs were meant to be boring, long lists that were extremely esoteric. It was made to help himself find scum, not to persuade others. The layout of those posts were not easy to read and were not emphatic enough to really make anyone care about what he said. And that to me shows more evidence to his lack of scumhunting. At that point he tried to protray that he was looking, but he really wasn't. He seemed like he was going through the motions. That sounds scummy.

Elias, also, I don't remember excusing you from using some awkward language initially. But whatever reasons I once had, none of it distracts from a lot of the scummy behavior lately. I think what I said earlier was "I understand where you're coming from, but it doesn't mean I see you less scummy". I really think it's the way that Elias is making the town responsible for his need to post certain things and he's been so reactive and less directive. Also "more posts and increased effort" doesn't necessarily mean you'll help us find scum. So whatever I said before Elias, there's more being added.

He says he forgot his original reasons, and calls me out for "scummy behavior" without citing anything specific. His reasoning reads to me as someone trying to go with the flow on my wagon without reading my posts in depth.

I never said I forgot my original reasons, I was saying that no matter what I once believed about you, there is more (at that point) that makes you look worse than previous scummy behavior (which was the way that you used language - specifically "for the town" and the PBPAs). You're trying to defuse my attacks on me Elias, but he's trying to paint me as deficient. I don't like it, in fact. Also, I didn't read his posts in depth because they're esoteric. They almost feel like they weren't intended for anyone else to read; they're like notes.

I finally read a statement that makes me really want to look at some of what CDB did. Patrick's "And my issue with CDB was that he seemed to defer responsibility to other elvis attackers when voting her." Previously I just didn't have the motivation to look at CDB as it seemed like most of the cases were weak. However, I will try to take a look at this case now.

CTD mentioned how DGB, Elias, chamber want the day to end but do little to help it. chamber, I feel would move his vote if something better comes up. DGB moves votes around a little bit but she is doing very little. Elias on the other hand is the most insistent on his suspect. Makes me doubt him a little bit.

My vote on Ether was to see if we could pressure someone into participating more. Also, I still hold suspicion on her. It had a lot to do with DGB's "claim" and a lot of it on how she came into D1. I've never seen her jump into things really strong and it was strange to see that in this game. At the point I voted for Ether, I was not doing it to just vote a lurker. I was looking at who I can vote to actually begin to have the person feel pressure. Votes at this point really aren't saying too much except when it's on Elias.

I see MBL's case on CTD (due to his almost defensive stance on Elias). But I'm not so sure that CTD is scum. I've felt good about posts of his. But there's still a lot of doubt since that role was Sarc and bird. Plus I agree with CTD's reclarification of his stance on Elias. I see how CTD was pushing mostly for Elias to be replaced and that he just doesn't see Elias as necessarily being anti-town. I disagree with this stance, but whatever.

On MBL's list, I would say that I've never seen CDB as townish, just that I didn't get that he was necessarily anti-town. But after catching up on posts, CDB is truly in "need to seriously re-look" pile. My FOS:CDB was due to his activity level here compared to the rest of the site, not because of internal game content.

I previously saw chamber as possibly anti-town, but at this point I see him as very likely town.

At this point, I'd much rather lynch Elias than DGB.

vote: Elias_the_thief

[DrippingGoofball]

Elias' PBPAs were meant to be boring, long lists that were extremely esoteric.

It was made to help himself find scum

, not to persuade others. [...] And that to me shows more evidence to his

lack of scumhunting.

At that point he tried to portray that he was looking, but he really wasn't. He seemed like he was going through the motions. That sounds scummy.

Seems to me that you're contradicting yourself.

[CrashTextDummie]

I've revisited Face-to-Face mafia to reread MBL, mostly to refresh my memory on what made me correctly read him as scum in that game. Most of the things that made him stand out happened on D2 and following, and I have a feeling that I may not have the tools to read him with complete accuracy without the benefit of having a few people with confirmed alignments (i.e. corpses).

That doesn't change the fact that I find him suspicious in this game, and building a case against him is next on my agenda.

Looking forward to Lowell contributions, btw.

[OhGodMyLife]

Working on a cdb replacement. When that happens, a firm deadline will be set.

[pablito]

DGB, when you read the sentence after the ones that you bolded, I say that he tried to look like he was scumhunting but was doing it all for show. And for you to say that, especially when he did a PBPA on you and suspected you - I find it interesting that you say that he actually was scumhunting.

But, to clarify, he made posts to try to find scum - but in reality, I feel like he did it for show and was not genuine in those posts. Therefore it was a lack of scumhunting. The progression is more of a result link rather than two definitive statements.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, when you read the sentence after the ones that you bolded, I say that he tried to look like he was scumhunting but was doing it all for show. And for you to say that, especially when he did a PBPA on you and suspected you - I find it interesting that you say that he actually was scumhunting.

You're putting words in my mouth, scumbag.

I didn't say whether he was scumhunting or not. YOU said he was scumhunting, then that he wasn't.

You said he made the posts TO HELP HIMSELF FIND SCUM. Thus he was scumhunting. But then in the same breath, you interpret the exact same thing as a LACK OF SCUMHUNTING.

YOU make up YOUR mind.

[elvis_knits]

Elias' PBPAs were meant to be boring, long lists that were extremely esoteric.

It was made to help himself find scum

, not to persuade others. [...] And that to me shows more evidence to his

lack of scumhunting.

At that point he tried to portray that he was looking, but he really wasn't. He seemed like he was going through the motions. That sounds scummy.

Seems to me that you're contradicting yourself.

I don't agree with pablito's read of Elias, but I also think DGB is misreading pablito here.

If you read his whole spiel, I don't think Pablito contradicts himself. I think pablito makes too many assumptions about what Elias intended (a thing that we can't know). But I don't think pablito contradicts himself.

[Elias_the_thief]

I do. I'll try to respond to his post in depth tomorrow, but there are several contradictions in there, and more than a few generalities with no details.

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't agree with pablito's read of Elias, but I also think DGB is misreading pablito here.

[...] But I don't think pablito contradicts himself.

Really. Really.

Your defense of pablito is noted, scumbag.

I'm looking forward to the opinions of other players that are not so high on the scum list as you are.

[elvis_knits]

I don't agree with pablito's read of Elias, but I also think DGB is misreading pablito here.

[...] But I don't think pablito contradicts himself.

Really. Really.

Your defense of pablito is noted, scumbag.

I'm looking forward to the opinions of other players that are not so high on the scum list as you are.

You realize you are calling everyone who disagrees with you a scumbag, right?

[Lowell]

Ugh, this is a lot of freakin' words on D1.

Can someone from each of the three major wagons tell me briefly why you're voting the way you are, and specifically what posts I should be looking at as I read through? I get that this is a lazy way to do it, but humor me anyway.

[MrBuddyLee]

elias hasn't posted much, so you should read everything he's posted.

You should read DGB's behavior once she was placed at L-1, and keep reading through the elvis wagon to see if you think DGB really thinks elvis is scum and vice-versa.

elvis has played an interesting game start to finish and you should probably read her posts in context, as they're very reactive to others. The truth lies in whether her reactions are genuine or manufactured.

You should read petroleumjelly's posts to see if it sounds like normal PJ--pablito replaced him and has posted some meandering but occasionally insightful posts.

See if you can figure out what's up with Patrick, and whether it's weird that he doesn't see many people as scummy right now.

chamber's contributed more than usual early in the game--see if you can get a read.

CTD is very bold--see if you think he's incautious at all.

CDB ain't done shit.

bluesoul's been alternatively combative and indifferent. See how his occasional arguments read to you.

HackerHuck's expressed some suspicions with decent followup. Not a ton of posts--read em all.

This is a pretty lazy summary of gamestate, but then again you're a lazy bastard for asking for it.

[OhGodMyLife]

Xylthixlm replaces ChannelDelibird.

Imposing a ten day deadline as of now. Day one will end on October 30th.

[Xylthixlm]

Hello all. Since this game has gone on for 4 months and 39 pages and we're still at day 1, it's clear that nothing interesting has happened, so I'm not going to bother reading.

In fact, I'm also not going to bother thinking.

Vote: elvis_knits

because DGB has an excellent point on pablito. Also, this game needs more mindless bandwagon voting.

[elvis_knits]

OMG, CDB's replacement is totally scummy. I'm surprised.

I'm not going to bother reading.

In fact, I'm also not going to bother thinking.

Vote: elvis_knits

If that's not an endorsement on my innocence, I don't know what is.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm going to burst your bubble here. Mega-WIFOM I know, but Xyl's posts convinces me more readily of his innocence than it does yours. His perspective is original and refreshingly candid.

Elvis, I think you had an evil smile on your face when you typed the word "innocence" in the post above.

unvote, vote: elvis

[OhGodMyLife]

Just for clarity, the deadline lynch rule is still in effect. If a majority is not reached there will be a no lynch.

[elvis_knits]

I'm going to burst your bubble here. Mega-WIFOM I know, but Xyl's posts convinces me more readily of his innocence than it does yours. His perspective is original and refreshingly candid.

Voting me is not original.

You are promoting people don't read the game or think for themselves. That's dangerous and anti-town.

Elvis, I think you had an evil smile on your face when you typed the word "innocence" in the post above.

Sounds like proof to me...