veerus wrote:Kinetic wrote:
Faction Win Conditions
Army of Light (Town): Defeat Shadows and Vorlon Operatives
Shadow Operatives(Mafia A): Defeat Vorlons and AOL
Vorlon Operatives(Mafia B): Defeat Shadows and AOL
Race Win Conditions
Minbari: Kill Earthforce and Narn, they are hunted by Babylon 5 and Unaligned Worlds
Earthforce: Kill unaligned and Centauri, are hunted by Babylon 5 and Minbari
Babylon 5: Kill Earthforce and Minbari, are hunted by unaligned and Narn
Centauri: Kill unaligned and Narn, are huned by Narn and Earthforce
Narn: Kill Centauri and B5, are hunted by Minbari and Centauri
Unaligned: Kill B5 and Minbari, are hunted by Centauri and Earth force
It is just a big circle guys. We're all hunting each other and in the end the scum will win. We must ignore these win conditions and work toward the Army of Light win condition. I know you all have it, and if you don't, you're not town. If there is seven race win conditions then a few of the above race win conditions are wrong, but the circle will still be there I'm sure. The race win conditions are meant to break the town up.
This is a pretty good guess. One correction though. Vorlons and Shadows are technically races. Therefore, I think the faction WC for them would likely be "kill AOL". And the race WC would probably be "kill the other mafia and Babylon 5". I say B5 because that was the main AOL faction in the series (thus the name of the game).
Anyway, like I said, this is a great guess at the structure even though there are some thematic inconsistencies. But it's quite likely that they are what they are due to game balance reasons and seeing how Tar games have gone in the past, it's not impossible for him to throw in a few inconsistencies to confuse those familiar with the theme. To further support that argument, my race win condition (which you correctly mentioned btw) has such inconsistency I'm talking about so relying solely on thematic knowledge isn't a good idea here. At any rate, I would be for the race claim as the faction WC should be easier to achieve.
That being said, I still think Nat is the best lynch for today. I believe that his claim is fake. This guess is supported by Kinetic's theory and my comments regarding shadow/vorlon win conditions. Even if his claim isn't all fake, Naroon was a renegade and very anti-town in the series.
Ah, I know the series as well, but I based my deductions on the series not having anything to do with the game, and only if there maybe resembling some things. I also used the rule the game balance trumpts what happened in the series.
First, Vorlons and Shadow are technically races, however, Vorlon and Shadow OPERATIVES are the younger races being controled by Shadow and Vorlon plots. Thus, Shadow and Vorlon OPERATIVES (who are the target of the AOL win condition, look at it in Tar's post) are a faction, not a race.
Babylon 5 is definately a race, not a faction. And I'll talk to you about the second post later...
armlx wrote:Kinetic, wouldn't ever claiming their race just lead to more issues with people pursuing their race WC over the AOL one? Why not just have everyone agree to NEVER claim race, which means no one can ever target another race specifically and therefore has to win via their alignment WC.
No. I'm afraid my big reveal will explain exactly why, but I cannot do that yet.
Because of the circle, you have a balance of power based and assured mutual distruction for the town if we begin trying to go for racial win conditions.
hp [leaves] wrote:Okay, one is Nat's claim: Anti-shadow. That has no business with either the Light Force or the Vorlons. Their win condition is to get the shadows and neutral survivors dead (one of Nat's early posts was about asking survivors to come out and tell why he shouldn't kill them)
The other one is, as you suspect; the anti-vorlon, the vorlon version of Nat's faction. The reason that I fully believe Nat's claim is that I'm from this faction. If you don't believe me, go on and lynch Nat (or me). Since the role PM's are exposed in the death scene, you'll see that I'm right.
Just telling again that neither the Anti-Shadow or Anti-Vorlon factions need to eliminate the Light Force to win
This post is ... interesting. ...
I can't be sure, but I believe your post actually makes it easier for town to win if we go through with the race claim...
Answer me this... are you Centauri?
dybeck wrote:I don't think it will work whether I claim or not. Scum will just fake claim now that we've made it so easy for them.
What reason would scum have to claim a false race? In fact, the way my big reveal will show is that they CAN'T pick a false race, I'll know. This was a flaw in the original WC claim, but I made sure this flaw didn't exist before I went forward with this.
dybeck wrote:Furthermore, one of my win conditions is an anti-faction win condition, so declaring which one it is just makes me a target for nightkill. Which doesn't help me or my faction.
I don't care about your faction win condition. Only your race.
dybeck wrote:mod is experienced and highly unlikely to have made it so easy.
I present into evidence, Freaktown Large Theme game. The game was a Large game with over 20 people, modded and created by Raj (very experienced mod), Tar and I both played in it. Tar was scum, I was town. The game had a NO REVEAL on death. The town was never sure who was town or scum. There were two scum factions, both of whom could kill up to three times per night. I successfully broke the game and solely won the game from town, out-thought Tar at a pivitol moment in the game, and figured out the ENTIRE set up with less information that I was given in my own role PM for this game. Trust me, figuring out this game was NOT easy, but I did it.
dybeck wrote:So no, overall, I'm not going to go along with your mysterious, inadequately-informed plan. On Day 1.
That was not my question. My question is, if the majority of the town agrees, do we have to lynch you to figure out your race or will you tell us?
You stated originally you wouldn't entertain the idea without my full claim. I agreed to give it if you agreed to support the race claim. Now you're dialing back and not agreeing to even compromise.
Now it seems to me you never had any intention of even entertaining the idea, and you have been hard set against it from the beginning. Were you just trying to get me to full claim and then leave me hanging without even claiming your race? Sounds scummy...
Role Call so far
Support Plan, unconditionally
Mafia SSK
Theinternet
veerus
Support Plan, with Kinetic Full Reveal
forbiddenlight
Do not support Plan
dybeck
Empking
Nat (doesn't matted since he already claimed...)
Undecided
pacman281292
VisMaior
malthusis
Cybele
armlx
Darox (rep. seraphim)
populartajo
Mana_Ku
DrippingGoofball
cr3t1n (rep. Blitzer)
RandomGem
[hp]leaves
farside22 (rep. Tovarish)