Open 832: Nightless Exploder Pandemonium III - Game Over

[innocentvillager]

no flashwagons please

I’m finally town lol

[innocentvillager]

Literally flashwagon was how we powered through day 1 you can read the previous game

Scum doesn’t want this to be a real game

Exploding isn’t that fun honestly it’s just losing

let’s win this shit on day 1

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: clemency
let's get to the cool mech stuff
also your avatar is weird

my take is we should actually try and kill scum D1 instead of let mafia just “lol” their way through this game by just flashwagoning someone and then blowing up whoever we want on D2

[innocentvillager]

cows gut tonal town

[innocentvillager]

I'm too sleepy to actually play, but I confirm being in this game.

I somehow believe IV's claim (to have finally rolled Town). #Q gives me scum vibes.

VOTE: numberQ

why do you believe my claim?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: IV

rvs or did something about my entrance ping you?

[innocentvillager]

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=87818

I mean just look what happened last time

It’s 12 pages of nothing

this was the easiest scumgame ive ever played

[innocentvillager]

don't get the schadd trs can someone explain?

[innocentvillager]

I'm too sleepy to actually play, but I confirm being in this game.

I somehow believe IV's claim (to have finally rolled Town). #Q gives me scum vibes.

VOTE: numberQ

why do you believe my claim?

VOTE: IV

rvs or did something about my entrance ping you?

i think im still interested in answers to these questions if either of u get around to it

[innocentvillager]

a note about flashwagons while it's on my mind, no idea if this is insightful or not, feel free to disagree ofc

im kind of scared about leaving people at L-2 even in this game; i think when someone gets to L-2 there's a huge incentive for scum to just go in and hammer/build up the wagon/hope another townie joins, etc. Like let's say two wagons are developing on X and B and X, Y, Z are the scumteam. If X dies then mafia insta lose but if even in the absolute worst case if Y scumclaims and hammers B then X, Y will get blown up and Z at least still has a fighting chance. Like even if associatives get really really bad scum will do anything to make sure the wagon goes to someone else because horrible associatives > instaloss is my point. So as town our job is to not let these sort of situations get even close to happening by making sure wagons don't go to like 5 votes easily without strong reasoning/deadline scramble.

as far as an overall game strat take

i kind of just like the idea of drawing out/playing the Day 1 phase as opposed to keeping it contentless and purely memey (no offense to the memers y'all great too). I just remember as scum being really scared that town would elongate Day 1 and try to scumhunt, etc., while we were all in limbo of just not knowing if town would converge on one of us on D1, which is why we went for the meme-flashwagon strategy. Obviously at this point it doesn't look like scum is going to take that approach and that this game already looks different, etc., etc. but i think it may be helpful to keep in mind that scum are under a lot more pressure than us on D1 which is an advantage we lose the moment we end this phase - scum have a lot more to lose than us.

this is all maybe kind of obvious but for me at least worth keeping and mind and verbalizing

[innocentvillager]

i'd argue that the meme flashwagon strategy in the last game was largely perpetuated by the town for funsies, because this IS something of a meme game

this is just incorrect because the 3/4 of the first votes on the flashwagon (post 6,7,14) in that game were literally planned scum votes

I remember you hammered eventually saying a random flashwagon was more likely to hit scum than trying D1, but the point is, it literally wasn’t random, it was just our scum strategy to vibe the game into lol flashwagoning a confirmed town

[innocentvillager]

i am uncomfortable with precommitting to be careful putting people on l-2/l-1, because i think that the point of quick wagons for pressure is that they actually have teeth. every vote can and should be able to lead to an elimination, and i think that that pressure is the biggest way we discern town from scum in any +rand way this day phase.


scum is gonna take the chances that come their way but outing a large part of the scumteam to eliminate townie x is probably a bad idea from their perspective when town is already more likely to be elimed.

I get where you’re coming from in the first part I think. You’re saying it’s only pressure if it’s actually real pressure I think. So to me it’s just going to be a tradeoff that in mafia normally we can basically ignore the quickhammer side because scum don’t want to 1 for 1 like almost ever but now that it is very possible we should be a little bit more cautious than normal. So I don’t want to just do business as normal. I would personally advocate “spiritual votes” when someone is at 4 or 5 votes max and no E1s allowed until we come to a consensus that we are okay ending the day. I still think there’s a crazy amount of pressure on scum this way, and we don’t have to risk the lolquickhammer to end the day.

Your second part I agree theyre probably not going to go crazy like sacrifice two members completely (my example maybe have been a bit extreme) but I still think if we run townie X up to E1 just so our wagon has “teeth” a lot of times maybe a scumread scum is going to hammer them/at least they have the option to because the townie starts townspewing. That way they have one member who looks kinda scummy and two people who are still completely undercover and that’s the only price they pay for avoiding ínstaloss on D1

[innocentvillager]

you want us to accept that you are functionally an IC for proposing this strategy and still decide to blow you up? how does that work, exactly, I’m confused

we either accept that you are too crazy to propose this as scum

Or we are paranoid that you could suggest this for towncred and treat you as IC, so we accept your plan and follow it through to the end anyway

[innocentvillager]

t3 why did you mindmeld with that post - what about cows post is scummy?

[innocentvillager]

i came up with most of this logic just now and i posted it too early (d1), so i'm sorry about that part, but just to elaborate;
the idea is that making this post and committing to it day2 onwards makes

me fully locktown, literally IC

if i'm town and i do it, all goes as planned
if im scum and i do it, it would be stupid because i'd never wanna go 1 for 1
if im scum and i back out, i get exploded on instantly
if im town and i back out, im an idiot and should be banned for gamethrowing

like you realize how much wifom there is in this plan right? I feel like

If you’re scum, you’re trying to incept the idea into our heads that you are super towny for proposing this and that we should have a scummier player sacrifice themselves for the bomb instead of you, and simultaneously you get to avoid the D1 elim making it better odds to survive if you don’t feel like trying

Like why do you want to us to do this to you, anyway, if you’re town

@mod

on D2, does twilight phase start immediately when someone explodes? So no other explodes after that first one mean anything? (Until the next day)

[innocentvillager]

well no the idea is there is absolutely 0 motivation for me to not go through with it if im town
and if im scum and dont commit you have 100% reason to blow me up right then and there
i just find super fascinating the idea that this setup might make for a post that scum would literally never make y'feel

well scum!you can say this to to towncred, bc in order for it to really be antiwincon we have to both accept your plan and decide to go through with it together, and if we fail either step, you get the towncred for saying your post

And if we go through with both steps and you do blow up, you’re town but it’s too late and doesn’t matter

[innocentvillager]

im not really good with the words, words, words side of mafia and i exist more so as a content generation machine than an analysist
i'd argue im the best townie to have go boom in this whole list

I need to think about it a bit more before I decide whether I vote to go through with your proposal

what do you mean by a content generation machine?

also imo it’s good to be aware of our weaknesses and I appreciate your thought on how you think you can be most useful to the town but no need to sell yourself short inmate and we’re just playing a game at the end of the day

but if that’s what you wanna and you wanna blow up more power to you I guess

[innocentvillager]

let’s just see what happens then sure

is there anyone you feel like pushing here? Do you like the cows wagon?

[innocentvillager]

I was typing up my thoughts on each iso, until I realized that this game has been 90% shitposting even 4 pages in. With the exception of IV and T3. A50, cows, and schadd have have put out

some

actual thought and content, but still within that 90% margin. Everyone else has either done barely anything, or has done nothing but shitpost.

So I guess with basically only that to go on, I like IV and T3 for town and I'm pretty null on everyone else.

this feels like kind of a robotic analysis and that makes me a bit worried

[innocentvillager]

cows at 4 votes

Schadd, charl, pooky, T3

I say 1 more max and the 6th vote is a scumclaim.

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: numberQ sure I’ll poke here.

[innocentvillager]

okay

please no more votes on cows for now

thats E-2.

[innocentvillager]

I still don’t get the cows scumreads, but I don’t know if I have him as a guttown rn. I think his response to my first post on page 1 felt towny like a real emotional reaction but idk I guess maybe he decided to fake it.

[innocentvillager]

please no someone unvote

my god if we get to day 2 this early because of this we just punted for no reason

Pedit: lol thank u

[innocentvillager]

interesting content here though.

Pedit: A50 what are you doing? Why vote then unvote

[innocentvillager]

cows gets beetlejuiced

You were almost E1’d how do you feel about that and why did u come in right as it happened lol

[innocentvillager]

*you were briefly at E1

[innocentvillager]

but we have time to decide who to kill I think we should use it

The reason this setup is balanced imo is because we can kill scum D1, so we should take full advantage of this imo and maximize that chance while we can

Once we fail D1, it becomes scum sided

honestly, I’m a little worried that scum haven’t been pushing away from cows really/trying to get him off the hot seat, because he’s been at 3-4 votes for a decent amt of time at this point

[innocentvillager]

alright I’m taking a break from this for a bit I’m not really the leader-type anyway, maybe I should be a little more hands off. I don’t see why A50 would do that just to spite me but here we are I guess I’m just trying to help. Maybe I should just chill a little

[innocentvillager]

I have some reads based on these interactions but I’ll probably keep some in private for now yeah.

clemen to be clear so you agree now that your previous statement, that you have no incentive to say what you said as scum, is now incorrect because of wifom/towncred stuff?

[innocentvillager]

but we have time to decide who to kill I think we should use it

Take your time. Just don't say things like "if you do this you're scumclaiming". You and I both know it never works that way. At least WAIT till someone does the deed and THEN say it's a scumclaim in your book.

maybe you’re right and my language was too absolutist. I should have used weaker language than declare something like that myself

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: numberq <- this is not me losing a cowslovesushirolls scumread

it might be an obvious idea to everyone but there's reason to explode on people a little bit spontaneously because if a mafian grows to be convinced they'll be exploded upon it's surely worthwhile to try to counter-explode on a consensus town. but i think that in general people's natural zealousness to explode will make this not an important thing to think about

it's not obvious at all to me but i could just be dumb

how about the opposite scenario where if town grows to be convinced they'll be exploded on, they'll get a potshot at an actual scum?

[innocentvillager]

ive never thought about D2 seriously tbh but it actually feels really complicated to coordinate anything so maybe youre right but idk

[innocentvillager]

I agreed with a lot of stuff in 201 so that’s good I guess?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: cows

The vote on strange makes no sense, and somehow putting Clem and Strange on similar footing here also makes no sense

he didn’t really explain it at all it was just a throwaway in the last sentence

why not give him the benefit of the doubt and ask?

[innocentvillager]

I still don’t get the cows scumreads, but I don’t know if I have him as a guttown rn. I think his response to my first post on page 1 felt towny like a real emotional reaction but idk I guess maybe he decided to fake it.

in that situation i'm not sure why a genuine emotion in response to your post makes me gut townier
is it a general thing?

well it’s directed at town so presumably you only have a emotional reaction to feel inspired/not actually that inspired if you’re town, so if you’re scum you’re faking the reaction

which is totally plausible but feels like unnecessary effort and you feel like someone who posts very SOC-like so I considered it a small townlean

[innocentvillager]

pooky I hear you are good at this game what will it take to get you to help us find scum ~

I guess you’re voting cows but you’ve most been memeing like how confident are you in cows scum/why

[innocentvillager]

but like hes not dead yet and this type of game the scum cant actually sheep

can you spell this out for me like I’m 5

[innocentvillager]

are you just saying scum might have already tried to hammer him if he were town and that he easily could’ve gotten there but the resistance is scum!indicative by default

or is there more

[innocentvillager]

what do you make of him briefly getting to E1 with Clem putting him at E2, A50 putting him E1, Clem snap unvoting and A50 snapunvoting

any reads there contingent on cows being town or scum

[innocentvillager]

what do you make of him briefly getting to E1 with Clem putting him at E2, A50 putting him E1, Clem snap unvoting and A50 snapunvoting

any reads there contingent on cows being town or scum

if anyone else wants to weigh in please feel free thoughts welcome

[innocentvillager]

I mean I see where your enchant partner thing is coming from it’s just that one post which I feel is kinda weak but I see it ig

like I can definitely see numberQ partnered with non enchant, one vote is hardly a flashwagon

[innocentvillager]

I don’t feel that I have anyone better to vote aorn

[innocentvillager]

idk this slot just feels a little uninspiring ya kno

[innocentvillager]

I would vote pavowski too

[innocentvillager]

I would vote pavowski too

[innocentvillager]

Pooky have you thought about what town strategy should be on explosion days then since you’re so eager to get there?

I don’t really see what was so fun about the explosion stage tbh, 3 townies just assploded on 3 other townies in like 6 hours and we won

are you hoping for something different to happen this time?

[innocentvillager]

the way you play this game is

if you throw someone into the river

and they drown

they're probly innocent

if they won't die

they're probably a witch

okay I laughed but unfortunately doesn’t do that much for me in terms of wanting to actually kill cows without more specifics

like maybe a tiny bit makes me edge in that direction knowing nothing else

but I could see this happening to town cows too

[innocentvillager]

I think either Q or Pav might be scum

If Q is scum the Pav deflection push opened up after I mentioned I could vote there

If Q is town then Pav is probably just scummy lol

[innocentvillager]

well I think that’s partly because I’ve been pretty vocal against it and a couple “agreed” with me and this game is just significantly less memey in general

also 2nd game flashwagon wasn’t random it was deliberate but that’s different

do you think town just refuses to listen to me if cows is town but the scum are happy that I decided to intervene in the flashwagon or something if cows is scum

And so the fact that people took it slower and listened to me maybe suggest our original flashwagon was fine?

[innocentvillager]

idk could be

I just think we should talk about it more I think there’s still info to gain

if a majority just want this phase to be done and over with that’s fine with me though I don’t want to be the party pooper

[innocentvillager]

also charl presence this game mad weak for some reason I could vote there too

[innocentvillager]

Clem fell off the face of the earth after taking sleeping pills too

How many scum are in this game

[innocentvillager]

thanks for the written out plan A50 I’ll think about it

[innocentvillager]

^ i actually like this post lol

[innocentvillager]

I also don’t think scum sui’ing at me is a world I’m super concerned about tbh

And I wouldn’t trust my own reads that much let alone ask you guys to trust them

The only reason I think you should trust my reads is the fact that I am just very towny this game and so I’m unlikely to be scum

[innocentvillager]

we should decide on a strategy whether that’s chaos or people voting for top scumreads to bomb each other or me choosing

Pooky whats your take on that

[innocentvillager]

yea im gonna shoot first instead of trying to coordinate cuz aint nobody listening anywY lolol

chaotic shooting is what you advocate?

[innocentvillager]

I’m potentially fine with chaotic shooting and not trying to organize this it’s just not clear to me any organized strategy is better although I haven’t thought about this that much yet

[innocentvillager]

meh i dont really care if cows dies td ig

[innocentvillager]

one thing weird about the coordination thing is like

if we tell townie X to blow player Y up, why would they blow up player Y if they actually think player Z is more likely to be scum

there's no reason for them to not just blow up whoever they think is most likely to be scum right

so maybe we should just tell the scummiest players to blow themselves up on whoever they want

[innocentvillager]

lol i mean if this was obvious to you why didn't you say anything

i feel like the one coordination strategy we've been considering was we split ppl into pairs and tell them to kill specific people

[innocentvillager]

nvm you dont need to answer that it won't help me solve your alignment

[innocentvillager]

UNVOTE: cow
clemency unvote town

why did you unvote I don’t understand

[innocentvillager]

this is an interesting development hmmm

[innocentvillager]

pooky can you be a little more concrete about who you think could make sense to you as part of the “mafia resistance”?

[innocentvillager]

I think it's more activated common sense which you deactivated at previous games.

why do you feel so detached this game? why aren’t you voting anyone/who are your reads

[innocentvillager]

one question i have is what the fuck are scum!cows partners doing

Though the clemency vote is very interesting

[innocentvillager]

the answer is I feel like, nothing

Why would scum do nothing here

It makes no sense

the biggest anti cows action taken so far was clemency’s unvote just now but it took a while to get to this point

[innocentvillager]

i mean I specifically tried to stop any flashwagon shenanigans this game after seeing how poorly it went last two games so that could be why we didn’t just meme kill cows

The word “random” is very misleading as well because it implies that every person had a uniformly random chance of getting flashwagoned and run up, the truth is that scum were very early on the flashwagon to encourage it in both games - in my game specifically the whole scumteam was in the first 4 votes on Enchant like half a page in

[innocentvillager]

can someone explain the pooky tr?

[innocentvillager]

i mean I specifically tried to stop any flashwagon shenanigans this game after seeing how poorly it went last two games so that could be why we didn’t just meme kill cows

The word “random” is very misleading as well because it implies that every person had a uniformly random chance of getting flashwagoned and run up, the truth is that scum were very early on the flashwagon to encourage it in both games - in my game specifically the whole scumteam was in the first 4 votes on Enchant like half a page in

words don't have power in any game as much as votes do
and i feel pretty strongly that the votes in this game point towards the scumteam *not* being on the cows wagon. whether that's intentional or cows is just scum, i can't say i'm sure.

remind me why/who again

[innocentvillager]

bruhhhh

[innocentvillager]

what the fuck is going on
my gut wants to assign a high probability to the chance that one of {pooky, clem} is scum and out of those two i think it's more likely to be pooky but i'm not sure i can trust that gut read

why are you still voting cows if thats true

[innocentvillager]

Ugh I hate this stuff =\

what do you hate? who is scum and why

[innocentvillager]

having vivid imaginations of exploding on charlemagne at some potential future point & my legs are batting around like a dreaming cat

VOTE: charlemagne I think we might have similar ish reads this game

[innocentvillager]

this is like totally different from his vibe in the other game idk

[innocentvillager]

scum is like {charl strange a50 numberQ} or something weird like that

[innocentvillager]

idk just throwing it out there

[innocentvillager]

Cyrus62 joins us as co-mod

EVEN OUR MOD IS BORED OUT OF HIS MIND THAT HE FOUND SOMEONE ELSE TO COUNT THE VOTES FOR HIM

I think NM specifically was curious what would happen if some people took this setup seriously so I doubt this is true lol

[innocentvillager]

What am I supposed to say or do? One joins a game of suicidal bombers and expects to see some SUICIDE BOMBING going! How naive of me, right?

you can talk more about your reads and try to get pooky killed if you are voting him

where’s your head at on who scum is

I remember your D1 reads in team large normal being fairly good

[innocentvillager]

something about strange’s vibe kinda pingu idk

[innocentvillager]

pooky/strange/charl? idk I don’t know if I tl pooky like this vibe is so easy for scum him to fake

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: A50

why are you selfvoting

[innocentvillager]

pooky/strange/charl? idk I don’t know if I tl pooky like this vibe is so easy for scum him to fake

okay obviously throwing out whole team solves on d1 is dumb in the sense that they're never right, but the reason i think something like this is plausible is im considering the case where like, assuming cows is town and working from "what do scum want to do in this gamestate" and the answer i kinda came to is like

maybe it matters whether or not they feel as though they're currently threatened to die

i think the threat of dying d1 is scary enough that we're probably going to end up doing a lot of level 1 associative analysis on wagons from D1 when deciding who to blow up later, and scum know that. so if you're in a spot where you don't really need to force anything because no one is in danger, you can afford to spread out/do nothing to let town apathy sink it/look good

yes the cows wagon is gone now but no one really did ANYTHING. which means scum were complacent with the gamestate or cows is scum with some people who don't give a shit about this game and were willing to just let him loldie. the latter seems more unlikely to me so purely from a gamestate perspective that makes me think cows is more likely to be town. idk i can't really read the slot from dayplay tho but it sounds like people weren't very pressed about his elimination until clemency unvoted.

none of these 3 are in real danger of being wagoned, though i could say that about a lot of people ig so this is weak but here is how these could fit that bill

scum!Pooky is emulating his lazy town meta (from previous iterations of this) here refusing to play the game until D2, but it's also just a good way to get past the D1 elim when he keeps saying he'll blow himself up d2. he doesn't powerwolf here because he didn't as town previously and thus he does not need to here.

scum!charl is detached from this game unlike the previous game because deepwolfing is hard and he doesn't feel the need to deepwolf for whatever reason, presumably because his teammates are doing fine/partners aren't in danger of the d1 elim. also im a little queasy at his gentle nudges towards hurrying the day up and killing cows near the beginning when it was clear that last game the kill someone quickly strategy which he hammered wasn't good (and he admitted it too). id expect town!charl to be doing more analysis or something or at least trying to give actual good reasons for pushing cows idk

scum!Strange is playing the role of being very vocal against the whole scum trying to rush D1 but hasn't been proactively doing anything which i find kind of incongruent. i think that pings me because it feels like his adamance against players like pooky who are memeing is theatre either with a scumbuddy or just to look town. if cows goes through i think this play is like some sort of hedge about being scum being spread out among the gamestate or whatever.

yes narrative narrative ik i acknowledge that but i am simply just trying to piece together some theories based on what i have seen

and yeah all of this is contingent on cows actually being town so doing pre flip associative analysis is normally bad? but in this game we don't get D1 back so i think it's something we can focus on more than normal

[innocentvillager]

A50 is very likely town because this is town him like what the fuck is scum!A50 doing here it makes no sense

cows is probably town because gamestate
Pav is probably town because everything he's doing feels consistent and i think scum him tries harder
Clemency is probably town because he does a lot of weird things and i don't think scum want to be particularly polarizing
Enchant likely town because he's not doing anything at all with a low post count, he doesn't give a shit.
schadd kinda just vibing whatever i like some of his thoughts i think they're nuanced and feel somewhat organic
T3 super SOC sheepy and kinda detached this feels very similar to some of his town vibes but my read here has deteriorated a bit. the sheep on my initial call to action and the snap unvotes with clem felt like they were in the right headspace ig idk.

and im not sure on numberQ

[innocentvillager]

scum is like {charl strange a50 numberQ} or something weird like that

i can't believe i had A50 in my poe here i think it's clear he's town at this point

replace A50 with Pooky and i think that's my PoE ill kill there today still least enthusiastic about killing Q of those 4

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Pooky

I do believe that's where I was voting last before I self-voted

See this is why the self-vote isn't a knockdown townlock for me

i think if he's just doing it for AtE he doesn't switch back to Pooky like half a page later

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Pooky it's worth pressuring here if people don't want to go to charl or strange

[innocentvillager]

im just paranoid of pookyscum coming up with some beautiful sounding shit to say that makes us all heavily reconsider but let's see o.o

pedit: oh hi

[innocentvillager]

honestly i don't really know if there's anything you could say that would make me townread you but that's mostly out of respect for your scumgame ig

[innocentvillager]

you want me to think my vote isn't doing anything useful and unvote right

[innocentvillager]

i honestly don't know how i expected you to react but it almost feels obviously you would be very nonplussed about being run up in hindsight

[innocentvillager]

do you really think you'd be playing this that differently as scum?

[innocentvillager]

you really think he is obvious town?

i think he was potentially just trying to dodge the D1 elimination with his promises for d2

That by itself is not really scum!indicative on its own but doesn’t make me think obvious town

idk pooky is the least confident of my 3 though

[innocentvillager]

Okay sure there’s the “they are good at scum so they would never been in this highly suspected position as scum so they are town” argument

I think that’s valid to a point but here are some counterpoints I’ll suggest

I don’t think he expected to be the D1 elim, I think he was expecting people to just kill cows from the get go and used his memery self from past games to go for this

Only very recently did real suspicion get on him, he wasn’t in danger for like the majority of the game

Also, you realize that there is a big difference between dying D1 instaloss and dying on subsequent days, taking down another townie

I also don’t think he’s going to radically change his playstyle from previous pandemoniums bc he was town in both of those

Idk I’m not like sold on him scum I just don’t think he’s townie

[innocentvillager]

also idk if he’s even taking this game that seriously even if he is scum so

I also think his reaction here is null because I don’t think he believes he can get away with faking sudden cares about this game so if he’s scum he’s just low effort AtEing but if he’s town it’s still in line with his overarching attitude this whole game

[innocentvillager]

Okay sure there’s the “they are good at scum so they would never been in this highly suspected position as scum so they are town” argument

Do you fucking read what i write?

By claiming "I will explode immediatly" he forcing self to... Well. Explode. It's not in mafia priority you know. If he doesh't explode, then someone else will explode on him for reverting.

yes I did read what you wrote but I don’t think you read what I wrote?

mafia priority is to not die D1

falling back on “I’ll lol blow up tomorrow” on D1 doesn’t mean that much in this game

[innocentvillager]

pooky can you give a list of some potential partners of cows

[innocentvillager]

pooky can you give a list of some potential partners of cows

in this game you just kill the people who werent voting for him on d1 duh

okay let's just look at the list then

VC 1.08

Pavowski (1)-

numberQ

schadd_ (0)-

T3 (1)-

StrangeMatter

innocentvillager (0)-

charlemagne (0)-

cowsloveSushirolls (5)-

PookyTheMagicalBear, Pavowski, T3, Clemency, charlemagne

(E-2)

PookyTheMagicalBear (1)-

Almost50

Enchant (0)-

numberQ (2)-

innocentvillager, schadd_

StrangeMatter (1)-

cowsloveSushirolls

Almost50 (0)-

Clemency (0)-

Not Voting (1)-

Enchant

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to instantly eliminate.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-10-30 21:00:00)

- Oct 30th 21:00 GMT

Enchant, schadd, innocentvillager, A50, Strange, numberQ

this is the list of players who haven't voted cows

if cows is scum, we'd expect the two partners to be here right under this logic?

If Pooky is town then i don't see why Enchant is being so vitriolic about defending Pooky so it's probably not cows/Enchant/non-pooky, also Pooky is just town for the votepark

schadd seems fine and at least is defending you and now is even pushing back to cows when the wagon on you is very unstable. Again schadd/cows/non-pooky doesn't make sense.

I'm not scum, ive been p townie on dayplay i feel
A50 is clear town on dayplay

leaves like, exactly Strange and numberQ

The only like, maybe scum voting for scum!cows is clemency? but it seems too theatre so i don't really believe it

are there parts of this people disagree with

[innocentvillager]

schadd i did read your interaction with cows and it is like slightly pingy but not enough to make cows into a SR for me. i think id need to see a bit more

i resonate with the idea that when people go like "this is what i was thinking, it's very clear, how can you not understand that" it's a towntell

im less convinced that mafia are intentionally playing "unpinned" to keep their options open as a hedge. it feels like if it is true that mafia play as you described then it is more just like reflective of a subconscious "trying to explain away their actions/hide guilt" mindset

but the fact that it's still a towntell definitionally implies the absence of that when questioned about mindset is a weak scumtell so regardless you might be right

i just don't feel that it's particularly strong, i find that the other side would've been stronger for me personally. and it does seem like between the two games the way he's been getting pressured feels p different, in the game you linked it was more direct and so he could give more of a direct response.

[innocentvillager]

i think 596 seemed like a pretty reasonable reply that feels at least consistent? i also have felt like the shade towards cows is like very nebulous this game, and also many people are treating this like a meme game

also for some reason townies IN GENERAL are totally okay being the d1 elim for some weird reason, like hello we literally win 25% of the time if you swing it onto someone that's not you?? id be PISSED if i were getting seriously wagoned this game lol

but ya idk

i will admit that: it is weird that cows has posted so much and i can't get a read off him on dayplay, it always feels like there's just this dripping dry somewhat self-deprecating humor in all of his posts which is actually by default kind of scummy because i don't see him going through all the emotions of getting pressured and stuff it feels very flat. Which actually maybe now that im writing this makes it feel town!indicative/NAI again because scum feel way more pressure being run up despite being weird. could just be playstyle specific idk.

i also feel like i put more stock into what i think is going on in the gamestate as i underlined above and i think there are not many people that make sense as cows partner at this point in time.

i am very open to my mind being changed about that though

[innocentvillager]

it feels like an uphill battle getting reads when 70% of the plist isn't even trying to play the game but whatever i will still try. i wanted a green role PM after a miserable scum streak and here it is lol. there's always rereading i guess

[innocentvillager]

i really can't fault anyone for not trying bc this is kind of just a meme game lol

i skimmed cows's iso again

meh it's like fine idk i still don't have a strong opinion on it

schadd are there other particular posts that you think are potentially reflective of the scum mindset you described?

one thing i did feel is: i don't think anyone like strongly townreads him or has really expressed much of an opinion about him so i think the fact that his tone and playstyle isn't really changing throughout all of that is like slightly town!indicative

in the scum!cows hypothetical land im wondering if his partner equity with numberQ is actually fairly high, he WK'd numberQ a decent amount and put a bunch of specific thoughts on him and even sort of tried to incept the idea into my mind that my vote on numberQ at the time was unreasonable, but that easily could've just been town!cows going "i put some real thoughts im proud of and you didn't really consider it"/he was actually trying to read me still so im not sure

yeah i don't think scum!cows WKs town!numberQ like that since numberQ was the second highest wagon and cows was in danger of getting run up again, so if cows is scum numberQ is probably also scum

[innocentvillager]

@numberQ why exactly are you losing confidence in the read? just because no one else has been sheeping you on it?

pedit: <3

[innocentvillager]

okay down let's talk about Pavowski because that's the topic that you seem most engaged in right now, there could be merit to your suspicion now that im relooking all this

Kind of doing this piecemeal, so there may be more I want to comment on between my last post and this one. Wanted to get this out though.

VOTE: cows

The vote on strange makes no sense, and somehow putting Clem and Strange on similar footing here also makes no sense

Gonna move my vote due to this post. A50 feels like a dead end anyway, didn't really get a reaction like I wanted other than what looks like OMGUS retaliation. Which, maybe a scumtell? But eh I don't think so. Plus, after some reflection I think it's just his posting style that I struggle to understand. Which is not necessarily scummy.

Pav on the other hand is pinging me hard with this one. Made me look through his iso, and every single post can come from a scum or null POV. Very little looks town-oriented imo.

ISO 0-3 are RVS or contentless, which is fine for early game.

ISO 4 is him giving me town points because I basically said "everyone's shitposting so what do?" Not sure I get why that's +town. I was not under too much scrutiny at the time aside from a single vote from A50, so this feels like scum!Pav pretending to analyze.

ISO 5 is unvoting Clem, I assume because RVS was over. Null.

ISO 6 is giving out a few vague yet fairly popular reads. Again, scum pretending to analyze without rocking the boat.

ISO 7 + 8 are null.

ISO 9 is the one I quoted at the top of the post, and it feels so weird. Why does the Strange vote make no sense? I mean, okay, I was kind of saying the same thing in my last post when I found it odd that cows was analyzing me so much then turned around to vote Strange. But Pav doesn't mention that at all, for some reason it's cows mentioning Clem that is suspicious? I don't buy it. This is scum!Pav finding a reason to jump on a wagon.

ISO 10 is null.

ISO 11 + 12 is IIOA. Scumtell only with other scummy context, which in this case, means it's a scumtell.

VOTE: Pavowski

Is anyone getting a different read from Pav's ISO?

so i already remember getting slightly pinged by Pav's early ISO and i think these are fair points, and the fact that i vaguely recall having similar thoughts about all of the posts you have a problem with so that's +town to you actually lol for me.

4 is weird because i got the exact opposite read on your post there (88), it looked like a really shallow analysis from you and that was actually the reason i voted you, so when he said you were town for that it was kinda weird. if you also think it's weird then maybe it actually is +scum, and your narrative of him just wanting to fake analysis could make sense. But if we assume you're town then id also put a similar weight on your post there, so just from that townies can do that kind of analysis too

6 vaguely pingy but i have no concrete reason for this

9 was sheepy at the time and pinged me too, which is why i asked why he just voted him straight up without trying to ask cows to make sense of it "I can't understand what you did so im going to just you!!"

i don't really agree that 11 and 12 are scummy, i think engaging with the mech play discussion is fine bc this is an important unique feature of this game and something i spent a lot of time doing

going a little past when you made your initial post

i liked his 13-15 sequence, i think that's when i started to reevaluate on pav. i think this energy has been relatively consistent (the "let's just pressure people normally and not be so worried about killing people energy").

i don't think the initial outburst (13) is something scum would go out of their way to do for no reason. you can argue that it was just scum!him trying to persuade people to quickelim town!cows but i think it reads as real frustration that was relatively in line with what he said earlier about pressuring people and it didn't end up affecting any change at all

he even clarifies and backtracks a little in 14 and 15 which i don't feel scum feel the need to do, i think they just double down on what they say in order to get cows killed if that's the agenda

i think the 19-20 sequence is more just kind of consistent with the overall vibe and energy he is giving off. not the content but the response to clemency getting heated about the game was definitely an actual reaction - i think he was genuinely disappointed to see clem votepark pooky like that. Now that might not seem like it's town!indicative, but two scenarios here: a) pooky is town b) pooky is scumpartner. In scenario a) don't think pav genuinely gets disappointed there. In scenario b) think he would've tried harder to get clem to unvote pooky; if it's a partner defense he kind of half committed and but didn't do anything actionable. idk it's possible though

also i felt the analysis there was fair and nonpostury. the comment about the braves game at the end made it seem like that was an actual emotional inhibitor towards his reads which i don't think scum actually experience because they're faking the reads so don't think he would've mentioned that as an excuse if he was scum.

i feel the remaining pav posts are pretty null.

tl;dr i agree with you that some of the early iso sticks out as potentially pingy, though all of it is still well within someone's townrange imo. i think some of his iso gets redeemed in the later 13-15 and 19-20 progressions. he's given a very similar and consistent emotional energy throughout the iso that i personally feel would be effortful to fake (but not impossible), and his stances seem to weave consistently throughout his reasoning. im okay with him as a townlean here still

[innocentvillager]

i dunno how much harder cows can scumtell for you guys

it is p funny

i dont care

he’s obvious scum and you don’t care? Weird mindset if you’re town

[innocentvillager]

pooky can you give a list of some potential partners of cows

in this game you just kill the people who werent voting for him on d1 duh

okay let's just look at the list then

VC 1.08

Pavowski (1)-

numberQ

schadd_ (0)-

T3 (1)-

StrangeMatter

innocentvillager (0)-

charlemagne (0)-

cowsloveSushirolls (5)-

PookyTheMagicalBear, Pavowski, T3, Clemency, charlemagne

(E-2)

PookyTheMagicalBear (1)-

Almost50

Enchant (0)-

numberQ (2)-

innocentvillager, schadd_

StrangeMatter (1)-

cowsloveSushirolls

Almost50 (0)-

Clemency (0)-

Not Voting (1)-

Enchant

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to instantly eliminate.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-10-30 21:00:00)

- Oct 30th 21:00 GMT

Enchant, schadd, innocentvillager, A50, Strange, numberQ

this is the list of players who haven't voted cows

if cows is scum, we'd expect the two partners to be here right under this logic?

If Pooky is town then i don't see why Enchant is being so vitriolic about defending Pooky so it's probably not cows/Enchant/non-pooky, also Pooky is just town for the votepark

schadd seems fine and at least is defending you and now is even pushing back to cows when the wagon on you is very unstable. Again schadd/cows/non-pooky doesn't make sense.

I'm not scum, ive been p townie on dayplay i feel
A50 is clear town on dayplay

leaves like, exactly Strange and numberQ

The only like, maybe scum voting for scum!cows is clemency? but it seems too theatre so i don't really believe it

are there parts of this people disagree with

pooky any thoughts on this?

[innocentvillager]

can someone who’s willing to read like barely 200 words give their thoughts on my reads and who cows’ partners might be (especially if you are voting/want to vote cows)

if you think my reads just suck then that’s fine let’s talk about it

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: StrangeMatter

[innocentvillager]

anyone townreading this?

[innocentvillager]

Honestly I'm getting pretty fatigued, and really feeling that D1 should just end already, but I'm also really not feeling that either of the two wagons are scum. Someone tell me who to sheep

don't think numberQ says this as scum with either player with how uncertain the fate of their partner is

[innocentvillager]

regarding 598 / 599: i dont think anything i said is bulletproof or even all that convincing, kind of why i wanted other people to react. in particular the main anchor for me voting cows is that pooky was nominated for paragon this year which i errantly remembered at some point around when i was like doing the whole questioning situation. i think calling it "slightly pingy" is reasonable

ok

thanks for the responses, i enjoy your posts for some reason they're fun to read. in your partners post seems like your pool of partners is like

t3 me a50 numberQ charl Strange

im not scum i really don't care this much about playing scum you can ask anyone who knows me it's sad, ive literally been on a 3 game scum streak and was praying for town. like i am way past scumrange at this point/what i would actually do as scum; i wouldn't want to be here/it's super easy for me to feign boredom in this environment, say a couple of townish looking things every now and then and dip.

idk i think a50 is just town, if he can fake this whole charade as scum power to him i don't see it, seems like you're potentially seeing it too.

i don't really think numberQ is partner even just based on above reaction although i don't feel super strongly about that

i think it's like exactly T3, Charl, Strange

the other people were Pooky (never a partner) and Pav (who literally ranted about people not putting cows at E1) so those are kinda just out

and the fact that so many people just don't make sense as partners while cows isn't scummy like idk man im not really feeling this as the optimal d1 elim

[innocentvillager]

on a dayplay level i still kinda feel like the fact that cows has not changed strategy or tone like this whole game feels p town indicative to me in the sense that they are not like trying to towntell/trying things to survive ?

also the pooky sheer confidence in cows is just BAFFLING to me but i don't think im going to get any more out of him at this point. idk tbh im kind of conflicted on pooky and i will compromise back there sure but part of me does feel that at least his behavior could be consistent with what town him does idk.

im more interested in strange feels like that slot has literally just been coasting and using "uselessness" as an excuse to not engage in controversy

[innocentvillager]

meh i don't think my analysis here is very solid i can see how from an external perspective it may look super subjective and handwavy and that's fine idk i wish i knew what scumtells are actually real lool.

pedit:

scum!charl is detached from this game unlike the previous game because deepwolfing is hard and he doesn't feel the need to deepwolf for whatever reason, presumably because his teammates are doing fine/partners aren't in danger of the d1 elim. also im a little queasy at his gentle nudges towards hurrying the day up and killing cows near the beginning when it was clear that last game the kill someone quickly strategy which he hammered wasn't good (and he admitted it too). id expect town!charl to be doing more analysis or something or at least trying to give actual good reasons for pushing cows idk

this quote and just like meta from the previous iteration of this game. like sure that game was like hours long but he was super active and constantly engaging in analysis etc etc and he felt like a really big threat, here he feels more passive and if he can produce the content he did last game as town he can comfortably do a fraction of that as scum. he doesn't need to do anything here if he's scum which is what im seeing

[innocentvillager]

for

charl

to be scum he'd have to have voted cows early to distance then as the wagon got bigger decided he couldn't back down

switched to strange briefly

then put cows as E2 for a bit

siteflaked/"forgot about this game"

then came back, unvoted and switched to pooky when pookywagon was developing

hmmm i guess it's plausible


i really don't see

T3

as a cows partner though

the constant sheep others onto and off cows seems like a really weird way to half bus and it doesn't look great on the surface so idk why he does that as scum. it reads as not self conscious which i think is a town trait of T3 but i haven't played with scum!T3 so that could be NAI.

Strange

could be anyone's partner with the way he is playing i guess.

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: sm

i dont even care anymore

i will explode on cows as soon as i humanly can if this flips town

did you ever care..?

[innocentvillager]

which is well, really specific and seemingly improbable as it's a 3 person pool but it quite literally can't be anyone else because of Mechanics idk

cows what did you mean here? Pooky has to be scum mechanically - why?

[innocentvillager]

Pooky why are you okay with voting someone cows is voting for

[innocentvillager]

you just want to kill cows and don’t care how right

[innocentvillager]

did we just hammer town? Rip

[innocentvillager]

I’m also not a fan that the wagon went through so quickly

I don’t get why everyone was so impatient but whatever it’s fine

problem is scum can just blend in with that attitude

[innocentvillager]

the wagons that go through that quickly probably just town in general

meh

[innocentvillager]

pooky is blowing up cows tomorrow so

[innocentvillager]

pooky I hope your missiles are ready? I would ideally like you to do it asap without the chance of cows finding someone else to blow up

[innocentvillager]

if this is 0/3 I think we need to slow the fuck day on the next day

if either cows or pooky is scum given strange flips town that’s gonna be sad but I think we’ll have plenty of associatives to figure shit out

[innocentvillager]

I’m also not a fan that the wagon went through so quickly

I don’t get why everyone was so impatient but whatever it’s fine

problem is scum can just blend in with that attitude

And didn't unvote?

dude I have been stalling this day trying to play the game for the past two weeks with virtually no one on my side

You think I am just going to snap hop off the 5th wagon I try 4 days to deadline

i mean I considered it tbh but I’m also getting tired of people complaining about this day not being over so I was like what fucking ever

please play the game tomorrow though

[innocentvillager]

like everyone is mad at me for prolonging the game and now that I don’t decide to unvote despite feeling a little uncomfortable about the wagon speed ppl shade me? lmao I can’t

[innocentvillager]

exactly see people are happy with this so whatever I thought strange was going to be unresolvable basically anyway.

[innocentvillager]

anyone have any objections to pooky blowing up cows at day start? cows any last words?

[innocentvillager]

??????

[innocentvillager]

What the fuck is going on

[innocentvillager]

I thought pooky scumclaimed there

Very confused

Can we not blow people up please for now

[innocentvillager]

something finally happened so hopefully we will all have some more self restraint

[innocentvillager]

okay well my D1 reads were trash again so that’s good at least

time to actually figure out what the fuck is going on

[innocentvillager]

The moral for me is to stop efforting and trying to make confident reads on barren ISOs when no one wants to play the game

gg scum well played