Mini 672 - Tranquility (Game Over)

[Porkens]

charter, he thinks he is lynching one of us intentionally to prove the other. That is the dumbest thing I have heard all game though. Sacrafice a town player to prove another and NOT catch any scum.

Well it won't at this point, that's for sure.

[Porkens]

At this point I'm pretty sure im lynicng minority.

[Kmd4390]

And you could have shown us your breadcrumb, and we WOULD HAVE COUGHT SCUM. (So much for your last point there, too)

I don't like the idea of town players self-sacraficing for something that may or may not work to catch scum.

Either way, this is pointless to discuss. We have already both claimed, so this won't happen.

[Kmd4390]

Well it won't at this point, that's for sure.

Why bother lynching one to prove the other then?

[Kmd4390]

At this point I'm pretty sure im lynicng minority.

You definitely aren't...

[charter]

Besides the fact that there's no way of balancing a cult in a mini, short of handing out Jesus like roles, it's not true because what if I actually was scum, then he wouldn't recruit me. Plus, why on earth would you have chosen your recruitee that early in day one?

The theory is bogus, end of story.

[Kmd4390]

Porkens, your reluctance to believe the claim looks even worse for you. You look like scum trying to convince the town that claimed masons are scum so you don't have to use NKs on both.

[Lord Gurgi]

The Eighteenth Votecount - Ten alive, six to lynch

charter (3) - camn, melikefood, Nameless

Porkens (2) - charter, Kmd4390
camn (1) - Stef
Kmd4390 (1) - Porkens

Not Voting (2) - ZazieR, Rishi

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and for those who say I was unclear about stormer, I have the following statement for you:

I AM 100% AGAINST A LYNCH OF CHARTER FOR ANY REASON. HE IS NOT SCUM (MINORITY) AND SHOULD NOT BE LYNCHED. I THINK THAT ANYONE VOTING HIM SHOULD UNVOTE NOW. I WOULD BE AGAINST ANY HAMMER OR VOTE OF ANY KIND ON CHARTER.

[Porkens]

Porkens, your reluctance to believe the claim looks even worse for you.

I'm not afraid of getting lynched like you are.

Anyway, That's some great WIFOM boys. I like it alot.

I guess the rest of this will have to wait till the rest of the game logs in. Good Night.

[Porkens]

Just to make my stance clear for those of you just waking up:

I don't buy the mason claim.
I think if KMD and Charter were masons, they wouldn't have claimed together (see above about catching scum).

They "may" be cult, but that's tinfoil hat mostly.
Therefor, I'm fine with lynching either of them, but KMD is best, imo, because if there IS a cult, I think he'd be the leader.

[charter]

Oh, and for those who say I was unclear about stormer, I have the following statement for you:

I AM 100% AGAINST A LYNCH OF CHARTER FOR ANY REASON. HE IS NOT SCUM (MINORITY) AND SHOULD NOT BE LYNCHED. I THINK THAT ANYONE VOTING HIM SHOULD UNVOTE NOW. I WOULD BE AGAINST ANY HAMMER OR VOTE OF ANY KIND ON CHARTER.

Same thing, but with Kmd.

[camn]

Wow. I guess that answers my question about how you were so confident on KMD...

###Unvote

I DO buy the mason Claim. For now.
Charter's play has backed it up.... so I don't see why Porkens is still all over them.
You don't want to give them a night and see what happens?

I don't know the count right now.. and It's late... and I clearly nead to re-read in light of this new info.. but for now I am against Either a KMD or Charter Lynch. Which is nice, Because I have always thought KMD was innocent.. and Charter I can live with

[SpyreX]

First off, part 1:

I apologize LG, I shouldn't have lost my temper.

First off, part 2:

Dont you

dare

try to blame this fiasco on me. Yes, I dont have a vote on you

now

but if you think this makes you some "awesome confirmed power town duo" no.

Both of you softclaimed. This happened. This caused this. Any idea what my role is? Of course not - because I wouldn't be silly enough to drop "secret hints"

unless I absolutely thought it was 100% necessary.

The reason why I unvoted is that this early in the game scum would have to have absolute brass balls to setup a situation where if one gets nailed, both do (and there is NO wiggle room out of that since you are mod-confirmed alignment wise).

Now, with that said. Its a DUH, but neither of you are the correct lynch for today. However I dont agree with the push on Porkens for it either.

Holding to it and thinking cult isn't a total "dream" theory - hell KMD brought up exactly how it would work. However, I'm not about to entertain the idea - short of a cult cop or any reason to believe it (and with a NK thats even more reason to NOT believe it) there's no reason to think you're cult.

However, and we can argue about this all you want, its not a "surprise" it went this way. We just need to pick up the pieces and move forward. I dont think ANY of you are a good lynch choice which leaves me with two and two baby ones.

But, first a few questions and specific statements.

That's how I know porken's camn-kmd thing is so horribly wrong, that's why if it was an endgame with me, kmd, and porkens, I'd obviously vote porkens, that's why if you quickhammered me or kmd, you'd be lynched without mercy. That's why me and kmd have agreed without elaborating and why we've never even considered looking at the other.

Again, I was the first one to really bring up this theory. Also, if you can't see how the above business with the quickhammer AND the agreement without elaborating is scummy... well.

You're wrong spyrex because two of your top three suspects are town and I've known it the whole game. That's why I just kept saying you're wrong, but I couldn't explain it without giving myself away. I don't think KMD's gambit can tell us much, but I know the reason he did it was to catch scum, so I at least have faith in his analysis of it (which is the main reason camn has been my backburner suspect most of the game). You kept pushing why I knew you were wrong, obviously I had some extra knowledge everyone else didn't, but you just pushed harder, until now, where me and kmd's roles are essentially worthless now. You have completely tunneled in on me and kmd and it has blinded you to listening to our arguments, which are actually pretty good.

Two of my top 3, sure. However, both of you have came off as pro-Rishi. Is this a byproduct of you being masons and sharing opinions or?

As for your roles being worthless - I'm getting one last jab in... you guys did this to yourselves and I dont feel bad about it one bit. However, it's not worthless - you're still as confirmed as you're gonna get for now which limits the pool of mislynches by 20%. Thats not bad.

Also, and I know I've said this over and over - I have not thought your arguments are good. Consistently I've gotten "this is crap" or things of that nature in regards to my questions - and, even if you are town dont think that means I'm going to blindly follow you.

Now, KMD - even with this revelation this exchange bothers me. Why did you get after Porkens for calling out Rishi's claim (and not me) with this revelation. I think you KNOW the question I'm going to ask and we're going to be exactly where we are now if you dont answer it: is it just TWO of you masons?

And... well, because its funny to me:

I don't remember what the question was, but trust me, I wasn't softclaiming any kind of investigating role.

A mason IS an investigative role if you are mod-confirmed.

If this isn't fishing, then neither is attaching a worm to the end of a rod and throwing it in a lake.

Again, you guys made the statements. "who is the cop" is rolefishing. Calling out I have secret information, isn't.

This is the point I have been making and now you are making the same point as an arguement against me.

There are OTHER things is what I was getting at.

Also, as for my "fishing for information" in general. Don't dangle it out and I'm not going to fish. "I know thiingggsss" isn't protown and I'm not going to ever assume it is.

Onto the real business. If you two are clear for multiple reasons I'm gonna have to

##Vote: Camn

. I'm still very suspicious of Rishi and now with masons a little suspicious of MLF again.. and now I'll even say I am suspicious of Nameless. As a third and I need to reread but its there.

so, tldr:

1.) I believe the masons for now. That is not an excuse to play like crazy fishes.
2.) I STILL want Rishi to explain his business.
3.) I am now fine with Camn or Rishi with a huge watch on MLF and a smaller one on Nameless.

[camn]

Great. Am I going to get hella Shrapnel now?

Well, better to kill me than anyone important, I guess........

[Nameless]

However, I have plenty of other words.

I just have to say, regardless of anybody's alignment ... SpyreX, you are an AWESOME poster.

I'm a mason, kmd is my buddy

NOT.

BUYING.

IT.

(Since everybody else seems to have devolved into an internet argument)

But listen, us few mafioso, and I shall tell you a nice peaceful story instead.

As you already know, it has been my opinion for some time now that Kmd and Charter are the scummiest players in this game. From Charter's lurking, Kmd's empty posts, the awful cases and gambits, the apathy and the exaggeration. They were the kind of scum you loved to hate, but would ultimately triumph over.

I would have lynched either of them happily D1, of course, but due to general disagreement and Stormer's awful play he was apparently the Designated Lynch and we lost one of the few good players in this game (Drake). Things seemed to be looking up D2, though, with many other people displaying suspicion on them and either being a credible lynch choice as deadline approached. When I placed Charter at L-1 I was honestly hoping to come home and find him dead.

But then, alas, this mess. Yelling. Inane theories. My precious bandwagon, gone.

And all because of one meaningless claim.

I guess Kmd is cleverer than I gave him credit for, to set this up. The baseball discussion had come under scrutiny a few times, but for all the wrong reasons. Would it have mattered if the breadcrumb had been spotted earlier? Probably not, because it still proves the same thing: Precaution.

But not innocence.

We know Kmd is capable of thinking ahead; his so-called gambit, and probably his defence of stormer, prove this. Kmd hid a message, to use if he or Charter were in danger, but what we have to realise is that establishing a link between two players and proving by having charter bring it to light does not actually prove any ability that is unique to a power role, no, but something much more common in fact to our ever present enemies: the scum. Kmd made that breadcrumb to use as a last resort and informed charter and a third unknown party during the first night while they were secretly discussing who to kill.

It was a smart plan too, but perhaps with one flaw: While it has given those two players an excuse to publicly defend each other it makes no explanation for the heavy scumtells displayed by either, only relying on the all too present nervousness and reluctance of the innocents that they will edge away from either and waste time trying to lynch the single other member hidden, probably bussing, amongst the masses. And risky, of course ... the downfall of one now guarantees the exposure of the other.

So L-1 is reached and Charter panics, revealing Kmd's other gambit. And it works, the town falls apart into screams of cult and proof and pointing fingers at other targets while the unknown third scum has an excuse to fade into obscurity and Charter just sits back secretly smiling in relief and watching as everything falls into place.

This is where we are now, but I can only hope this is not where the story ends.

[Rishi]

Hey. Sorry for being absent. I wasn't actually lurking - wasn't checking the thread at all. (Not really checking Mafiascum at all except the games that I'm modding.)

Did a quick read-through of the stuff I missed. I believe the mason claim, for now. At least I agree that Kmd and charter aren't good lynches today.

Also, SpyreX, I have no intention of answering the question you want answered. There's discussion about it in the thread (not necessarily by me). I suggest you go back and look for it.

As for other questions directed towards me, I will catch up and get to those within the next day or so. I wish I could say that things will be less busy for me this week, but that's not true.

[Nameless]

So, good job Kmd, but seriously guys we need to lynch Charter. (Remember all those scumtells against him? The great chance of him being scum? They still count.) Lynch Charter today, and Kmd will die tomorrow (either by having damned himself or NKed after being confirmed). Best case scenario we've almost one, worst case scenario we're probably in Lylo. It's a risk, but the odds are in the majority's favour, and trying to figure out the next best lynch now is likely to end in failure (and Charter/Kmd almost certainly still alive leaving the same choice tomorrow but with worse consequences for being wrong).

This bandwagon isn't over until I

say

it's over!

[Nameless]

[/Drama]

(Anyway, at least that was fun to write. )

[ZazieR]

I'll look tomorrow at all the other posts that I missed, but I want to give a comment about that claim.
Even if they are telling the truth, there's always a possibility that one of the masons is minority.

However, if they are telling the truth and both are majority, then we kinda lose a power role.

I want to know from Charter (so KMD don't answer) what they exactly discussed. So no excuses. Just a summary of what you discussed.

This could just become a soap.
At this moment, Charter revealed to Nameless that Nameless is actually Charter's child and KMD admits that this is the truth. But as always, children don't want to except things like this. How will this story end?
Hopefully a happy ending .

Nameless, this is drama .

[charter]

@Spyrex, I completely see how you could have thought of me as scum. I saw it the whole time, but other than just repeating, "you're wrong spyrex", I had no way of getting you off my back. It obviously isn't your fault either. I didn't even try and act not scummy. Two reasons. First, I had a power role, so generally if you attract some (but not the most) attention during the day, you won't get lynched, and you certainly won't get NK'ed. Second, it was easy to act scummy, because I knew from the getgo another persons role and alignment, same as scum. However, I believe it will be easy to tell that we are in fact masons if anyone were to read through the game. There is no FoS's, no suggesting the other might be suspicious, no questioning suspicious things the other has done. None of scum distancing or bussing.

Why do you not think Porkens is scum? He didn't even wait or want to discuss our claim. He explains it by a wild cult theory (it is wild, see how often cults are used in a 12 person game, I don't even know if it's ever happened).

I keep saying you're different even though you are doing the same stuff as porkens and nameless because I don't just see a scumtell and go 'OMG scum' I interpret it and disect it. Your play is telling me you aren't scum, while there's is. Porkens has now lost any hope of me thinking he's not scum

However, both of you have came off as pro-Rishi. Is this a byproduct of you being masons and sharing opinions or?

We think other people are scum, Rishi isn't one of those, but we don't think he's even close to a definate townie either. Me and KMD are the only masons, Rishi isn't one of us.

Hey, looks like I was right about Nameless as well. All of your scumtells are explained away by the fact that I interpret and think about things before I act on them.

I want to know from Charter (so KMD don't answer) what they exactly discussed. So no excuses. Just a summary of what you discussed.

I already did at the bottom of 580. Are you sure you didn't switch us and want KMD's?

[Porkens]

He didn't even wait or want to discuss our claim.

I unvoted, I didn't put you back at L-2, and, post after post, I discussed your claim.

[charter]

I mean with anyone besides me and KMD. That's what a discussion is, it involves everyone. You immediately assumed we are lying (although, you kind of have to being scum and whatnot) and explain it by another crackpot theory.

MOD, if there were cultists in this game, do they get to talk at night?

If LG says no, then Porkens is lying scum and should be lynched, if LG says yes, Porkens is scum and should be lynched. If LG says no comment, see if LG says yes.

I cannot recall. I AM NOT A CROOK!

[Porkens]

No one was on, charter, who was I going to talk to?

You must admit that it was unnecessary to out KMD when you claimed, do you not see how that would have been better? I know at least KMD does; he layed it out perfectly in one of his posts last night.

How have I

lied

? I didn't have the benefit of pre-knowledge when I started suspecting/talking about KMD and being wrong isn't scummy. You're push against me, at this point, is simple OMGUS. Take another look at your list of suspects. I may have been the most vocal, but see if you can find something substantial.

Having slept on it, I agree that this claim (as badly done as it was) is too bold for a scum-pair to make at this point in the game.

And you are right; a cult would be overpowered in a 12 person game (where I come from, masons can recruit, and I always forget they don't here.)

So,

##unvote

Now, as I said before; I thought either KMD or Camn were scum.

##vote: Camn

[Kmd4390]

Crap, I lost my post. I'll do it all again. Probably in more than one post so that doesn't happen again.