Mini 672 - Tranquility (Game Over)

[camn]

Ps.. Spyrex.. you quoted me asking someone a question, and said you haven't seen me asking any all in one post

Not that I am saying I am on the offense right now. I'm not. I am WAYY too busy thinking about poor Derek Jeter, spending October at home for the first time, watching a tiny, small-market team with a salary cap 1/5th the size of his representing the AL East.

Plus taking crap from you and KMD.

[SpyreX]

If I thought YOU were agro, I would tell you that. I like how you are playing. I say keep it up.
I only mentioned that because one of the "points" against me is "lack of scumhunting".
I understand it is the ethos on this site.. but I don't totally agree that EVERYONE should AGGRESSIVELY hunt people from the get go. Thus I don't agree with it being a point against me.
I also disagree that it is always pro-town....

I...thought I said that it wasn't always pro town to hunt. That its a case-by-case thing (hence, a null-tell). However, lurking and not contributing IS definitely anti-town.

You say you need to take time and ask questions - which is fine. However, I haven't seen any of it. Hence the reason its a "point".

Regarding my stupid post #33.. I meant it how I said I meant it. Taking it any other way is just being hardheaded. I had no outrage... I was hoping that KMD would actually take a stand against the lynch. Then we could look at that stand when we found out if Stormer was scum or not.

This is going to be one of those issues where we're not going to see eye-to-eye. I read it, read it and read it again and every time I see the implication of Stormer being scum.

So, yea, I read into things. But..thats the point, isn't it?

[camn]

Yes, I guess. But you shouldn't get TOO hung up!

And are you saying I am "lurking"? Because I certainly agree that lurking is scummy.

c

[Rishi]

Scum (Minority) Points

-Possible Nameless connection. (connections don't always mean scum, and aren't always actually there)
-Voted Food, but later said he believed the claim. (I might not have quoted where he says he believes the claim, but I remember reading it.)
-Too picky with terminology when going after Food

Other Points that could probably go either way

-Only one RVS post
-Didn't see Stormer as scum
-"curious" about why Food wasn't NK'd.

Conclusion (finally):Of the three town points, two are helpfulness which scum can do to look townie, and one is use of common sense as a townie. The town points are things that scum can do. I find myself agreeing with a lot of what he said though. The scum points are weak too. The Nameless connection is only something to look at if either of them dies. The terminology thing was explained. The only thing I would like to know is this. Rishi: What changed your mind from Day 1 where you voted Food to Day 2 where you say you believe Food's claim?

Okay, responding to some of the points in this post. Sorry it took so long.

First of all, connections don't mean scum unless you know the alignment of one of the players. A lot of people think that it's useful to look for scumbuddies, but I think, unless it's a really small game - or there aren't many players left, that you're better off looking for scum and not scumpairs. By the way, this is the exact same reason that SpyreX's claim that defending me is scummy is not a good argument.

As for being too picky with terminology with food, I agree that I might have gone overboard with that one. I later conceded that I was pushing too hard. So I admit that wasn't my most shining moment in this game.

As for flipping on my opinion of melikefood, I told you that I did a meta-read on him. There may be other reasons why I might have had a change of position on melikefood. Think about it and let me know if you still want this question answered.

Okay. Other stuff. I admitted that I have significantly cut down on the amount of time I am able to log in to Mafia. If you look at my posting history, my posting is down all over the site. The fact that I only had one post in the random voting stage is just indicative of the fact that I was busy, nothing else. You can never really accuse anyone of lurking unless you see them posting elsewhere but avoiding a particular thread.

As for stormer, I wasn't sure about his scumminess. I was mostly just saying that his newbish play was a null-tell. I did a meta-read on him, and I could easily believe that he played like that as an Innocent Mafia. I've been an IC (and mod) on a lot of newbie games, and I feel like people were just looking for an easy target.

As far as the helpfulness of figuring out the terminology, I don't know if it helped. I still see a lot of people slipping up. People use "scum" fairly consistently to mean townscum, but I see a lot of people saying "town" when they mean "innocent Mafia." I really wish we had cleared that up in the beginning. Oh well.

Also, SpyreX, seriously, drop the argument that I was distracting the thread by trying to clarify the terminology. Just because you personally didn't think it was useful, there are obviously people in this thread who did. In fact, you're the only person who I have really seen make the argument. If you keep repeating it to yourself enough, then maybe it'll become true. You're also kind of tunnel-visioning. I am sure there's probably scum among the players who participate a little less. If there are innocents arguing with other innocents, there's no reason for scum to even get involved. Some of them are probably sitting on the sidelines.

As for camn, how can I say anything bad about camn? I've even forgiven her for being scum in the last game we were in together and completely pulling the wool over my eyes and then NKing me. I might have to look at that game again, but I don't really remember her trying to buddy up to people there. She was actually a lot more argumentative then. That game kind of sucked though. The one thing I don't like about her play in this game is that she keeps bringing up off-topic conversation. She's definitely not lurking, but off-topic posting is a fine way to make it seem like you're participating when you're really not.

Anyway, sorry for the long, kind of stream of consciousness post, folks. Hopefully it was semi-coherent.

[Nameless]

In fact, you're the only person who I have really seen make the argument.

One my first points against you (#41) was regarding your insistence on terminology (although not for quite the same reason, but I agree with SpyreX), and charter stated he agreed with it (#42). Drake also stated later (#61) he thought people doing so were either lazy or scum. Kmd has accused YOU of confusing the majority with terminology (#258). Stef doesn't like people picking on terminology (#316). Porkens

used

to think it was scummy, if that counts (#354).
Nothing serious though, I'm just showing my working. Just because nobody else pushes the argument doesn't mean they don't agree with it though.

What is stupid about those statements?

They are (in order):

- An admission that you have no intent to actually defend yourself against accusations or even justify your ridiculous reply.
- Pointless post padding that's even more annoying than usual given the amount of otherwise (mostly) valid posting to read through.
- Bringing up a humorous signature as if it were somehow a serious point and questioning the validity of the ENTIRE PURPOSE of playing the vanilla uninformed majority.
- Seriously suggesting that use of the word "are" is scumtell.

DISCLAIMER: I am not completely sure about anything in this post. Any definite should be taken as opinions and not as facts which, as the uninformed majority, I do not know. I also reserve the right to redefine any term or implication made within this post at my later discretion should the original or obvious connotation put me in any kind of negative light whatsoever. Any suggestions are made with no guarantee of explanation and may, or may not, have been retracted by the time you read them should I consider it advantageous to the outing of scum. Furthermore, any inescapable contradictions or conceivable scummy behavior is a gambit to lure scum, and any seemingly repeated statements are not an oversight or a repetition at all but an expanded and increasingly likely demonstration of my correctness (subject to the first opinion and all later clauses). Thank you Kmd, thank you Camn.

[SpyreX]

And are you saying I am "lurking"? Because I certainly agree that lurking is scummy.

No, of course you're not lurking in the classic sense. Its more of a lurking in plain sight kind of thing.

@Rishi:

By the way, this is the exact same reason that SpyreX's claim that defending me is scummy is not a good argument.

Its what he's choosing to defend and how. Notice I defended the hammer. Also, its the "Rishi is town" versus the "Porkens hammer wasn't inherently scummy." Notice I haven't said anything about his alignment, just that action.

Also, if I was saying KMD was scum soley for his interaction with you without flips then yes it would be retarded. However, saying KMD is scummy and, in addition, his interactions with you also play a part isn't.

As for flipping on my opinion of melikefood, I told you that I did a meta-read on him. There may be other reasons why I might have had a change of position on melikefood. Think about it and let me know if you still want this question answered.

Yes. I'd like this question answered.

As far as the helpfulness of figuring out the terminology, I don't know if it helped. I still see a lot of people slipping up. People use "scum" fairly consistently to mean townscum, but I see a lot of people saying "town" when they mean "innocent Mafia." I really wish we had cleared that up in the beginning. Oh well.

If we're using scum to mean scum.. doesn't it follow that town would mean.. town? I'm really not seeing what you're getting at here.

Also, SpyreX, seriously, drop the argument that I was distracting the thread by trying to clarify the terminology. Just because you personally didn't think it was useful, there are obviously people in this thread who did. In fact, you're the only person who I have really seen make the argument. If you keep repeating it to yourself enough, then maybe it'll become true. You're also kind of tunnel-visioning. I am sure there's probably scum among the players who participate a little less. If there are innocents arguing with other innocents, there's no reason for scum to even get involved. Some of them are probably sitting on the sidelines.

I'm

tunnel visioning? Last I checked I've been running around with KMD and Camn and to a degree Charter and I still find your play to be scummy. I still dont like Stef's play... in fact, I was the one that said I could build cases on more players being scum than actual TOWN behavior.

I didn't bring up the whole terminology business again until KMD was trying to give you 'cred' for it. Then yep, I jumped right back in.

As for innocents arguing with other innocents.. how the hell am I to know that? I have every reason to believe that the players I'm arguing with are scum. Should I just stop? Just wait until something new happens so the scum have to play?

A general question: Have I been THIS offbase with everything I've been doing to this point? Because if thats the case I'm more than happy to sit back, lurk away, ask "who is am cop?" and pretty much just drool until the scum devours this game due to apathy.

Hell, I'd like to see most of the players post more. I'd love to see other cases besides the ones I'm pushing. God, of everyone I'm pushing on only KMD has made a case and thats around his "Gambit".

I know where Namless and Porkens stand. I know where KMD stands. I'd still like a re-explanation of Charters case on nameless as well as Stefs.

I'd LOOVEEE to see Camn, Zazier, MLF and Rishi come out with a suspect and a reason.

[melikefood]

I lied.
I'm doing this thing now.

I got myself some free time as my Sis starts watching the President Debate.

Going in order of player list.
Sorry, I can't find actual post #, I'm just using the post filter for speed.

camn

You're a fun person.
You remind me of this one person on this other forum that left because she didn't like the French members.
[/Anecdote of the day]

Anyway, I find the way you play around the votes and pressure a little dangerous.
But it gets people talking so I'm noting you down as good for now.

Charter

You defended me when I was acting really scummy on day 1.
I'm not established in mafia enough to have a reputation for stuff.
And you were defending me for doing a mirror of what I did in Ramen as Town. (Isn't the opposite of Town a Bad Guy?)

Plus the fact that I stated my claim and explained the picture.

And this thing...

Ugh, to elaborate on why I'm suspicious of camn and Porkens. Both seem to be quite worried that they had a hand in lynching a townie. I didn't think stormer was scum, but that doesn't mean that his lynch was a bad one. They seem to be overly concerned with how they look because of it.

I don't really see Camn or Porkens being worried about lynching stormer.
Where did you get that?

Porkens

Surprise hammer was surprising, but was justified because Stormer gave up.

I blocked you so we wouldn't get anymore surprises from you for the day.
Also, do you feel bad for lynching Stormer, as claimed by Charter?

Kmd4390

Your sig really says it all, though....

What good is "scumhunting" if you end up lynching innocents?

Wait. Are you really making a point AGAINST scumhunting? I wish I had another vote because I'd put it on right here.

She's not against scumhunting, she's against BAD scumhunting. (Note the quotes around scumhunting, that changes it to "So called scumhunting")

ZazieR

I don't really have anything to say about you, you haven't really done anything to lean either way.

Nameless

Good Town player in my eyes.
Brings up good questions.

Rishi

As I said with Charter, I don't think reading my past games is very reliable as I'm still trying to grasp all the concepts and tricks of the game.

Spyrex

You've got the towns intrests and you push for them too.

Make a summary?

Stef

Where dya go?

And now, I'll go ahead and vote who I find Scummy.

##Charter

Fail.

[SpyreX]

I dont even know what to say. Its tears of happiness. I mean, I'd like more, but.

What do you want me to make a summary of?

[camn]

Spyrex,... I like how you are playing. I say keep it up.

And whoa... Hi, MLF.

I blocked you so we wouldn't get anymore surprises from you for the day.

What kind of surprise do you mean?
Did you then and do you now think Porkens is scum?
Do you think Porkens has a scum-aligned power role, or did you want to stop a NK?

[Nameless]

Sorry, I can't find actual post #, I'm just using the post filter for speed.

FYI, you can click on the small page image before the "Posted: Wed Oct 08, [etc.]" to bring you to that post in unfiltered view, showing you the post number.

[Rishi]

In fact, you're the only person who I have really seen make the argument.

One my first points against you (#41) was regarding your insistence on terminology (although not for quite the same reason, but I agree with SpyreX)

See. I'm surprised you brought this up, because this was a sign of your hypocrisy, since you raised the issue long before I did. Hmm. I had forgotten about that.

I'm tunnel visioning? Last I checked I've been running around with KMD and Camn and to a degree Charter and I still find your play to be scummy. I still dont like Stef's play... in fact, I was the one that said I could build cases on more players being scum than actual TOWN behavior.

Yes, you are. You are pretty much tunnel-visioning on me, Kmd, and camn. You say the other things for show. You aren't pushing cases on charter and Stef very hard. It feels like, no matter what, you're going to nitpick the three of us and find something scummy in everything we do. It doesn't even matter what we post. And if you're really finding everyone scummy, as you claim, how about posting something on some of the other players? Or learn to separate what is actually scummy behavior and what is play style. Scumhunting is more than just spotting scummy behavior - anyone can do that. The key is distilling what is actually scummy and what's the eccentricities of the individual poster.

As for innocents arguing with other innocents.. how the hell am I to know that? I have every reason to believe that the players I'm arguing with are scum. Should I just stop? Just wait until something new happens so the scum have to play?

I'm not suggesting this. I am suggesting you cast your net wider.

A general question: Have I been THIS offbase with everything I've been doing to this point? Because if thats the case I'm more than happy to sit back, lurk away, ask "who is am cop?" and pretty much just drool until the scum devours this game due to apathy.

Problem is that you're just reacting. Not thinking.

[Nameless]

One my first points against you (#41) was regarding your insistence on terminology (although not for quite the same reason, but I agree with SpyreX)

See. I'm surprised you brought this up, because this was a sign of your hypocrisy, since you raised the issue long before I did.

I asked a question. You pushed one side and (by my interpretation) set up a potential attack on the other. Let's not go into that again.

Yes, you are. You are pretty much tunnel-visioning on me, Kmd, and camn. You say the other things for show. You aren't pushing cases on charter and Stef very hard.

Do you honestly expect one person to simultaneously push five hard cases, with only ten people alive? WTF.

[Kmd4390]

Right now you are scum. If that changes, I'll change what I said. As it is, I have no reason to be uncertain. I dont bite my nails worrying. I aim and fire.

Wrong. Right now, you

think

I am scum. You have no way to be sure of anyone's alignment unless you are scum yourself. I really don't like seeing definites in people's posting.

Of course I'm reading it.

Interesting read?

YOU aren't saying its null - which it is at best. You are saying its pro-town.

I see it as pro-town. You see it as anti-town. Neither of us is going to change our opinion. This is why I am saying we have to agree to disagree. Not because I think it's null.

And himself. And it was nothing. And it didn't do anything. And the point on Stef (much like I feel about Stef's statement) is designed to go either way.

Why are you so adamant to defend Rishi? You did it on day one as well and I commented on it then.

My gut tells me town on Rishi. I can see your argument, but I still think he is town. To answer your question about defending him, Nameless asked for my opinion, I answered, you questioned, I answered. It's not like people attacked him and I said "WAIT, WRONG."

Aside from a jokevote at the very beginning of the game... Yes. If I threw my vote up and everyone followed I wouldn't shed a tear. I vote for who I think is scum, so yes.

Let me ask you this: what do you take from Camn's pressure vote on Stormer. She voted citing pressure, said she was willing to lynch FOR pressure, and allowed the lynch to happen with no more of a case than pressure. Opinions? What about pressure votes in general?

EBWOP: Change what I say, not what I said. I cant go back in time... yet.

I can.

[Kmd4390]

I am saying sure.. I could get all agro and build crap cases against people.. maybe get somebody lynched.. but what good is it if it is a mis-lynch?

If everyone thought this way, the scum would win every time. At least TRY to find scum.

And KMD.. I don't think your obsession with me really counts as "hunting"

You are the person who I consider most likely to be scum. I will pursue that until you are lynched or something drastic changes my mind. Porkens is my second choice. I have mentioned that once or twice. I had a gut feeling on Nameless early. That's still there. I think Rishi and charter are town although I'm not completely sold on Rishi. I'm not just defending myself with every post. I'm looking at everything I see come up.

DAMN IT GUYS, this is not a competition to see who can make the stupidest statements.

First of all, the definites post you quoted was an actual point. Second, I am adding content even if there are a few non-game-related comments thrown in there.

Sadly, KMD got away with being both for- and against- the Stormer Lynch.

How do you still think this? Ok, as clear as possible: I was against it. The only things that would change my mind would be a good case against Stormer or a deadline with no better options. Nothing there suggests that I was for it when it happened; therefore, I was against the Stormer lynch. Am I being clear enough yet?

Not that I am saying I am on the offense right now. I'm not. I am WAYY too busy thinking about poor Derek Jeter, spending October at home

for the first time

, watching a tiny, small-market team with a salary cap 1/5th the size of his representing the AL East.

Not that I want this to start up again, but I'm not going to sit here and just take that. He is out of the playoffs once out of what? 13 years in the majors? This just shows how great the Yankees are. Even the haters EXPECT them to be there. If they miss out one year, they get attacked for it. And give credit to the Rays. If they were the bottom-of-the-division-crap that they usually are, the Yankees would have the wild card. Now back to the game.

Oh, and what made you bring up the Yankees again? That's a real, game-related question.

Plus taking crap from you and KMD.

You can defend yourself and look at a suspicious player or two all at the same time.

[Kmd4390]

First of all, connections don't mean scum unless you know the alignment of one of the players. A lot of people think that it's useful to look for scumbuddies, but I think, unless it's a really small game - or there aren't many players left, that you're better off looking for scum and not scumpairs. By the way, this is the exact same reason that SpyreX's claim that defending me is scummy is not a good argument.

True. Usually for a connection to mean much, a player has to die. They are worth pointing out for future reference though. Wouldn't want to see one and forget about it later.

As for being too picky with terminology with food, I agree that I might have gone overboard with that one. I later conceded that I was pushing too hard. So I admit that wasn't my most shining moment in this game.

Ok.

As for flipping on my opinion of melikefood, I told you that I did a meta-read on him. There may be other reasons why I might have had a change of position on melikefood. Think about it and let me know if you still want this question answered.

I honestly hope you didn't change your opinion on meta alone. It was a big shift from voting him Day 1 to believing him Day 2.

Okay. Other stuff. I admitted that I have significantly cut down on the amount of time I am able to log in to Mafia. If you look at my posting history, my posting is down all over the site. The fact that I only had one post in the random voting stage is just indicative of the fact that I was busy, nothing else. You can never really accuse anyone of lurking unless you see them posting elsewhere but avoiding a particular thread.

Fair enough.

General Observation: You rely on meta a lot....

[Kmd4390]

No, of course you're not lurking in the classic sense. Its more of a lurking in plain sight kind of thing.

Commonly known as active lurking. Posting with lack of content. I don't think Camn is guilty of that though. She is taking the time to defend herself. She does need to scumhunt though.

Food, good to see an analysis from you.

[camn]

Aww.. you said something nice about me!

If everyone thought this way, the scum would win every time.

I agree. I think if EVERYONE had exactly the same style, whatever it may be, then the scum would win every time. So I play my way.. you play yours. It takes all kinds to run a world this crazy...

Do you think Food will answer my questions?

[Kmd4390]

I am saying sure.. I could get all agro and build crap cases against people.. maybe get somebody lynched.. but what good is it if it is a mis-lynch?

If everyone thought this way, the scum would win every time.

I agree. I think if EVERYONE had exactly the same style, whatever it may be, then the scum would win every time. So I play my way.. you play yours. It takes all kinds to run a world this crazy...

How do you plan on deciding who to lynch?

LG, I used preview.

[SpyreX]

@Rishi

Yes, you are. You are pretty much tunnel-visioning on me, Kmd, and camn. You say the other things for show. You aren't pushing cases on charter and Stef very hard. It feels like, no matter what, you're going to nitpick the three of us and find something scummy in everything we do. It doesn't even matter what we post. And if you're really finding everyone scummy, as you claim, how about posting something on some of the other players? Or learn to separate what is actually scummy behavior and what is play style. Scumhunting is more than just spotting scummy behavior - anyone can do that. The key is distilling what is actually scummy and what's the eccentricities of the individual poster.

I'm pretty much tunnel visioning on 30% of the game? Or, am I tunnel visioning because I haven't said the obvious that currently, I feel Nameless, Porkens, Zazier and MLF are town and Charter and Stef are also suspect?

Or is it that I'm tunnel visioning on the two people I find most scummy (you're an afterthought, still - only brought up because KMD)

As for posting on the other players - I think I've covered at one point everyone I suspect at this point (and MLF).

As for the separation of playstyle vs scummy behavior . If your playstyle comes across as scummy - the onus is NOT on me to sit and go "ohh gee, are they really scum or is this just more pretend." If its scummy, kill it. End of story. Kill it early so that in later game the real players get to play the game. Breaking eggs, if you will.

I'm not suggesting this. I am suggesting you cast your net wider.

It is functionally impossible for me to cast my net wider. There are other issues I could bring up but I am not about to muddy the waters with minor issues (see Porkens and Zazier's absence from today) when I've got much larger issues (see KMD) to work with.

Problem is that you're just reacting. Not thinking.

I wish I had this kind of ego. I really do.

@KMD

Wrong. Right now, you think I am scum. You have no way to be sure of anyone's alignment unless you are scum yourself. I really don't like seeing definites in people's posting.

Is this gonna be one of those awesomesauce semantic arguments? Of course I can only think you're scum. However, my internal scales of scum vs town on you have fell over due to the weight on the scum side. Unless something changes, I have every reason to believe you are scum.

Interesting read?

Always. I hope you're not asking for meta. I dont do meta.

As for the Rishi issue - lets just drop it for now. We're not going to budge and time will tell.

Let me ask you this: what do you take from Camn's pressure vote on Stormer. She voted citing pressure, said she was willing to lynch FOR pressure, and allowed the lynch to happen with no more of a case than pressure. Opinions? What about pressure votes in general?

Pressure votes are useful in limited circumstance. I've made it clear I dont like Camn's play in regards to the voting. You know the answers to these questions.

You are the person who I consider most likely to be scum. I will pursue that until you are lynched or something drastic changes my mind. Porkens is my second choice. I have mentioned that once or twice. I had a gut feeling on Nameless early. That's still there. I think Rishi and charter are town although I'm not completely sold on Rishi. I'm not just defending myself with every post. I'm looking at everything I see come up.

OMG TUNNELLL VISION (Notice the sarcasm at the fact Rishi calls me out on this when we've got you right here - if I didn't think you were scum I wouldn't have a problem with focusing on your main case).

Ohh and back to Rishi: (I want this at the bottom where people will see it)

As for flipping on my opinion of melikefood, I told you that I did a meta-read on him. There may be other reasons why I might have had a change of position on melikefood. Think about it and let me know if you still want this question answered.

As you've implied other reasons, Yes I would like this question answered.

[Porkens]

Comming back to an earlier topic...

THIS is what I would call 'soft-claming.'

As for flipping on my opinion of melikefood, I told you that I did a meta-read on him. There may be other reasons why I might have had a change of position on melikefood. Think about it and let me know if you still want this question answered.


As you've implied other reasons, Yes I would like this question answered.

I read the threads at work, but I often don't have time to post. I feel like the majority of players are doing a fine job, right now, keeping interesting things on the page. I'm planning to take another big read later to review. But for right now I'll say that I'm perplexed about KmD and Camn at the moment. I origionally pegged them as minority buddies, but they haven't turned the volume down on eachother AT ALL.

This makes me think that either only one of them is minority or they are both majority.

If you're both majority, start focusing your ample time and energy on other players, please. Your connection is noted and not going to go away, and when one of you dies, we will have to concider again what that says about the other. But for the time being, I think you are just re-inforcing the anti-majority nature of your conversations.

I was suprised Melikefood posted, I'll read that again and see if I can get any deeper reactions

I'm pretty sure either charter or steff is scum at this point, but Rishi is climbing up the scum ladder again with his recent posts.

That's all for now. Good thoughts for more tonight.

[Nameless]

There is a lot of 'discussion' going on right now but an awful lot of it is just repeating points, nonarguments and pointless BS. At this point I'm not entirely convinced that its actually still helping the majority.

I'm going to request that those players not voting please start doing so, and those who are voting start considering who else they're willing to have lynched.

[SpyreX]

I concur. I think its obvious who I'd lynch at this point.

[melikefood]

I dont even know what to say. Its tears of happiness. I mean, I'd like more, but.

What do you want me to make a summary of?

Your recent posts.
I've got a bad case of TL;DR.

Also, who wrote Fail on my post?

[melikefood]

EBWOP

Do you think Food will answer my questions?

Which ones?

[camn]

I blocked you so we wouldn't get anymore surprises from you for the day.

What kind of surprise do you mean?
Did you then and do you now think Porkens is scum?
Do you think Porkens has a scum-aligned power role, or did you want to stop a NK?