Mini 672 - Tranquility (Game Over)

[SpyreX]

Sorry I've been kinda LA lately - I'll pick it up LG, I promise!

[Nameless]

@ Camn: Lynching somebody you think is probably innocent is still better play than a no lynch in the vast majority of cases.

- Questions -

Camn

: What did you learn from rereading Drake?

Charter

: Waiting to here those other inconsistencies.

Porkens

: Is the last sentence of #354 supposed to be sarcasm, or an actual (bad) explanation for your (bad) vote on Camn?

Kmd

: With as much depth and detail as possible, would you please give your current opinion as to the scumminess of Rishi.

Zazier

: Waiting on your opinion of Kmd's case against Camn.

melikefood

: What the heck did you mean by "planning of role actions" (#335)? Also, objectively speaking, would you consider yourself (up to this point) lurking D2?

Rishi

: Do you have ANYTHING to comment on that isn't from D1 or N1?

Spyrex

: Waiting on that case against Camn.

Stef

: #284. #334. #363. Notice your hypocrisy? We're still waiting on that long post, and ANY valid explanation for your vote on Camn.

[camn]

@ nameless

Nothing. He was perfectly unscummy. A great choice for a nightkill.
The only thing it tells me is that we have someone with some experience on the scumteam.

OR.. we have food, KMD and Charter, and they let Food decide on who to kill. But I doubt that pretty highly, and WIFOM destroys the logic of it.

BTW, thanks for answering for KMD. Now I totally know his opinion on things

c

ps.. anybody else running into "This Account Has Exceeded Its CPU Quota "?? I told you guys not to post so much!

[Kmd4390]

kdm..

If you were against a Stormer lynch.... why did you say you were willing to hammer him?

Would you have hammered if you still "didn't see the case" at dealine?

c

I'd have hammer over no-lynching.

EBWOP..

I see that you WOULD have hammered, despite being unsure.

So why? for information? Do you hate no-lynch days? Why would you hammer someone you thought was innocent?

c

On day 1, I'll always take a lynch over a no-lynch. I wasn't completely sure on stormer's alignment, I just didn't see the case yet. Even if he was town (which he was), we could gain information from his lynch. Even with the speed of the hammer, we have the fact that Porkens hammered, the fact that I was against it, and the fact that your pressure vote was still on. A no-lynch would have hurt us worse than a stormer lynch.

Kmd

: With as much depth and detail as possible, would you please give your current opinion as to the scumminess of Rishi.

I honestly haven't looked at Rishi as closely as I should. I'll get to that tomorrow because I'm going to bed soon.

BTW, thanks for answering for KMD. Now I totally know his opinion on things

Honestly hadn't read it when I typed my response.

[camn]

Fair enough, KMD.. I tend to agree.

c

[Porkens]

Porkens: Is the last sentence of #354 supposed to be sarcasm, or an actual (bad) explanation for your (bad) vote on Camn?

It was sarcasm. I know we disagree on this, but I still see Camn's "fox news" post as an attempt to flip-flop, AND, to a lesser degree, scum-flirting with KMD.

P.S. these are good questions, and I'd like to read what the rest of you have to say as a first order of business.

[camn]

If I was going to scum-flirt.. it would be with Rishi

[Stef]

@Nameless: Are you serious? That is hypocrisy? I do have school. I didn't say i can't post because of it, i just couldn't do so then. Did you bother to read the first one through? Did you bother to learn the difference between claiming that some1 doesn't have time for playing at all because of school and some1 saying he doesn't have time at that moment to post because of school? I hate personal statements when they are unfounded. Stick to the game. If i am inactive make a case against me for lurking ( or w/e ) or ask LG to pron me.

I'll post that "detailed long post" when time will let me, not when you tell me to.

[ZazieR]

@Nameless Blame my stupid computer. I wanted to post yesterday, but my internetconnection went away during the time I was writing. But I saved it in a word document so that I can post that post now. This was what I wrote:


First of all, I don't like Porkens attack against KMD. Sometimes a lynch of Player Y is obvious to some players, however some players don't see why it's obvious.
In this game Stormer was actually a scape goat. If i read correctly, many players would have prefered another player. Due to this I don't see the problem of his question about Stormer being the right lynch.
Actually, he was presenting another case which I discuss about at the end of this post. But like KMD already said, other players didn't see what he saw in his case. And other players were discussing their cases as well. Everybody was focusing on other players, therefor was Stormer lynched as (almost) nobody was paying attention to the other cases.

Stormer, if you still read this game, the next comment is aimed at you. A lynch is caused by two things: The attackers and the defender(s). In your case there was only one defender, you. When the defender can't convince that he's majority then there's a high possibility that he'll get lynched. In your case, you didn't even try to show us that you were majority. You may blame the attackers, but blame yourself as well.

Like I just said, I'll discuss the Camn-case of KMD now. These points were mentioned by KMD:

-3 (or 4 maybe) avatar attacks (not a big deal)
-quick to change your mind about the Rishi wagon.
-worried about being 3rd vote on charter.
-trying too hard not to look scummy.
-backpedaling with charter vote.
-either discrediting everything above this as joke OR staying in joke phase too long.
-buddying up.
-victim of the KMD gambit.
-too worried about perception
- twisting the purpose of the gambit
- only attacking gambit itself and not defending against the actual case

The avatar attacks were during the RVs. These are actually pretty normal in the RVS. But like you said this is minor. You can see these in many other games so it's not actually a scum tell.

Can you show me what her first thoughts were about Rishi and later on?

I don't know why she wanted to know this, but she said that she isn't as impulsive as she used to be. I think it has something to do with a previous game, but if I'm wrong she may correct me and tell me why she wanted to check. If I'm correct, I hope she will explain what happened in that game.

Again some quotes, where you think she is trying too hard to look majority.

I don't see the backpedaling. She was attacked due to it by some players and I think she tried to explain why she did everything.

I didn't see her saying that a comment of hers was actually a joke when players started attacking her as they took it serious. She has been a long time in the joke phase, that I've gotta admit. But that isn't scummy.

With who did she buddy-up?

I think the KMD gambit was a huge failure as she was the only one who voted Stef and I don't think her reason to vote him was found in your case. Your gambit can actually have been helpful IF there were more players who would have voted Stef.

I have no idea what perception mean (I'm not a native English speaker which is probably already shown in my sentences .) and I’m too lazy right now to look it up.

As already stated, I think the gambit was a failure. I would really like to see it as a working trap in a different game, but here it wasn't useful.

[Rishi]

Seven player posts in two days. I can make the deadline shorter, if that's what you want.

In all fairness to the players, posting tends to slow down a bit during the weekends.

Camn: What did you learn from rereading Drake?
Charter: Waiting to here those other inconsistencies.
Porkens: Is the last sentence of #354 supposed to be sarcasm, or an actual (bad) explanation for your (bad) vote on Camn?
Kmd: With as much depth and detail as possible, would you please give your current opinion as to the scumminess of Rishi.
Zazier: Waiting on your opinion of Kmd's case against Camn.
melikefood: What the heck did you mean by "planning of role actions" (#335)? Also, objectively speaking, would you consider yourself (up to this point) lurking D2?
Rishi: Do you have ANYTHING to comment on that isn't from D1 or N1?
Spyrex: Waiting on that case against Camn.
Stef: #284. #334. #363. Notice your hypocrisy? We're still waiting on that long post, and ANY valid explanation for your vote on Camn.

There's been a lot of discussion about D1 and N1 so far. But, I do have something to comment on right now. I do like how you're trying to get people to participate, but some of these questions makes it feel like you're trying to get other players to do work for you.

If I was going to scum-flirt.. it would be with Rishi Smile

Aww. *blushes*

[Kmd4390]

I still see Camn's "fox news" post as an attempt to flip-flop, AND, to a lesser degree, scum-flirting with KMD.

If I was going to scum-flirt.. it would be with Rishi

The avatar attacks were during the RVs. These are actually pretty normal in the RVS. But like you said this is minor. You can see these in many other games so it's not actually a scum tell.

I have no idea what perception mean (I'm not a native English speaker which is probably already shown in my sentences .) and I’m too lazy right now to look it up.

As already stated, I think the gambit was a failure. I would really like to see it as a working trap in a different game, but here it wasn't useful.

avatar attacks, I agree, aren't a big deal. Just something I noticed.

What she said about Rishi early on...

### Unvote, Vote Charter.

A) Monkeys are depressing.
b) Instant Rishi Bandwagon?

This shows NOT liking the Rishi wagon.

You didn't answer my questions camn.

Do you mean "What is wrong with a healthy bandwagon on Rishi early in day one? ". .

The answer is..

Nothing at all.

But if you think he is townie scum.. shouldn't you be asking HIM questions? Or is your method of scum-hunting to interrogate anyone who votes for you?

And if you MUST know.. I used the 4 minutes to check and make sure you only had one vote... because I don't really suspect you enough to be the 3rd vote. I'm not as impulsive as I used to be

The bolded part shows that there is no problem with the Rishi wagon. In this same post, there is the "3rd vote" thing. I don't see any reason for town to be afraid to put on a 3rd vote. Camn didn't seem to mind pressure voting stormer as the 4th vote.

Again some quotes, where you think she is trying too hard to look majority.

Some examples...

And if you MUST know.. I used the 4 minutes to check and make sure you only had one vote... because I don't really suspect you enough to be the 3rd vote. I'm not as impulsive as I used to be

Also.. I don't see anything inconsistent about voting someone for piling on a couple votes.... while taking care NOT to do it myself.

2. I am One Vote Sure. A Vote #2 at that. It really depends on Stefs's answers...
1. I don't vote to be "with" people. I vote to pressure other people.

There's 3. Let me know if you want more.

With who did she buddy-up?

Rishi. She said "I've always liked you Rishi" and recently "if I was going to scum-flirt, it would be with Rishi".

I think the KMD gambit was a huge failure as she was the only one who voted Stef and I don't think her reason to vote him was found in your case. Your gambit can actually have been helpful IF there were more players who would have voted Stef.

We'll see. As I've said, the Gambit isn't expected to convince everyone else. It's to help ME find scum. If Camn is scum, I think it's done that.

I have no idea what perception mean (I'm not a native English speaker which is probably already shown in my sentences .) and I’m too lazy right now to look it up.

Wow, didn't know that. It's actually not shown in your sentences. Perception is basically what everyone thinks of you. It basically shows more reasoning toward trying too hard to look town. It's like fear of everyone thinking that you are scum if that makes sense.

As already stated, I think the gambit was a failure. I would really like to see it as a working trap in a different game, but here it wasn't useful.

We don't know that until we know Camn's alignment.

[Nameless]

I honestly haven't looked at Rishi as closely as I should. I'll get to that tomorrow because I'm going to bed soon.

Yeah. This was pretty much what I expected Kmd to post. This is why: Any innocent player who had been seriously following a game would at least have a general opinion on the scuminess of each player, perhaps mentioning a few major points, perhaps not even that (a number of little things and gut feels can lead to suspicion just the same). I wouldn't expect a spontaneous megapost from anybody, but Kmd, doesn't even give a quick 'probably innocent, but I'm not sure' without delaying. Innocents do not ignore players just because they aren't in the limelight, and innocents are not so reluctant to even give a general answer to a simple question.

Porkens: Is the last sentence of #354 supposed to be sarcasm, or an actual (bad) explanation for your (bad) vote on Camn?

It was sarcasm. I know we disagree on this, but I still see Camn's "fox news" post as an attempt to flip-flop, AND, to a lesser degree, scum-flirting with KMD.

I've mentioned this in passing before, but I'll expand on it now: Your vote on Camn was BS to start off with, deliberately misinterpreting what Camn had already made clear (nevermind that pressure voting and the threat of a lynch is one of the most basic tactics used by innocents anway). You say Camn was trying to "worm out" of being willing to lynch (as a deadline lynch if nothing changed) by her making the point you (evidently) wanted to just lynch stormer rather than draw out pressure - This is unjustified, given Camn makes no mentions of her own intentions in that post. Camn certainly never says she didn't want stormer lynched, as you imply.
Your only explanation for voting Camn is one clearly false argument. Literally one post later you change your vote to Kmd which is prompted by, as far as I can tell, my asking you a hypothetical question. You don't even give an argument this time, just repeat what had already been said. From which point on you pretty much ignore Camn.
I can not think of any good reason you would make these votes when you did, and you have certainly made no effort to explain them.

@Nameless: Are you serious? That is hypocrisy? I do have school. I didn't say i can't post because of it, i just couldn't do so then. Did you bother to read the first one through? Did you bother to learn the difference between claiming that some1 doesn't have time for playing at all because of school and some1 saying he doesn't have time at that moment to post because of school? I hate personal statements when they are unfounded. Stick to the game. If i am inactive make a case against me for lurking ( or w/e ) or ask LG to pron me.

I'll post that "detailed long post" when time will let me, not when you tell me to.

This is a blatant overreaction. 'nuff said.
(Although I will remind everybody else that #368

really

does need explaining.)

There's been a lot of discussion about D1 and N1 so far. But, I do have something to comment on right now. I do like how you're trying to get people to participate, but some of these questions makes it feel like you're trying to get other players to do work for you.

Okay, that does technically answer the question, I'll give you that one for finding a loophole. But allow me to ask you a reworded version:
Do you have ANYTHING to comment on that isn't from D1 or N1

or these questions?

[Kmd4390]

Kmd

: With as much depth and detail as possible, would you please give your current opinion as to the scumminess of Rishi.

I honestly haven't looked at Rishi as closely as I should. I'll get to that tomorrow because I'm going to bed soon.

As promised, depth and detail for my opinion on Rishi's scuminess...
Let me take a look.

## Vote: Nameless

No confirmation. Obvscum. (Probably not confirming to have more time talking with the scumbuddies pre-game.)

Wait, was this his only post in the RVS?

I wish I was the informed majority. Insta-win

Hmm.. interesting statement...

So, what's interesting about it? I think it's more interesting that you said that than the statement itself, which was obviously meant as a joke. I'm not sure I like this, since you're casting suspicion on SpyreX without backing it up.

Starting discussion early. This is helpful.

I really think "scum" should mean the "informed" minority. In this case, it's townscum, but scum all the same. Although it's cute to use the mod's flavor in this case, it's distracting. I think people will, by instinct, say something is "scummy" behavior, which will make it difficult to read people. If we jump on them, they have an easy way to backpedal and say, "Hey, sorry, I got my terms mixed up again." We should all agree on the terminology. It's more important than you think if we want to put any faith in people's posts and suspicions.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I am remembering correctly, this is one of the first things people didn't like about Rishi. I think it was a very good idea to get this out of the way early. We want as little confusion as possible, and this helps.

Regarding the Yankees - I think it's interesting that certain people keep bringing it up. A lack of discussion often helps scum (in this case, townscum) and I think that sometimes it's helpful for scum to steer the discussion away from the main point. This doesn't set off major alarm bells, but it's something that might be useful. So I'll tuck it away for later. Also, rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for Microsoft. 'Nuff said.

I see where he is coming from here. The conversation had nothing to do with mafia. Again, stating small suspicions early.

a) Overly elaborating on a joke statement and reading into an ambiguous reply.

The reply was ambiguous, for sure. That's why I asked Stef to explain further. I know that SpyreX's original statement was a joke, but was Stef's response a joke? What do you think the purpose of Stef's statement was?

More starting discussion.

You had been pushing (before this post) yourself to hash out the terminology. There had already been discussion on this point. And I think it's a tad bit silly to wait until AFTER we have problems to work out a solution. I wasn't preparing to jump on anyone. I was merely speaking in hypothetical terms. For example, someone insists, "I think X is town." Then X is lynched and turns up Mafia (innocent in this game). We go back and say, "Hey, you said that X was town, but they're not." Then the person has an easy out: "Oh, sorry. I meant that I thought he was Mafia. I got my terms confused because of the flavor of this game." We should all make sure we are using the same terminology so it doesn't cause confusion later.

Again, the terminology discussion which I see more as helpful than distracting.

## Unvote: Nameless

We're out of the random stage. My random vote coincidentally was on you. Even though you're attacking me, you seem genuinely interested in scumhunting at this point, and leaving my vote on you would be nothing more than OMGUS.

This confused me a little. If you had nowhere better to place your vote, why take it off? Random vote on Nameless, small back and forth with Nameless, unvote Nameless. I guess if you really thought he was town, I can see it, but it looks a little weird.

Actually, stormer asked whether or not there was a cop, not "Who is the cop?" I think it could have been genuine newbie confusion. Though the flippant response doesn't really help him. Also, this isn't a newbie game, so we shouldn't necessarily forgive someone for a newbie response.

Well, I'm pretty sure he wanted to know who the cop was, but we agree that it was genuine newbie confusion.

Looking at it, I don't like the stormer wagon (though it seems to have dried up somewhat). He's an easy target. He's not likely to say anything useful in his defense. And nobody will see an attack on him as scummy on Day 2 because, well, everyone will be kind of happy to get rid of a bad player and blame the player himself rather than the scum that might have been driving the wagon.

Agreed. There wasn't much against stormer that couldn't be explained as newbie confusion. All I saw on him was the cop question and lack of defense. Question to anyone who voted stormer(because my previous question is irrelevant after the D1 hammer dropped): Did I miss anything other than that against stormer? Anyway, I agree with Rishi on this point.

##Vote: melikefood

This is understandable. Food's claim is RB, which is usually a scum role. He also claimed it out of nowhere. Didn't like the "don't lynch spy, lynch Rishi after I die" comment.

What does everyone think of Food now?

I would guess that you didn't mean to say that. You probably meant to say that after a lynch, you'd pop up Mafia, not town. The fact that you don't have the terminology straight shows how little you care for this game. I'm going to say this one more time. If you're really innocent Mafia, MAKE AN EFFORT. Don't resign yourself to being lynched.

This is just being picky with terminology. I can see the earlier conversation where you said you don't want it to cause confusion, but I think what you were trying to avoid earlier is posts like this one.

That's actually not what I meant. I know he claimed majority and I think everyone realizes that. What I meant was that the fact that he doesn't know the terminology in this game shows his complete apathy. My point is that he isn't even making an effort, which is anti-town behavior.

Explanation to the above. I see the point you were trying to prove, but don't agree with how you did it.

I agree with this. I don't think we'll "force Stormer to play better" as camn says.

I agree with Rishi again. Pressure was doing no good at this point. Anyone voting for Stormer should have wanted him lynched or unvoted.

I actually agree with camn in this case that being on the stormer wagon wasn't necessarily scummy. He was playing terribly. It's as I said - the problem with pressuring the newbie is that he's an easy target, won't defend himself well, and we get little information from the lynch. If Porkens didn't drop the hammer, someone else would have.

You're right that he was playing terribly, but can't you see scum taking the opportunity to jump on him for it? Yes, the hammer was probably coming eventually, but the timing of it was off. Not going to get into that again though.

As camn said, I'm curious about why the townscum didn't kill melikefood. The scum probably didn't think it was a big deal that he was blocking Porkens.

He could be a lynch target still. He could be scum. Either of the two would explain it.


So Nameless...
Here's what I found in response to your question.
The long version is above and the short version below.

Town (Majority) Points

-Starting discussion early
-Attempting to avoid confusion by discussing terminology
-Didn't want to "pressure" Stormer after it was clear that it wasn't going to do any good.

Scum (Minority) Points

-Possible Nameless connection. (connections don't always mean scum, and aren't always actually there)
-Voted Food, but later said he believed the claim. (I might not have quoted where he says he believes the claim, but I remember reading it.)
-Too picky with terminology when going after Food

Other Points that could probably go either way

-Only one RVS post
-Didn't see Stormer as scum
-"curious" about why Food wasn't NK'd.

Conclusion (finally):Of the three town points, two are helpfulness which scum can do to look townie, and one is use of common sense as a townie. The town points are things that scum can do. I find myself agreeing with a lot of what he said though. The scum points are weak too. The Nameless connection is only something to look at if either of them dies. The terminology thing was explained. The only thing I would like to know is this. Rishi: What changed your mind from Day 1 where you voted Food to Day 2 where you say you believe Food's claim?

Note to everyone else: I have a couple of questions in there directed at everyone, so be sure to read this post.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah. This was pretty much what I expected Kmd to post. This is why: Any innocent player who had been seriously following a game would at least have a general opinion on the scuminess of each player, perhaps mentioning a few major points, perhaps not even that (a number of little things and gut feels can lead to suspicion just the same). I wouldn't expect a spontaneous megapost from anybody, but Kmd, doesn't even give a quick 'probably innocent, but I'm not sure' without delaying. Innocents do not ignore players just because they aren't in the limelight, and innocents are not so reluctant to even give a general answer to a simple question.

I agreed with you that I should have been looking closer. When you read my last post, you will probably change your mind. I was NOT reluctant to answer. It was midnight when I had to get up on a Monday morning the next day. I wasn't going to sit here and megapost on a mafia game. I promised to answer you the next morning, and just did.

[Porkens]

Your vote on Camn was BS to start off with, deliberately misinterpreting what Camn had already made clear (nevermind that pressure voting and the threat of a lynch is one of the most basic tactics used by innocents anway).

You're assuming, incorrectly, that I am "deliberately misinterpreting" anything.

That's

bullshit. I never, ever, ever said I was against voting for pressure.

I can not think of any good reason you would make these votes when you did, and you have certainly made no effort to explain them.

How can you say this when you just went through, point by point, my explanations?

[Nameless]

I was NOT reluctant to answer. It was midnight when I had to get up on a Monday morning the next day. I wasn't going to sit here and megapost on a mafia game. I promised to answer you the next morning, and just did.

What's more important

isn't

that you put together a long post, but that you didn't even say "scummy" or "not scummy" without time to decide.

*Reads #412*

Oh wait, that's convenient, you still didn't really give your overall opinion at all just quoted a few different (minor) points some of which you admit don't particularly indicate one alignment or the other. That was the most wishywashy, noncommittal, pointless 'megapost' ever.

What does everyone think of Food now?

Mostly idiot with a chance of light genius in the afternoon. Probably innocent.

Question to anyone who voted stormer(because my previous question is irrelevant after the D1 hammer dropped): Did I miss anything other than that against stormer?

Role fishing, assumed knowledge conflicted with his meta, unexplained votes, unexplained statements, much lurking, "will stay neutral, sometimes it's better not to post". Not aiding the innocents whatsoever.
The literal to your question is: No, I don't believe you're stupid enough to have missed these things.

Your vote on Camn was BS to start off with, deliberately misinterpreting what Camn had already made clear (nevermind that pressure voting and the threat of a lynch is one of the most basic tactics used by innocents anway).

You're assuming, incorrectly, that I am "deliberately misinterpreting" anything.

That's

bullshit. I never, ever, ever said I was against voting for pressure.

I meant you were deliberately misinterpreting what stance Camn held, not the stance itself.

I can not think of any good reason you would make these votes when you did, and you have certainly made no effort to explain them.

How can you say this when you just went through, point by point, my explanations?

I went through what you

said

, not any valid explanations.

[Porkens]

I meant you were deliberately misinterpreting what stance Camn held, not the stance itself.

Yeah, sorry, I should have had an "Also," or something, in there. I'm not deliberately misinterpreting her stance. I understand your interpretation of it, though, I just don't think you're necessarily right.

I went through what you said, not any valid explanations.

I accept the fact that you don't think my explanations are valid. I'm not trying to withhold any explanations, but I also accept the fact that the ones I've given may, in fact, be bad.

This morning, and moreso now, I suspect that Camn and KmD are scumbuddies who are playfighting. Especially since the whole, two-way, "Don't tie my alignment to his/her's."

I haven't been saying much about Camn since then because we were waiting on two other people to talk about her (spyrex and KmD).

[Kmd4390]

Oh wait, that's convenient, you still didn't really give your overall opinion at all just quoted a few different (minor) points some of which you admit don't particularly indicate one alignment or the other. That was the most wishywashy, noncommittal, pointless 'megapost' ever.

I said I found myself agreeing with him most of the time, but I wanted to know about the whole Food thing. Why is that noncommittal?

Role fishing, assumed knowledge conflicted with his meta, unexplained votes, unexplained statements, much lurking, "will stay neutral, sometimes it's better not to post". Not aiding the innocents whatsoever.
The literal to your question is: No, I don't believe you're stupid enough to have missed these things.

This still looks more like a newbie than scum. Nameless, knowing now that Stormer was town, can you see scum jumping on the stormer wagon for an easy lynch?

I haven't been saying much about Camn since then because we were waiting on two other people to talk about her (spyrex and KmD).

What are you waiting on me for? I must have missed it.

[charter]

Ack, didn't realize it'd been ages since I posted here. If I forgot to respond to one of your posts/questions, let me know, I just missed it.

Here's some more incosistancies, no idea if someone has already pointed them out or not (have to catch up on the last few pages). This may not be all, but it's what I get off the top of my head (quite a few).

4. Porkens softclaims claims a power role.

No, Porkens goes rolefishing towards Food.

6. Charter gleefly declares he has one suspect and votes him.

Quite true.

15. Charter says that he's going to be lazy & tells one of the openly known PR's to not share information because its baiting.

This is probably more of a matter of opinion, but I'm not being lazy. I've already explained why I'm not giving every thought I have about everyone. The opinions I've formed are all there, if someone wonders where I stand or what I think on something, ask, and I will tell.

2. KMD goes after Camn about saying #1 but being on the wagon.

It's not so much Camn being on the wagon that bothers me. It's the fact that she was on it AS A PRESSURE VOTE AND WAS OK WITH LYNCHING AND THEN COMES OUT AND GOES AFTER PORKENS FOR HAMMERING. Seriously, if you say you are ok with a lynch, be ok with it after it happens. The reasoning (pressure vote) was bad enough, but this just makes it worse.

This is the best thing brought up today.

Second... Why is melikefood alive? Food.. If you ARE a roleblocker.. and the mafia DOES have a choice in who executes kills at night.... telling them who you are going to block defeats the whole purpose. Don't do it any more. Don't even drop hints.

More role fishing.

@Nameless, can you please state your reasons for voting kmd in 365.

@Stef, can you please state your reasons for voting camn in 366.

As camn said, I'm curious about why the townscum didn't kill melikefood. The scum probably didn't think it was a big deal that he was blocking Porkens.

Just ask for everyone to speculate for you so you know what they will think tonight as well. No need to shroud it by attempting to look useful.

Porkens in 378, 380. People get lynched over less than that.

Nameless in 387, doesn't answer Porken's questions (ridiculous though they were). Scummy because I do that when I'm scum.

@Porkens in 394, that post is a load of crap. You've never seen an obvious mislynch and been powerless to stop it? I see them all the time.

What does everyone think of Food now?

Still not a good person to lynch today.

Nameless is grasping at thin air to put together a case against kmd in 415.

Nameless is still scum, and my vote will remain on him.

[Kmd4390]

6. Charter gleefly declares he has one suspect and votes him.

Quite true.

But there is obviously more than one scum. Who would be most likely to be the others?

[Porkens]

Porkens in 378, 380. People get lynched over less than that.

I was seeing how far they wanted to go down their

self-appointed

WIFOM trail.

@Porkens in 394, that post is a load of crap. You've never seen an obvious mislynch and been powerless to stop it? I see them all the time.

Give me a break. He didn't try to stop it. He was setting himself up to look right when Stormer flipped mafioso.



As for your multiple declarations of role-fishing, melikefood already hard-claimed. How the hell can you rolefish someone who has told you what their role is? What further information, other than what I asked for, do you think I was trying to get??

[charter]

6. Charter gleefly declares he has one suspect and votes him.

Quite true.

But there is obviously more than one scum. Who would be most likely to be the others?

Ehh, I haven't seen much that connects scum together, but independantly Nameless is number one, I'm still saying Porkens is number two, and three is basically a toss up between rishi or camn.

@Porkens in 394, that post is a load of crap. You've never seen an obvious mislynch and been powerless to stop it? I see them all the time.

Give me a break. He didn't try to stop it. He was setting himself up to look right when Stormer flipped mafioso.

I don't see this as scummy. He's not waving it around saying "I was right yesterday, listen to me today!"

As for your multiple declarations of role-fishing, melikefood already hard-claimed. How the hell can you rolefish someone who has told you what their role is? What further information, other than what I asked for, do you think I was trying to get??

Ha, there is plenty more information to get. I can think of several roles that have been in games I've been in that a claim like food's on day one could actually be (and he would be telling the truth as well).

[camn]

Alright. You guys are so busy fighting over me... regarding old shiv, I thought I would give you some more ammo.

my thoughts:

Re the Porkens vs. KMD issue. . . I think this is a innocent vs. innocent battle. As I have said, KMD wouldn't be so fixated on a mislynch if he were scum. And I doubt Porkens would have hammered someone who was OBVOIUSLY going down as scum. so there.

Regarding Stef. You did totally overreact to nameless' post. Whats the deal with that? I agree that your stance is NOT hypocritical.. and nameless'es accusation was a little unjustified.. but your reaction was a little too heated, imo. You call it a "personal attack", but I don't see it. How was it "personal"?

@ Food. Will you start playing better for me? Post more, engage in conversation.. stuff like that? k?

Nameless you rock, keep it up. Spyrex and Rishi, too.

Zazie.. I love how you are defending me... but I am starting to get a scum vibe off of you. I got a pretty scummy vibe of Malyss, too. You have had some decent analysis.. but not very offensive. Plus your defense of me, to borrow a page from KMD, could be seen as you "buddying up" to me. This makes me very sad, because I like you and I don't want you to be scum...

Regarding Charter. YOu are so incredibly off base, I can hardly handle it. I am leaning toward you being scum. Mostly because you somehow aren't as abrasive as you usually are! Plus your analysis seems somehow cock-eyed. I think you are mischaracterizing Porkens. He wasn't Rolefishing. Also, if nameless is scum, he s the most helpful scum I have ever seen. You also agree with KMD saying "if you say you are ok with a lynch, be ok with it after it happens"... but HE was willing to hammer.. and went after Porkens afterward, as well! I figure you would attack him on the basis of inconsistency, if anything.....but maybe I'm biased because you are talking about me

anyway.................. ..... (that's for you, ellipses haters)

c

[ZazieR]

As already stated, I think the gambit was a failure. I would really like to see it as a working trap in a different game, but here it wasn't useful.

We don't know that until we know Camn's alignment.

It's a bet then. I think she's majority. If I'm right, we'll join another game together for you to show me that your gambit works . If I'm wrong ... (here comes your idea if I'm wrong).

Back to the last posts made.

I'll look into those quotes later of your case against camn, KMD.
I'm not sure if camn is buddying up. If I remember correctly, she said she always liked rishi as he said that he agreed with her or he supported one of her posts.
I'd also like Rishi if he supported my posts .
As for the flirting, I have no idea why she said it. I think she did it for fun.
I also look later if camn is too worried about perception.

I don't like Nameless first paragraph of the following post. I also post sometimes that I'll post it tomorrow. I don't think that it's fair to attack someone or start an attack based upon this.
But I agree with his comment on Porkens. Porkens only voted camn for one reason and later never mentions her again. I saw that Porkens made a comment about it why this is. I'm just pointing it out right now.
I just looked at 368. I agree. Stef explain.

Food should post more. I want to hear his thoughts about the players as he has almost done nothing. This can help me to get a better read on him.

I'll wait until Rishi has posted before I give my comments about the case against him.

I'm interested in what Porkens has to say more about his suspicion of camn and KMD being minority buddies.

[Kmd4390]

Give me a break. He didn't try to stop it. He was setting himself up to look right when Stormer flipped mafioso.

I asked a question to everyone voting Stormer. You hammered before they had a chance to answer. I don't think either of us is going to change our opinion about this one. If people convinced me that Stormer was a good lynch, I'd be ok with it. They never had time to do so though.

And I doubt Porkens would have hammered someone who was OBVOIUSLY going down as scum. so there.

what happened to...

I know! But that was too fast. I wanted as much as possible out of it, you know?

I think we can agree that the hammer was too early to gain anything from. Don't you think scum would want to cut off information and would think that at L-1, most players agreed on Stormer, so it would be a safe bet to hammer and say "well, I thought he was scum"?

With who did she buddy-up?

Nameless you rock, keep it up. Spyrex and Rishi, too.

Just thought I'd throw those two quotes together. No reason.

if nameless is scum, he s the most helpful scum I have ever seen.

Scum try to appear to be helpful so that they can redirect the town's attention and make themselves look good at the same time. Don't make the mistake of thinking that "helpful" players are always town.

but HE was willing to hammer

Not at the time Porkens did. There are two things that would have led me to hammer.
1.Deadline came up and we had no other option.
2.Someone convinced me that Stormer was a good lynch.

When Porkens hammered, he took away any possibility for either of those to happen, so no, I wasn't willing to hammer.

anyway.................. ..... (that's for you, ellipses haters)

...................................................................................................