Mini 672 - Tranquility (Game Over)

[SpyreX]

I actually said nothing about Porkens at the start of day two.

There's some other incosistancies in your post as well.

Sorry, I said Charter, meant Camn. No idea what I made that mistake.

What are the others?

It's not so much Camn being on the wagon that bothers me. It's the fact that she was on it AS A PRESSURE VOTE AND WAS OK WITH LYNCHING AND THEN COMES OUT AND GOES AFTER PORKENS FOR HAMMERING. Seriously, if you say you are ok with a lynch, be ok with it after it happens. The reasoning (pressure vote) was bad enough, but this just makes it worse.

I'll give you this. I'm still saying you've been on Camn for 95% of the game.

I wanted to see answers to this. I could see that Stormer was probably about to be lynched and I wanted to make sure the people voting actually wanted Stormer lynched. People voting for pressure should have unvoted around this time. Porkens hammering kind of ruined any chance of anything though.

Again, you may have wanted to see answers but just saying this is a bad lynch over and over without providing real means.

Hey, if everyone was right about him, I'd be happy with that. I really didn't agree with the lynch though, and I saw no reason to act like I was ok with it.

Well, yea, if he was scum this would have went different. Again, I'm saying the timing and the manner of it definitely suggest you knew ahead of time his alignment and were trying to use that to get brownie points.

-3 (or 4 maybe) avatar attacks (not a big deal)
-quick to change your mind about the Rishi wagon.
-worried about being 3rd vote on charter.
-trying too hard not to look scummy.
-backpedaling with charter vote.
-either discrediting everything above this as joke OR staying in joke phase too long.
-buddying up.
-victim of the KMD gambit.
-too worried about perception
- twisting the purpose of the gambit
- only attacking gambit itself and not defending against the actual case

We talked about this before. About half of this is nothing. Some of this "The KMD Gambit" nonsense. All in all its a weak case and, personally, I think you know its a weak case designed to not get camn lynched but to put enough suspicion so you can distance yourself in case your buddy gets wagoned.

[Nameless]

Also KMD asked a question at the end of day 1. I think it was ignored due to a sudden hammer:

Those voting stormer: Do you really think he is our best lynch option today?

I'm actually interested in the answers although Stormer was lynched.

I would have preferred Charter if others had considered it an option. Up until the point where Kmd actually made that post I would have otherwise said yes, but it was that particular post that (too late) made me rethink what Kmd was doing ... at which point I'd say no, Kmd would have been. Still, Stormer wasn't helping, if it weren't for the NK I might even say yes now.

Is that clear?

It's not so much Camn being on the wagon that bothers me. It's the fact that she was on it AS A PRESSURE VOTE AND WAS OK WITH LYNCHING AND THEN COMES OUT AND GOES AFTER PORKENS FOR HAMMERING. Seriously, if you say you are ok with a lynch, be ok with it after it happens. The reasoning (pressure vote) was bad enough, but this just makes it worse.

Honestly, I wouldn't call this Caps Lock Worthy. There's a difference between being willing to lynch someone if they don't respond well to pressure and actually hammering them when there's still time for the pressure to have its effect (on the rest of the players, as well). The reasoning was not "bad", but the way Porkens hammered (swiftly out of lurking and with no explanation) was.

[melikefood]

@Spyrex:Do you mean Town as in Good Mafia or Town as in Bad town?

[Kmd4390]

I'll give you this. I'm still saying you've been on Camn for 95% of the game.

That's because I've thought she was scum for 95% of the game. Do you expect me to back off because no one agrees? I think she's scum, I'm staying "on Camn". Oh, and take note of the fact that you agree on that specific point.

Again, you may have wanted to see answers but just saying this is a bad lynch over and over without providing real means.

If people had time to answer my question before the hammer, maybe I could have provided something.

We talked about this before. About half of this is nothing. Some of this "The KMD Gambit" nonsense. All in all its a weak case and, personally, I think you know its a weak case designed to not get camn lynched but to put enough suspicion

so you can distance yourself in case your buddy gets wagoned.

Wait wait wait....
It's a weak case (I don't think it is), but you think I am distancing and scum

with

Camn?
So you are suspicious of Camn?


What makes you suspicious of her and why is my case weak?
I'd like this one answered^^^

[Porkens]

@Porkens. Although you explained I don't agree with your hammer. You just ended day 1 as Stormer wasn't contributing anymore. However, there was still some discussion and discussion is good for the majority.

I can see your point of view.

Also, I don't like your vote against Camn. You vote her as she was according to you 'trying to worm out'. But look at her post above your post. She doesn't say that she didn't want to lynch him. But she said that she wanted to get more out of it, something that wasn't possible due to your vote, and she wanted him only as lynch for a deadline lynch, something which never came due to your vote.

I was specifically refering to the "OMG CONTEXT/FOX NEWS" post which I still do percieve as an effort to get off the bandwagon after-the-fact.

But, we've had some feedback from that vote now, and that's what I really wanted.

I'm also interested in your last question. Why do you want to know if MeLikeFood blocked you?

Last, in your second second post you say that you wouldn't mind to lynch Rishi. But after that post you never mentioned him again. Why is this and what do you think of him now?

I wanted melikefood to go on record with who he targeted so that later in the game there would be no "yeah, I SAID I was going to but..."

With Rishi, he's quiet, and he hasn't provoked any strong feelings from me since early in the game. At the time, I gave some creedence to the theory that he was intentionally kicking up dust with the town/mafia terminology nonsense but now I'm leaning good-guy towards him.

4. Porkens softclaims claims a power role.

Didn't happen, see above.

@ Porkens: If you were in a 3 man endgame with Charter and Kmd, who would you vote?

If I was in a three-man end game with them as of right now, I expect the game would be over. Seriously though, to echo what SpyreX already say; KMD's post-hammer was just so much pathos. With that being freshest in mind, I'd have to vote KmD.

In fact, shoot, I'll do it now;

## unvote: Camn

##vote KmD

(see, I just voted for Camn to see who would jump on it, it's a pretty sweet gambit I picked up somewhere.)

[Kmd4390]

There's a difference between being willing to lynch someone if they don't respond well to pressure and actually hammering them when there's still time for the pressure to have its effect (on the rest of the players, as well). The reasoning was not "bad", but the way Porkens hammered (swiftly out of lurking and with no explanation) was.

She said she was willing to LYNCH for PRESSURE.

But your only reasoning for the vote was "pressure".
Are you really willing to lynch for pressure?

Ane YES!
If you aren't, then your pressure isn't worth anything.

She never says "if he doesn't respond well". It's just a capped "yes".
I don't even understand what were we going to gain by pressuring stormer, and to pressure him to the point of a lynch, I just don't see where that's good play right there.

[Kmd4390]

KMD's post-hammer was just so much pathos. With that being freshest in mind, I'd have to vote KmD.

In fact, shoot, I'll do it now;

## unvote: Camn

##vote KmD

(see, I just voted for Camn to see who would jump on it, it's a pretty sweet gambit I picked up somewhere.)

Wait, you are voting me because I called out your hammer?
It was much earlier than it should have been. Am I supposed to ignore that?

And how am I jumping on Camn after you? I was suspicious of her Day 1. I don't think you can argue against that.

[SpyreX]

Wait wait wait....
It's a weak case (I don't think it is), but you think I am distancing and scum with Camn?
So you are suspicious of Camn?

What makes you suspicious of her and why is my case weak?
I'd like this one answered^^^

Yes. I'm not sure the emphasis where it is. It's pretty simple:

1.) Build a case that is weak enough to not push a wagon but enough to let you sit on it on a scum partner.
2.) Now, if the case doesn't get weight - you have someone to push on to appear to be contributing and you do develop a lot of white noise.
3.) However, if the case DOES get weight - you've setup a situation where, when Camn is scum you appear a little more town for being suspicious the whole time.

Again, I've been a little suspicious of camn - moreso because of her interaction with you. If I need to go build a case on it I will, but I find your play to be scummier and you to be a better lynch. If you are scum, then I will be persuaded (and have the necessary information) to build the case on Camn.

I wanted melikefood to go on record with who he targeted so that later in the game there would be no "yeah, I SAID I was going to but..."

With Rishi, he's quiet, and he hasn't provoked any strong feelings from me since early in the game. At the time, I gave some creedence to the theory that he was intentionally kicking up dust with the town/mafia terminology nonsense but now I'm leaning good-guy towards him.

Ohh, OHH. Fair enough. I really thought you were claiming roleblocked.

@Spyrex:Do you mean Town as in Good Mafia or Town as in Bad town?

Assume I mean Town and Scum to mean just what they normally are. Althoguh Gurgi is truly a brother in arms after a previous game, I'm not gonna twist terminology at all.

[Kmd4390]

Again, I've been a little suspicious of camn - moreso because of her interaction with you. If I need to go build a case on it I will, but I find your play to be scummier and you to be a better lynch. If you are scum, then I will be persuaded (and have the necessary information) to build the case on Camn.

Please don't make the mistake of determining her alignment with mine. When you find out I am town, don't assume Camn is town.

[Lord Gurgi]

The Thirteenth Votecount - Ten alive, six to lynch

Kmd4390 (2) - SpyreX, Porkens

camn (1) - Kmd4390
Nameless (1) - charter

Not Voting (6) - camn, ZazieR, melikefood, Nameless, Rishi, Stef

Sorry for the late votecount, I'm borrowing a computer because my hard drive is corrupted, I'm doing what I can.

Also: Still experimenting with my votecounts, I'm sure they'll be consistent eventaully.

[SpyreX]

Ohh no, it doesn't go both ways.

[Porkens]

Wait, you are voting me because I called out your hammer?

It was much earlier than it should have been. Am I supposed to ignore that?[/b]

No, it's fair to jump on me for that. But all the distancing and, I'll say it again,

pathos

in your post-hammer posts were compelling, but probably not the way in which you wanted them to be.

And how am I jumping on Camn after you? I was suspicious of her Day 1. I don't think you can argue against that.

Juuust poking fun at you with that bit.

[camn]

God there is so much going on here!

First off... Voting for Stormer was not scummy. Voting Stormer for pressure was not scummy. Being willing to lynch Stormer was not scummy. Just as a reminder.....

At deadline, if we are looking at stormer vs. no lynch, I will switch to stormer.

Hammering Stormer so early was, IMO, a little hasty.. but it is a non-issue at this point.

Second... Why is melikefood alive? Food.. If you ARE a roleblocker.. and the mafia DOES have a choice in who executes kills at night.... telling them who you are going to block defeats the whole purpose. Don't do it any more. Don't even drop hints.

Third...

Please don't make the mistake of determining her alignment with mine.

I was totally about to say the same thing!
Look.... I am innocent.. and I suspect KMD is too, just because of the bulldog grip he has on my sweet ass. That would be too scummy for scum to actually do.. But if he flips scum, I won't stand in the way of the pointed stick.

Fourth..
shoot.. I gotta go.


l8tr sk8trs.

[Stef]

Don't have patience right now to post another long post ( just did so in gif }
so i'll do so later on today or early tomorrow. Till then i can only comment this:

That would be too scummy for scum to actually do..

That argument sucks. I've been accused of using it but you actually are using it. Interesting how after you guys fought so much now camn suddenly defends kmd. The need to put your "sweet ass" in this conversation is to ...?

[camn]

What is so "interesting" Stef?

I have never accused Kmd of being scum.
And I am not defending him.
If you look back, you will see there is no change in my stance toward him. No "Suddenly" about it.

Keep trying, though.. you are bound to stumble on to something you can hang an innocent with.

[Nameless]

That's because I've thought she was scum for 95% of the game. Do you expect me to back off because no one agrees? I think she's scum, I'm staying "on Camn".

You could always, oh I don't know, be actively trying to find the other scum.

She said she was willing to LYNCH for PRESSURE.

Oh my GOD Kmd, you've just moved from 'scummy' to 'annoying' by bringing up that point again. Go read #305, #310, #330 and #332 again, then move on. Even if you are somehow right, WE GET IT.

@ SpyreX: I'd like to see your case against Camn as an individual, aside from Kmd's relation to her.

Although that said, #362 does not inspire much confidence. ("Why is melikefood alive?" and "That would be too scummy for scum to actually do." in particular.)

## Vote: Kmd4390

Let's see where this goes.

[Stef]

What is interesting is the soft-claim and accusing me of "trying to hang innocent". I actually wouldn't have voted for you only based on that. Your blatant OMGUS does make me vote you.

##Vote: Camn

I'll take this case further later on.

[Nameless]

What is interesting is the soft-claim

Your blatant OMGUS does make me vote you.

Um, what? Did I miss something here?

[Stef]

Keep trying, though.. you are bound to stumble on to something you can hang an innocent with.

[Rishi]

Hey folks. Just noticed that this game opened. Sorry about that.

I actually agree with camn in this case that being on the stormer wagon wasn't necessarily scummy. He was playing terribly. It's as I said - the problem with pressuring the newbie is that he's an easy target, won't defend himself well, and we get little information from the lynch. If Porkens didn't drop the hammer, someone else would have.

As camn said, I'm curious about why the townscum didn't kill melikefood. The scum probably didn't think it was a big deal that he was blocking Porkens.

I've played with both camn and Kmd before (though not in the same game). I'll try to look at those games again to see if I can spot differences in playstyles, but that's not happening today. Maybe this weekend.

[Kmd4390]

Ohh no, it doesn't go both ways.

ok, good.

No, it's fair to jump on me for that. But all the distancing and, I'll say it again,

pathos

in your post-hammer posts were compelling, but probably not the way in which you wanted them to be.

So it's fair to jump on you about it, but not to do it in a certain way? Either way, the point stands. The hammer was much earlier than it needed to be.

Juuust poking fun at you with that bit.

I know, but it was so far off that I had to say something.

First off... Voting for Stormer was not scummy. Voting Stormer for pressure was not scummy. Being willing to lynch Stormer was not scummy.

no, but voting stormer for pressure and allowing a lynch based on it was scummy.

Hammering Stormer so early was, IMO, a little hasty.. but it is a non-issue at this point.

Why is it a non-issue?

Look.... I am innocent.. and I suspect KMD is too, just because of the bulldog grip he has on my sweet ass. That would be too scummy for scum to actually do.. But if he flips scum, I won't stand in the way of the pointed stick.

This made me laugh. bulldog grip, sweet ass, pointed stick. Funny as hell comparisons you have going there.

You could always, oh I don't know, be actively trying to find the other scum.

You're right! Great idea! I'm going to ask Porkens about that hammer now! Oh wait....

WE GET IT.

Doesn't look like it...

I've played with both camn and Kmd before (though not in the same game). I'll try to look at those games again to see if I can spot differences in playstyles, but that's not happening today. Maybe this weekend.

You will. The game we played had a jester, and I was more cautious because of it.

[Nameless]

Keep trying, though.. you are bound to stumble on to something you can hang an innocent with.

That is neither a softclaim nor a vote / serious attack.

As camn said, I'm curious about why the townscum didn't kill melikefood. The scum probably didn't think it was a big deal that he was blocking Porkens.

Excuse me for stating the obvious, but: One can only assume the scum considered drake more of a threat and less likely to be lynched than melikefood. (I mean, there was a bandwagon on melikefood for a while D1 and he's said some pretty stupid things. Drake was one of the few people I at least assumed to be town, was only badly attacked by Charter, and said some pretty smart things. Only an idiot would have NKed melikfood. Why am I needing to state this?)

You're right! Great idea! I'm going to ask Porkens about that hammer now! Oh wait.... that (single, very obvious) question was really just to remind everyone I was against the hammer, and I haven't followed up on it except to repeat myself.

Yeah.

[Kmd4390]

You're right! Great idea! I'm going to ask Porkens about that hammer now! Oh wait.... that (single, very obvious) question was really just to remind everyone I was against the hammer, and I haven't followed up on it except to repeat myself.

Yeah.

Umm...
I've heard of scum twisting words but...
Changing quotes to make it say what you want it to say?
Just....wow.

Actually, I asked about it because I didn't like the timing of it. Porkens said I was right to jump on him but not in the way I did. I responded to that, and am waiting on him right now. How am I not following up?

[Nameless]

Changing quotes to make it say what you want it to say?
Just....wow.

I know, it's a good thing you caught me too, because I was being so

subtle

about the way I said "almost wrote" and just added my response to the end and all.

Seemed premature.

It was much earlier than it should have been.

Either way, the point stands. The hammer was much earlier than it needed to be.

I didn't like the timing of it.

^ Aside from defending yourself from his vote, that's pretty much all you've said about Porkens. Repeating one point (which Porkens explained in #331) isn't actively scumhunting.

[Kmd4390]

So it's fair to jump on you about it, but not to do it in a certain way? Either way, the point stands. The hammer was much earlier than it needed to be.

You took the first part out of this quote.