Mafia 86 - mafia.gif - Game Over!

[ShadowGirl]

Original Roll String: 1d24

1 24-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

[ShadowGirl]

Vote: Stef

The die must be right.

[ShadowGirl]

Shadowgirl, I would advise against using any avatar Gimbo or an alt of his used.

just sayin.

Sorry, it was completely unintentional.

And uh, sorry for the seizures. Apparently animated avatars aren't allowed, anyway.

[ShadowGirl]

vote: sekinj

Whatever happened to usernames that were sensible and comprehendable, and not just a random mashup of letters? I have players in my Newbie game named things like "vvvnuasd" and "f$Hjf". Preposterous.

Every username has a story behind it.

[ShadowGirl]

Okay, maybe not. But the statement just made it seem like everyone was special. <3

[ShadowGirl]

Vote Stef

, because ShadowGirl's avatar hypnotised me into voting you. If she snaps her finger it could change my vote .

-snaps fingers twice-

[ShadowGirl]

Unvote, vote Seraphim

who has yet to make a post here.

Grace us with your presence!

[ShadowGirl]

CKD, I think you're taking Stef's vote too seriously. :/

[ShadowGirl]

I don't think random voting is bad. I think random voting is a necessary and vital part of Day One. I used to have this big long thing I'd post in Newbie games about why random voting was good. But I think five pages may be excessive. It's like watching twelve-year-olds all doped up on Red Bull and Smarties.

Just sayin'. I mean, it may just be that I'm an old fart.

What, aren't doped up twelve year olds amusing to watch?

[ShadowGirl]

Not keen on insulting people's intelligence.

But the comment on your avatar isn't personal... it's just part of the random voting stage.

[ShadowGirl]

Avatar should have no bearing on serious voting.

I don't think anything should be excused even if he is a new player. We can take into account that he is one, but that doesn't mean we should overlook scumtells.

@Stef: But I do think you should get a bit thicker skin, because you will encounter people who will not be quite so courteous. People will insult you, and you just have to deal with it.

[ShadowGirl]

Unvote.

Since my vote on Seraphim was placed during the random vote stage and we are past that now.

He can be a newbie. He can also be newbie scum.

QFT. If he's town and playing scummy, then we should call him on it. We learn from our mistakes, and if we just let it slide he's never going to learn.

@Skitzer: Ha ha, yes indeed. Though, I suppose if he's not used to that sort of thing that it isn't that strange for him to be a tad hostile.

Anyway, I'm taking Tajo's 'vanilla claim' and Seraphim not wanting to participate in random voting as null tells, as is Stef's joking statement of wanting to be lynched or a very weak scumtell.

Still, I find Tajo defending him rather odd and slightly scummy.

[ShadowGirl]

I'm interested in why you view Tajo's claim as a null tell.

It's random stage, the claim will bring unecessary attention, and it's WIFOM.

[ShadowGirl]

Weekend, slow posting.

Mod, I'm not voting anyone at the moment.

[ShadowGirl]

And if someone should be lynched it must be him and not me because what I did (as some people call "defending" HAS ZERO MOTIVATION as scum.

I was liking your post until this. You seem to be trying to deflect attention back to Stef.

Easy on the caps, Taj. And scum wouldn't do that is WIFOM. and once again you say:

If you think scum defending scumpartner, then the person you should voting is him, not me.

As if you're completely fine with Stef getting lynched. And really, I'm more suspicious of you then I am of him.

populartajo, posting in caps really does not help. I would like to see a claim ..

A claim? Isn't it a bit early for a claim? :/ I also go by L-2 being an acceptable time for a claim.

[ShadowGirl]

Uh, regardless of role you should fight hard. :/

[ShadowGirl]

This is L-1.

What about the off chance that he is a doctor? Shouldn't we just let the mafia take care of him? Hn, don't really know what the policy is on PRs in large games.

[ShadowGirl]

Awesome night. <3 Wow, this thread moves quick.

Vote: Black Adder

I've been getting minor scum vibes ever since this snippet:

So, vote: populartajo. Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town.

Hn, I think the quick hammer is a null tell at this point.

[ShadowGirl]

Quick post before I get off for the night.
@Sekinj: Do you have a better one, then?

[ShadowGirl]

@Sekinj: Do you have a better one, then?

That's not a really legit argument here. Then again, I don't think sekinj's counter argument is stellar either.

It wasn't a 'let's lynch BA because there's no better target', but 'if you don't like the current wagon, then make a new one'.

[ShadowGirl]

@Sekinj: Do you have a better one, then?

That's not a really legit argument here. Then again, I don't think sekinj's counter argument is stellar either.

It wasn't a 'let's lynch BA because there's no better target', but 'if you don't like the current wagon, then make a new one'.

That really sounds like the same thing in different words.

They're supposed to be different - I didn't mean it in such an absolute way.

[ShadowGirl]

It wasn't a 'let's lynch BA because there's no better target', but 'if you don't like the current wagon, then make a new one'.

Right, except its possible for someone to realize wagon A is bad without knowing where to go.

Mm, true.

[ShadowGirl]

Okay, I think that we're getting back into an argument about the definition of "cleared". I said on day one that I said that "cleared", to me, meant "not scummy." And, again, Empking, I was in no way trying to prove his innocence. I explained my thought process to CKD in post 340. Also, no one knew that Stef was scum on the first day, so you can't hold that against me.

His scum buddies would know. :/

Busy thanksgiving, I'll do a small reread today - I realize my posts have been a bit low content, and I apologize.

[ShadowGirl]

Busy until the weekend. RL things that need to be done. Have reread the first five pages.

[ShadowGirl]

Emp, insulting people is not the way to go about it. :/
Please, answer the question. Did you believe tajo's claim? All you're saying is 'I made a mistake.' over and over. Are you saying you weren't following the game and only popped in time to see the mod's post?

[ShadowGirl]

Mm, something does seem a bit odd by the way he's going about it, which is why I haven't voted him. Still, we're only about halfway to a lynch, I believe. Five or six votes are on him? Not that I'm saying that halfway to a lynch isn't a big deal.

[ShadowGirl]

I looked through Dead Rikamaru's previously modded and I've seen no Jester.

Unvote, vote: Empking

[ShadowGirl]

EBWOP: I looked through Dead Rikamaru's previously modded games and I've seen no Jester.

[ShadowGirl]

It's

L-2

now, by the way.

[ShadowGirl]

Another good night for town. Though, there seems to be a lot of factions. x_x

[ShadowGirl]

@Post 232: Because I didn't believe tajo to be scum - erratic townie, yes, which is why I wasn't voting him.

[ShadowGirl]

I believe I've already admitted I wasn't really participating that much in the first day.

Anyway, I didn't really have any strong suspicions against anyone at that point - being a newbie, I wasn't sure if Stef's play was just not quite streamlined and just being hostile.

[ShadowGirl]

SG for really hanging back and having no opinion of her own. Active lurkering without saying anything.

My votes showed my opinion. I didn't believe Emp or Tajo were scum. I didn't vote them. I voted BA, who I did believe was scum. My thoughts were already said by those who posted before me.

-blink- I don't remember seeing massive post very much.

[ShadowGirl]

Post 4-5 - ShadowGirl: I don't like diceroll random votes. Too easy to not claim responsibility for actions.

But it's only a random vote? I could very well just use any other reason to vote someone - but there's no bearing upon it.

Post 98 - ShadowGirl: Defending Stef before he responds, eh? Interesting.

How am I defending him? It was clearly a non serious vote.

Post 114 - ShadowGirl: This has nothing to do with anything. Why make this post?

Because I can. It was still random stage voting/discussion.

Has, I just hope you realize two of the people who you think to be scummy have been lynched already.

[ShadowGirl]

vote Seraphim

Yes, I know, being replaced, blah blah blah, but I went back and re-read the night scene and in it, it indicates that Tar tracked the person who killed sekinj. That coupled with the post I quoted (Tar clearly thought Seraphim was scum and ready to lynch him today) makes him a decent candidate to have been tracked.

But isn't flavour not supposed to reveal information the players don't know?

[ShadowGirl]

Post 153 - ShadowGirl: Still don't like yet another defense of someone else here

... But I'm not defending anyone.

Post 194 - ShadowGirl: Out of RV for a while, why wait this long to take your vote off? I don't like calling of tajo's claim and stef's statement null-tells

Miswording by me - It was random stage when he made the claim. And I believe they were null tells. That's my own opinion. :/

Post 285 - ShadowGirl: This is a terrible post. Even if he is doc(which I seriously doubt at this point), he lied about it in a really scummy way. Lynch him.

PRs play terribly too. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[ShadowGirl]

Post 327 - ShadowGirl: I don't like this post. Starts with "awesome night" and then quickly votes a fast-moving wagon.

I was suspicious of him since day one - not much else I can say on this matter.

Post 475 - ShadowGirl: I don't like this either. Seems too nice.

I'm asking a question, I don't see why I can't do it in a nice tone.

Post 477 - ShadowGirl: You still haven't taken a stance on him though. Gah.

I thought it was odd how he was acting - I thought that he might be a jester, or

Post 485 - ShadowGirl: *sigh* I really hate ShadowGirl at this point. Her posts seem to be inane or defenses of other suspicious players.

It's a perfectly valid statement - he was playing akin to that of a jester.

Post 492 - ShadowGirl: So?

I don't want an accidental hammer, seeing as how fast the votes were piling on.

[ShadowGirl]

Post 552 - ShadowGirl: Again, saying it was a good night. Don't like this.

I would agree with this if I hadn't said it the day before as well.

Post 565 - ShadowGirl: You didn't have any strong suspicions, but did you have suspicions?

BlakAdder, as per me voting him early in the day.

ShadowGirl: Likes to stay out of the spotlight. I don't understand why she was so unwilling to believe tajo and emp were scum. Also, there were a few instances of defending other players that I didn't like.

Both were playing so erraticly and in such a way that would naturally gain them attention that I think it would have been odd for them to be scum. I voted Emp in the end because he was being very, very anti-town. And I don't see how I was defending anyone. :/

[ShadowGirl]

What exactly are the points against me that I haven't already talked about?

[ShadowGirl]

That would be nice - since I can't really defend against gut, can I?

I voted for Emp, who was playing terribly anti-town.

Short post - off for now.

[ShadowGirl]

But she could be just messing with us.

[ShadowGirl]

NOTE: SG has not done a dice vote in any other game on MS. I find that very interesting.

This is a winner.

Vote ShadowGirl

Why does this seem akin to the smiley meta that was mentioned earlier in the game? Anyway, this is not a reason to vote someone on day three.

Has, I'll post a reply to your post when I get home from school.

[ShadowGirl]

NOTE: SG has not done a dice vote in any other game on MS. I find that very interesting.

This is a winner.

Vote ShadowGirl

Why does this seem akin to the smiley meta that was mentioned earlier in the game? Anyway, this is not a reason to vote someone on day three.

Has, I'll post a reply to your post when I get home from school.

Note how the smiley meta was correct.

Perhaps, but that should not be the deciding factor in a vote.

[ShadowGirl]

Why does this seem akin to the smiley meta that was mentioned earlier in the game? Anyway, this is not a reason to vote someone on day three.

Why isn't it?

It's a weak meta: as well, I've said also that it shouldn't be the deciding reason to vote.

Okay, I'm formulating post in response to has.

[ShadowGirl]

I don't think the smiley was the reason that definitively made him scum.
I like the dice command. That's why I used it.

[ShadowGirl]

It would have been nice if you'd added the post numbers, but anyway...

Post 0-1: A truly random vote. These always feel a bit off to me for some reason. Something about how you're trying to completely absolve yourself of any responsibility of your vote by making sure people know it's random.

Is it proven that using the dice for a random vote = scum?
As I've said, I like the dice command and that's why I used it.

Posts 2-5: All of these are completely inane comments that do absolutely nothing at all.

I'm not usually terribly deep in random voting stage, sorry.

Post 6: Lurker prodding. Not a terrible thing to do, but the mod can take care of this.

It was lurker prodding/random vote. What's wrong with that?

Post 7: I find this to be a defense of Stef. Before Stef even answers for himself about his vote, SG jumps in saying that it's probably a joke.

It's terribly obvious it's a joke. :/ I was merely pointing it out.

Post 8: What is this supposed to say, exactly?

It's... randomness.

Post 9: Here ShadowGirl is defending someone else's comment by saying it's just part of the "random vote stage".

Because... it is. Do you think he was genuinely insulting his avatar?

Post 10: This post seems quite noncommittal to me. She says that we shouldn't excuse stuff because he is new, but also says that we can take into account that he's new. How exactly would we be taking into account that he's new but not excuse anything?

I didn't mean in the bearing of scumtells being overlooked, but being hostile about the insults.

Post 11: How is this unvote constructive at all? It does nothing to move the game forward. Don't you have any real suspicions? Saying that tajo's claim is a null-tell is probably one of the scummiest things I've seen. I don't understand how anyone could think that. Same with Stef's saying he wanted to be lynched and claiming scum, even in a "joking manner". That's something I consider to be defending those two. Claiming that scummy actions they make aren't scummy. That's pretty much the exact definition of defending.

Why should I keep my vote there? No, at the time I didn't have any solid suspicions - as I've said that I believed Stef's and Tajo's action to be null tells. Is it scummy even though he flipped town, or just the calling of that in general a null tell scummy? They weren't intended to be defenses - I was stating my opinion.

Post 12: This is also blatant defending of tajo. The fact that you're saying it's not scummy because it's the "random stage" is even worse. Random stage can be the best time to catch scum doing something scummy because they don't think people are paying attention.

I will agree that part was defense. Still, you have to take the post in context: why would scum make such a claim and get attention? Which, according to you, is what they want to do.

Post 13: An extremely inane comment when I'm sure there was plenty of stuff to comment on.

In context, again - I didn't have time to post anything more.

Post 16: Why point out that it's L-1 here? Also, there's no way he was a doctor. He would've have claimed vanilla so early as an actual doc. The mafia won't take care of him, are you nuts? He was way too easy of a lynch. I feel like SG was trying to derail the wagon on tajo by saying that he might actually be a doctor. Another defense of a scummy player who doesn't deserve it.

Why not? I don't want someone to accidently hammer. Uh, I didn't say the mafia won't take care him. Why would I bother trying to derail the wagon if I'm scum and know him to be town? You said it yourself, he's too easy on a lynch.

Post 17: I hate when people point out it's an awesome night. The only reason to do that is to look town by saying it was a good night because town already knows that.

So sue me then. This is my first large game and I find the mass of deaths exciting (as well, I've never played with a cult).

Post 22: What a useless post. Why even say that?

Because I can?

Post 25: WhyWhy haven't you voted for a scummy person? Because he could be a Jester? Terrible reason, especially because the only thing it does is distract the town.

If we have a cult, we could have a jester? But I did vote him...

Post 28: Why does L-2 make so much of a difference? If he's scummy, he should be lynched.

We shouldn't rush lynches, and he should be able to say his piece.

Post 29: I still hate this. Pointing out that it was a good night for the town is not useful because we know it was a good night for the town.

Same answer as before. Do you find me saying it more less scummy if I'd only said it only once?

Post 30: What about his play made you think he wasn't scum?

He was trying way too hard to be lynched.

Post 32: Wait a second, you didn't believe Emp was scum? But you voted for him. What gives? Why point out that massive isn't posting much? Is it just to get attention off of you? It seems like it.

I notice I made a mistake in saying I hadn't voted Emp, bah. (Reading) Near the end when he was rampaging with insults something felt off and I would have unvoted him if I had been there to witness it.

Post 33: I love how SG points out that people I think are scummy have been lynched when I made it pretty obvious that I was reading through the game for the first time.

And this is a scumtell how? Anyway, I just wanted to point it out. :/
Attention wasn't really on me, so no. Why not point out he isn't posting?

[ShadowGirl]

Because I haven't? As of late all the games but two that I'm in I'm replacing - not really a chance to.

[ShadowGirl]

well, he is posting enough to not get replaced...which is crap

I guess it's a good thing I don't play to please other members. I like to exercise the right to vote, so I pick someone to vote for each night. Beyond that, I'm not going to go around making accusations from nothing all day because everyone else is taking care of that for me. If you want to put me on the spot - here I am. As for the game until now - that's just how I play, get used to it.

So, do you have any accusations at the moment or anything? :/

[ShadowGirl]

Arg. Deadline is in a week, apparently.

[ShadowGirl]

Arg. Deadline is in a week, apparently.

ok. If you're going to say this and yet not add anything to move the game forward, I'm 90% not going to move my vote from you.

I have had hardly any time to post in any of my games. As well, seeing as how no one had posted in about twenty hours and I'm not quite sure how many are aware of how close we are to deadline. Thanks.

As well, would this not also apply to Rush? And, any comment on my 730 about my actions?

@armlx: Same question as has: comment on my post (730) about my actions?

@Sierra:
I've got my eye on Rush, but he just seems so blatantly... anti-town, I suppose, that I don't think scum would willingly admit they've been completely useless during the day period for the whole game.

I have a few question I have first but I place solidy my suspicions/place a vote.

I'm a little suspicious of massive who thinks he can just appear on day three and that being in a large game for the time in a long time exempts you from not even showing up in the first two days.

Mod: Prods on Jebus, BlakAdder, Ku_F, Cybele, skitzer, spring?

[ShadowGirl]

Eh, not really that much time to - this game seems to move pretty fast and I catch up to it when I can. (Fast in the past two days, anyway.) It doesn't seem to be holding my interest as much, either. Still, I would hate to replace out - I don't think another replacement is what this game needs, and I have slightly more time on my hands at this moment.

[ShadowGirl]

(Not that I'm saying that makes my low posting excusable. It isn't.)

[ShadowGirl]

Well, at least you read it - it didn't seem you did.

Some of it is a bit... fluffy? but it's the truth. I still would like some comment on the parts that pertain to more concrete matters.

[ShadowGirl]

I've actually been around for the first two days and have been doing my best to keep up. You haven't even tried.

[ShadowGirl]

Two of my games are in lylo, which require my attention more than this one.

@Massive: Did you post in the first days?

[ShadowGirl]

-sighs- Apples and oranges indeed.

Mod: Can we have some prods and possibly an extension?

[ShadowGirl]

Well, he was only on the Emp wagon, but his vote did indeed say nothing... but a vote. :/

[ShadowGirl]

@Sierra: Has Seraphim ever done that before? I'd be more inclined to believe that possibility if he has. As well, he could just have thought that the load was too great and decided to drop a game. :/

Remember this when I get lynched as townie.

But it's a valid accusation. You've hardly participated at all. Do you agree with this statement?

[ShadowGirl]

As well, Seraphim has just replaced out one of his other games (NG 631).

I'd like to hear more from Rush before possibly putting a vote on him.

[ShadowGirl]

Happy birthday has.

I support an extension, as well.

[ShadowGirl]

Vote: Rush

There's one thing to try and be active, contributing to town and another to outright refuse to. You are doing the latter. :/

[ShadowGirl]

Unless he starts playing (which I would very pleased with).

[ShadowGirl]

Why shouldn't I? There was only a handful of us participating, while a large number of people hadn't spoken today at all.

[ShadowGirl]

Oh simulpost.

What about it encourages more talking? Well, we have more time, for one seeing otherwise it would be night by now. As to why no one is talking, I guess it's possibly of combination of lack of time, and perhaps interest.

As well, I for one was very much hoping to get more out of Rush, which doesn't seem to be the case.

[ShadowGirl]

Shadow, your thoughts on these players?

I don't really remember much about any of those players - I do remember Ku_F in the random stage, but other then that...

[ShadowGirl]

I find something a little off with skitzer coming right after his name is mentioned, but I am much more dissapointed with Rush.

[ShadowGirl]

I dont usually direct a vig....but BA is a prime target for one.

Why not Rush?

I'm not sure what the protocol is on people who refuse to post. :/

[ShadowGirl]

It seems more people are interested in skitzer at the moment.

[ShadowGirl]

@Massive: What makes you think we have four mafia groups? What about the possibility of a SK? So far we've only the appearance of two mafia groups.

[ShadowGirl]

Oh seriously, obviously I meant "all 4 killing groups." If you really think I'm intimating that there are 4 mafia groups, you are using blatant opportunism and have quickly risen in my "likely to also be scum" list.

What do you think the killing groups are composed of? (Two being mafia groups, of course.)

[ShadowGirl]

Vote: BlakAdder

He is now at L-1.

I prefer leaving EA for now as well - seeing as he could very well be vig, and this way we figure out for sure who is scum : one of them has to be lying.

[ShadowGirl]

And for clarification, one of them being either BA or Jebus that are lying. Sorry that wasn't clear.

I keep thinking there's far less people left in the game then there is. :/

[ShadowGirl]

I'm not actually thinking EA is the vig. I think more likely SK.

But he hasn't been counterclaimed. Though, I'm not sure the real vig would/should want to claim, anyway.

[ShadowGirl]

Well, then we'd probably lose our vig for sure seeing as the doctor is gone... But at least the mafia/SK won't be taking down another pro-town player.

[ShadowGirl]

Oh, I didn't take it off yet.

Unvote.

For a second I thought Niv voting himself was a mistake, but apparently it isn't.

Scenario one and three is optimal, but if scenario two happens then... well, at least we'll hopefully have nabbed one scum through the vig kill.

[ShadowGirl]

Hm... I guess just with the flavour I just assumed they were different... uh, 'groups'.

@Llama: Why is Niv scum for sure as opposed to say, spring?

[ShadowGirl]

Scratch that. I had it in mind that someone else was Seph's replacement.

[ShadowGirl]

I'm not too keen on voting EA at this point seeing as there still is a possibility is a vig (and no one else has stepped forward).

I'd very much like to see spring come back or... at least have her replaced. :/

Niv is now at L-1 (three votes and his self vote), and I implore that no one hammer him until he's posted/claimed.

[ShadowGirl]

Prod: Niv

I think that it would be in our best interests to wait for him to post. :/

[ShadowGirl]

A prod/replacement on Niv?

As I've said before, I'd still rather EA live through the night and let things go from there. I'm not so sure if I'd want to out the vig know (if there is another one) when then can just take care of EA during the night. (Unless they're about to be lynched, they should claim, obviously...)

[ShadowGirl]

These seem contradictory. Do you want to call Tajo on it, or treat it as a null tell?

The response to armlx is about Stef, while my comment about Tajo is about Tajo.

[ShadowGirl]

@The dice thing: I just like the command ever since I was playing mish mash games with it. [Such as Roll a dice or Yahtzee.]

[ShadowGirl]

Slow posting 'til Christmas.

[ShadowGirl]

That's one freaking long exchange. Okay, let me start reading...

Unless anyone wants to give a me a summary. xD;

[ShadowGirl]

Llama is at L-1.

Still reading over the huge chunk of text in the past few pages.

I'd also like to note I'm going on vacation from the 4th to 10th.

[ShadowGirl]

Don't compare me to SSK, thanks.

Ooops. Guess four to lynch is in my other game.

Har har har. Very funny.

[ShadowGirl]

Well, then I'm glad you won't miss me.

[ShadowGirl]

I'm here. I'm not sure where to stand on most of the stuff going on right now. A few things that I'm sure of: I still don't like Jebus's lying. Neither Fonz nor Llama looks like scum to me right now. I agree that we need to move on past the EA issue.

Does that include disregarding all the comments where Llama is trying to push for a vig claim? (An insane amount of times, by the way.)

[ShadowGirl]

Fine. I finished.

[ShadowGirl]

BA: You need to answer my question.

The information sunk into my mind.

What, do you want a list of who I think is scum/not scum?

[ShadowGirl]

I'm rereading the thread, thank you very much. I'm up to page ten. I have notes to prove it if you think I'm lying. You're welcome. If you think I'm doing such a terrible job, then I'll replace out if you want so you don't have to endlessly wait for me.

@Massive: If you think I'm scum then vote me, that's all there is to it.

[ShadowGirl]

@BA: Reread of the last three pages, not the whole game. Remember how I kept saying the last few pages were such big walls of text? That's what I'd been reading and indicated I had finished.

@Fonz: 'Whiny'? I would consider that someone being pissed, but to each to their own opinion.

Was doing packing, so back to my reread.

[ShadowGirl]

Well, since you asked nicely.

If talk down to me like that once more, then I promise you I'll make it my goal not to post.

...

Alright, I'm better now. Suffice to say, I've been having a crummy holiday as it is and the reason I have to go away for five days is because my aunt has cancer...

As well, I lost a game recently because SSK and his infuriating lurking. I guess we slowly become what we despise most.

Onto the reread :

---

LlamaFluff (Cybele) : Possibly greek, with BA as a scum buddy?
On page three, both of them voted skitzer 'for unvoting and not revoting during random stage', but when they were both pressured they backed off and deemed it was random. Coupled with the fact he throws out the newbie card when further pressured.

Page four:

Well, if we're going to just hop a wagon for a claim, why not run Jebus to L:-3? ooba seems like an arbitrary choice.

Rolefishing - Jebus mentioned nothining but starting a wagon for a claim.

Page Fifteen:

@Erratus; okay. How am I supposed to answer that anyways? It seems to me to be more of a snide comment than a real inquisition. Okay. It wasn't funny. Is that what you'd like me to say?

@ Rush: Seriously, are you reading this thread, because that was a well-dropped hammer. Tajo was clearly lying about being a doc, and the fact that he ended up town is only a result of his poor playing than CKD not taking waiting longer to hammer.

I like the points being made by armlx and CKD regarding BlakAdder.He did come off as Stef's scumbuddy when I looked over D1. However, I can hardly even understand his arguements over the last page. It's a bit confusing.

vote: BlkAdder

Possible distancing? (I realize, circumstantial.)

I wasn't keeping track of who might be in which mafia. I'm not picky at the moment.

If there was a guilty on one of each family wouldnt you rather get rid of the Jap mafia first in an attempt to cut down ammount of NKs? Same question to BA and the other massive voters. This wagon massive is really weak, BA is very likely the Jap member, Seph very likely a Greek.

Another dosage of about the possible (perhaps even non existant japanese mafia) I can see this (town searching for the last japanese mafia) as very much a benifit to the greek mafia.

Jebus isnt lying, if he is there is a mafia doctor. Hypothetically, Greek should win if we lynch non-vig town today, all kills go through, and no greeks die. Even if Jebus is Greek trying to do something like this, he gets viged at least if EA is town, and likely killed by anti-town player even if EA is scum.

Translation - BA is confirmed anti-town since he didnt just claim vig. EA is nearly certain anti-town since the vig probably killed Rush.

Lets kill EA since it might get rid of the last Jap

I find it interesting that you're so sure that Jebus is being truthful, though you do throw out some unlikely scenario that could lead him to be.

Also, what makes you think Sierra or I are the SK?

My notes basically just have you two as options at this point. EA doesnt fit and SL doesnt fit for that part of the puzzle. I have strong greek or a town read on everyone else (except BA who I just am clueless on).

What happened to BA being the last japanese?

---

BlakAdder : Possible greek, possible japanese.

Page 5:

"Quoted for truth". I t basically means "I agree, but don't have anything to really say."

You seem doing that a lot. (Disclaimer :Yeah, I could possibly be being hypocritical? I don't know.)

Page 9 :

Sorry I've been gone for so long. Anyway, everything I wanted to say has been pretty much covered at this point. I want to vote Tajo and Stef, but I'm going to wait for a vote count, so I don't accidentally hammer prematurely. So, in the mean time:

HOS: populartajo and Stef

.

See your above quote. You did again.

@Stef: I already mentioned, everything that I think has already been said. But, overall, populartajo's vote on Sierra and bad defense of you are the reason he's scummy. Personally, you would not be that suspicious yourself if he had not tried to rush to your defense.
So,

vote: populartajo

. Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town.

Interesting that he goes for tajo instead of stef, under the assumption that if tajo flips scum that stef is cleared - which could certainly work out in the japanese's favour.

You misunderstand the question, I think. How would he be at all cleared?

Because the only reason I am suspicious of him is because of the potential connection to tajo. If tajo flips town, then that is gone.

Once again, if tajo flips town (which scum would know) the suspicion of Stef flutters away.

Page 15: Sekinj's post 353 : Not wanting to get a scumbuddy lynched.

blakadder - random votes Stef(!!scum partner random vote?), finds P-T and Stef suspicious, the infamous "Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town. " which I don't find to be much of a read unless BlakAdder is newbie scum. (is he?) a lot of stuff about how he wasn't defending Stef. scummyrelation level: midhigh

Distancing, me thinks.

This settles it.

vote: Empking

, for the insults, the backtracking, and the scum slip.

Wagon hop, with a sentence just enough to reason the vote.

So anyway, ultimately, it does seem like BlakAdder is a good choice, however, it almost seems too obvious? Cybele's one move is very suspicious to me, but since he didn't do anything else, I can't say for sure. Ku_F's response is kind of weird, it seems almost like fake-indignant. Not sure if the double random vote is less or more suspicious than a single random vote. I also find Ku_F's posting to be Mafia-ish aside from interactions with Stef, no examples, just a general read.

Another post with possible distancing of all the players she metioned - now reluctant to follow through with a BA vote.

As for voting, I'm not ready yet. xD Does no one think this BlakAdder thing is too obvious? After all, even though Stefdeath was a surprise, they would have had to know that Stef would still be under suspicion today and possibly be lynched? Which would have the same effect on BlakAdder. Does that make sense?

Once again reluctant to follow through with a BA vote.

I don't know, I see some validity in that vote.

Flavour should not reveal anything about the setup. How is the vote valid?

Yes, I am. I no longer support Massive's vote on Seraphim.

Now that no one else supporting the potential mislynch, you make off. You seem to be rather wishy washy.

Still here, not much has changed, though I do support a gorckat lynch.

vote: gorckat

Oppurtunistic vote, with no reasoning attatched.

At this point, I would be okay with a Rush lynch too.

unvote, vote: Rush

Read above statement about his voting.

The more I think about it, the less I like Skitzer.

unvote, vote: skitzer

... Same thing as above above.

Oh seriously, obviously I meant "all 4 killing groups." If you really think I'm intimating that there are 4 mafia groups, you are using blatant opportunism and have quickly risen in my "likely to also be scum" list.

Come on. Now it's almost like you're trying to get votes.

vote: massive

Oppurtunistic! Oppurtunistic!

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I'm a vanilla townie. If the game isn't over tomorrow, promise me you'll lynch Jebus, and possibly LlamaFluff as well when Jebus flips scum. The way Llama's been acting towards Jebus's claim makes me think that they are scum partners

I could very likely see this as way that if we lynch you (and you flip scum), that we overlook Llama.

Fair enough.

unvote

Just applying pressure for the sake of experimentation.

You're all sure that he's scum and should be lynched, you deem he slipped - but then after a small explanation, you take your vote off quickly. Wishy washy, once again.

I'm willing to hammer Niv if he does not claim/post soon.

Eager to get to night, hm?

I'm here. I'm not sure where to stand on most of the stuff going on right now. A few things that I'm sure of: I still don't like Jebus's lying. Neither Fonz nor Llama looks like scum to me right now. I agree that we need to move on past the EA issue.

Your opinion on Llama seems to change every couple posts.

---

springlullaby (Haschel Cedricson) :

Woo, promising reread and post later today before this thread explodes.

I'm not ignoring this game, but i won't have time to post until Sunday or Tuesday.

First post after the random stage :
Page Eight:

Woo, promising reread and post later today before this thread explodes.

Day two:

Acknowledging visit from Bobo. Will post tomorrow.

Sorry 'bout disappearing.

---

Fonz: ((Niv (gorckat (Seraphim)) :

First off, I plan on actually reading the topic and posting this time around. Then I'll make a post that is actually relevant. But, first, to answer the question...

I do believe there are at two Mafia families. The first clearly killed a member of the opposing family, so there's now a Mafia family with one less member. The second kill may be the Cult Leader who tried to recruit a Mafia member or the second Mafia family's kill.

Another unrelated question: Did the Cult Leader recruit anyone, and if so, is it important now or is the cult now disbanded?

Pretty much the only glimpse we see of him in day two up until the very end - just curious that Sierra doesn't call him out for lurking once more.

Well, awesome night for the town. Going to go back and reread the dead players. Also, I would believe the Japanese Mafia is gone, but playstyle should not be altered either way. We'll see whether or not they're still alive tonight.

And I'm not the only person who said it was an good night for town, btw.

---

Jahudo (Ku_F) : More probably greek. Maybe japanese?
Page six :

It is? Didn't know that. [sarcasm]I'll never use a smiley ever again[/sarcasm]

CKD, I thought that your reason for a vote against Cybele is weak. [entry post]Besides, we women support each other this game[/entry post]. That's my reason to vote you.

Rather touchy about it all, and not keen on a Cybele lynch. (Circumstantial until LF turns up Greek.)

Not every player with a strange avatar and a goon status is a newbie. You shouldn't underestimate them. But I don't like post 140. You're giving him an excuse to keep posting like that.

At the very least not the remaining Jap.

It is? Didn't know that. [sarcasm]I'll never use a smiley ever again[/sarcasm]

[...]

Trying to undermine the smiley meta.

Ku_F - random votes stef(!!) is also random voted by stef (!!), does not address stef otherwise. level:midhigh

Distancing?

---

farside22 (DynamoXI) :
Didn't post at in the first two days.

Curiousity makes me ask this hascow. Do you think BA is scum based on his interaction with the Jap mafia or do you think he is just scummy in general?

Curiousity makes me ask this hascow. Do you think BA is scum based on his interaction with the Jap mafia or do you think he is just scummy in general?

his interactions were interesting, but I don't think that they make him jap mafia or townie. I'm thinking greek mafia is possible, because his actions are scummy without knowing others' alignments.

Small chance of being greek - seeing as has found BA to be greek, perhaps he was NKed because of it? Weak link.

---

Jebus :

I'm pretty sure there's one more Yakuza out there because of sekinj's "bah" post on page 22, just after the night scene. Remember, that was still day three.

Basically, it said "Go Yakuza, win win win!". This tells me

Oh, there's still a chance for Yakuza to win, so most likely there's still more of them

.
You're right though, it's possible he's trying to screw with us, but let's assume the worst. Pascal's Wager, sort of, if we assume (bet) that there's still one more out there, we can only gain, and not have anything to lose, except time, which we've got plenty to spare for finding this info. Besides, we can always just find out after the next night scene :/

And I didn't FoS curiouskarmadog for his hammer because I found populartajo to be superscummy, so aka, it didn't put much of a blip on my scum-o-meter.

Possible greek? Weak link, once again. Give the town a shot of paranoia and try look for a possible last japanese.

---

massive : I'm sorry to say, but accusing you me of active lurking is very hypocritical. So stop it.

I ... wait, how is it that we haven't won yet? Geezus.

This game is ringing up more dead scum than Elliot Ness.

Here.

It's my first "big game" in a very long time and ... well, here, I'll admit it: You all are too random for me. The younger generation has become a string of injokes and pure luck and not real mafia hunting skills. I can't even tell you why we lynched the people we lynched. I know that the mafias have been doing all the town's work, though.

skitzer

: With five of the eight deaths in the game being bad guys, do you still worry about winning the game?

And here.

This post is very condescending. You comment that no one is displaying “real” mafia hunting skills. Yet you have done EXACT JACK, to scum hunt. It is very obvious why Emp was lynched yesterday. It has nothing to do with in jokes (which I have not seen in this game passed the random vote stage). You also state you “know” that the mafia have been doing all the town’s work. How would you know that? With 4 kills it is a good assumption that we have a SK and a vig too. How do you know which are mafia’s kill and which are not?
Why are you not scum hunting? Show this generation how grandpa does it, but start by answering my questions..

I think that arguing that the mafia is NOT doing the town's work is rather ridiculous in the face of the record of the town (2 lynches, 2 townies) versus the night kill record (6 kills, 5 bad guys). If you add in the likelihood that the vig didn't shoot night one, then you have exactly ONE death you can attribute to a pro-town player.

I've done "exact Jack" to hunt scum because I've been offsite for about eighteen of the 33 days this game has been going on. I guess you guys DO need Grandpa to show you how it's done.

Here as well.

vote Seraphim

Yes, I know, being replaced, blah blah blah, but I went back and re-read the night scene and in it, it indicates that Tar tracked the person who killed sekinj. That coupled with the post I quoted (Tar clearly thought Seraphim was scum and ready to lynch him today) makes him a decent candidate to have been tracked.

And scumhunting via flavour is practically a cry for a mislynch.

If we believe that there is the possibility of a fourth Japanese Mafia member, we should clearly go back to BA, since he was easily the scummiest person over the first three days (that's still alive).

Going after the easiest target without saying why you think he is the scummiest person.

Of course I'm willing to vote for anyone. I've already expressed that I have suspicions about at least three people, what they are, and this thread needs more lynching and less standing around looking at people.

Previous post for reference to the contradiction.

Please point out where I've indicated I'm willing to vote for anyone. I'm pretty sure I've only voted for people I've found suspicious, and have given reasons in every instance. Hrm.

First of all, a contradiction of your last post about you not willing to vote for anyone. And second - reasons, but not very good ones. (See vote for Seph based on flavour, of all things.)

I think it's because I look "lynchable" ... as LlamaFluff pointed out, lynching a townie and multiple non-Greek deaths ends in a Greek victory, and as you watch people stream onto and then off of me, you get the very distinct feeling that, since I had suspicion on me yesterday (and was in the duel), that I am an easy target. That's my impression.

I think that EA's kills, while turning out to be beneficial to the town, were not made with the best town intentions. I've previously voted for Seraphim and would happily vote for Niv, so I guess we're just waiting.

You get a few votes, and this is all you say about them - and about the game. Active lurking, but you don't even give much of a defense.

If somehow ShadowGirl does NOT get lynched for her play in this game, we will be able to point back to it as an example of "how to lurk in Mafia games when you're Mafia without getting caught." Because man is she writing the book on it.

This statement would work just as well if you replaced your name with mine.

---

Sierra : Possible japanese or greek.
Page 6:

Pressure on Stef is good. I'll wait to see how he responds to the accusations above before I decide whether or not to put my vote there.

Advocating the Stef wagon but not voting just yet - not wanting to lynch one of his buddies on day one, perhaps?

Page 8 :

To answer some questions directed at me:

By not participating in the random voting phase you are denying other players from getting any kind of read on you. Just because someone doesn't like that stage of the game, doesn't mean he should be allowed to get off not participating in it.

So, its sort of a lurking scumtell, you're saying? Do you find lurkers are more often scum?

In short: yes and yes.

But after this, that seems to be the last time you call anyone out for lurking. Not Has, not Seph again (in day two or even three), Ghost, Dynamo (who made absolutely no posts from what I can see), spring, etc.

---

I'm really rather between BA [who arguably has pretty been active lurking but coupled with some really oppurtunistic votes] and Llama.

So,

Vote: Llama

But I would just as well go for a BA lynch.

[ShadowGirl]

In light of the recent claim,

Unvote

Vote: BA

For the massive amounts of oppurtunistic voting and active lurking.

I really can't make up my mind about massive and his hypocrisy about my active lurking. :/

[ShadowGirl]

Unfortuntately (or fortunately) I haven't played with you before so I don't know whether you are normally this agressive or patronizing, but it is a good sign of scum trying to cause a townie to break down. (Sure, go ahead - say what you want.)

That was a valid question about being whiny. Anyway, by acting this way YOU are doing a disservice to town as well. Do you honestly think that angering me to such a point that I do not want to post is helping town? Really?

About SSK: Yes to the first, sorta yes to the second. It was due to the mechanics that made that harder.

Back to the current game...

Anyway, about my 'horrible' active lurking - can I motion you to the last post of the previous page? Can I point out that massive has been doing just as bad as me, or even BA?

[ShadowGirl]

Only post that you'll get from me today (still on vacation).

We could probably go back and forth for another page or so about this. So here's my summary of what I have to say:

I believe we were both in the wrong (more so me) : No, I don't advocate my play as good (which I've said before) but I think perhaps you went about it a little too far (or perhaps it just seemed that way at the time.) I can and sometimes do take things personally, but I understand wanting to get players active (as this game did stall somewhere in the beginning of day three and throughout it.) Now that I've some time to relax and haven't been near a computer for awhile, I'm no longer in some state of maniacal rage.

However angry I am making you, i can promise you you're making me threefold. See the above: you wouldn't be making this threat if you were town, and genuinely trying to fulfil your win condition.

As I've said how I can take things personally, I have my own twist of the whole 'it's a game' thing : I'll do someting detrimental to town just to spite someone. (Not that I ever have previously, but I did have that mentality when all of... that happened.)

@About massive's comment (I addressed it with the following)

@Massive: If you think I'm scum then vote me, that's all there is to it.

Which while still brash, is to the point.

1) That post itself is the result of pressuring you to contribute
2) It's actually really quite scummy. You make a load of minor points which you don't follow up on, then jump on the biggest wagon, with another player that everyone suspects as no2.

1)Yes, perhaps so - but the objective is to get me to post, isn't it?
2)And if I voted BA? What would you say then? Anyway, the vote was largely based on Cybele's inactivity at the beginning and me possibly just materializing connections out of thin air (it's some of paranoia I instill). BA was the vote I should have made, but now that's it there, I'm perfectly happy with it.

@LF's claim: Considering how many kills there are, it's likely there is a SK (as opposed to a second vig) and it seems logical enough to have a psychologist. And for the record, I'm not the SK.

---

Your first two points: Basically that I was protecting Stef and trying to get attention off him? Anyway about the second quote (since I don't see the big deal about the first one) : at the time he was taking tings very personally - why shouldn't I tell him that the way he was going about it was not the right way? I am more leanient on newbies, but as I said that doesn't entirely excuse their behaviour. Not much else I can say on those points - you can view as such a way. However, do you think at such an early stage I would have risked my neck for him?

This one is just red flags all over the place. First, Tajo and Seras actions are null tells, which is amazingly hard to believe when you read this game. I personally was surprized Tajo lasted as long as he did. Stef is regarded as a weak scumtell though. Now at this point SG had just unvoted in the same post and does have Stef at scum, weak it may be but at scum. There is no vote for Stef though. It continues as calling Tajo scum for defending Stef. Now, player A defending player B is not scummy if you do not know either alignment. Player A having defendED player B who flipped scum is scummy though, and is reason to take a closer look at player A. Now - SG is using Tajo as A and Stef as B. Stef is being used to build up suspicion on Tajo, but neither player has flipped, so SG is essentially using unknown alignment (which she only has as slightly scummy) to call another unknown alignment scummy. This just seems like SG knew that Stef was scum and tried to use that to further other lynches before Stef was actually revealed.

I was playing with Tajo in another game, and his playstyle was very much the same so I didn't really see him as being overly scummy. So, what are you getting at with me saying they were null tells? One of those people did flip town, you know. You're exaggerating my post - nowhere do I deem him scum for defending scum. I say he is 'slightly' scummy. Neither do I say Stef is scum either, but merely exhibited a weak scumtell. So, all in all : you have majorly exaggerated what I said.

Now this is interesting. Both BA and SG did similar things D1, just SG did it a bit less blatantly then BA did. They both made a connection between tajo-stef that hinged partially on the other being scum. BA said that tajo town leans stef town, SG used stef scum so tajo scum. SG just jumps on BA though, and then lurks for most of the rest of the day.

Where have I explicitely said that if one flipped scum that it meant the other was as well?

[ShadowGirl]

Basically the above post. And although her interactions with Stef imply Yakuza, I actually think that she'd be Greek. Why? 'Cause I've been there before. Defending and teaming is done by scum, but usually with a pro-town as the 'victim'. Though remember, Yakuza don't know who the Greeks are.

I don't think I understand. Do you mean that I defended Stef in attempt to, that if I got lynched and flipped scum it would throw suspicion on him?

This is the only problem I have with SG's latest post. I'll admit that scum probably wouldn't dismiss the idea entirely

Of course, it's still a possiblity - I just meant in terms of percentages that it's more likely someone in such a case wouldn't have.

Waiting for massive to post, as well what are BA's suspicions.

[ShadowGirl]

First yes, you seemed to be trying to defend Stef by firstly trying to counter the line of questioning CKD was starting, and secondly by trying to calm him down instead of taking a strong stance on the conversation that was occuring. Your post was more on a way to ignore the entire string of events, you completely fence sat on if Stef was scum, and tried to calm him down. Also nice WIFOM defense at the end there.

I had no problems with the line of questioning (did I say anything of the sort?) and as to why I didn't discourage it. Having no prior playing experience with Stef, I didn't know if this was his typical behaviour (taking things so hard and all). As well, why shouldn't I calm him down? The way he was playing was detrimental to town. About the last part (as I explained to Jahudo) :

Of course, it's still a possiblity - I just meant in terms of percentages that it's more likely someone in such a case wouldn't have.

First of all, I dont see how someone claiming vanilla the way tajo did can ever be seen as a nulltell, hell even if someone like Nat did that I would be wanting them lynched. Now you are pulling the "well I was right" card on tajo flipping town, which I dont think surprised you. What you did do though is use Stef to incriminate Tajo in your 11th post. Since you saw tajo who you called town, slightly scummy for defending stef, who you also saw as town. In your 14 though, you change this around, and are trying to make Stef scum because tajo is scum, which gave you reasoning not to carry through with any case on Stef day 2. Much like BA was accused of doing.

As I've said before, I've played with Tajo before so I wasn't completely surprised with his theatrics, so no, I wasn't surprised that he flipped town. I didn't view Stef as town (and have not said so) - I viewed him as neutral - his behaviour was either scummy or very anti-town. As well, am I not allowed to change my views after a page and a half and more information has come to light? As well, my fourteenth dealt less with Stef-Tajo scum and more on the possiblity of Tajo being scum by himself (being that he was deflecting attention back onto stef).

You implied this paring multiple times (your 11 and 14 are the best examples of this)

Implied, yes. Not say 'if one flips scum the other must be'. If one flipped scum I would certainly take a closer look at the other, no doubt - but that did not gurantee the other to be scum.

[ShadowGirl]

Prod on: Spring, Massive, BA?

/*
* Prodded.
*/

[ShadowGirl]

wtf, my posts keep disappearing.
Anyway, I don't know who to suspect at this point. If I had to pick one person, it would probably be SL, because she hasn't posted anything. I know this is hypocritical, but I'm starting to doubt my suspicions of Jebus that I had earlier, and SL would be next in line.
So, for lack of a better option,

vote: SpringLullaby

You're flopping, once again. While do I agree that she hasn't been posting much, do you have anything more substantial on her?

@SL: Do you think that from my posts that I seemed definitively certain that if one flipped scum the other was for sure? (I believe that's what me and LF are going back and forth about.)

[ShadowGirl]

The problem with that oh-so-brave stance is that, at that exact point in time, no one was going to follow me onto you. With so many killing parties and so many scum to go, it doesn't pay for me to have blinders on. I can think you're scum while still thinking other people are scum.

I don't dissagree with the statement that you can think other people are scum and vote/think other people are scum as well. However, at the time I don't believe that 'no one' would follow the wagon on me. Fonz was willing to and plus - I suppose I'll ask this question first: at the time, how likely did you think I was scum?

[ShadowGirl]

Happy scumday, spring!

Also, what don't you like about his return?

@massive: Can you confirm or deny being the SK?

I would/find it very odd that we have a psychologist but no SK...

[ShadowGirl]

I see. I skimmed that over thinking he was just saying he was rereading. Well, anyway - I think it's strange we have a psychologist but no SK. :/

[ShadowGirl]

BA should just vote SG already, sure its selfpreservation but when it gets scum lynched its worth it.

Do you think I'm scum beyond any doubt? (100%)

@Farside - If BA get lynched and flips scum will you at least take a closer look at SG for me tonight. This goes for the other BA voters as well, but farside a little more so.

But yet... you seem to entertain the possibility that BA could also flip scum. So, it seems you think that me and BA could possibly be scum buddies? What evidence do you have to support this? Also, I believe I refuted some of your points in 1108 that you haven't responded back to.

[ShadowGirl]

I would say above 90% sure. You fit as Jap pretty well, even without those connections though you are one of the scummiest players.

Without those 'connections' - really just Stef's, since I'm not aware of any others you've brought up - would you think I still fit as Japanese?

[ShadowGirl]

@LF: Fair enough, I suppose about you believing that I'm scum either way. I have nothing further to comment on until you reply to my previous points.

Is the point against spring basically that she was lurking + meta of her lurking as scum?

[ShadowGirl]

I have nothing further to comment on until you reply to my previous points.

I'm waiting for LF to respond to my points so I have something to respond to. I don't believe you've given me anything to respond to at the moment, other then gut vibes, which I'm not quite how I'm supposed to refute that.

Also, what does it matter to me what kind of scum you think I am? What I'd really meant to say was if without the connection to Stef whether I was still scum or not - not Japanese, but he answered my question anyway.

When is our deadline? Four, five days from now?

[ShadowGirl]

Deadline is in four days (I believe) and I think we're tied for votes.

[ShadowGirl]

I'm pretty sure. I was at 3, then massive voted me. You're at four.

[ShadowGirl]

BlakAdder's seeming unwillingness to shift his vote to save himself is bizarre, but town-looking.

My thoughts, pretty much. I'm more inclined to vote LF, really. I'm not really quite so sure we have a SK and not a second vig.

Anyway, since I'm at

L-1.

(Just in case anyone tries to pull the 'accidental hammer' thing.)

I'm a cop. I haven't breadcrumbed anywhere.

On night one, I investigate armlx: innocent.
Night two, Tar : (No result, he died.)
Night three : BA (I was blocked.)

I'll reply to LF later, after I eat lunch.

[ShadowGirl]

Your mish mash game happened quite a bit after I joined your mish mash game, Jahudo. ;P And it was partially because you're in this game that if you were scum you would easily catch onto my breadcrumbs, and well, I was kind of betting on being alive. I believe I've only be NKed once on the first night, but I was town that time too. I always seem to be kept around for this sole reason - I'm a fairly easy lynch. As far as not breadcrumbing, I didn't breadcrumb as doctor in Open 70 either.

Armlx seemed very pro-town to me, and such is this case that I usually turn the other way - so I figured I'd ensure that he was on town's side. I'd intended to investigate BA, but changed my mind at the last minute.

In my notes I see something about a possible Tar-Sierra team because of post 396, but I didn't elaborate on much else.

And then I decided to investigate BA on night three, partially because of all his oppurtunistic voting, and the fact that my gut is usually half right.

As far as 'not getting a result' I was basically just told to go look at the thread and see his alignment there, which I consider not getting a result.

Not faction specific? What kind of point is that? I didn't realize we were playing in some topsy turvy game where pro-town roles had their alignments flipped.

[ShadowGirl]

@Jahudo: Either way, I just don't really breadcrumb things. In my mind, my breadcrumb of arlmx being town is that I've never called him scummy or anything the sort. Yeah... I just don't really breadcrumb things.

In your seventh post you push on CKD for overreacting towards Stef. In this post there is zero sense of encouraging the line of questioning towards Stef, but more of a defense of Stef given that you are trying not to counter the questions but the questioner. You also really didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to Stef apart from trying to get him to calm down, especially alignment wise. You mention him a few times near the end of the day but most of the attention you gave him was related to the question.

I had no problems with the line of questioning (did I say anything of the sort?) and as to why I didn't discourage it.

I never said I was encouraging it, so stop trying to misrepresent me. Nor did I 'push' on CKD - I merely said that it was likely a joke vote. I don't understand the 'especially alignment wise', I wanted him to calm down, since his actions were not helping town at all, and as such why I didn't mention any more - what else did I have to say about a person who wanted to get himself lynched?

Can you link me to the game or games where Tajo claimed vanilla town on page five and really was vanilla town? This view on him seem to be entirely meta based, and I really don’t want to get into the whole “antitown meta” argument in another game right now. If someone is scummy you lynch them. Now, you say that you thought Tajo was town given the way he played. You call him scummy in your 11 and 14 though, so I don’t get those conflicting reads. Also in your 12 you called Tajos move WIFOM, you never backed it up with a meta until just recently.

Now you are trying to explain the Stef-Tajo thing as Tajo was more likely scum by himself. This again goes against multiple things that you have just said because I thought Tajo-town was not at all surprising to you. Guess not. Also Stef-Tajo connection was looked at and you thought Tajo was scum deflecting onto his scum buddy? Getting really confused about your Tajo reads throughout the day, and trying to find out what they were makes me realize how much you ignored the whole thing.

I never said he claimed vanilla in another game I was in, but that the way he played was similar to his town play in another game. Now about the 'conflicting read'. At the beginning of the game, I categorize everyone as neutral. Then his vanilla claim happened, which I considered a null tell, so he was still pretty much at neutral (though it seemed it odd for a scum-tajo to do such a thing). Then tajo went and defended stef (defending another player wasn't something too odd for tajo, but not to such a degree.) Then he tried to deflect attention back to the person he had been defending, which didn't seem like him.

So, chronological thought process: Neutral > Neutral > Scummy > Scummier > Town (Because of the weird, weird doctor claim)

This is different then what BA did, and what you voted him for how? I kind of wish Stef would of got vigged N2 instead so I could of seen you completely ignore Stef given that Tajo flipped town.

He was advocating for the

clearing

of a person, who incidentally turned out to be scum.

I'll reply to the other points in the next post, otherwise this will just be one big wall of text.

[ShadowGirl]

No, I thought BA first then changed it to armlx. I explained my reasons for Tar - I couldn't read him and I saw a link between him and Sierra in post 396. Alright, I'm typing up a larger post at the moment, which should be up in a few minutes.

[ShadowGirl]

Being lynchable does not make you town. Having not breadcrumbed in a past game does not mean we should let that part of a claim go.

Did I ever say anything of the sort? As far as being 'lynchable', it was 'partially' bad play on my part, in the sense I was more concerned of making it through to the next day. And hopefully in that time as we purged town of scum, I would get some useful results. Do you think I'm happy that my results aren't useful?

Dont pro-town players usually get, you know, nightkilled? Also as I have pointed out before, you had similar thought processes on Stef-Tajo as BA.

What about yourself, LF? I don't believe I've played with a game with you where you were town where you didn't get NKed. (Other then when you were scum.) And I've explained the 'similar thought process' thing in the post above. He wanted to eliminate suspicion.

So you investigated Tar based on interactions with Sierra who as far as I can tell you never got a single read on?

Correct. I inspect people based on my gut, and whom I can't get reads on. (As well as people whom I think are trying to look 'too town'. Not usually a reasoning I want to pull out, but does sometimes lead to something.)

What about how nearly everyone was in agreement that a vig should kill BA? Did that just get ignored?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't our vig claim on today, not yesterday? I don't think you can bring up the plan to exterminate him if it didn't happen at the time.

Investigative roles should ALWAYS get a result. It helps the player with any insanity issues they might have.

As far as 'not getting a result' I was basically just told

to go look at the thread

and see his alignment there, which I consider not getting a result.

I consider that as not technically getting a result, but being told to go look at the front page and seeing him show up as town - I guess you could say I got an innocent on him. That's what I could take out of the PM I recieved.

So you would get a guilty on any Jap mafia, and Greek mafia and the SK? If it is a 4-4-1-1 setup and you got guilties on all mafia, that would make your role so unbelieveably powerful, especially with the watcher and doctor that it just isnt feasable. Maybe, maybe if this was faction specific it would be believeable, but it isnt. So it isnt.

I would think it'd be the opposite. Wouldn't knowing the exact faction be more powerful, say, to perhaps help us out in a case like this where we want to erase one faction completely? But to answer your question, yes, I would get guilty on them.

And if anyone decided they are going to hammer me, I'd like a last word, okay?

[ShadowGirl]

I still thought he was scum, so why wouldn't I want him lynched?

[ShadowGirl]

And that is, well, one way of knowing his alignment... That way I wouldn't have to inspect him the following night.

[ShadowGirl]

Well lets just do this - Swordsmith (given that most Jap kills seem to use sword). Gets "knife carrier" on Jap, SK, (doctor-scalpel?). Gunsmith gets "has gun" on Greek, vig. Right there is a very crude way of having two investigating roles that pick up different factions and doesnt give it away right off the bat.

Underselling a role that can just keep clearing people is scummy too. Given the doctor + watcher you are impossible to touch without taking those two roles out or getting caught in the act. Also universal cop doesnt fit with what has flipped so far too much. Tracker/Watcher are the main investigative roles and I am the specific investigative one.

Well... We don't have either of those. You have me. But it's far easier to 'cripple' town by giving the possibility of being able to murder the 'cop' roles in one go.

How am I underselling a role? As well, I'm not technically 'impossible to touch'. If I claimed and asked to be protected, then, yes, perhaps I would be. But considering our doctor is dead, that isn't the case. Do you think completely taking out the cop would shift the 'advantage' towards scum's side? Also, I'm not so sure about your claim since we haven't seen a SK come out yet, and because all of your crumbing was done, well, today.

Once again, if anyone has the inclination to hammer me, I'd like a last word.

[ShadowGirl]

Arg. I copy and pasted my paragraphs elsewhere. Hold on.

Im a little confused here, it sounds like you are saying that you intentionally played slightly scummy so you would not get NKed and hope results or claim saved you when people finally decided to lynch you.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. It worked once, at least. Suffice to say, I'm never quite sure how to play PRs.

Did you just imply im scum because im alive day four? This also in no way defends against the logic of investigating someone that you find pro-town.

I said armlx seemed almost 'too town'. And secondly, yes, I did imply that you

could

be scum, not solely because of that, but that point is something that makes me wonder.

Actually why did you not go back to BA here? You found him suspicious given how D2 played, yet you did not investigate him despite that and the suspicion of him on N1. Also why did Tar-town mean Sierra-town? Why Tar over Sierra?

I hadn't really been following the game that much in day two, but BA seemed slightly better - I believe it was day three that most of his oppurtunistic votes happened. And no, it's opposite. I thought perhaps Tar-scum might Sierra-scum. Sierra seemed townier to me.

Most people were saying the vig should kill BA. Investigating someone in a three way tie for deadline lynch is a great way to get your investigation target killed. EA didnt claim untill today but there is no way I would of tried to check a player I saw as vig bait when it was apparent there was one out there.

So? That didn't mean he would be killed. I don't understand your second two points. How would my inspect get them killed? And you just said I should investigate someone who I would see as vig bait...? o_O

I still dont like not getting a result either way, or even not requesting one just to be absolutely sure of sanity.

I considered that as pretty much getting an innocent result on him, but it was technically a no result. Would you like me to ask for clarification?

[ShadowGirl]

*Pulls up 'Too Townie' notes from ICing for use if needed*. Also I replaced N3... it wasnt even publically announced untill D4.

Really? I thought you were around on D3. My timeline/attention to this game didn't really pick up until this day.

I have a hard time understanding Tar looked scummier then Sierra given that he was NKed, and he was a very believeable watcher gambit claim. Also I dont think BA looked townie D2, he just lurked out of the spotlight.

I play by my gut and intuition, so if he looked scummy to me, then I'll investigate him. I consider oppurtunistic voting scummier then lurking.

I would of bet big money on Rush or BA getting killed by the vig, and im shocked EA didnt kill either of them really. Someone must of though Rush dropped a PR tell or something to that nature. My point is as a cop with a KNOWN vig, you dont want to start investigating the most likely people to be killed.

I'll keep it in mind for future reference. But I thought he was acting very scummy, so I decided to investigate him. That's all there is to it.

Yes. Are your results "not mafia" or "innocent"?

Sent Claus a message. It says they are supposed to be 'evil' or 'not evil', so that it's possible to group in the SK, I guess. But I got back innocent on armlx, so I guess he changed to a more standard thing?

[ShadowGirl]

Being lynchable does not make you town. Having not breadcrumbed in a past game does not mean we should let that part of a claim go.

Did I ever say anything of the sort? As far as being 'lynchable', it was 'partially' bad play on my part, in the sense I was more concerned of making it through to the next day. And hopefully in that time as we

purged

town of scum, I would get some useful results. Do you think I'm happy that my results aren't useful?

Dont pro-town players usually get, you know, nightkilled? Also as I have pointed out before, you had similar thought processes on Stef-Tajo as BA.

What about yourself, LF? I don't believe I've played with a game with you where you were town where you didn't get NKed. (Other then when you were scum.) And I've explained the 'similar thought process' thing in the post above. He wanted to

eliminate

suspicion.

So you investigated Tar based on interactions with Sierra who as far as I can tell you never got a single read on?

Correct. I inspect people based on my gut, and whom I can't get reads on. (As well as people whom I think are trying to look 'too town'. Not usually a reasoning I want to

pull out

, but does sometimes lead to something.)

What about how nearly everyone was in agreement that a vig should kill BA? Did that just get ignored?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't our vig claim on today, not yesterday? I don't think you can bring up the plan to

exterminate

him if it didn't happen at the time.

Investigative roles should ALWAYS get a result. It helps the player with any insanity issues they might have.

As far as 'not getting a result' I was basically just told

to go look at the thread

and see his alignment there, which I consider not getting a result.

I consider that as not technically getting a result, but being told to go look at the front page and seeing him show up as town - I guess you could say I got an innocent on him. That's what I could

take out

of the PM I recieved.

So you would get a guilty on any Jap mafia, and Greek mafia and the SK? If it is a 4-4-1-1 setup and you got guilties on all mafia, that would make your role so unbelieveably powerful, especially with the watcher and doctor that it just isnt feasable. Maybe, maybe if this was faction specific it would be believeable, but it isnt. So it isnt.

I would think it'd be the opposite. Wouldn't knowing the exact faction be more powerful, say, to perhaps help us out in a case like this where we want to

erase

one faction completely? But to answer your question, yes, I would get guilty on them.

And if anyone decided they are going to hammer me, I'd like a last word, okay?

Since you people are so big on breadcrumbs, here's mine, I guess. I found as many synonyms of the word '

remove

', if that makes any sense to anyone...

[ShadowGirl]

The whole 'remove' thing: It's a reference to the win condition. No one caught on?

[ShadowGirl]

Yeah, ShadowGirl needs to be hammered.

How has your suspicion of me changed (since previously I wasn't at the top of your list, and you just threw your vote on me for the sake of self-preservation.)?

The whole 'remove' thing: It's a reference to the win condition. No one caught on?

I think I know what you're saying but how do you know or we know that scum don't have that word too?

You don't, I guess.

I pondered what my last words should be, as to whether I should change about inspecting armlx (which is true), and say that instead I inspected BA (and got guilty - which would make a whole lot more sense given how I acted), knowing that I am going to turn up cop. But then again, if I'm wrong then that would be setting you all up for a steep fall. I'd intended this to be more spiteful, but then I realize that my wagon is likely primarily scum-based. I believe, at the very least that Llama is scum (99% sure), while BA is still a likely candidate. It seemed some of that 'coaching' Llama keeps saying I was doing to Stef happened between him and Llama and BA.

@Fonz (since all the spite isn't completely out of my body) : <Placeholder 'I told you so'.>

As to about my result on N2, Claus said he can't give to me since when we were all supposed to send in the night actions we already did to him, I was one of the few to so (or only?)

@farside: This kinda of feels like that time I claimed PGO. ;P

[ShadowGirl]

I told you so.

[ShadowGirl]

In fashion with my 'bah' post : I told you so.

For the game I referenced with me not breadcrumbing as doctor had LF as scum, by the way.

[ShadowGirl]

I actually debated lying about a result, but I figured I should let the game run its course.

You do realize you lynched a cop without a counterclaim, correct?

[ShadowGirl]

Odd. I didn't peg you as scum until the very end in the other game, but in this game I knew it was you rather early in the day.

I can't remember, but was it you that gave the possibility of a japanese being left?

[ShadowGirl]

I already said that I didn't really get 'no result' - Rikimaru just told me to look at his alignment in thread, which was akin to getting an innocent. It was Tar who I'd inspected, not armlx. And anyway, as you said, with so many kills going around it would be sheer luck if any of the people I've investigated were alive when I said my results. I did what I needed to do to stay alive as long as possible.

Anyway, my major points against BA were some links between him and LF.

Hold on, near the end couldn't Jahudo have vigged LF? Since technically there was a way to revert his majority? Not that he doesn't deserve to win. <3

[ShadowGirl]

I was essentially looking in all the wrong places, luck was merely not on my side, it seem. I did indeed see some sort of link between Tar and Sierra [who turned out scum] and BA and LF [scum, once more.] I will say that armlx was a bad choice, and that I should have went back to BA. I don't really remember the exact wording, since I've deleted all the PMs I don't need.