Mini 672 - Tranquility (Game Over)

[Lord Gurgi]

The Tenth Votecount - For those who can't do math, it's seven to lynch.

melikefood (4) - SpyreX, Porkens, DraketheFake, Nameless
Rishi (1) - charter
stormer (1) - Malyss
Kmd4390 (1) - Stef
camn (1) - Kmd4390

Not Voting (4) - melikefood, Rishi, stormer, camn

No flavour for you guys, I'm dying in Japanese.

[charter]

It may be too soon to judge, but if this trend continues I'd consider Kmd highly suspect as scum attempting to remain active without actually contributing.

Setting himself up to be on Kmd's wagon if it becomes popular.

It was the first wagon I could get to three votes.

FOS: Charter

Mindlessly joining any bandwagon that comes along doesn't help without addressing specific issues, and the threat of lynching is meaningless if you don't really suspect them.

Portraying me as trying to get a fast lynch in, when I was just pushing the first bandwagon I could a little bit higher than the rest to spur discussion.

Stormer is 'obvscum', but if he gets quick lynched when we still have plenty of D1 left to gather information on others I, for one, will be a little bit annoyed even if he IS newbie scum. (Alternatively, stormer is newbie cop 'cunningly' diverting the scum's attention elsewhere. Stormer, don't reply to that.)

...

Now Watching Suspiciously: Spyrex. All you've done thus far is echo things other people have brought up (ie. Rishi and stormer wagon) or focus overly much on OOT discussion.

Setting himself up to be on the Spyrex and Stormer wagons. We're up to four people he suspects now.

#94 by stef could easily be considered unnecessary given I'd asked the same question and (more lightheartedly) commented on the same refusal in the previous post.

Kind of directing unwarrented (in my opinion) suspicion at stef.

Yikes, stormer is scaring me. But would scum really be this obvious?

Hmm, Rishi is attracting my suspicion. But would a scum partner really use such blatant WIFOM?

(Yes. Yes, they would.)

He's setting himself up to hop on the Rishi wagon. This is the fourth person he's done this to.

Also, attention seems to have moved casually away from stormer in this last page without any further defence by him. This may be indicative that stormer actually IS scum ... if he were merely clueless innocent, I would have expected the scum to be pushing harder for his lynch than has been done. However, if stormer is scum, it would go some way as to explaining why we're suddenly arguing again over an older issue.

Playing both sides of the stormer issue, so he's ready to switch to whichever gains favor.

Theory (ie. gut-tell): Either Kmd and Steff are both poorly thinking innocents or they are both scum heavily bussing each other with whatever they can think of. Somehow I can't quite get my head around the fact that either of them could be entirely in the right ...

Stef has been officially upgraded to possible scum. The total count is six now (stormer, Rishi, stef, spyrex, charter, and Kmd). Could be seven, he could have suspected camn, but I might have missed it under everyone else.

Regarding melikefood, his last post has changed my opinion of him; at first I suspected he was scum and was preparing to push for his lynch, maybe a week before deadline, if nothing else took - now, however, I am forced to assume melikefood is a troll. Or a goddamn jester.

I must have missed where he first started suspecting Food (I didn't, he only mentions Food in passing really). Regardless, it looks like he still does, that's number seven.

Melikesfood and Stormer need to die. And they're probably scum too.
Kmd and Malyss, as of now, are most likely to be scum.
Charter needs to start contributing, and may well be lurker scum.

## Vote: melikesfood

Dang, he saved me the trouble of finding all those posts. I don't think you realize there aren't five scum in a mini.

I wanted to do this a while back, but I couldn't very well pressure Rishi to post something if I had. My reasons - He constantly makes little posts saying how he suspects someone when they're coming under a little suspicion. He tries to find out which way the wind is blowing constantly (aka. wishy washy on his stances. hello camn). Has managed to name five people as almost definitive scum, I'd agree with maybe one of those assessments at most. Despite naming all these as scum, he also has some posts where he can go back tomorrow after a mislynch, and quote saying how he wasn't sure they were scum. He's being very quick to jump on people, and is being opportunistic.

##unvote Rishi, ##vote nameless

Along with this comes suspicion towards Drake and Porkens, because you are the two that he didn't suspect.

[melikefood]

Add to that the fact that you instantly assumed the claim would just make the suspicion fall away is, well, suspicious.

Never really said that...
I'm lazy, remember?

Anyway... When I turn up town, who on the wagon will you lynch?

[camn]

(aka. wishy washy on his stances. hello camn).

I know! I'm watching....

But back to MeLikeFood.
You still aren't making sense. It isn't your CLAIM that is insane.. it's the FACT you are claiming. It's your actual PLAY that makes no sense.. not even for scum.

How did this work in your head? What was the point of your claim? Please... enlighten me.

[melikefood]

So I was like...
"Yay, a game of Mafia! And I got a role too!"
"I should be careful to not get lynched"
"Oh no, That's too careful"
"I got a role, maybe I could use it..."
"No wait, it's a bad looking role anyway..."
"If I don't get lynched I'll probably get NK'd later, but probably not immediately... so I should get lynched and then whomever could try digging out scum from the bandwagon."
"Kay. I'll do that."

[charter]

Can anyone on food's wagon tell me what he has done that makes him scum? I'll give you that he isn't being terribly helpful, and his claim out of nowhere is unorthodox, but I don't see anything that points to him being scum.

[camn]

So you were trying to get lynched by claiming?

[Porkens]

Can anyone on food's wagon tell me what he has done that makes him scum? I'll give you that he isn't being terribly helpful, and his claim out of nowhere is unorthodox, but I don't see anything that points to him being scum.

lurk
lurk
lurk
gibberish
gibberish
power roleclaim (and expecting to get lynched for it)

I'm also trying really, really hard not to second guess the mod but...a mafioso role blocker seems...odd.

[SpyreX]

Can anyone on food's wagon tell me what he has done that makes him scum? I'll give you that he isn't being terribly helpful, and his claim out of nowhere is unorthodox, but I don't see anything that points to him being scum.

I made my case on it a while ago.

So I was like...
"Yay, a game of Mafia! And I got a role too!"
"I should be careful to not get lynched"
"Oh no, That's too careful"
"I got a role, maybe I could use it..."
"No wait, it's a bad looking role anyway..."
"If I don't get lynched I'll probably get NK'd later, but probably not immediately... so I should get lynched and then whomever could try digging out scum from the bandwagon."
"Kay. I'll do that."

So your grand master plan was to get lynched so we can dig scum from the wagon?

It would have been commendable

had you not been scummy

to get the lynch. If it was a minor mistake that got you hounded there might be some relevance. But, instead, you claim with 2 votes and just tell the people on you to get off.

Not to mention that, although I'm not THAT experienced, roleblocker is traditionally a scum role - its one of those things that can help the scum a lot more than the town.

So, yes, my vote stays.

@charter:

Although I'm glad to see more content from you - you realize on some level that reads like a giant OMGUS, right? Especially since this is your first post after he said you might be lurker scum.

Also:

##unvote Rishi, ##vote nameless
Along with this comes suspicion towards Drake and Porkens, because you are the two that he didn't suspect.

Right idea, WAY to early out of the gate. At this point in Day 1, its not gonna hold water.

[charter]

You're digging too deep into what I'm saying. But if nameless does get lynched today, and is scum, I will without a doubt be much more suspicious of Drake and Porkens.

Also, my case against him is not OMGUS, as the points are from the entire game. Also, he named half the people as scum in that post. That was also my first wholly original post this game I believe, it just happens to be a coincidence that I was one of the chosen scum in his post. (Also, like I said, I wanted to post it much earlier, but was waiting on Rishi).

[SpyreX]

I'm really not seeing a Nameless lynch today off of that. Stormer AND Melikefood have both been a little more off-cuff. You're gonna need more to persuade me than agressive finger-pointing by Nameless.

I'm saying the timing is what really makes it feel like it was half-baked. You make the post before you get called out for being a lurker by the person you made it on, it has a little more weight. I'm looking at it, of course, and I do see a few other questionable things Nameless has done BUT that doesn't change the melikefood "gambit".

[Rishi]

Yeah. I don't like melikefood, either. I have seen scum claim power roles out of nowhere on Day 1. I don't like how he's speculating on the night kill, either. Also, this is a little thing, but there's this:

Now get your votes off me so I can get NK'd.

"If I don't get lynched I'll probably get NK'd later, but probably not immediately... so I should get lynched and then whomever could try digging out scum from the bandwagon."

Okay... maybe this isn't a legitimate slip, but it sounds like melikefood had an, "Oh crap" moment after his first post when he realized that he wasn't going to get NKed (since he's townscum) and needed a way to explain it.

And, melikefood, if you're really innocent Mafia, you should actually be defending yourself and trying to AVOID the lynch. If you resign yourself to being lynched, then innocent Mafia is just as likely to jump on the bandwagon as townscum, and there's little info that can be gained from the lynch.

##Vote: melikefood

[Nameless]

Portraying me as trying to get a fast lynch in, when I was just pushing the first bandwagon I could a little bit higher than the rest to spur discussion.

... Which is fair enough, but joining a bandwagon ONLY to prompt discussion

is

flawed compared to joining a bandwagon with a specific target or plan. I didn't actually say you were attempting to get a fast lynch either - one of the reasons I mentioned was that joining a bandwagon

without intention to lynch

means there is no threat, ergo less discussion becomes forced.

Kind of directing unwarrented (in my opinion) suspicion at stef.

At that point I was providing a possible example for an argument Spyrex had raised, Kmd refuted and Stef pointed out the lack of examples for. I was just bringing up a relevant post.

Playing both sides of the stormer issue, so he's ready to switch to whichever gains favor.

Um, not really. In the post you quoted (#174) I was noting an argument that (possible WIFOM aside) would implicate Stormer further.

Setting himself up to be on Kmd's wagon if it becomes popular.

It was a valid, minor, suspicion at the time. Nevermind that the trend did not continue and I suspect Kmd for entirely different reasons now. Or that you could say the same for anyone showing any kind of minor suspicon on anybody. So yeah.

Setting himself up to be on the Spyrex and Stormer wagons. We're up to four people he suspects now.

See above, and also - Players should suspect everyone who isn't confirmed on their side. For myself, that's one: myself. There's a difference between pointing out minor scummy actions (small suspicions) and strongly pushing for somebody's lynch as you have done with me (large suspicions).
This seems to be your biggest argument against me, so I'll elaborate further. (Those with basic understandings of Mafia, feel free to skip.) The only way the innocents are going to win this game (other than luck) is by catching out the scum in their answers. Answers require questions. If somebody isn't contributing, posts something ambiguous, makes a false/contradicting statement (ETC, you get the idea) then yes, I am going to point it out for the benefit of the innocents, and to elicit further responses that will either clear up the issue or damn the player further. The alternative is to focus on just one or two "suspects", as you call them. This is fine when they're at L-1 or have made a particularly egregious remark but generally I call that "tunnel vision", and it's going to cut the town's effectiveness. More suspicion on more players means more chance of scum screwing up and a great chance of the innocents figuring everything out.

Oh, and I like the way you assume that if I made a minor point against somebody early D1 that I must therefore still consider them a very likely suspect now (see: your 'suspect count').

I don't think you realize there aren't five scum in a mini.

The five I mentioned are the five players I currently suspect the most of being scum (hardly, as you say, "almost definitive") Obviously they're not all scum (unless LG is really evil, anyway ) but I expect most (ideally all) of the scum to be within that group.

I'd agree with maybe one of those assessments at most

Go on then ... which one?

[Nameless]

Oh, and ...

The only hope of it working is if camn is scum.

You keep saying that. Camn's vote and scuminess keep being entirely unrelated to what you've done.

[Stef]

The lurking, the role claim and then the contradiction of posts makes me consider melikefood as an appropriate candidate to a vote but then again stormer still isn't off the hook as far as i'm concerned.

They both were scummy so far but melikefood is just too obvious to make me vote so fast.

melikefood, the points made so far against you were good and your play was either bad either told us you are mafia or you have an unlikely role. I'm not sure about witch one is the case for you. Nor do i know yet what is the case for stormer yet.

There are some things going on with Nameless camn and kmd and i bet we're all waiting for some answers from stormer and melikefood so i don't want to rush into things with a vote before we get some answers out of them and we get to discuss a little more.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and ...

The only hope of it working is if camn is scum.

You keep saying that. Camn's vote and scuminess keep being entirely unrelated to what you've done.

The KMD Gambit is what made me look at Camn. The case itself comes from general scumminess in the game. Like I said, I don't expect anyone to say "oh look, a gambit! we have scum!!!!!!"

[DraketheFake]

Along with this comes suspicion towards Drake and Porkens, because you are the two that he didn't suspect.

So then you expect that Nameless, as scum, has made the newbie-ish mistake of fingering everybody in this game except for his two scum buddies?

The KMD Gambit is what made me look at Camn. The case itself comes from general scumminess in the game. Like I said, I don't expect anyone to say "oh look, a gambit! we have scum!!!!!!"

Hahahahahahaha, what. Are you really telling me you wouldn't have bothered to read the game unless somebody had voted alongside you? And if you didn't really expect anybody to say "Oh look, a gambit, we have scum?", then why do you keep listing "The KMD Gambit" in your reasons that you're voting him?

[Kmd4390]

Hahahahahahaha, what. Are you really telling me you wouldn't have bothered to read the game unless somebody had voted alongside you?

Wait, what?!?
Where is this coming from?
I always read everything in every game.

If nobody voted Stef, I'd consider the gambit a complete failure and play the game like I'd play any other game.

I have no idea where not bothering to read the game is coming from.

then why do you keep listing "The KMD Gambit" in your reasons that you're voting him?

Because I am being cocky and promoting my Gambit.

[camn]

I think your Gambit would be more applicable if I had actually cited your "case".

Because wouldn't the scum-tell be jumping on a crap case?
Whereas dropping a day 1 vote on someone because you don't like something they say... that, I think, is typical. Not particularly scummy.

However, building a crap case is also rather scummy...
In fact, a great scum gambit would be to build a crap case... and then burn down any rookies who actually buy it, citing the KMD gambit. Then, even when they flip town, you can cite them "falling for the gambit" as justification for their lynch.
Additionally, if scum got busted on thier crap case, they could then cite the "KMD Gambit" as their defense!

Brilliant!

[Porkens]

Because I am being cocky and promoting my Gambit.

I'm not sure that's helpful to the game.

Tags Fixed.

[Kmd4390]

I think your Gambit would be more applicable if I had actually cited your "case".

Timing...

You voted between the time I put up my Stef case and the time I unvoted and revealed the gambit. The point is: I have a case up on you regardless of what made me look closer at you.

Because wouldn't the scum-tell be jumping on a crap case?

Not exactly. The case is designed to look strong enough that it can be pushed. The scum are supposed to ignore a few intentional holes and make their own points to foster the case.

and then burn down any rookies who actually buy it, citing the KMD gambit.

If you would pay attention, you would now how terribly off this is. The gambit is null on newbs because they may be townies who agree with the case and don't think to question it. I don't use the gambit to net newb scum because it just doesn't work like that.

you can cite them "falling for the gambit" as justification for their lynch.

Again, way off. Falling for the gambit is not justification for a lynch. It's justification for looking closer at a player or two and deciding if there is a case there. I think there is a case on you regardless of whether you fell into my Gambit or not.

-3 (or 4 maybe) avatar attacks (not a big deal)
-quick to change your mind about the Rishi wagon.
-worried about being 3rd vote on charter.
-trying too hard not to look scummy.
-backpedaling with charter vote.
-either discrediting everything above this as joke OR staying in joke phase too long.
-buddying up.
-victim of the KMD gambit.
-too worried about perception
-

twisting the purpose of the gambit

-

only attacking gambit itself and not defending against the actual case

The last two are new.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not sure that's helpful to the game.

Well, I don't think it's hurting anything to leave that on my quoted case.

[charter]

I'm really not seeing a Nameless lynch today off of that. Stormer AND Melikefood have both been a little more off-cuff. You're gonna need more to persuade me than agressive finger-pointing by Nameless.

I absolutely will not advocate a Food lynch today (unless something new comes up). I will go back and look at the stormer case and see if there's any merit besides the cop fishing. I don't like how you are limiting the options for today to between two people, one of which I firmly believe is town.

Nameless is basically confirming my points against him, so I'm quite happy with my vote there.

Oh, and I like the way you assume that if I made a minor point against somebody early D1 that I must therefore still consider them a very likely suspect now (see: your 'suspect count').

Perhaps I missed it, but did you ever say you weren't suspicious of them anymore? I didn't see it, so that led me to believe that you still are. You just kept on fingering others.

I don't think you realize there aren't five scum in a mini.

The five I mentioned are the five players I currently suspect the most of being scum (hardly, as you say, "almost definitive") Obviously they're not all scum (unless LG is really evil, anyway ) but I expect most (ideally all) of the scum to be within that group.

It's absolutely ridiculous to have the scum all pinned down this early in day one. You can't possibly know anyone else's role (if you're town, which you claim) so for you to have 'found' all the scum already, is quite absurd.

I'd agree with maybe one of those assessments at most

Go on then ... which one?

Malyss perhaps. I haven't looked too hard at him or stormer though. I'm not scum. I don't think Food is, as I've said. Also, Kmd seems to be hunting for scum rather than piling on to the easy wagon (Food) and is giving me a strong town vibe.

Along with this comes suspicion towards Drake and Porkens, because you are the two that he didn't suspect.

So then you expect that Nameless, as scum, has made the newbie-ish mistake of fingering everybody in this game except for his two scum buddies?

I think that's a strong possibility, however, it's meaningless until I know nameless's role.

[Stef]

Why do you think melikefood is town charter? I understand you don't like limiting to two options but why do you think he is not scum?

[DraketheFake]

I think that's a strong possibility, however, it's meaningless until I know nameless's role.

Right, so why bother saying it? It's meaningless fingering, which is largely what you're accusing Nameless of. Be consistent. If you want a bonafide classic scum tell, go back and read stormer's posts in this thread where he fishes for the cop.

...see if there's

any merit besides

the cop fishing.

Hahaha, what? Is anybody playing the same game as me? Once it became clear that he wasn't attempting to poorly breadcrumb cop, there's no other evidence needed. His subsequent disappearance is only further damning.