Invitational 10: 2005-2006. Game over! before 624

[HackerHuck]

If you had two votes, would you split them like that or put both on Elias?

[elvis_knits]

@dgb and hackerhuck, what was tying up the wagons supposed to accomplish? Seems like it just pushes us more towards deadlock.

[HackerHuck]

My tying up the vote counts was not intentional - Chamber corrected things after I voted. That said, I think that a tied up vote gives us two people to focus our energies on and should provoke some more debate.

Considering we haven't even been threatened with a deadline, I'm not so certain that it's undesirable to be deadlocked right now.

Do you have a position regarding Elias? I don't recall ever seeing you address him (at least not recently). Aside from self-interest, do you think he's a good lynch for today?

[DrippingGoofball]

@dgb and hackerhuck, what was tying up the wagons supposed to accomplish? Seems like it just pushes us more towards deadlock.

Quite the opposite, I want to see who people will pick, because that's going to be hugely informative latter in the game. It's better that the cowardly non-voters have a choice between two players, rather than just one.

[pablito]

DGB, who are these cowardly non-voters that you speak of?

e_k, interesting that you of all people made that comment about "tying" the wagons. You have the most to lose because of it. Nonetheless, I don't get why DGB and Huck did it. I don't think we should really look at e_k right now. I think we need to pressure up Elias even more.

[elvis_knits]

I'm not interested in lynching elias solely to save myself... I would only vote him if I thought he was scum. I think a lot of the bad feeling toward him has come because he didn't read the game and go "OMG ELVIS IS SCUM" like a lemming. And I don't think that makes him scummy.

[pablito]

I've ignored that part about Elias, and I truly hope that it's not the only reason some people are still suspecting him. His defenses have been piss-poor and his behavior doesn't match his own thoughts.

[Patrick]

Patrick then tries to really take the wind out of the sails by starting off a little heavy on Elias and then directing his attention to the newly replaced. It’s a good time to be asking questions, so it may not be as suspicious as I first interpreted it.

Wind out of what sails? All I can imagine is the elvis_knits wagon, which I stayed on. That post wasn't really about her, it was me taking a look at players who I hadn't much of a read on. What are you calling out as suspicious?

Elias has done this twice. Once in terms of his language something about the town standpoint. And I already attacked him on it. And now again here about scumhunting. Elias does not feel comfortable with his own game in this invitational to rely on it. While this can be overt frustration, it didn't start until he had to be on the defense. While his last post feels a little better, I doubt that I will be moving my vote for a while.

I agree that his defence about being a weak scumhunter is a poor one. The pointing to his use of language regarding "according to the town" doesn't bother me, and his followup came only after you asked him to provide examples, so not really sure how else he could have reasonably done it.

I also agree with Pablito's point about players referencing their own metas as a defence. Obviously if you are aware of how you play as scum versus town, that basically makes any meta meaningless and unusable as a defence.

Disagree. Being aware of some differences in how you play as town v scum isn't the same thing as being able to change how you play. One example I can think of off the top of my head of someone saying this can be found here.

Considering we haven't even been threatened with a deadline, I'm not so certain that it's undesirable to be deadlocked right now.

You might want to take another look at the deadline rules.

HackerHuck doesn't worry me as much now, and even slips below bird in my suspicions (who really needs to post, by the way). I admit this isn't so much due to a dilligent reread but more just because I hardly remember anything bird has said.

[bird1111]

Ug. Sorry people, but I can't get myself motivated enough to contribute on a regular basis, so I'm going ahead and requesting replacement to avoid this turning into another Mafia vs. Wolves.

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias,

It sounds like you're saying that you suck at town because you don't know how to scumhunt, and you excel at scum because you are good at expressing faux-indignance.

1) Do you usually get lynched or NKed or endgamed as town?
2) Are you typically more of a lurker as scum or town?
3) Do you traditionally bus your partners aggressively as scum?
4) Are you busing any of your scumpartners in this game, or are they playing well enough that you don't have to?
5) Are you typically somewhat indifferent as town, or do you give it your all?

These are all questions that dont have answers, as there are no typicals or usuals about my playstyle. Recently I've been NKed a lot more as town, but whether I get NKed or not depends on my town performance which varies. My lurking isnt based on alignment, its based on available times, number of games I'm in, and how interesting I find the game. Whether I bus aggressively or not depends on whether I think its advantageous or not, obviously. Sometimes I do and sometimes I dont. Anything else and I'd be a terrible player as scum. Question number 4 is so clever. I'm not bussing you because youre playing so damn good. Last question depends on whether I'm into the game or not. This game I really dont care about because every post I make is declared scummy by every single player, when only about 2 explain why.

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias- how was my word choice extremely slanted? What are you suspicious of them for if it's not for them being scummy? You also seemed to miss the point of why I mentioned that. How is it that their lack of posting and content is any more or less scummy than yours?

I never claimed I was much better, though I did have an excuse for the first six-seven weeks. The wording was extremelt slanted because attempting to paint as scummy as a much more negative connotation then Elias calls so and so scummy.

[pablito]

Patrick, you came up with one example about mentioning outside gameplay. I just want to put out the disclaimer that you chose that one example and there probably exist many many examples that counter your argument, but of course, I'm too lazy to look outside this game and therefore prove its existence.

Hence, this is why I feel that Elias defense was a cop-out and a very scummy one at that.

If only Juliet had a chance to overtake the apothecary, she might've just been the one to knife Ether's throat.

DGB - if momentum swings elsewhere, will you follow that too? Or will we actually see you plant somewhere with actual logic?

MBL - are you pleased with this tying stuff and why not?

[Thestatusquo]

CrashTextDummy replaces bird1111

[Thestatusquo]

Hiiiii

DGB: 2

(Bird1111 elias)

Elias: 4

(Bluesoul, Pablito, Mr.Buddylee chamber)

Elvis_Knits 4

( Patrick, ether, hacker huck, DGB)

CDB: 1

(Elvis)

not voting: 0

()

[CrashTextDummie]

CrashTextDummy replaces bird1111

*CrashTextDummie

Hello guys, I'm replacing bird1111. Most of you probably don't remember me, so let me introduce myself:

My name is CTD, and I'm a habitual lurker and frequent drop-out. I was shocked and appalled to see that all these other, lesser slackers were invited before me.

So

shocked and

so

appalled actually that I've decided to come out of perpetual lurking to show you how it's really done.

But fear not, for I am working under a stringent, self-imposed one-post-per-day regiment. And as a show of good faith, I'm gonna try to recollect what I know about all the players in this game:

bluesoul

- I vaguely remember playing in a game that he modded. I believe he abandoned it.

chamber

- Uh, I dunno? I'm sure we've played together at

some

point, but he didn't leave a lasting impression.

Elias_the_Thief

- Hearing his name gives me flashes of a newbie game we may or may not have played together, in which he may or may not have been scum. No seriously, not even the mod knew for sure. Also, he may have dropped out. I'm keeping score here.

elvis_knits

- I can say with modest confidence that I have no recollection of ever playing with her before at all. I may have read a couple games of her, maybe.

Ether

- Hm, yes, the name does ring a bell, ever so faintly. I believe I replaced her once. Those were the good times.

MrBuddyLee

- I do sort of remember getting nightkilled by him once, because I had him and his buddy utterly figured out. I may be wrong though, that was a long time ago.

Patrick

- Isn't he the guy that's famous for sucking at endgames? Or maybe he's the guy that's never scum? I'm not sure here, could be either.

Pablito

- Oh, oh, I do remember! No, wait... Something about a hopelessly confusing newbie (in which

someone

dropped out, but couldn't say who for sure at this point). And lepers. That's a strange memory.

HackerHuck

- I think he doesn't tend to be alive when I get involved in games. But maybe that's because I usually don't get involved in games during the early goings. Or maybe it's because I just don't recall.

ChannelDelibird

- I vaguely remember replacing him once. And him replacing me. I think we're drop-out buddies or something.

DrippingGoofball

- Nope, don't remember her.

Must. Suppress. Memories.

Well, that's it. I should probably read the game now, right? I don't really remember the protocol.

[CrashTextDummie]

Unvote

, while I'm at it.

Any deadline I should be aware of?

[Thestatusquo]

CrashTextDummy replaces bird1111

*CrashTextDummie

This is your first warning, please read the rules of the game.

[MrBuddyLee]

busted

[CrashTextDummie]

Well, looks like I'm off to a good start.

I've read up to page 10, and I'm gonna post a little summary now mostly for me to gather my thoughts because I didn't take as many notes as I would have liked to and I'm going to bed in a minute.

If I was in the game at this point, my vote would have been on Bluesoul, mostly for vibes and not in particular for any of the points brought up against him (he was on the spotlight quite a lot until now). I feel like he has concentrated his efforts so far mostly on technicalities or easy to attack players, and that he has done so in an aggressive and assertive manner that doesn't seem quite sincere to me. Has been calling for DGBs head for most of the game so far, but mostly kept her on the backburner as far as his arguments go.

I'm generally a bit puzzled by the lack of vote movement. Those 10 pages have been a seemingly endless stream of discussion where, for the most part, no verifiable conclusions were ever drawn. Somewhat irritating. I'd lean towards showing willingness to throw your vote around being a pro-town trait in this situation, though I haven't really done the research on who this applies to.

It bothers me how Patrick isn't easy to read for me anymore. He sometimes seems to be inquisitive for the sake of being inquisitive (as opposed to actually being interested in the answers he's seeking). Apart from an early post where I felt very in tune with him, I for the most part lacked that feeling of overwhelming pro-townness I remember getting from him.

On the other hand, I don't get why Patrick and Ether expressed difficulty in reading PJ (not to mention some other people who expressed difficulty in reading PJ in general). His posts in this game pretty clearly fit the meta, as far as I'm concerned.

MBL is a lot more verbose than I'm used from him in the early goings of a game, which tells me first and foremost that he came into this game to perform. This is reminiscent of a town-performance in recent memory and therefore makes me lean towards pro-town, but not without caveats. Gonna have to mull them over before putting them into words though.

Having taken a peak at the current vote-counts, I took a special interest in the posts of Elias_the_thief and elvis_knits, though I haven't seen anything worth getting excited over yet. Elias' has been shamefully inactive, but his one post of note looked decent enough to me, and matched my own pro-town perspective pretty well. E_k has been a bit too passive for my taste, which could become bothersome if it turns out to be her general MO.

Last but not least, I'll be having a close eye on IH. He's somewhat reminiscent of a scum-performance I once overlooked as mod.

That's it for now, more tasty contribution once I've had a good night's sleep.

[Patrick]

CTD, which meta do PJ's posts pretty clearly fit? From your lack of accusation I assume you're saying town, but I've never seen him playing anything like this as town, and he's been town in all my games with him.

[CrashTextDummie]

You assume correctly. My meta on him is based mostly on tone, and I'm taking into account that he may have been playing somewhat differently due to his knowledge of having to be replaced in the future (at that point in the game), as he quite believably claims. I take it you haven't considered this fact when evaluating his play against your meta of him?

More reading and analysis later in the day.

[MrBuddyLee]

This game's momentum is dying. We have a lot of information to work with today, but very little on a few people. I'm very much looking forward to seeing CTD in action.. when he's town he's damned good. *crosses fingers*

[HackerHuck]

Welcome CTD. My main recollection of you is your old avatar of the cat wearing a melon helmet. At least I think that was you.

I'm a little suspect of your first post. Granted, I didn't have a good feeling about Sacastro, but posting such a large mostly irrelevant (albeit a bit humourous) post about your feelings on each of us helps build up some "helpfulness factor" that can hide the fact that you're really an unhelpful scum. Basically a good start to lurking in plain sight. Let's hope that you bring more insight like you did in your third post.

I also agree with Patrick that I haven't really seen PJ play that way as town before.

Patrick - I'm now not seeing how the comment I made makes any sense considering your posts over the last few pages. I will say that you gave a townieish response to that seemingly absurd observation of mine.

[CrashTextDummie]

This game's momentum is dying. We have a lot of information to work with today, but very little on a few people. I'm very much looking forward to seeing CTD in action.. when he's town he's damned good. *crosses fingers*

Are you saying that I suck as scum?

Welcome CTD. My main recollection of you is your old avatar of the cat wearing a melon helmet. At least I think that was you.

That was me. It was a lime helmet though. Limecat is not pleased with your distortion of this fact. Also I don't lurk in plain sight, it's not my style. Half of Mafiascum can attest to the fact that I prefer old fashioned straight lurking.

In unrelated news, I've continued my read up to and including page 16. Urge to lynch bluesoul... rising. Urge to lynch MBL also rising. The game actually got very involving and I feel quite awake, so I will finish in one sitting and post my reasoning in the full analysis.

[bluesoul]

If I was in the game at this point, my vote would have been on Bluesoul, mostly for vibes and not in particular for any of the points brought up against him (he was on the spotlight quite a lot until now). I feel like he has concentrated his efforts so far mostly on technicalities or easy to attack players, and that he has done so in an aggressive and assertive manner that doesn't seem quite sincere to me. Has been calling for DGBs head for most of the game so far, but mostly kept her on the backburner as far as his arguments go.

This actually got me thinking about my playstyle, something I generally don't do, and with one exception that's pretty much me on Day One. I'll play largely on gut, if someone doesn't sit right to me and their posts don't do anything to placate my discomfort I'm going to go after it in the absence of information. I would like to think I'm easier to understand, motive-wise, than most; I believe in an openness of meaning*, which is part of why Sarc's "how do you know the scum couldn't talk before the game started" comment really irritated me (there were other reasons which I believe I've elaborated on enough). The exception would be your statement that I go after easy to attack players, and I find that more or less baseless; if you can provide an explanation for that I'd like to refute it.

And I think people know I'm insincere. I mean, look at the avatar. Hell my self-bestowed usertitle on wifom was "A Paragon of Disinterest". Sky's blue. Water's wet. For the most part I am at least going to give the impression that I don't care...I think my style of writing has a little bit to do with that impression.

Anyway, read on, it's a lot to slog through and unfortunately it's running low on interesting reading material as of late.

*Openness of meaning doesn't mean that I'm above setting a trap or playing a gambit, but I'm normally very clear later about what exactly I was trying to accomplish by it.