Micro 1003: Divide and Conquer - Game Over!

[skitter30]

Heya i'll be around after work!

@sircakez i'm vla on fridays and saturdays, etc

This pl is awesome :)

[skitter30]

ok i am ~here~
i have approximately 30 minutes tho and then i'm gonna bounce again till tomorrow but then i'll actually be around

i have spent approximately 12 seconds thinking abt the setup and i think that we probably want to flip thru the 3-hood (unfortunately) cuz we'll net at least one scum, and then use the nks to sort out 5p and 3p as needed

i'm actually gonna read now

[skitter30]

Pooky tell me that I’m wrong that it u were scum and skitter was town that you wouldn’t have a neighbourhood with her

i think he puts me in a hood with him every time if he's scum tbh

[skitter30]

also if no face is hectic i think he always puts ydrasse in a hood with him

[skitter30]

We should vote for the one who is acting like mafia :)

*is* this hectic?

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter this is the level 0 thing, I feel like I always get out-wined in these scenarios but yeah

hello

[skitter30]

I think both mafia are in the neighborhood of 3 :/

are you trying to townslip or ...

[skitter30]

Yah I think the problem with putting myself in with skitt would be the paranoia, esp in the 3p

ngl i was kinda thinking you were being +town for you until you said this
but this *does* make me paranoid ^

[skitter30]

Cause skitt is good at scum and scum expect us to hunt in the 3p hood first

infinity do u think we should be flipping in the 3p today?

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter this is the level 0 thing, I feel like I always get out-wined in these scenarios but yeah

Norwee has trouble pinpointing the reason behind why scum!Skitter would put herself in a neighborhood of three if she is the stronger player of the team. :/

i'm p sure the answer is going to be something along the lines of: if she has a weaker scumpartner she'd take the 3p in order to shield them from that scrutiny

which is, tbf, a fair point

but i kinda feel infinity has entered the game assuming that we're going to flipping in 3p first and is setting the stage for why that ought to be me

[skitter30]

I have a permanent grudge against anyone I have correctly scumread in the past and failed to eliminate

Skitt get in here and fite me

VOTE: skitt

Ydrasse you're free for now

ok let's fite
- from your pov why is it me and not bingle
- do you understand how from *my* pov this looks to me like you entered the game trying to force a 1v1 with me
- aside note: if infinity is scum and taking this tactic i expect her partner to be less confident / the partner doesn't think they would be able to do the 3p (no offense to whoever that may be if that is indeed the case)

[skitter30]

guys

we r killing in the 6p hood today

because if we hit the scum in the 3p hood, the scum shoot one of the players in the 3p hood, and tomm we r back to trying to find the scum in the 6p hood.

but if we hit the scum in the 6p hood, the game is over and we win.

but we're guaranteed at least a scum by flipping thru 3p, no?

going for 6p today means we *might* get a win today but otherwise we end up in a similar space tomorrow with a large hood and an unresolved 3p that if i'm counting right we won't be able to flip through, which by definition means mitigating the chances of netting one scum, if i'm counting this right

it kinda reminds me of coalition of whether we ought to be trying to win (getting the coalition day1) or whether we ought to try to mitigate the losses if we don't get the coalition day1 by getting a coalition that will at least be easier to sort through up failing, as those things aren't always necessarily the same thing.

but i think it's usually better here to net the guaranteed scum and then try to find the other scum in the 6p because while it's not as ~flashy~ it'll help our overall chances of winning

[skitter30]

Infinity town.
Skitter wouldn't put themselves in 1v2.

Bingle scum.

why is infinity town?
and to be quite honest there are some scenarios where i would put myself in 1v2 (although i can't imagine i woud like it very much, and would vastly prefer not to)

[skitter30]

it only means we r on the right track mena

they started the openwolfing before you said your plan tho, no?

[skitter30]

Still TR u tho

U can’t take that away from me

And was correct too

You started of SRing me, then you TRed me, then you were trusting skitt. Somehow I feel like you would've been SRing me if skitt wasn't there but I guess we'll never know

You can still sheep skitt's read on me this game, we can't be partners

i think you're conflating jk++ with pyp x|y i|m, no ? isn't pyp the one where mena tried to flip you like six times but i wouldn't let him. or was that something else

either way i'm not really townreading you here so

[skitter30]

Pooky: we should lim in the 6p hood
Infinity: ehh idk
Pooky: here are all the advantages of limming in the 6p hood
Infinity: on the other hand, here are all the advantages of limming in the 3p hood
Everyone: wow infinity is so against limming in the 6p hood

i'm also not sure this actually, like, happened ?

[skitter30]

Mena already brought up the argument, but I think both skitter and Pooky scum would be likely to neighborize the other.

Would anyone in the larger pool be characterized as limbait? They're probably town if so.

i don't disagree with this assessment tbh - i think i neighborize town-pooky just abt always cuz he absolutely never tries to flip me as town
and he always neighborizes me (even if he thinks i might try to flip him) to chill with me

~ i think nor is probably the most flip-bait-y person in 6p (sorry <3)

[skitter30]

I think pooky is likely town regardless of skitter's alignment.
If skitter is town then I buy the stuff about neighborizing her, and if not, they're probably not together from skitter agreeing that it's a thing.

indeed

[skitter30]

ok didn't get to finish, gonna pick up at 164 later or tomorrow

[skitter30]

Skitt can read me well I think but she's gonna say I'm town

i kinda feel like you're expecting me (and wanting me) to townread you here while also pushign me as the likeliest in 3p to be scum?
and like you want me to townread you to get mena off your back

which doesn't entirely make sense as a coherent pov to me here

[skitter30]

Correctly limming in the pool of 3 D1 makes this a functionally a mountainous setup. It's not terrible, but it's also not great. OTOH, correctly limming in the big pool wins us the game. Also, limming in the big pool means scum is likely to shoot in the big pool. In the case that skitts is town, letting her have multiple phases to solve the game is a dangerous proposition. Similarly with me. Leaving both of us alive means that there is a decent chance that one of the two of us destroys the shit out of the gamestate, which is a risky proposition all around. If scum is going to shoot in the little group regardless, we want to force them to make that decision later. If we conftown people in the little group, doing so late game is inarguably the stronger move.

tl;dr -> Catching scum on D1 is less important than setting up a winnable XLO.

i think it's kinda better to go for the slow-and-steady-wins-the-race approach because we *know* that there's scum in a fully-flippable pool and if we just flip through 3p we're guaranteed to get one before the game ends, and at taht point the 6p pt will have been wittled down to like 3 at worst (if we don't flip this scum till day3) and there will be loads of info from the nk's and how the flips in the 3p pt went down to sort out who the scum in the 6p pt is

it might take more time, sure, but it's ultimately safer

and yeah limming in the big pool wins the game - but only if we actually do so (and there's more people in there so it's easier to misflip ...) and if we don't get it right we're right back where we are tomorrow ...

(it's weird to have an argument for why we should handle this a specific way dependent on leaving me alive cuz i'm me so uh yeah)
(but it's also weird that you're lumping yourself in there with me - i'm not sure if in this game town-you is the person scum are playing against (no offense))

also is your argument for why conftowning people in the little group bad largely solely based on who's in it or ...
i'm kinda rambling as i think through this but let's say infinity is scum, we flip her today, say i die tonight. are you basically arguing that in that scenario we'd want town-you to be conftowned later so we shouldn't try to flip scum-infinity today ? or am i missing something. or if you die we'd want me to be conftowned later? either way we'd have a conftown through the end of day2, no? that's p good?

and if we flip in the big pool today - say we find the scumz, yay. but let's just say we don't ... we won't have any conftowns day2, but it's also not guaranteed we'd get any at any point, right? misflip again in either pool and day3 we can have no conftowns. like we can be in day3 with a 1v1 in the big pool and the small pool unresolved.

[skitter30]

In the case that skitts is town, letting her have multiple phases to solve the game is a dangerous proposition. Similarly with me.

This makes sense, you sold me

VOTE: vander my first FoS, he's playing like he did in underage gun control (idk his town meta though)

he's really townie tho >.>

[skitter30]

-If jingle is as strong as scum as you, it could be either one
-Sure, but I expect you to be TRing me once you read up (I think)

- you aren't approaching this like it could be either one tho
- i don't think you're being townie for you
- maybe i missed it but did you answer this: which pool do you think it's optimal to flip in today?

[skitter30]

Why do you not think it can be skitt as scum who decides to scum read you?

I'd think that it would be too hard for scum!her to justify, but maybe she can anyway. I'm not sure. I feel like I'm already kind of out of my scumrange though, and will get more so as the game goes on.

Also, I didn't want to say "scum!skitt would be pressured into TRing me here" because then it would be easier for her to just SR me and she'd know I wouldn't get suspicious. I'm now realizing I probably thought about this too much and scum!skitt can justify whatever she wants

I still think it's significantly +scum for skitter to be SRing me here

i mean i think that your approach to this day has been agenda-driven sooooo

[skitter30]

VOTE: infinity

i'm caught up, but if someone @'ed at me and i missed it would you mind just requoting?

i think that vander is town
pooky almost for sure puts himself in a pt with me if he's scum so i'm ok calling him town for now
infinity is scummy
mena i got townpings off of

nor, no face, ydra, i don't have any thoguhts on
bingle i'm still kinda processing how he's approaching this but i think townier than infinity

and that is where i'm at

[skitter30]

she seems to think that we're flipping in 3p today, and i feel like she's sort of gearing up for a fight there

in that case if she's expecting 3p to be the focus, and is going on the offensive, it makes me think there would be a weaker partner in 6p because they wouldn't want the partner to be in the center of everything

[skitter30]

skitter just townread me this game to make up for that normal :3

i'm not quite there yet but i will most certainly be more Judicious and Thoughtful in how i try to read you :)

[skitter30]

-What do you mean "approaching this"? I voted you which is like the only indication that I suspected you more? And I didn't know jingle was a particularly good scum player at first so idk what you're on about
-You're very wrong and I don't believe you believe that
-Jingle convinced me that it's better for whichever of you is town to be alive for longer, so 6p I guess

- uh see posts 56, 77, 90, and 106, am i *not* supposed to be thinking that you suspect me more? you vote me, say 'skitt is good at scum and expecting us to hunt in the 3p first' and then tell me to fite you ...
- i mean you kinda have to say that
- two things here: a) i think you came into this game expecting 3p to be where the action would be, and were setting up your entrance around that. b) i don't really know what you found so convincing around his argument

pedit i'm working on it >.>

[skitter30]

Yah I think the problem with putting myself in with skitt would be the paranoia, esp in the 3p

ngl i was kinda thinking you were being +town for you until you said this
but this *does* make me paranoid ^

btw skitt i don’t understand why this makes u paranoid

first i thought that scum-you *would* put yourself with me, so the fact that we aren't together was a big reassuring, but then you said this which makes me think the opposite because scum-you would expect me to be paranoid of you, and i'm not in the same hood as you
but it's starting to become circular in my head a bit

[skitter30]

i mean i think that your approach to this day has been agenda-driven sooooo

Ok I would not be approaching this with an agenda if I was scum, I would be scared shitless and mostly just trying to survive by posting nuance

That's mostly what I did in panic room, my scumrange doesn't extend far beyond that

i literally don't understand how you're approaching this as town either tho

[skitter30]

think that vander is town

Explain this take too pls

uh everything that he says is just that pure townie tone and it's very clear he believes in what he's saying and that he thinks that everyone's being silly for proposing something as suboptimal as flipping in 6p and he keeps trying to explain why and his whole pov is just very consistent
and he had a line saying something like 'i don't care if the game takes longer i just want to win' and it was very townie - i'll try to find it

[skitter30]

also is your argument for why conftowning people in the little group bad largely solely based on who's in it or ...
i'm kinda rambling as i think through this but let's say infinity is scum, we flip her today, say i die tonight. are you basically arguing that in that scenario we'd want town-you to be conftowned later so we shouldn't try to flip scum-infinity today ? or am i missing something. or if you die we'd want me to be conftowned later? either way we'd have a conftown through the end of day2, no? that's p good?

If we conftown players in the small pool D1, they're both dead before XLO. It's the same principle as keeping masons hidden as long as possible. Having conftown early is actually pretty useless comparitively.

Also, from a gamestate perspective, we're guaranteed to have at worst a 50/50 at 5p XLO if we go big pool first. I'm not going to say that the possibility of scum fearkilling one of us out of the little pool isn't a factor (it is) but even without it the flip of the bigpool scum IS more informative than the flip of the little pool scum.

ok but we might not get any conftown at all your way
i don't think we should be playing around getting conftown anyways per se so much as we should be trying to flip scum and i think it's easier in the smaller one.

i do think that at worst having 50/50 in 5p xylo is a decent point actually ... but i think if we flip through 3p first we we guarantee 3way, no? it's that better? cuz in 50-50 5p xylo we still need to get it right to get to 3way?

[skitter30]

Skitt also knows that I struggle under pressure as town generally, so the plan is to elim me d1 and then NK jingle

but scum-me can't nk jingle there tho ...

[skitter30]

I guess it is slightly +scum for me bc yeh I prob wouldn’t wanna be in the same hood as you (I’d isolate strong players and bus the fuck out of my buddy D1 prob) if I were scum

I think it’s just not that meaningful bc I think a decent number of people here would, if they were scum, not want us in the same hood if we’re both town

i mean fair but that's what i thought when i saw that post
like i didn't say it makes you scum or that this configuration is impossible from town-you

i did have paranoid thoughts there tho

[skitter30]

What I don’t get is how that’s important for whether I was being towny here in thread? @skitter

i don't think i said it was?

[skitter30]

1. The first 2 posts were made before I was informed that jingle was good at scum, 90 was bringing up a possibility and 106 was pretty tongue-in-cheek
3. I was yeah. Also, having a strong townie alive for longer seems good? If scum wants to kill in the 3p group when we're not limming there then great imo (but I haven't super thought it through)

I want to leave the mechanics to others prob, not the best mech player

ok again this is demonstrating that when you entered the game you thought you'd need to push me, no?

[skitter30]

@skitts, ignoring whether we should hit the 3p or the 6p for the moment (the argument is getting fairly circular) if you knew for sure that we were going after the 6p who would you want to see dead rn?

ya i agree that it's getting circular, sorry
i don't have a good question to the latter question yet - like i'd say ydrasse/nor/no face because i townread the others more but it's kinda a cop-out

[skitter30]

I mean honestly skitt if I role scum this game I probably just cry and then provided my partner is halfway competent I put myself in the 3p and try to enjoy being able to open wolf all game

I’m only scum here ever with infinity, and even then only if infinty’s really doubtful of her ability to bring home a win

this would probably be a hard pl to be scum in, i imagine
i don't follow why infinity would be your partner here

[skitter30]

What I don’t get is how that’s important for whether I was being towny here in thread? @skitter

i don't think i said it was?

It felt implied?

it wasn't

[skitter30]

Obviously just ask me to clarify, I want to make it as hard as possible for scum!you to maintain this position

ok, let me take a step back - why did you start this game voting me?

[skitter30]

“i was kinda thinking you were being +town” is presumably based on my posting in thread

Idg why paranoia about setup stuff is related to me not being +town based on what I’d posted here

Like

It makes more sense to say that you’re getting paranoid AS WELL almost?

your posting through that point had the high-energy scatter-train-of-thought vibe that i associate with town you
i did have that thought when i read that post, so i said so

it didn't overturn the prior posts or vibe or anything, but it was there too and i wanted to mention it

[skitter30]

ok but we might not get any conftown at all your way
i don't think we should be playing around getting conftown anyways per se so much as we should be trying to flip scum and i think it's easier in the smaller one.

i do think that at worst having 50/50 in 5p xylo is a decent point actually ... but i think if we flip through 3p first we we guarantee 3way, no? it's that better? cuz in 50-50 5p xylo we still need to get it right to get to 3way?

Mathematically, limming in the big pool has a very slight advantage numbers wise, although not enough to make it a cut and dry this is the only option decision.

Subjectively, the difference here is low risk - low reward vs moderate risk - moderate reward. If we hit scum in the first two elims in the big pool we still have workable conftown come 5p. If we lim in the small pool we NEVER have conftown in 5p.

On a fundamental level, the more salient point behind me wanting to hit the 6p first is the one pooky brought up: The scum in the 6p can't afford to be elimmed today. The scum in the 3p CAN. I think hunting the former gives us far more useful information to make subjective calls than hunting the latter.

ok i feel like if i respond to this we'll get bogged down again since i kinda disagree with at least two of the statements/assessments you're making here.
~
but turning it back on you - if you were had to flip someone in the 6p rn, who would you ?

[skitter30]

Yes but I don't think I could do that. I probably wouldn't put us in a hood together to begin with.

I think you're projecting here, you're using my early soft push as an excuse to hard push me here when you would never be this confident in SRing me this early, even if you weren't TRing me

infinity.
you entered this game looking to push me. yes, i pushed back, because your push on me was agenda-driven and unfounded. i'm not sure why you think i *wouldn't* be scumreading you here.

[skitter30]

Town!skitt doesn't accept the logic of "this player makes no sense, must be scum". She uses what she knows about a player and weighs whether a town motivation is more likely than a scum one. In PyP she TRed me quite strongly when others were SRing me or much less sure. Her read on me here is fake.

and what's the town motivation?

[skitter30]

I'm going to sleep

night infinity! we shall continue our bickering on the morrow :)

Pooky.

ok interesting take, why?

[skitter30]

hello i am here and just skimmed like 20p >.>

infinity i want to table our discussion for now and/or continue it in the pt - it looks like we're focusing on the big pool rn so this discussion is kinda functionally moot atm and i don't have the energy for it today if this isn't going to immediately go anywhere; i promise i will circle back tho

~
i don't really get the pooky wagon or why it's, like, a thing. the gist of it seems to be that people don't think he's been townie? he's like always dead null at this stage of the game and doesn't really become sortable until like eod1 at the earliest ime

didn't really l ike infinity's e1 vote
didn't really like vander's e1 vote either but i still think his early game outweighs that

[skitter30]

no u weren't

[skitter30]

infinity i want to table our discussion for now and/or continue it in the pt - it looks like we're focusing on the big pool rn so this discussion is kinda functionally moot atm and i don't have the energy for it today if this isn't going to immediately go anywhere; i promise i will circle back tho

I prefer this yeah.

sounds like a plan.

[skitter30]

i'm at something like:

ydrasse
mena
vander
pooky
nor, bingle - null/idk
no face
infinity

[skitter30]

VOTE: no face

mena why exactly do u scumread vander again

pedit i do want to eliminate infinity but if we're flipping in 6p i can't ...

[skitter30]

I mean I guess u seem surprisingly chill about accepting that instead of pushing harder for infinity

Largely the fact that he was pinging me yesterday for being just ~around~ imo, and v v bland in his takes (reminded me of UGC)

Plus him then making a super opportunistic vote on pooky which, again, lines up with what he did not once but at least twice in UGC, I wanna say like 3 times on the one day he was alive

i'm gonna be honest i'm kinda exhausted irl and don't really have energy for this tonight
i think i'm actually going to bounce because i keep reading but i'm having trouble following what everyone are saying and i don't think i can bicker with people rn

i'll come back hopefully tomorrow refreshed a bit

[skitter30]

Ok i have some thoughts and i think that examining the pooky wagon is key to understanding this game:

- i think it happened way too quickly to be natural, and from my pov given thay both infinity and bingle were on it, its inherently scum fueled
- a lot of the reasoning at the time seems to be related to the fact that pooky wasnt townie enuf, esp. as compares to other members of the 6p pool, which i found to be kinda silly because: a) he's basically always dead null at this stage of the game ime, i usually dont even try to sort him until day2 or later, and b) other people in the 6p hadnt at the time (and/or still havent) towntold

Going thru the votes/players on it:
- ydra is just kinda townie - she's around and keeping up, but has real content and isnt just fluffposting. Its clear that contributing to solving yhe game and sorting people is motivating her posting
- vander: the e1 vote was gross but i still like the early game and seems to actually believe his reasons for pushing pooky, and similarly really seems to believe the mechanics he's pushing. I think he has a scummy looking playstyle and in this pl might be flipbait; wpuldnt vote him today
Nor - dont remember his vote or like anything he's said
No face - also dont remeber his vote. Gonna be honest my vote last night was lazy off of some scummy vibes i was getting from him but i feel like i can do better so UNVOTE:
- infinity: also didnt like the e1 but upon taking a step back and having time to reflect, and also seeing how she's interacting with the game and other slots, i think i was annoyed at her more than anything else. I agree that she's probably out of her scumrange and cant keep up like this in real time and probably just avoids posting if scum tbh. Or makes like random ineffectual comments that dont really have thought behind the and dont really go anywhere
Bingle bingle bingle: i'm also kinda getting an agenda-driven vibe from him tbh. From the start he's been very adament abt pushing in the 6p for mechanical reasons, and he's using this as an excuse to avoid sorting in the 3p. More than that, he entered the game using the fact that me and pooky are in different hoods as a springboard to push pooky. Combined it kinda makes me wonder if the hoods were designed this way on purpose, to create a reason to push him in that pt while using the mechanical reasoning to avoid having to push/sort me at the same time. Also if infinity is town he's kinda just scum

Offwagon:
Pooky - tbqh if he's controlling which pt people are sorted into he puts me in the same one as him like always to chill and shitpost with me, irregardless of how he thinks i might view that and/or whether or not i might decide to push him for it. We're not in the same pt so town
Mena: i think the high energy real time stream of thought is very +town for him, esp since it doesnt really seem to be agenda driven, he's just kinda saying whatever pops into his head. Also if he were scum he would be kissing up to me more i think but isnt in that he isnt really sitting around waiting for me opinions / acting like i'm the key person he needs to interact with like in panic room + he osnt really hesitating to challenge my reads so i think +town

I want to go here for now: VOTE: bingle
I still think that sorting in the 3p is better tbh, from my pov i have a 50/50 chance of getting it right today and at worst get it tomorrow and i still am unconvinced that 6p is better than that

[skitter30]

Counterpoint why would norwee put himself in the 3p

who do u think is his partner is in my pt?

i think that bingle and nor can't be paired because bingle is p aggressively pushing flipping in the 6p and he's all but created a situation where he'd need to put attention on his partner

infinity/nor does make sense in a world where scum infinity thinks stronger scum needs to be in the 3p cuz we'd be flipping in there first - if infinity is scum i think it would have to be with like exactly nor or vander (cept i townread vander and i kinda am townreading infinity now as well. don't think this universe is too likely either

[skitter30]

Benefit? My vote is Vanderscamp.

no

[skitter30]

Pooky - tbqh if he's controlling which pt people are sorted into he puts me in the same one as him like always to chill and shitpost with me, irregardless of how he thinks i might view that and/or whether or not i might decide to push him for it. We're not in the same pt so town

Try again, but this time make the argument not presumptive on you being town.

i mean this is the universe i'm playing from + i don'tt hink you're aligned with him

[skitter30]

i'm also kinda getting an agenda-driven vibe from him tbh.

:thorface:

go on

[skitter30]

Going thru the votes/players on it:
Nor - dont remember his vote or like anything he's said

I wasn't on it.

oh maybe that's why i don't remember your vote then :lol:
who was the other vote

ydrasse jingle no face infinty (e1) vander (e1)

or was infinity only e2 and i'm misremembering it as two e1 votes
i feel like someone unvoted in between

[skitter30]

Ydrasse, Mena, Pooky, No Face have all felt town.
Vandercamp's felt fake. He was so obviously town to me in the previous game we had, here his posts seem artificial and constructed.

And which one of me/skitter/Infinity puts him in the pool where he literally has to survive?

It doesn't really matter if he flips scum. We win anyway.
But i'm feeling Infinity town as of right now, so either one of you or Skitter in most likelihood.

i mean to scum it presumably matters if scum-him flips so what exactly was the plan and who planned it

he's literally prototypical flipbait idk why everyone is jumping on it

[skitter30]

Was you and Skitter in that game he was vigged?

No, but why choose an unknown to carry for you?

I think the most likely explanation for vander!scum you actually brought up earlier which is that jingle wanted a challenge

don't think jingle challenges himself that way

[skitter30]

i'm finding this no face / pooky thing to be kinda boring and circular. i think they're most likely tvt tbh

[skitter30]

Was you and Skitter in that game he was vigged?

Nope. Do you think I wouldn't have asked a potential scumbuddy if they could carry the game before making them carry the game?

This is WIFOM territory and i don't care for it.

literally the whole point of this setup is figuring out what scum pairs are likely to do (or not) and try to deduce who they are based on what we know has happened (i.e. the pt split)

you can't just handwave that analysis as wifom just cuz you don't want to view it that way

[skitter30]

i'm p sure i just said i don't suspect norwee
i'm gonna be honest i townread a lot of the 6p and most of the others are more ~null which isn't ideal but i'm working on it

[skitter30]

i'm p sure i just said i don't suspect norwee
i'm gonna be honest i townread a lot of the 6p and most of the others are more ~null which isn't ideal but i'm working on it

Who are the null reads

it's roughly in order of: ydra, mean, vander, pooky, no face, nor with ydra being the strongest townread and nor being someone who mechanically is unlikely to be scum (unles sit's like with you) but i don't townread on play

i don't really explicilty scumread anyone in that group which like i said i'm aware is a problem but i'm working on it

[skitter30]

@skitt i feel kinda more concerned by you in this game than I have in a while

that's fair, i had a few off days and a bit of an off start so i'm not super surprised
i'm sure you'll get there in time

[skitter30]

@infinity/vander:
my mind is very like gamestate-oriented more than mechanics-oriented and the way they're arguing and how people are interacting with it kinda feels tvt to me - the pooky wagon grew super fast (and from my pov at least i know it's scum fueled because both jingle and infinity were on it) and once mena punctured it the tvt became a Giant Thing that's just kinda ~there~ but other than like vander nobody's really engaging with it and neither side is gaining traction - if it were tvs i imagine that the t half would be going somewhere but, like, that's not really happening. scum are just kinda content to let it be a thing that's taking up space but dont' really doing anything abt it otherwise

if there's scum in the pair i think it's more likely hectic than pooky but i wouldn't feel very good betting on either rn, at least part of which is that i dont' think i've had a very good grasp on what's been going on; my apologies for being absent but i think that all of my extra vla stuff is over for now

@mena: i haven't the foggiest idea what the thought process was behind the 3p and i can't imagine why i'd make this group either. i also will not vote vander today and i dont know why you're scumreading him. he's literally flipbait and doesn't really have a scumpartner imo

[skitter30]

i don't get why you think this because like... in theory if one of them is scum like, there's not really a lot of motivation much elsewhere that can get it going? like there's the scum in the 3p which... i think can't really do much without it being pretty overt right?

idk if im missing something simple but i dont think? in this game that scum can like... afford to do anything abt it to help their scumpartner if they wanted it? if that is tvs that is which, uh, idk, i don't think hectic is the scum in it personally :< (his frustration this game has made him all the more townier to me, honestly)

i still feel weird about pooky's replies, like something isn't clicking for me and maybe i'm tunneled but everytime i read his replies i feel like he's... idk... misrepping hectic a lil bit, even if it's not big things, but it just feels like he missed the fundamental beginning of why he was being voted and now it spiraled and yeah

a few things:
- i mean so you think that it's tvs and that the other scum is just sitting it out and avoiding the conflict and hoping that we get diverted by the shiny object that is like vander or nor or something? because that's what they'd have to be doing in that universe but there also isn't much traction for those either - like if they're hoping to let this die out by very steadily avoid fanning any flames i imagine that they'd be at least entertaining the notions of voting outside the 1v1. mena is like the main person who keeps trying to start other things tho and he's literally in that pt so he can't be scum with either of them and neither push that he's been making has been gaining traction. like are you positing that the scum in the pair is just keeping the argument going and the scum outside the pair is just watching it and ... not doing anything?
- i think that pooky is townier than hectic and i think he originally didn't fully understand what hectic is saying and now being right matters more to him than anything else.
- i know that you and hectic share a level of like ~soulread~ that i can't profess to even beginning to understand, so if you can elaborate a bit on why you think hectic is townie that would be helpful

[skitter30]

There's a bit to respond to there but it blows my mind how I could be considered flipbait and not pooky, given what each of us has said this game

i mean no offense! <3 but in this pl a lot of people know each other and are considered hard pushes and you are one of the people who are, like, not and i townread you so i think that i need to quash these as they come up cuz otherwise if you're town i'd bet good money that you're gonna end up as a misflip

this isn't an indictment on your play or anything so much as i think that compared to everyone else you're gonna be easier to get flipped
~

I guess the thing I most want to respond to is your thoughts on how the wagon formed.

Bingle said pooky was his top scum and voted him, but then immediately unvoted him when the wagon hit E-1.
Do you think that is inconsistent with them being partners? Because I expect scum to be fairly likely to have bussed early in this set given what everyone was saying, and I have trouble believing bingle believes the stuff he is saying about Pooky's responses to no case being valid.
Like, even in the world where I am super super wrong and pooky is town and no case is scum, pooky is obviously correct about no case's intentions, but even then there has been a bunch of what pooky has been saying about the situation that is still definitely not correct.

I also think infinity voted pooky only briefly, but I think infinity is town so I'm not as worried about this.


I'm also not sure why when the fact that momentum on both candidates has died down dramatically since the momentum has been increasing is a sign of it being town on town. Sure, if it was t vs s, mafia are sort of incentivized to push the t, but aren't they also incentivized to not solve it at all?
Why wouldn't they want to flip pooky (or no case) and make the other one (and me if pooky is flipped) look really bad?

wrt bingle i mean, like, ig but if pooky really is scum:
- he's gonna look super super super bad if pooky ever flips and there was a fair amt of momentum towards that happening
- to sort of compound that if scum his entire plan seems to be trying to find scum in the 6p. if he's partnered with pooky that means he's gone into this game having some sort of narrative for how he'd interact with scum-pooky and how he'd be pushing him; or to say it another way no matter who his partner is he's going to be having some sort of idea for how he'd interact with his partner. starting a wagon on a partner and then unvoting is just kind of inelegant and doesn't really match the narrative that scum-bingle would be trying to cultivate and quite honestly he's better than that

also if scum is likely to be bussing why would he even unvote >.>
wrt momentum dying see what i wrote to ydrasse above but, like, what do you think scum are doing rn ?

[skitter30]

@skitt If pooky is scum this a panic room situation where there aren't really mislimmable townies and scum can't really do anything

i mean i imagine that's the case irregardless of pooky's alignment given the pl

it's kinda like the normal a bunch of us just played too

[skitter30]

i'm also kinda getting an agenda-driven vibe from him tbh.

:thorface:

go on

You've said those exact words in literally every game you've played with town me, afaicr.

I have an agenda. That agenda is poking things with sticks until alignments fall out. Having an agenda is not inherently scummy, especially from me.

(uh i don't remember saying these exact words or accusing you of this before >.>)

ok but this game started with a n0 and presumably scum had some sort of plan in mind when choosing the split. like by very nature of hte setup either you or infinity came into this day with some sort of expectation for what the fallout of the hoods would be, and would be playing around that. that's why i found infinity's entrance to be scummy, because it looked like it was coming from some pre-conceived notions for the implications of teh hoods.

like you know that scumtell where someone weird dies and the next day someone comes in and goes 'oh they died obviously because of X?' when it's not at all obvious and it kinda belies that they had some input/insight on why the person died? this is sort of the same thing. scum inherently have some sort of narrative or explanation in place for why the hood placements are what they are, and will be kinda firm and consistent in pushing those narratives, and i imagine that it will be shaping how they're approaching the day / phase / gamestate / other pt. i'm trying to find the people who are viewing the game that way, and yes, in this context entering the game with a strong narrative for why the hoods are the way they are and using that to push people is scum indicative imo

[skitter30]

@skitt If pooky is scum this a panic room situation where there aren't really mislimmable townies and scum can't really do anything

i mean i imagine that's the case irregardless of pooky's alignment given the pl

it's kinda like the normal a bunch of us just played too

This is to answer your "what are scum doing?" question, they're not doing anything because they can't really. I mean if pooky is scum it's probably just you as the partner but yeah.

i mean i imagine they're not just literally sitting there and just letting everything happen?
and i wish i was scum with pooky but alas that has never been a thing yet <3

[skitter30]

I lowkey feel that this was harder for scum given that both skitter and pooky have got such strong reputations as scum players

I feel like it would maybe work better if there were more of a disparity in how both are perceived

Yeah this too ^

Also the timing was super bad for me, by the time i could actually play (like thursday), it was kinda too late and a bit of a wash

<3 y'all are awesome tho, i wish i could have put up a bit more od a challenge. Would love to play with you all again soon

[skitter30]

I am going to run this setup again. It'll prob take a couple weeks while the other games ahead in the queue go first.

I was gonna suggest another iteration too!

[skitter30]

some playerlists r just really hard to win against as scum :3

^

[skitter30]

yeah basically, by the time i had the wherewithall to do anything abt it there wasn't much to be done

i already told cakez i'm fine with releasing it, but there isn't much in it tho

you played very well!