Yeah, that reread made me feel really good about this.
That was not a case but this is.
Va- V. V is for Vote and V is for Vivian.
Vote: Vivian Darkblaam
I think Vivian is an evil vagina-hater. I'm completely ignoring my other points with respect to her play about how I felt she was feigning newbishness since she has already defended herself against those points and perhaps I was wrong about that. Either way, I think her play aside from those points is indicative of her being scum in this game:
We start off with this FoS which was directed at Falcone. I've mentioned at least once or twice how this FoS just completely rubs me the wrong way. Her explanation for the FoS came later in this post:
Vivian Darkblaam, [b][url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1166304#1166304]in Post 112[/url][/b], wrote:Mirth wrote:Vivian, I'm not sure I understand the first part of your post. Clarify a bit please?
Falcone's post struck me as very odd. It had formatted headings and was written in very formal language. His accusations of you were largely based on not getting your jokes. The style behind it would have to be affected intentionally. A very serious player would use formal language and not get some jokes. A player who is
trying
to be very serious would use formal headings and get no jokes. I FOSed, because rigid seriousness of that type is sometimes used to hide scummy actions. (IMO, Vollkan does this all the time)
Apparently her reasoning for her FoS has to do with the fact that usage of formatted headings and structure is scummy because Vivian is familiar with this type of play coming from a vollkan-scum. I find this argument very flawed for a number of reasons, and I'm really surprised that a player of NabNab's calabre would even use it as a reason to FoS someone. Just because you find this type of play in a vollkan-scum doesn't necessarily mean this tell goes across the board to every single player. I would think Vivian would have maybe meta-gamed Falcone a bit to try and see if this formality stuff is more consistent with a Falcone-scum play rather than town but Vivian did no such thing. To actually throw out a formal FoS for it just seems like Vivian was trying to cast suspicion onto Falcone for very weak reasons hoping something might catch wind and be taken further.
Also, I find this play really out-of-character from Vivian's overall play. My feeling about her play so far leads me to believe that she's played very cautiously and has tried to weigh possibilities to not jump to conclusions so suddenly. When I presented my case on ThAdmiral for example, Vivian actually referenced a previous game that she had been in with ThAdmiral as NabNab so that
should
indicate that she does in fact believe in meta-gaming's usefulness. To throw out an FoS without doing the proper homework beforehand seems really awful to me.
Moving on.
Vivian Darkblaam, [b][url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1169079#1169079]in Post 155[/url][/b], wrote:@farside: I'll accept you being suspicious of somebody for not scumhunting, but why DBE? Why on page 5? Why after that post?
I think it is pretty obvious that you're backpedaling (one word, one "d"), but I usually think backpaddling hard enough to rock the boat is not something scum often do. Farsidescum would have backed entirely off of DBE when challenged by Falcone. Arguing the point to a nub is something people do when they've actually made up their minds about something, not when they're pretending to have.
I'll bite my tongue on Mariyta for the time being, but let it be known that the clock is ticking.
I dislike this post for a number of reasons.
1) Vivian tries to explain away farside's actions by providing thoughts on what she feels a farside-scum would be likely to do in this situation with DBE ("Farsidescum would have backed entirely off when challenged by Falcone"). My issue with this though is prior to this Vivian-explanation,
farside22 did exactly what Vivian said farside would do as scum in her Post 129. Why exactly did Vivian still use this point to defend farside22's actions when farside pretty clearly did back off the point she had with DBE and switched her vote over to Mariyta? Yes, farside22 did still place an "IGMEOY" on DBE after switching her vote, but I still think 129 can be considered a back-off since it practically had to be forced out of her.
2) The whole "clock is ticking stuff" with Mariyta. Here was Vivian's explanation to this point that I brought up previously:
Vivian Darkblaam wrote:-I tend to extend the benefit of the doubt to poor or infrequent players (try reading the section midway through 458 where I coin the term "Villiage Idiot") more than most and sometimes more than I should. My main goal in saying that the "clock is ticking" to Mari was to get her to say something of significance. I didn't want to should "lurker!" because that probably would not have promoted participation. When Mari did produce the post you disected, I saw that she was pretty much lost at sea when it came to analysis. Lots of non-sequiters and vague generalizations. Now we can see that this was just her attempt at being scummy, but at the time it kind of just made me sigh.
Why do I find this explanation so dubious? Because Vivian clearly
wasn't
extending the benefit of the doubt to "poor or infrequent players" when she ended up voting for DarlaBlueEyes
here. DarlaBlueEyes was more clearly a newbie player when compared to Mariyta. You can look at the "Join Dates" for proof. Mariyta's been on this site for two years now while Darla just got here this year. If anyone deserved the benefit of the doubt, it would be DBE rather than Mariyta. Even FaerieLord who Vivian also ended up voting later on during Day 1 might have deserved more benefit of the doubt than Mariyta but again, she chose not to extend this to him either. I don't think it's a coincidence that Mariyta ended up being the scum while DBE and FL ended up being town.
Continuing. We have this:
Vivian Darkblaam, in Post 239, wrote:I'll break my scumlist into players I suspect for their content and players I suspect for their lack of content.
Both lists go from most scummy to least scummy.
The releative scuminess of players on different lists is up in the air.
this:
[quote="Vivian Darkblaam, in Post 239 who had farside at the top of her suspicions "content suspicions list","]For their content:
-Farside: She has a bit of a point on DBE (see below), but Falcone's trumps hers. Her accusations of Darla are opportunisitc and completely outside the bounds of natural scumhunting. When someone puts a player's
random vote
in their case, you know something's up.[/quote]
this:
[quote="Vivian Darkblaam, in Post 239 who had FL listed as number 3 in his "lack of content" list,"]For their lack of content:
-FaerieLord: I barely even notice she's here. A quick isolation just shows a lot of fluff. That's not good.[/quote]
and then this:
Vivian Darkblaam, in Post 239, wrote:I wouldn't be comfortable answering the "insta-lynch" question right now as so many of the players I'm eyeing I have insufficient information on. I could pick Farside right now, but what do I do if FL responds particuarlly scummily to this?
Unvote; Vote: FaerieLord
Why vote for person number 3 in your "lack of content" list rather than say person number 1 on your "content list" or even person number 1 on your "lack of content" list? Also of note, Vivian again mentions the "clock is ticking" stuff. More coaching?
Vivian Darkblaam, in Post 347, wrote:Spacecase's claim seems poorly thought-out in the extreme. My guess: he's a cult-leader of some sort. Independent research has led me to believe that there is no image to post, but I could be wrong.
This post seems like a really odd explanation for Spacecase's claim. Again, the guy was pretty clearly new to the game of Mafia. Do you really think he would go out on a limb as a newbie player and claim something off the wall like that as a cult leader? This feels more like you realize there was still a chance Spacecase could be lynched and you were trying to discredit his mason claim by coming up with an imaginative reason mentioned above.
Anyway, moving on to Day 2, Vivian seemed to have some real life stuff going on and was unable to post much. The little she did post didn't really sway me in either direction with regard to her alignment but there were some noteworthy comments.
I could see scum or town making a statement like the above in normal circumstances but considering the fact that Vivian herself
had
farside22 listed at the top of her suspicions list for her content, I really wouldn't expect Vivian to try and discredit Falcone's case in this manner unless she had underlying reasons to do so (as farside's scum buddy).
Moving on.
Vivian Darkblaam, [b][url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1233554#1233554]in Post 584[/url][/b], wrote:Incognito wrote:
What is your take on his play then in that game when compared to this one?
It's difficult to say. I found Admiral off-and-on scummy through most of that game (despite the fact that he was town), and reading the scattered accusations I made (and some of his posts too), I remember that it was because he was working a lot of vieled aggression (pushing many wagons, making low-key attacks). Compare that to his general fear of attacking in this game, and you get quite a contrast.
This, however, means little. It's been over a year since that game, and it's very possible Admiral's play has undergone changes (mine certainly has). Additionally, a playstyle that is different from one that is documented town is not necessarily scummy.
I still need to to some more consideration of point and counterpoint in this game (and I think others do too). One thing I'm seeing is that the two main parts of Incognito's case are in almost direct opposition:
Part A: Admiral is concerned about setting a precedent for his actions
Part B: Admiral's vote for DBE came out of the blue
This isn't a malicious inconsistency, but it makes me suspect pigeonholing (See: CKD in the game I linked; Farside on DBE)
I specifically questioned Vivian about her take on Admiral's play and while she touched on a few things and seemed to explain her thought process for thinking the way she did, I never got the impression that she leaned one way or the other on ThAdmiral. This could be seen as either scummy or as town trying to look at all the facts in hand before jumping to conclusions.
Then of course we ended the day with farside22's hammer of ThAdmiral, so I never really got a feel for who in particular Vivian was most suspicious of or anything. She floated a bunch of Day 2 ideas but nothing really seemed too solid to me.
Day 3 Vivian made a few responses to questions I had for her and commented a bit on the farside22 stuff that was going on.
Here Vivian still doesn't really lean one way or the other on farside22. And since I think Vivian is scum it looks like she's attempting to slowly drift towards possible bus-mode with respect to farside22.
Then finally we get this:
Vivian Darkblaam, [b][url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1246039#1246039]in Post 710[/url][/b], wrote:Ich bin eine Vagina.
Hmm... the issue of win conditions seems to have been completely glossed over in this setup. On the off-chance that farside is a Jester, I would want at least a little bit of info in trying to figure out if lynching her would lose us the game.
Mod:
Can you do aything to clear this up?
Also, Farside's defence of herself yesterday was far to competent/thorough to belong to a jester. Jesters make 524, not 482.
Vote: farside22
After claiming "Vagina" Vivian goes ahead and places the L-1 vote on farside22 when it was mentioned that more things should be discussed and it was pretty apparent that farside22 was caught scum who was planning on self-hammering to completely shut out any additional information. There was a specific reason I chose to unvote
in my 640 after forbiddanlight placed the L-1 vote on farside22. To me it looks like Vivian snuck this vote on there to at least try and make herself look somewhat good the next day by having a hand in the scum's lynch and to allow farside22 to self-hammer so that no further information can be had. I really can't think of any pro-town reason for Vivian to place the vote when she did.
So in short, I think Vivian is scum, and I'd be happy to see her lynched today. My overall impression of her play is that it's been very cautious, guarded, and calculating, which is exactly the type of play I would expect to come from experienced scum. I know NabakovNabakov is a solid player as town and some of the stances he took in this game just strike me as bizarre/scummy, so I really don't think he's town here for the above-mentioned reasons.
And now I expect to get into a posting war.
oh wait I havn't done that.....I know I have a higher pain threshold than most males because my tattoo artist told me lol.