Mini 671 - Dwarf Fortress - Game Over!

[andersonw]

I do hereby confirm that I may or may not have read the rules.

[andersonw]

That game looks hardcore...

Vote: Timeater

Btw, do you eat people named Tim, our did you already eat people named Time? Either way, that's pretty disgusting.

[andersonw]

I don't believe that the first day is just waiting around until scum screws up, we should be "seeking out" the scum. However, it is also definitely not lynching someone randomly and hoping to get lucky.

Tuberkulos:
There's a couple of threads in the mafia discussion forum that have info about first days, and reading them could help with some of the misconceptions of day 1. Here's one
Also, please explain your vote. Did you vote iLord because he voted you?

Why are there 3 votes on roffman, is it because of his early wagon?

If you read what's happened, it seems clear that the first two votes on roffman were pretty much joke votes, and then Tuberkulos "joined" the wagon, but to me, it doesn't seem like much of a scumtell since he seems sincere about it (yes, this is a gut feeling).

[andersonw]

iLord already had 2 votes before you voted for him, Tuberkulos, so that last point is invalid.

iLord had 0 votes, wasn't Tuberkulos's was the first vote on iLord?

iLord is at L-2

Umm... it's 7 to lynch, so even if iLord had 2 votes and Tuberkulos voted for him, it would still be L-4.

Therefore, I'd shoot for having as much discussion (read: chaos and pointing fingers) as possible the first day and avoid ending it too soon. This way we at least get plenty of information.

I agree with this, though (but the discussion doesn't need to be all chaos and pointing fingers).


Also, iLord seems to be quite a bit more offensive than Tuberkulos right now.


@Tuberkulos: please answer my question I stated in my last post: why did you vote for iLord, was it because he voted for you?
Another question: Do you think early bandwagons are a good thing?
Also, responding to your post 48, like Ramus said, we shouldn't lynch someone quick on day 1, since we can get discussion that can help on future days.

@roffman: Do you agree with iLord that you were "eager to start the day"?

@iLord: from my point of view, roffman actually likes early bandwagons, based on his posts so far.

[andersonw]

Newbies haven't had the caution and conventions stamped into them yet, therefore any "slip" might not be a slip, any scum-tell might not be a scum-tell.

But apparently he's played online before, so I guess this isn't relevent.

I think this is a reasonable explanation for your post 52, but I agree with Pesco that you shouldn't judge someone just because they have a newbie title. And there is such thing as someone "playing the newbie card".

Roffman is totally scum. How do I know? I'm pyschic.

Great job spelling "psychic" right.


iLord: waiting for you to respond to previous posts.
Also, what is your definition of a "bandwagon"?

[andersonw]

iLord: So, do you think roffman was bandwagoning when he also voted for Timeater at the beginning? Based on your definition of a bandwagon, roffman was going along with me when he voted for Timeater, so would that be a bandwagon? Please explain.
Also, I'll respond to your post 67 tomorrow (have too much homework tonight, and my brain is fried from writing like 3 essays)

Ramus: What is your stance on early bandwagons? You said before that they end the day early, but to me, that's not true since a bandwagon is not equal to a lynch.

[andersonw]

Timeater, I (and the majority of the people in this game) would have probably said the same thing in roffman's case, since you were

very

strongly implying that you have barely read the thread (you even added a "hehe" to the end of that sentence). The tone of your last post seems like you tried to set a trap, but a trap that both scum and town would fall into is pretty much useless. That deserves a

Slight FoS:Timeater

iLord: First, I want to say that in post 47, you said that roffman's "bandwagoning" wasn't a bandwagon, he was just eager to start the day. Then, in post 74, you said that it was a bandwagon. Please explain.

Also, the entire point of your argument seems to be that Tuberkulos was opportunistic to lynch a random townie, but to me, it seemed like any other random vote. He has also already explained that it was a random vote, but you're still pushing the case. Could you explain why (in detail) Tuberkulos's vote wasn't random?
[non-gamerelated]why do you put asdfasdf at the beginning of all your posts?[/non-gamerelated]

Tuberkulos: Just wondering, do you still go by what you said in post 42? Because in that post, you said "let's just hope for a lucky hit", but then in post 78 you said "I want a discussion".

[andersonw]

Just want to get this straightened out first, will post more later, when I've read what just happened in more detail.

iLord: First, I want to say that in post 47, you said that roffman's "bandwagoning" wasn't a bandwagon, he was just eager to start the day. Then, in post 74, you said that it was a bandwagon. Please explain.

Eager to start the day doesn't mean it's not a bandwagon.

Also, the entire point of your argument seems to be that Tuberkulos was opportunistic to lynch a random townie, but to me, it seemed like any other random vote. He has also already explained that it was a random vote, but you're still pushing the case. Could you explain why (in detail) Tuberkulos's vote wasn't random?

I didn't vote him for any particular reason. He did however indeed want an early wagon. But as he said himself, the first day is often just a "bandwagon-day". Let's just hope for a lucky hit.

Lucky Hit =/= random vote.

Lucky Hit = Random Wagon = Bad for town.

Since you're so good at math !

1. You said before that it was a "joke bandwagon", so you were implying that it wasn't a real bandwagon in that post.

2. I never said that third quote...

[andersonw]

@ Andersnw: What's your reasons for having your vote on Timeater? If I haven't missed something, you haven't unvoted a single time, right?

Yeah, I never unrandom-voted.

Okay, the next few posts I make are probably going to be big, since I finally have some time to write stuff up (I had three school projects due this week)

[andersonw]

Comments on current and previous posts:

Sometimes a lynch is reached just by random votes. This is

not

a good thing, but

sometimes

necessary. If no lynch is reached, we are still on sqaure one, with one town dead by day two. If a lynched is reached however, we are one or two men short, but atleast we are on sqaure two, with much more to analyze and discuss.

I don't agree with this, since if there is a completely random lynch, no information can be gained from it (except the people that were on the lynch, but if it was random, it doesn't say much about those people). We should never have a random lynch in any game.

Using ending the random phase as an excuse to vote is extremely scummy - I've seen many a scum do that.

I don't get how it is scummy, since if scum wanted to vote someone, wouldn't they use the random phase (not ending the random phase) as an excuse to vote? Also, I don't get what is the point of this statement, since I don't really see how it applies to Tuberkulos.

- Nicely rounded off with a dose of OMGUS in post 44. Good show.

I think Tuberkulos already explained his vote pretty thoroughly, and how it was not OMGUS.

Roffman&Cyberbob could be a likely scumteam, considering in post 91 he manages to absolve Roffman, attack me, agree with Roffman, and attack Tuber, attack Mariyta. That just doesn't sit right with me.

I don't know if I agree with your statement, but the reasoning behind this isn't right, because just because he thinks roffman is town doesn't mean that he's scum with him. I also don't get your "absolve Roffman" because he never was under much suspicion in the first place.



On the cyberbob-timeater argument: I'm not going to make an opinion on it, but just wanted to say that cyberbob was the first to "start" the insults, with this:

I can't quite decide whether you're deliberately misrepresenting me so much or whether you really are that stupid.

The post by timeater before that tried to be rational (sort of), but did not have any personal attacks. Although, his posts after that did.



iLord, please respond to this, since we cleared up the confusion of me not saying that quote

Also, the entire point of your argument seems to be that Tuberkulos was opportunistic to lynch a random townie, but to me, it seemed like any other random vote. He has also already explained that it was a random vote, but you're still pushing the case. Could you explain why (in detail) Tuberkulos's vote wasn't random?

@Timeater: about your trap, it seemed like you thought roffman was suspicious just because he voted you, because other people also disliked the idea but didn't vote for you, and you didn't comment much on them...

More coming later, after I finish a health assignment.

[andersonw]

Echoing what cyberbob just said, sorry for not posting here yesterday, I was caught up with marathon day.

I don't like how knight of cydonia said "Hammer now please. No more discussion needed here", since there were still a few things that could have used clearing up, and discussion is always good (and Coheed didn't answer iLord's question either). Normally, scum would want a quick hammer to prevent the town from getting more discussion in.

FoS: Knight of Cydonia

. Same thing for iLord and Cyberbob.

Although, I agree that Coheed is probably scum, especially since he just seems to be giving up the game, but we could have still asked for a defense and might have gotten more information.

[andersonw]

@AW: What type of information do you think we could've gleamed?

Right now, I'm about 80% sure that he's scum, and if he gave a defense that was pretty bad, it would have given a chance to confirm his scumminess. If his defense was good, we could have had more discussion about whether or not he was scum.

Anyways, do you think one of us should PM Claus to tell a lynch happened?

[andersonw]

Well, if he turns out to be town, let this serve as another example of "don't try to outguess the mod".

[andersonw]

@AW: It's not only the kobold part, but the role-thief part as well. It's just as much guessing the mod as claim analysis that lead us to his lynch.

Yes, but a bunch of people included "being a kobold" as a main reason for voting Coheed, not just "being a role-thief".
Well, we won't know what his alignment is until the mod comes, so let's not jump to conclusions too quickly.

When did we try to out guess the mod?

See above. Some people (especially Cyberbob) voted Coheed mainly because he was a kobold.

[andersonw]

I'm not going to give too much of my opinions on Timeater vs. everyone else thing yet, going to put some objective comments out there first.

Timeater: First, don't quote ongoing games.

You fool, thats exactly what WE DONT WANT.

I don't get this statement. Are you saying that you want the scum to have a night kill? And I highly doubt there is a SK in this game because there was only one night kill (although it is possible something could have happened, it's very unlikely).

Lol, you're so condescending.
<snip>
And if you actually read my recent posts, I address KoC directly and answer his post. You really arent helping yourself Pesco by making such a weak attack post. You'll have to do better than that.

I find the last part of your post very condescending to Pesco also (and I agree with other people that some other posts, like 255, are also condescending).

Quit being so dense and realize that if I just came out and said what you wanted me to, that would make a bunch of other people targets.

I really don't get how it would make a bunch of other people targets. Could you explain (unless if it's role-related)?

@Pesco - as for me "finding Roffman suspicious before the game got started" I was just messing around. Its odd that this has turned into what it is so far.

You seemed pretty serious with the "trap" that you set, it didn't seem like messing around to me.

KoC:

This only confirms for me that you were trying to WIFOM on the Cyberbob NK to get anyone who attacked you for a needless pre-emptive defence lynched.

I agree that it was WIFOM when Timeater said that statement, but I don't think that you can just immediately assume one side of the WIFOM because of one thing that Tim said.

I'm not mourning Cyberbob at all. In fact, I'm glad he's gone

You are glad a pro-town is dead?

Vote Timeater

Do you really think he meant the statement that way? It looked like that it was implied that he was glad because Cyberbob and him got into a flame war back in the game.

I'm 80% sure Roffman isn't scum at this point.

Unvote for now.

Wow, that was the quickest de-OMGUS I've seen in a while.

Umm... if I recall correctly, Timeater never voted for Roffman today. And Roffman never voted for anyone. So I don't see how that's an OMGUS.


reborn and iLord: please post something soon.

[andersonw]

Hey, KoC, could you respond to my three comments in my previous post?

[andersonw]

It's kind of obvious who to vote for now...

VOTE: KOC

More analysis later after I finish a bunch of my homework, a PBPA might be coming.

Pesco47: Do you think sekinj is a better lynch than KOC right now? Why?

[andersonw]

andersonw - do you want to put any actual evidence or reasoning behind that vote, or are you jsut going to follow Timeater?

More analysis later after I finish a bunch of my homework, a PBPA might be coming.

Also, just because I vote you, that implies I'm following Timeater? Not seeing the connection.

Since no-one here has babies, I assume, CoCam is a kobold. His claim is believable, and scum. Hammer now please. No more discussion needed here.

Tries to stop day 1 discussion, and seems to be 100% sure that he's scum. And I was going to ask iLord some more questions too

Currently interesting me are sekinj's case agaisnt IL (because it kinda makes sense, but it's maybe slightly reaching)

Quietly puts suspicion on iLord by saying it "kinda makes sense".

it seems like he's establishing something so that if people come back to it, he can just say "WTF Why didn't you read this fool" as claim that is evidence against anyone accusing him.

That's a pretty big logical jump to make, it's a bit of a stretch to automatically assume he would do that.

I'm not mourning Cyberbob at all. In fact, I'm glad he's gone

You are glad a pro-town is dead?

*facepalm*

This only confirms for me that you were trying to WIFOM on the Cyberbob NK to get anyone who attacked you for a needless pre-emptive defence lynched.

Again, a pretty big logical jump. I don't know if a pre-emptive defense is good or bad, but using it to get someone lynched is a bit of overkill.

I'll add everything I wrote in post 277 to my PBPA.

Anderson - your last post was just a bunch of statements against quoted posts of mine. There are no questions there.

True, there are no questions, but if I make comments saying that what you said wasn't exactly true, you should respond to them.

No, that's not what sekinj said at all.
She didn't say she thinks you're town - she thinks your play is anti-town. At no point has sekinj said "Timeater is town, but annoying, so lets lynch plz, kthnxbai".
Tim's massive misrep of sekinj + iLord's chainsawing = scum pair?

And now trying to put suspicion on iLord. Also, why did you answer part of iLord's post for sekinj?

unvote for now until I can think about things and decide. Roffman is overtaking Timeater, but I'm still wary of him as well.

Before this post, you never had a single suspicion of roffman and seemed like you were intent on getting Timeater lynched, and suddenly you're like "hmmm I think I will put roffman at L-1 because he suddenly seems more scummy than Timeater."

The fact that roffman's role was written with green, when every other role have been in blue indicates that it was something special/different with it.

Yes, I don't understand this either.

Mod:

Could you clarify this, if it doesn't give anything away about the setup?

/*
* Sorry, I missed this question - the answer is in a comments a few posts ahead.
*/

[andersonw]

Anderson - pretty much all of your so-called "evidence" against me is a huge pile of jumping to conclusions based on assuming I'm scum, then working backwards from that. If I assumed you were scum, I could go back and make all of your posts look scummy as well.

Okay, so you responded to 2 of my points, and left the other 4 or so behind. Could you say what's wrong about those, if you're so sure that my evidence is wrong?

Calling me out for saying "CoCam must be scum as kobold?" Well, that makes quite a few others scum as well then.

I don't find you scummy for explicitly saying that "CoCam must be scum as kobold", but you deliberately said that you wanted to stop discussion and end the day right there.

I never had any interest in Roffman? Wow, you mist be an Insane Min Reader, then. Not writing about something =/= not thinking about it. As I stated, and you conveniently ignored, I found the fact that Roffman attacked Timeater, after previously stating he would have been happy to be lynched to prove Tim's innocence/lack thereof, to be a massive u-turn and quite scummy.

Where did you post that? I can't seem to find it. Don't say that you were thinking about it, because you're right, I'm not a mind reader.

I was waiting for Roffman to give a full description of what his role entailed before asking for someone else to hammer or not, so Anderson and Timeater saying I deliberately hammered him myself is a pile of crap. If I didn't know that they would jump on it and call it OMGUS (despite Timeater being more guilty of it, and Anderson jumping onto the wagon straight away after Tim), I would call them out as a scum pair.

Where did I say that you deliberately hammered Roffman? Jumping to conclusions pretty quickly, eh?
Anyways, I'm now about 80-90 percent sure that you're scum.


I'm also fairly sure that Pesco is also scum, based on his/her connections to KoC and how they have been generally defending each other. If you want, I'll give you a PBPA on that, too.

I don't think massclaim is a good idea right now, we should be lynching KoC/Pesco first, and also the mod probably gave the scum safeclaims anyways. I'm not an expert on them, though, so I'll go try reading up on massclaims in the MD forum.

[andersonw]

Sigh. It's LYLO. We do a massclaim.

Is this like some standard procedure in games? Always massclaim in LyLo? Could you give me some reasoning why it's a good idea? (be more specific than "we might catch scum")
If you give good reasoning, I'll be happy to go with a massclaim.

[andersonw]

I'll go with the massclaim, but I'd like reborn to answer the question first, too.
Btw,

Strong FoS: KoC

for still not responding to my post 423, even though you probably already saw it.
And another

FoS: KoC

for changing his mind about the massclaim so quickly, even with the explanation, it's a pretty scummy action. It seems like once you saw the majority of people wanting a massclaim, you said you didn't want one anymore.

Strong FoS: Pesco

for pretending to be 100% sure that reborn is scum and saying "reborn hasn't been scumhunting" in about 5 posts. Pesco hasn't really done much scumhunting, too, except for attacking reborn and saying "I'm town, you can't even make a good case on me".

Also,

FoS: reborn

, Pesco does have a point, and you're ignoring it.

[andersonw]

Onto my claim, I am Amost Othosstinthad, Weaponsmith. My ability will take us out of LyLo even if we lynch a townie today. Bring on the misrepresentation.

I'm sorry, but there's no way this is possible. If we lynch a townie today, either 1.) 2 scums have to be killed immediately or 2.) 2 townies have to be resurrected. If you're wondering why I'm saying 2, that's because you said it will "take us out of LyLo", not "leave us in LyLo".
Such a role like this is way too overpowered.
I will probably vote you now after KoC responds to my last post, and Timeater says something, although I still wouldn't mind lynching KoC.
Also, this makes reborn look a lot better to me, because Pesco has been attacking him, and it definitely doesn't seem like distancing.

@Ramus: KoC didn't pick yet, why did you claim?

[andersonw]

If he/she was a governor, we would still be in LyLo if a townie was lynched. Also, we're probably going to lynch scum today anyways, and it would be bad if a scum lynch was pardoned.

[andersonw]

Pesco, I'm not buying that claim. The way you put it, you are implying that the town will at least tie and we will all be happy (why did you even put the bit about another site where you and Ramus play? it sounds like an appeal to emotion to me), and you are not taking into account the fact that if you were town, the scum would NK you immediately.

Also, I'm more sure than ever now of KoC and Pesco being scumpairs because of their attempt at distancing in the past few posts, like this:

This makes me feel all icky and worried. I doubt it's a town win if we don't lynch Pesco.

For the past few pages, you have never found Pesco suspicious at all and even slightly defended Pesco sometimes, and suddenly, you feel that Pesco is scum?

And what's up with the serial killer comment? I'm sorry, but this makes no sense, how will scum not be able to win if an SK is alive? If there were 2 scum and 1 SK, obviously the scum would win.

And you still haven't responded to the post I already made two references to before this one.

So, my two sure scum are Pesco and KoC.

Claiming was inevitable, it was going to happen, so heck, might as well now.

This logic is kind of like, "we are all going to die at the end of our lives, so I might as well just suicide now". The order of claiming can make a big difference in the outcome of the game.

FoS: Ramus

Timeater, looking forward to your next post.

[andersonw]

And yeah, Andersonw hasn't been a team player for not claiming.

Ramus gets to pick who claims next.

Anyways, another important rule of mafia I just remembered: All claimed third-party rules must be lynched no matter what. Why? Akatsuki mafia (which I was part of) is a good example of this. It was Claus who claimed third-party in that game and eventually won because we all believed him (except for me but no one paid attention to me that game)

To sum my thoughts up: We must lynch Pesco (who is very likely scum), and KoC is scum.
Still thinking who the third scum could be, if there are three.

[andersonw]

Okay.
I'm Kumil Ekurudil, and I'm a mason.
Not a regular mason, but I'm a one-way mason.
I can't talk at night, but I know that one person is innocent, and that person doesn't know anything about me (obviously not going to say who it is, it would just paint a target on his/her back).

I will tell you that the person I know is innocent is not KoC or Pesco, though, so that will definitely help narrow it down.

Thank you for completely changing my point there. Assuming I'm scum, it'd be best for me to wait until last so that I can claim last. This makes me a lot safer since I will know no one has the role I claim (after all, everyone looks to have an unique role, vanilla or not). However, by going first, I run the risk of claiming a role that someone else might have, getting me lynched. By going first, I was hoping to prove to be a townie.

Thanks for being sarcastic...
My point was that people can't just claim in any order, and the order of claiming can change the outcome of the game.

The rest of your post is heavily laden with laundering.

Laundering? Please explain.

[andersonw]

Also, sorry Tuberkulos, didn't see your claim in post 525 before making post 540.

[andersonw]

@anderson - but it's not hard to figure out who it is though....

I wouldn't be too sure of this, I tried to make it not too obvious.

@reborn - nice move...afterall the only way to avoid a later wagon on you is to turn the current one into a bus.

I don't quite understand this statement. Are you saying that there might be a wagon on reborn today? And what's your definition of a "bus"?

1. The point of being a mason (role) is that you can communicate. Calling it a one way thing is very suspiscious. Still reading you as scum, you could just point at any townie and everything you claim would still be true. You can't communicate with them and they don't know you, a typical scum/townie relationship.

2. Unless you can point out your 'mason-buddy', this claim is perfectly viable as a scum claim to clear your partners. Confirmed players put more power in town's hands, which you are reluctant to do.

1. Not necessarily, masons don't always have to communicate, that's just one part of a normal mason. And what do you mean by "point at any townie"? How do I know who's town (besides that one person, of course)?

2. Don't fish.
Confirmed players are perfect targets for NKs. Also, you said that I was reluctant to confirm someone and that "confirmed players put more power in town's hands", so does that mean that you believe whoever I said was innocent would be confirmed? (i.e. you slipped).
Oh, and look at this thread I found: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7535

I'm calling laundering because you've done more in trying to get me lynched than what you are doing about KoC and yet don't move your vote. Naturally that's what you'd try and do when I'm such an obstacle to scum winning.

I already made a big post about KoC, yet he's ignoring it, so that's why I'm not making any more. If he responds to all of it, I would gladly respond to his defense.
Also, if you were such an obstacle, I would try to lynch you, and therefore vote for you. Not just say bad stuff about you.
And, to me, that's not the definition of laundering. What do you think "laundering " means?


Some thinking out loud: If KoC is lynched and turns up mafia, that would be a big plus for reborn since reborn was basically the only person KoC attacked (and has only recently began to be ever so slightly suspicious of Pesco aka distancing).

[andersonw]

Hey, KoC, remember that post I made about 5 days ago and referenced it about 4 times and you haven't responded to yet?

This seems to me like a slip on anderson's part, I think anderson knows there are three scum.

Ummm... "Still thinking who the third scum could be,

if there are three

". I also highly doubt that there are only 2 scum in this game, especially with 4 power roles.
And stop being a hypocrite, you say at the end of your post that reborn, Tim, and I are all scum. Guess how many people that is?

I definitely don't believe his Mason claim, either: simply because, rather conveniently, it can't be proved in any way other than by lynching someone at his behest:

I definitely don't believe your vanilla townie claim, either: simply because, rather conveniently, it can't be proved in any way other than by lynching you.
[sarcasm]Actually, that means I don't believe anyone's claim, because no one can be proved unless we lynch them! [/sarcasm]
And what do you mean by "lynching someone at his behest"? I wouldn't want to lynch a person that I know to be innocent...

if he's scum, he just picks randomly, and gets a free town lynch,

How would saying someone is innocent get a free town lynch?

and if he's town, which I find unlikely, only the scum benefit, because they get a nice easy town lynch, and a Mason all on his lonesome to NK without a problem.

How would the scum get an easy town lynch because of me? I seriously don't get your thinking.

End blatant wagoning today! Become part of the solution! Vote reborn, for obv scum with Tim and anderson!

*facepalm*

[andersonw]

@ Andersonw: What's a better NK? A player that prevents scum from winning or a confirmed townie (most probably vanilla going by the claims)?

A confirmed townie, because there is no player that prevents scum from winning (I wouldn't mind if you NKed yourself though).

Hypothetically, if such a role were to exist, it's obvious that the answer is a player that prevents scum from winning, so I don't even get why you asked that question. What was the point of your question?
If you seriously were neutral and wanted the town to win, you wouldn't try to stand out to the scum with this kind of post saying, "I'm the best night kill!"

[andersonw]

Pesco, could you answer the questions that I had for you in my past 2 posts?

It's fine to WIFOM scum with such things.

It's not WIFOM, it's like being a claimed cop and saying "hey scum, don't forget, I'm the cop, remember to kill me tonight or else I'll get another investigation".

[andersonw]

@ Andersonw: What's a better NK? A player that prevents scum from winning or a confirmed townie (most probably vanilla going by the claims)?

What was the point of this question?

I think the hammerer is a third party role, possibly another part of Pesco's role.

Yeah, this logic is kind of bad, I agree with Ramus here.



Timeater: Please make a post soon, then we can lynch KoC and Pesco.

To everyone: I'm repeating that I want to make sure no one forgets that claimed third-party roles must be lynched. I would be really mad if everyone believes Pesco's claim and the town lost, just like in Akatsuki.

[andersonw]

That's pretty surprising, that there are probably only two scum.

And sorry KoC, nothing personal here either.

I'll have to do a reread, maybe I'll say who my confirmed innocent is (or possibly, was).

[andersonw]

It was reborn.

I kept trying to hint at him by saying stuff like "reborn will be confirmed if KoC turns up scum", since I was so sure that KoC was scum.

[andersonw]

Sorry for not posting, need to catch up with schoolwork.
As for a "real" claim, I stand by what I said yesterday.

A question for Pesco: Any reason for not choosing to kill every night? If you really were what you claimed, it seems kind of unlikely that the only night you choose to kill, the mafia targets the exact same person or you.

[andersonw]

well, I was starting to suspect tub and ramus for how they ganged up on you and seemed to want you dead, no matter if that wasn't a smart move for town.

but then anderson came in and did almost the same thing...

What made me think Pesco was so sure scum yesterday was his claim of inhibitor-survivor, that made absolutely no sense to me at all (and also him/her and KoC generally being not as suspicious and slightly defending each other, but this point is gone now). I didn't want Pesco lynched because I thought it wasn't a smart move for the town, I wanted Pesco lynched because I was almost sure of a scum flip.


More questions for Pesco:
In your post 645, what do you mean by "I no longer have kill info"? Sorry if you already explained this before, I did a quick search and didn't find it.
Also, do you find it unlikely that two of your kills failed?

[andersonw]

[offtopic]Pesco, I'm just going to assume you're a "him" from now on, it gets really annoying to type "him/her" all the time. Apologies if you're a "her".[/offtopic]

Andersonw, you express yourself in imperfect. Does this mean that you don't want Pesco lynched anymore?

I'm not as sure of lynching Pesco as I was yesterday, since his claim was absurd. However, he might be telling the truth about being SK. Near the beginning of the day, I began to sort of believe him, but now, I'm not that sure again, I don't know why, his latest posts give me a bad gut feeling and just don't make sense to me.
For example, this

I have the option of trying to kill anyone at night and maybe hitting scum successfully, which is what you'd be worried about.

You already said that you can't kill anymore, but now you're saying that you might hit scum successfully.

Also, Ramus brings up a good point: Pesco, what do you have to say about CoCam stealing from you, when most actions are at night?

I really want Timeater to post something, this game has slowed down quite a lot, but I'm not sure if this is going to happen.

[andersonw]

Sorry for not posting, but it appears that Pesco has just hammered.
Your flip-flop from RBT to Tuber is pretty suspicious, but it may as well be too late for the town if you're scum.

A quick post:

I'm glad you know we're at LyLo, because I didn't.

Yeah, if you've read the past few pages, you should know that there are 6 people left with 1 claimed SK. I'm pretty sure we're in LyLo too.

Just about everyone was lying in massclaim R1. Pretty much null-tells all round there.

Are you saying that what people claim is a null-tell?

Ramus's post 716 just seems really scummy to me, I'll comment it on later, cause I'm short on time now.

Finally, I think our scumpair is most likely either Pesco/sekinj or Ramus/either Tub or RBT. But I am probably wrong, as I was with KoC. I'll provide reasons tomorrow if we live.

[andersonw]

There's absolutely no reason why you can't post your reasons for thinking Ramus is scummy right now.

I'll comment it on later, cause I'm short on time now.

If you want me to explain the "short on time", I made that post in the ten minutes before I had to leave for school (after having a cold on Monday/Tuesday).

I'll explain more on the Ramus after I post in my other mafia games/finish homework.

[andersonw]

Well, Ramus making that vote makes me almost 100% sure of Ramus as scum now. Couldn't you have just waited until the mod made a votecount?

At least riceballtail has been able to put some forward, you two have just been back there the entire game doing nothing but weakly pointing fingers.

Weakly? Please explain.

[andersonw]

I agree with sekinj (that mafia is Ramus and SK is Pesco).

I might as well hammer now. Pesco, anything more you want to say?

[andersonw]

Here are my current thoughts (still thinking about who is the better lynch):
If we lynch Pesco, then we lose if Ramus is scum. There is a very slight possibility that Ramus is town, although I'm doubting that.
If we lynch Ramus and Pesco can kill (or is scum), we lose, otherwise, we win.

I would like Ramus to respond to sekinj's question, before I vote.

[andersonw]

Last thing to consider: if I really can't kill due to being disarmed, lynching scum gives the game to town. If my kill had been role-blocked each night by scum, then town has lost from the moment the day started. Lynching me is guaranteed to hit anti-town, but you lose. Lynching the scum, you will win because I can't force an endgame,

Or you chose not to kill.

[andersonw]

I would like it if we could all just vote town wins, but obviously that's not going to happen.

Ramus: what do you mean by a questionaire?

Anyways, here's one of Tuberkulos's posts near the beginning, where he listed his suspicions.

- Ramus. Haven't really got a good look of him yet. He definitely can't count.
...

- Pesco47. I would like to hear some reasonable reasons behind his vote on Timeater. Town or scum, could flip either way.

- Verbal. Is this guy playing?

What does everyone think about that?

Also, I doubt Pesco is scum because of Tuberkulos's extreme "hatred" or her yesterday. Ramus, what do you think of that?

[andersonw]

Hmm... I'm getting really paranoid about this game now (like, I'm really afraid of voting someone).

Okay, this is why I'm having a hard time:
I'm afraid to vote Pesco because Ramus might be scum and Pesco might be telling the truth.
I'm afraid to vote Ramus because he might be town and Pesco can still kill someone.
I'm currently leaning towards Ramus, it's just the only thing that bothers me is that there's a very small possibility that CoCam's action was during the day, and he managed to steal from Pesco. So, I'm fairly sure that the town has lost both ways.
I promise I'll make a vote either today or tomorrow, I want to take another look at Tuberkulo's posts.

[andersonw]

Actually, screw that.

Vote: Ramus

GG everyone.

[andersonw]

Well, the town was lost anyways.

I figured that it didn't matter who we lynched.

[andersonw]

Anyways, Claus, you also did a great job modding, and I think the game was pretty evenly balanced, although I'm not an expert on that.

And again, good game everyone, I'm sorry if we should have lynched Pesco, I actually thought that we had just a slightly bigger chance of winning if we lynched Ramus, since it was more possible for Pesco to have lost a NK than Ramus to be town (to me, those probabilities were like 10%>5%).

[andersonw]

For me, it was pretty much process of elimination (and gut)
We knew that Pesco was SK, and that a one-person scumgroup would be pointless. I was also fairly sure that sekinj was town, I had a town vibe on her since she replaced. Her post on iLord when she first replaced, as an example, stood out to me.

Also, Ramus, your post 716 was pretty scummy after we found out that Tuber was scum.

Hmm, good point there, but I'm still iffy on it since Tuber has actually done anything scummy. I'm not saying he's not scum, just that I haven't seen any scummy plays.

Like, this, you're saying that RBT has a good point, but you're still defending Tuber.

Anyway, despite the fact that Tuber seems like a scum possibility now, RBT has yet to convince me of his/her innocence. I withhold my vote for now.

Again, you still don't want to lynch Tuber, and you say that he might be scum.

It's not just you - you guys all had several chances to do it.

But once we lynched knight of cydonia, we were lost already, since it was 2 scum, 1 SK, 3 town. If only we lynched Pesco that day instead...although, we would probably have lynched KoC the next day and lost anyways.

[andersonw]

I did something very similar in this game here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8601

Stop reminding me

[andersonw]

Oh, and that game was like the only game where my scumdar was totally on!
(predicted the mafia and SK in my post 261! too bad no one believed me)