Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Frankly, I also think RTP has been a little TMI about Italiano. They have been calling him town since SUPER early, and there was a period there when that definitely was less than obvious.

Where did i call italiano town early?

[VP Baltar]

jk, I don't feel confident enough to call the scum team, but I do think an old man just meme'd you, and that must hurt.

[VP Baltar]

Frankly, I also think RTP has been a little TMI about Italiano. They have been calling him town since SUPER early, and there was a period there when that definitely was less than obvious.

Where did i call italiano town early?

weren't you like questioning Datisi over their italianio vote early?

I'm going from memory here, so it's possible I'm wrong.

[RLotus]

jk, I don't feel confident enough to call the scum team, but I do think an old man just meme'd you, and that must hurt.

Devastating

[VP Baltar]

Frankly, I also think RTP has been a little TMI about Italiano. They have been calling him town since SUPER early, and there was a period there when that definitely was less than obvious.

Where did i call italiano town early?

weren't you like questioning Datisi over their italianio vote early?

I'm going from memory here, so it's possible I'm wrong.

Although looking at your iso, you did question Italianio later on the "are you good at scum" debate.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

vp this bad faith push on me is frankly a bit odd bc based on my read of the game you do lean town here.
Im always going to be flip floppy d1 and like.i said earlier, stagnant reads are more scum indicative than ever changing ones.
I was more careful with italiano since he did say he was good at scum but since he said he is bad at lying i marked it as an easy read/able to get him to spew if I catch him.

I get off work in about an hour so ill finish up my trustfalls then and then ill go into detail about my GC /elements read.
I think at minimum those 2 are SvT. And the thread momentum towards me when I shifted up my reads is a bit of a confirmation to me.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

If you actually look at all my scumgames you can see i hard tunnel a certain set of reads until i have to change them, i
E. The votato push in bending, the username push in chosen mafia(open 799)

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I just think im like playing a really tryhard town meta this game bc of my switch up in playstyle to be less toxic and i do suggest those who have played with me consider that before yiu try to hardtunnel me based on a verbal slip up which i make regardless of alignment.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Also do you disagree with any of my analysis thus far, and with what? Anyone whos played with me KNOWS you have to catch me as scum based on my reads.

My reads as scum are super stagnant. This is not the case here.

I don't think GC is really scummy, so yes, your analysis doesn't look great.

What makes him towny here? I looked myself and i wasn't townreading him anymore.

[VP Baltar]

Also do you disagree with any of my analysis thus far, and with what? Anyone whos played with me KNOWS you have to catch me as scum based on my reads.

My reads as scum are super stagnant. This is not the case here.

I don't think GC is really scummy, so yes, your analysis doesn't look great.

What makes him towny here? I looked myself and i wasn't townreading him anymore.

I didn't get super scum vibes out of his fight with duchess. I can't say he has done a lot memorable since then, but I could say that about a lot of people (ahem, harumi).

[VP Baltar]

I just think im like playing a really tryhard town meta this game bc of my switch up in playstyle to be less toxic and i do suggest those who have played with me consider that before yiu try to hardtunnel me based on a verbal slip up which i make regardless of alignment.

But the fact you've completely changed your playstyle kind of negates your own meta, yeah?

And it doesn't read like just a verbal slippage, it's a completely wrong account of how you personally viewed the game. Accidents definitely happen. But you're asking me to believe that you couldn't remember if you had too many scum reads or town reads?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: RLotus for randomly voting.

also town

this serious?

Very.

Actually, maybe it was Harumi I was thinking of, not. Italiano.

You locktowned Harumi out of thin air.

[VP Baltar]

All this being said, if you have a legit case on GC, let's here it when you have a chance.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I just think im like playing a really tryhard town meta this game bc of my switch up in playstyle to be less toxic and i do suggest those who have played with me consider that before yiu try to hardtunnel me based on a verbal slip up which i make regardless of alignment.

But the fact you've completely changed your playstyle kind of negates your own meta, yeah?

And it doesn't read like just a verbal slippage, it's a completely wrong account of how you personally viewed the game. Accidents definitely happen. But you're asking me to believe that you couldn't remember if you had too many scum reads or town reads?

Yeah. Believe it or not my perspectivr changed on reread when i reset my view on the game

[VP Baltar]

Yeah. Believe it or not my perspectivr changed on reread when i reset my view on the game

Can you tell me more about this? What led to this reset and on who?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Its really as simple as "i did a reread after a couple days off from the game and had a new perspective and forgot about my old one"

Like i can't defend myself about being accused of lying abt something im being honest abt except to say "this is why this happened" which i already did .
Similar thing happened in datisis desperation day - ppl accused me of lying when i was being truthful.

[VP Baltar]

Its really as simple as "i did a reread after a couple days off from the game and had a new perspective and forgot about my old one"

Like i can't defend myself about being accused of lying abt something im being honest abt except to say "this is why this happened" which i already did .
Similar thing happened in datisis desperation day - ppl accused me of lying when i was being truthful.

Who specifically did your read shift from scum to town when you reread?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Its really as simple as "i did a reread after a couple days off from the game and had a new perspective and forgot about my old one"

Like i can't defend myself about being accused of lying abt something im being honest abt except to say "this is why this happened" which i already did .
Similar thing happened in datisis desperation day - ppl accused me of lying when i was being truthful.

Who specifically did your read shift from scum to town when you reread?

Italiano was the biggest one

I wanna put out that lunar/midway became a more solid townread there, even though I wasn't scumreading there.

Andres I started to townlean rather than nullscum

The latter part of the PL is more who i was more unsure of - thus why i was thinking my last solve read would be there

although BM started to ping me with their reaction to how i started to reeval, it felt very agenda based there.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm also home now - 2nd round of trust falls coming Soon TM

[RLotus]

What I'm noticing with VPB is that he seems to be sitting by and looking for mis elims where he can get them, whilst being non committal to his reads (except Dunn), as if to avoid looking bad when they flip town. At first it appeared like he was scum hunting, but his recent interactions with BM made his intentions more apparent.

Bring the smoke then, a vote puts about as much pressure on me as the bottom of a puddle.

Are you usually this combative as town? Or is this game pissing you off?

You call that combative?

As a reformed toxic player, I'm sure you wouldn't understand casual combativeness.

Yeah, I think Duchess had a bit of a bad faith response to GC

Taking advantage of Duchess v GC

@andres - what are your thoughts on IVD?

Gauging interest on IVD

Let me take a chill pill for a minute. I read your 306 Duchess. I’ll respond it to it later. Same with you @Datisi wrt 272

UNVOTE: Duchess

What if Italiano really is just scum here?

Taking advantage of mine/Datisi's push of Italiano

RTP, you still think Duchess is most likely scum here?

Can you hit me with the cliff notes case?

Taking advantage of RTP's scumread of Duchess

Italiano, can you respond specifically to this contradiction Lotus has highlighted around your own views of your scum ability?

Again with the Italiano push

Since we are slowly grinding to a standstill here without much original line of thought, I propose we just run Dunn to L-1 and force a claim.

This one is fair, since that is his main scumread.

Datisi, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on andres. (Did I ask that already?)

Gauging interest on andre

i'd do elements today if we could get a majority

I'm listening. What are you seeing?

Also is dunn at E-1 now?

Taking advantage of BM's Suspicion of elements

there is a distinct lack of progression in RLotus' ISO. Started with townreads on RTP and Duchess...and they remain the top 2 townreads. and has been only really focussed on Italiano since a few days ago.

I have been thinking this as well. It is very one dimensional.

Egging on BM's thoughts of me

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RTP

Down2Clown

Jumps on the RTP wagon, even though I don't think BM is even scumreading there (?)

As you can see, VPB is just kind of going wherever he can find a mis elim and not really where he believes scum are.

And two instances where it is apparent he is being non-committal (even though his only hard stance has been Dunn scum anyway)

In post 568, Datisi wrote:
@baltar, in your opinion, how's andres stock doing?

Stable at low levels. Not falling, but not rising either. I'm not entirely convinced these two exchanges show what I'd expect from a town mindset. On a gut level, it feels like some bullshitting explanations for stances.

My point is that your opinion on dunn doesn't logically flow.

Now, people say illogical things all the time. I certainly do. But if someone came in the thread and had Dunn listed near the top of their town reads list, you can believe I'd be suspicious of that person given how that is clashing with my viewpoint as a town member.

Do you think he could be tmi defending me here? (assume I'm town)

Sure, anything is possible. After that exchange, I don't think andres is for sure being scummy, but if I wanted to read him that way, it's certainly plausible.

Fence sitting andre

I hate that my guy says Italiano is town and every word out of his mouth is scummy.

I still want to yeet Dunn.

Fence sitting on Italiano

[RLotus]

Also I don't like that VPB's only hard stance is Dunn being scum, because he has been lurking, which is a super weak reason. Yet, every other slot he seems to be wishy washy on. Like his reasoning on Dunn is as weak as the slots that he is unsure about, so why is he being so heavy handed with Dunn??

[RLotus]

Another note. VPB and Datisi have a strange connection this game. The most obvious thing is that Datisi followed VPB both to Dunn and to RTP. I've also noticed reading through VPB a couple moments where VPB and Datisi were kind of just assuming each other's alignments, as if they already have knowledge of each other's alignments.

Idk if scum would really make it this obvious their connection to each other. I'm not going to jump to conclusions atm, but it is something interesting to note for later.

[RLotus]

Another note. VPB and Datisi have a strange connection this game. The most obvious thing is that Datisi followed VPB both to Dunn and to RTP. I've also noticed reading through VPB a couple moments where VPB and Datisi were kind of just assuming each other's alignments, as if they already have knowledge of each other's alignments.

Idk if scum would really make it this obvious their connection to each other. I'm not going to jump to conclusions atm, but it is something interesting to note for later.

Oh and they haven't really stated that they townread each other, so the explanation isn't easy as that

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Another note. VPB and Datisi have a strange connection this game. The most obvious thing is that Datisi followed VPB both to Dunn and to RTP. I've also noticed reading through VPB a couple moments where VPB and Datisi were kind of just assuming each other's alignments, as if they already have knowledge of each other's alignments.

Idk if scum would really make it this obvious their connection to each other. I'm not going to jump to conclusions atm, but it is something interesting to note for later.

this is sorta the place im also looking at if one of GC/Elements ends up being town.
ive basically PoEd it down to 5 names i think. (if i reread both VP/Datisi and they're town that makes it even better)

GC/Elements/BM/VP/Datisi <- this PoE may likely win the game here.

if im FoSing another masonry here imma be big mad tbh. and if i AM please do not assume im scum for it bc i will always fos masons who are bad at pretending uninformed bc yall always play like u got an agenda to save ur mason partners and it makes it harder for town to scumhunt.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

*cracks knuckles* lets get to work now.