Mini 650: Over

[afatchic]

yeah im sorry i saw it right after i posted that then my internet started messing up

i said flipping was the dumbest case because he took something i said, thought it said the complete opposite, and tried to make a case of it. you even said it didn't make sense.

the omgus i addressed that 2 posts ago so i didn't think i needed to repeat myself when it was only one post of mine back.

the PBPA's i have already said i don't agree with because they only take into account half my posts then make me sound bad about it.

backpedaling would have been the same answer as forcing my case, so i didn't repeat it. prolly should have clarified that though.

i don't really know what the big deal was about discussing power roles, but apparently its not good.

[sirdanilot]

A lot of information is good, but honestly I wouldn't want to see a 100 page day 1, since I would refrain myself from re-reading the game and posting pbpas since it would be too much work. This may seem a bit irrelevant at first, but practical things like these actually do matter. It allows scum to hide in a dense fog of 100 pages full of pointless discussions about irrelevant game theory, semantics or discussions between two people that don't really amount into anything, while actually useful things like bandwagons, good constructive posts or even scum slips may be left unnoticed.

I really think it's time to clear the fog and work towards a lynch, or even just a serious bandwagon.

But not before the mod comes in to post a vote count.

[clammy]

Vote Count the Tenth

afatchic (5) - TheInvisibleCop, someone2,

sirdanilot

, SensFan, OverCaffeinated
Light-kun (1) - omni
FlyingFoxBat (1) - FlyingFoxBat
SensFan (1) - Light-kun
someone2 (1) - afatchic

Not Voting: drake_259, hitogoroshi, Kmd4390

With

12

alive it's

7

to lynch!

Mod: Any news on FFB?

No, [jas] is being lazy and tells me he'll work on it Monday, as such, no deadline applies at the moment. This is still considered likely soon.

[sirdanilot]

Why is omni voting an uncounterclaimed cop?

Since FFB is not going to join us or be replaced for a while, this day is going to take a long while. We can't lynch anyone since there's a chance FFB counterclaims.

Clammy, please just find a replacement for FFB, there's no way he is coming back anyway.

[omni]

Where's the cop claim SD I can't see it? It is late and I am tired though.

to answer that 3 most suspicious question:
Light-kun
Sensfan - just been odd play, I don't know if I'm convinced that you are but it's been interesting to see you not really want to help the town and try and mess everyone around
afatchic - There's been the wagoning thing there a long with just throwing a lot of stuff around - having said that at L-2 I'd want to be much more sure

Sorry I can't see the cop claim, can someone point it out to me?

[SensFan]

Sensfan - just been odd play, I don't know if I'm convinced that you are but it's been interesting to see

you not really want to help the town and try and mess everyone around

Ummm...bullshit?

[Kmd4390]

vote afat

L-1.
Anyone voting afat after me is hammer.
Don't try to call it accidental now.

anyway, afat.

show me examples of this flipping thing. Show me the case, why you disagree with it, and where I disagreed with it (I probably did).

I have read it 4 times and I don't see where you addressed the OMGUS vote.

You should at least address the parts of the PBPA that were mentioned. SirD has already said that he would be willing to provide the rest as well.

backpedaling is different from forcing cases. Backpedaling is basically saying something, getting called on it, and immediately saying "ok, I was wrong" when you may or may not agree yet. Forcing cases is taking things that are null or not a big deal at all and making a case with it.

No, you NEVER discuss power roles and we had this discussion already. I already said more than I wanted to (in case we have newb scum) so I'd rather not have the discussion again.

[afatchic]

LK, where do you see this "flipping"? Point me in the direction because I don't see it and I can say this as some one who is suspicious of afat.

LK, Afatchic never defended you, and I don't see at all how the line you quoted is scummy. Seriously, that was horrible.

It's too bad Brandi has to replace out, but hopefully the game will get more active now.

mod: please prod SensFan

an OMGUS vote is when someone votes in return for a vote on them right? i didn't do that, i provided why i thought he was scummy then voted.

and i realize there is a difference between backpedaling and forcing, however the answer would have been the same for both. read it and it should make sense that way.

and since im at L-1 i guess i have to make an attempt to defend myself and stuff.

i have already defended the stuff against me, so i guess i will claim. i really don't want to have to do this on day 1, but i have doc role. when i was speculating on power roles i was hoping to get a better opinion from a more experience player then i would know whether to save him or not. however that plan backfired when everyone turned on me for it.

[SensFan]

Posting to show I read afat's post.

[Kmd4390]

unvote

afat, if you get a role like that in the future where it benefits you to know power roles, keep speculation to yourself. In thread, all you are doing is feeding the scum information.

[Kmd4390]

Actually...

vote afat

Now that I think about it, I don't believe the claim.

[Kmd4390]

Who wants to hammer?

[hitogoroshi]

Actually...

vote afat

Now that I think about it, I don't believe the claim.

To some extent I agree. I believe L-K's claim even less. But it's really something you shouldn't do. Of course, I feel frustration, because I agree with sirdan -

A lot of information is good, but honestly I wouldn't want to see a 100 page day 1, since I would refrain myself from re-reading the game and posting pbpas since it would be too much work. This may seem a bit irrelevant at first, but practical things like these actually do matter. It allows scum to hide in a dense fog of 100 pages full of pointless discussions about irrelevant game theory, semantics or discussions between two people that don't really amount into anything, while actually useful things like bandwagons, good constructive posts or even scum slips may be left unnoticed.

and want this day to be over. But lynching claimed is something I still really, really, don't want to pursue.

Though it's interesting, two times we came to the brink of a lynch and two times claims swoop in at the last minute. I've got a little theory brewing.

[Kmd4390]

Not sure on LK either way. Afat, I don't believe.

Hito, are you going to hammer?

[Kmd4390]

Thinking afat claimed doc in order to cover up power role speculation.

Sorry about posting so much here.

[SensFan]

Wait, nevermind.

Unvote

, forgot about LK's claim.

We will not lynch either today. Tomorrow, LK gives us results. If LK ever dies overnight, we lynch afat.

[Light-kun]

Sens, that is actually pretty brilliant... except, what if mafia has a role blocking role?

But, to be honest: Afat as doc is almost too convenient. I don't like it. I won't vote him because of the claim on day one, but I still don't like it... not at all.

Anyway, taking my vote off sensfan

Unvote

[SensFan]

Sens, that is actually pretty brilliant... except, what if mafia has a role blocking role?

Well, now that you've spelled it out to them...

I stick by my plan.

[hitogoroshi]

Yeah, I've been considering the net equity of it. A few hitches, but pretty far into the black for a D1 scheme. My plan kind've flew out the window when L-K claimed, so for now I'll gladly follow this plan for the day and let Sens wear the active pants. (Though with all of the digs on my playstyle, I was kinda hoping to kick in into high gear. Aw well, we've got time.)

Though I still disagree about wanting 100 pages of info. One of the key tests for divulging evidence is "Why did they say this instead of saying something else?" When they've said everything, that's not possible. Of course, it's easier to catch people avoiding a particular interaction with more content, but there is still a too long. I think of it as a parabola, and I think we've hit a relative maximum already. With these new events, a few more pages will be just swell and dandy, but beyond that I think we should get ready to go to sleep.

[sirdanilot]

$%@^%#%#$!@$%$%@

unvote

Great. Two power roles outed. This day isn't going well at all.

Now, I don't want to get into mod speculation too much, but I'd be a bit surprised if there would be cop + doc. That combination is usually pretty town biased, so yeah light kun did have a point that there are probably mafia power roles.

We can't lynch until FFB or a replacement posts to counterclaim either of these claims (or not). Since I still hate FFB's self vote, I'm just going to vote him for now.

vote flyingfoxbat

And when I have the time I will post a pbpa on someone else.

[omni]

OK first up I'll

unvote

and I'll take back my bad vibes on Sensfan, very helpful thoughtlines and ideas I really like it, still sucks that we're beack to square one.

[Kmd4390]

Well, nobody is going to lynch afat yet.

unvote

Let me know if you all change your mind.

[Kmd4390]

I still think Afat is lying scum but nobody wants that lynch and I can see why.

Brandi - My vote was 90% random, 10% serious

These usually come from scum. It's an excuse to say "yes, I was joking but now there is serious stuff so I'm keeping my vote and not saying if it's serious or joke."
I did this in my first game as scum and ended up lynched day 1. (with some busing involved)

So my two posts and two lines of commentary are worse than inquisitors one post with one line, that's an interesting view you have there.

Redirecting attention. "Look at inquisitor not ME!!!"

KrisReizer may need some explaining too for just following Light-Kun with no real explanation there

having said that it's clear that post 42 was very scummy, at the least loose reasoning.

FoS - Light-Kun

So you see something scummy and keep your "90% random" vote on and FoS?
What?
I'm lost.
Now why would you go and FoS some one scummy and keep a joke vote on?

I concur with this notion of needing to bring people back to activeness, so having said that, Krisreiser was very active at the start but not so much now, hopefully this will coax him out

unvote, vote: KrisReiser

This is the bandwagon vote that caught my attention in the first place. This was 2 posts after I voted kris for the exact same reasoning.

unvote

Of all the inactives he seemed like the most suspicious he posted so much at the start and then died off. I was thinking about going for one of the others though and perhaps should have.

This is what shows me that it was not a pressure vote.
You thought kris was the most suspicious (but your reasoning was just mine reworded) and you backpedal by saying you should have gone after some one else. This is one of the scummiest of your posts in this game. There is no reason for town to do something just because it's what everyone wants.

but LK your original vote for me was because of inactivity

Hold on.
Did you not vote Kris for inactivity earlier?
Yes, I believe I quoted that.
I have no problem with voting for inactivity but...
you are going after LK for doing something that YOU DID EARLIER.
I don't agree with the reasoning in the first place but wow...
It's only scummy when he does it? Very interesting.

I must say afatchic has been a bit suspicious on here since arriving, but not really enough for me to change my opinion about L-K

"If nobody likes my LK vote, I'll change it to afat"
Distancing from your partner here?

Certainly, but first my lack of posting, I don't use many words, I'm in a dammed if I do dammed if I don't scenario, because of the timezone issues 99% of what I am going to say has already been said, I don't much want to jump on here and say "I agree with x, y & z" because that'll look bad, as will not posting, I'm kind of caught between a rock and a hard place but I am here and am watching, the reason for the short post was the reponse to a prod, not because of your saying that I was lurking, you looked suspicious because as soon as you got into the game you immediately jumped on the biggest bandwagon (in a nutshell)

As for L-K - this latest development has really intensified it, like you guys say he's a huge people pleaser but I think most of all his sole basis for suspecting people is how much they post, it seems to me he never looks at content but rather looks at non-content and even then he still gets it wrong. He's not interested in anything other than defending himself and deflecting the attention onto others (eg. Brandii)

So you would rather not post at all than tell us what you agree or disagree with and maybe add some new thoughts?
And then you call out LK for looking at how much people post?
"I'm not going to post much and I don't want LK pointing it out either."

Thanks heaps for that cop, it really is a useful look, really raised my suspicions about FFB, you've really analysed it all well. Like afatchic though I must say LK is the most scummy but we need to hear more from others.

Buddying up to cop and at the same time, you now have FFB to go after if the LK wagon fails. Of course you could go to afat too because you said so earlier.

What you did in previous games means nothing, it's a pretty terrible tactic either way, if you won't share why it's not very helpful is it?

fos: SensFan

Now you are suspicious of Sensfan too!
Wait, didn't you accuse LK of flipping earlier too?
Let me go back and find that.

You seem to be hopping around a heck of a lot, looking for really flimsy reasons to vote for people, it really doesn't make a lot of sense to me how you are playing it seems very odd for town

vote: Light-Kun

Here it is.
That was what you voted over.
"hopping around a heck of a lot."
At the point of the last post I quoted, you have voted for LK and posted suspicion on sensfan, ffb, and afat.
You are hopping too...just not with votes....because nobody notices that.....or DO they?

L-K is always very quick to just deflect, to jump on any bandwagon he can and I think he's still scummier than anyone else in this game, now I could turn out to be wrong, and that's the good thing about seeing others as potential scum and then figuring out where I went wrong, which is why it's good to get an analysis from other players throughout the game.

Now here it is again. LK is "jumps on any bandwagon he can" but you may be wrong about him so after you get him mislynched, you can say "I was wrong, but look who else I said was suspicious." You have a few others to choose from. Who looks like the easiest target....

Where's the cop claim SD I can't see it? It is late and I am tired though.

to answer that 3 most suspicious question:
Light-kun
Sensfan - just been odd play, I don't know if I'm convinced that you are but it's been interesting to see you not really want to help the town and try and mess everyone around
afatchic - There's been the wagoning thing there a long with just throwing a lot of stuff around - having said that at L-2 I'd want to be much more sure

Sorry I can't see the cop claim, can someone point it out to me?

Your top suspicion claimed cop and won't be lynched today. Ok, where's your list of small suspicion? There's afat, gotta throw the scum buddy on but at the bottom so you can distance yourself if he is lynched but you aren't pushing for it.

OK first up I'll

unvote

and I'll take back my bad vibes on Sensfan, very helpful thoughtlines and ideas I really like it, still sucks that we're beack to square one.

Damn, can't vote Sensfan, now what?


So for those who don't read long posts, here is my case on omni, the short version:

-in between joke/serious vote (I did this as first time scum)
-redirected attention early on
-bandwagoning kris with nothing new, just my reasoning. I also pointed out why this probably wasn't a pressure vote.
-backpedaling: "I should have gone after some one else.
-accusing LK of doing the same thing he (Omni) did with inactivity vote. (not necessarily bad to vote for inactivity anyway).Also did this with the hopping thing.
-distancing (afat)
-giving multiple targets in case LK wagon fails. (will be interesting to see where Omni goes from here) Afat's name was at the bottom of his list. Keep that in mind later in the game.
-buddying up to cop (name, not role)

While I still think afat is scum, I'm ok with

voting omni

right now.

[Light-kun]

O.O

...

Dammit KMD, now I really don't know who to choose. That is actually...a really good case on Omni...

@Sensfan: When has the mafia ever been dumb enough to not kill a cop if possible...?
And if we left it as is, then they could probably have both of them killed by a nk and tomorrow lynch. THAT would suck.

I am inclined to agree with the case. And since the only other "case" is on FFB (which is still too weak since FFB has been missing for a while), I am going to

Vote: Omni

.

[SensFan]

@Sensfan: When has the mafia ever been dumb enough to not kill a cop if possible...?
And if we left it as is, then they could probably have both of them killed by a nk and tomorrow lynch. THAT would suck.

How about we stop talking about the Scum's optimal plays?