Mini 650: Over

[Kmd4390]

which are?

In reverse chronological order:
(Sorry, it's easiest for me.)

I find it difficult to distinguish between the chatter of a scum player verse someone that has a role.
In light of not having a counter claim to Light-kun's role claim, i'm voting for afatchic.

Vote: afatchic

obvious second choice but this looks like OC says you aren't contributing content.

Vote: Someone2

OMGUS?

SirD's PBPA

PBPA.

You were 4th of 5 on the wagon. You replaced into the game and immediately jumped on.

translates to "wagoning"

So if you can see both sides, why are you so convinced that he is scum?

translates to "forcing a case"

So after people attacked your case (most people think LK is scum btw), you tried to back off of it a little bit by saying that he could be town?

translates to "backpedaling"

PBPA

FoS: Afatchic

Look, pick a side. You cannot vote and be angry at me in one post, then flip to defending me, and then flip back, and then defend me... You just can't do it. Seriously, I *would* be concerned about your views and actually try to argue against them, but every other post, you flip.

At first, I thought: okay, maybe he is mulling it over in his mind about my response to his first (second?) post. But no, you are on the fence post and that is not helping town.

translates to flip-flopping, fence-sitting, indecisiveness, or whatever you want to call it.

Uhm, going away for only three days won't get you replaced out, especially since the game is moving at a really slow pace (except for light-kun of course!)

Oops, sorry, I was talking about the monday in one week. Well, I think now everyone understand.

I really don't like afatchic posts. Like Kmd sais he jumped on the biggest bandwagon, but without any apparent reasons. All the reasons he stated, he refutated in his next post to defend himself.

"When i said that being the center of attention doesn't seem smart for a townie, i never said it meant he was scum, which it sounds like that is how you took it. it would be plain stupid to stay in the center of attention if you were scum. but i just don't find it very helpful to the town, if a townsperson was to stay under pressure the most. so pretty much, i think it is dumb either way to play to where nearly all the other players are constantly pressuring you. which does seem to some extent how his play has been. "

So you're saying that he can be both town or scum, because its dumb for all town or scum. Wow, that helps... And that is the main reason you're voting LK?

i believe that we should just continue pressuring him untiil we get some evidence that he isn't mafia. it would be a huge start to this game if we could eliminate one of the mafia in the first lynch. then on the other hand it would be a terrible mistake to lynch a power role the first day. i think we should continue to pressure unless someone else comes up acting a little scummy, and if it gets to an L-1 then maybe he should claim his role, since it does seem as if he has a power role.

That just screams scum. That's just a pretty easy way to get a hammer on a townie if you're scum.

and no i didn't just come out and jump onto the largest bandwagon. i did what i believe every replacement should do, reread the game, and then put in your thoughts. i gave brief summaries of everything i found somewhat scummy. and since LK does have probably 1 out of every about 3 posts, obviously i am going to focus more on him.

i didn't at all bandwagon, i gave my reasons why i thought he was scummy, then i voted. when he proves to me that he isn't then i will remove my vote. but until then he is at the top of my list so he gets my vote. maybe if we had more participation from everyone and he wasn't the only one consistently playing then we could all get better reads on everyone.

Hum...Hum...

1. What were these reasons (plural, like you said)
2. The post about the push on Lk wasn't an idea of bandwagon?

Oh, and you say it's bad to play with tunnel vision, but you want everyone to focus on lk until there's an EVIDENCE he's not scum. If it isn't tunnel vision tell me what it is. And sorry to upset you, we'll never have any total evidence on day1

There's so much contradictions between your aggressive posts and your defensive ones that I can hardly make a coherent post stating them all! It seems like you panicked at the first question of Kmd, and who are the ones who panick when under pressure...scum.

vote:afatchic

I'm running out of time before class but this post contains a vote so I'm sure there is a case there.

whats wrong with my post. all i was saying is that with how excited he seems about the game, up until i came it seems like since i don't think he has posted while i have been here, you would think he would have motives other than town behind that. what is the problem about mentioning power roles? im a little confused.

Power roles should never be talked about. That conversation ends now.

i honestly have no opinion about FFB. i don't think you can really get a great idea about someone in the first three posts they place. if he would come back or get replaced im sure i will have more thoughts about that character.

He has lurked quite a bit though.

KMD what are you thoughts at this point in the game?

My major suspicions are you and omni. I, unlike most people, don't think that LK is scum. Everyone else is either lurking or I haven't seen much on them. We need more content in this game. It has picked up since it started but it still isn't where it should be.

Ugh... talking about power roles is

wrong

. It only helps the scum, and town can't be sure they're a power role anyway until they claim, and that's only a last resort. Just generally, usually you shouldn't mention power roles until endgame.

FoS afatchic

, I think that post is really scummy (the one that mentions power roles and stuff)

I agree 100% with this post. If you want to speculate on power roles, keep it to yourself until the game is over.

I'm rushing but I see that you mentioned power roles somewhere.

Ugh... talking about power roles is

wrong

. It only helps the scum, and town can't be sure they're a power role anyway until they claim, and that's only a last resort. Just generally, usually you shouldn't mention power roles until endgame.

FoS afatchic

, I think that post is really scummy (the one that mentions power roles and stuff)

power role speculation. SirD FoS'd for this.

See page 7 for my original case on you as well. I have to go to class...like....now...

[Light-kun]

So, Sensfan, can you not draw any conclusions by assuming that I am town? I kind of expected something more from you.

Afatchic, I am pretty certain that KMD pointed out Someone2's case on you.

I don't have much to say... except:

Mod: Any news on FFB?

[SensFan]

So, Sensfan, can you not draw any conclusions by assuming that I am town? I kind of expected something more from you.

Why would I assume you're Town? I happen to think you are Scum.

[hitogoroshi]

And seeing as he already said that in post 347, you seem to be asking, only you don't want to overtly ask. Why is that?

And KMD, why the FoS for attacking someone attacking someone mentioning power roles? That seems stupidly hypocritical.

[Kmd4390]

Afatchic, I am pretty certain that KMD pointed out Someone2's case on you.

I pointed out everything I have seen stated about afat since page 8. My original case is on page 7 if you want to see that as well.

And KMD, why the FoS for attacking someone attacking someone mentioning power roles? That seems stupidly hypocritical.

I wasn't FoSing SirD, I was pointing out that he FoS'd afat for mentioning power roles. Afat asked for cases against him so I provided everything I could find in reverse chronological order. I had to stop at page 8 because I had class. If anyone wants the rest, I can go get it. I don't think there is much more than my original case beyond this point however.

My vote will be back on afat after we get a vote count. I'm good with lynching afat, just not with an accidental hammer.

[hitogoroshi]

Oh, I get it. That afat quote at the top makes sense now. Sorry for the mistake.

Honestly, I think D1 CAN go too long for town, to the point when the scum can conjure"cases" when people were just making idle conversation because the game is so stagnant. I think we've hit the point where we're just going to kill each other if we don't hit D2 soon. So I'm going to be more malleable than usual. But, like KMD, I want a vote count first. The claim has certainly shook things up.

[SensFan]

And seeing as he already said that in post 347, you seem to be asking, only you don't want to overtly ask. Why is that?

:goodposting:

[SensFan]

Honestly, I think D1 CAN go too long for town, to the point when the scum can conjure"cases" when people were just making idle conversation because the game is so stagnant. I think we've hit the point where we're just going to kill each other if we don't hit D2 soon. So I'm going to be more malleable than usual. But, like KMD, I want a vote count first. The claim has certainly shook things up.

I disagree. The goal of Day 1 is not to lynch Scum.

[hitogoroshi]

Erm, that's not what I said? What I said is that if D1 goes on too long, people will just end up talking for the sake of talking and the scum can use it as evidence. So I think we just need to end it SOMEHOW, before "I just want to talk" gets mixed in with evidence. In fact, "I'm going to be more malleable than usual" is basically saying "I'm willing to be less persuaded that we should lynch this person, because we need to move on."

[afatchic]

Okay im going to do my best to answer everything in KMD's post...

i would really like OC to explain how i haven't contributed much content, because i think i have.

i don't see my vote as wagoning. i explained, then voted for who i found the scummiest, if that happens to be on the person with the most votes oh well. my vote didn't put him at all near a lynch so i wasn't worried about it. and i also see a lot of people wagoning me right now.

i wasn't forcing a case. i was just stating that any comment can be taken as a stupid scum move, or a stupid townie move, but i think it was more likely a scum move.

the flipping could possibly be the dumbest case anyone has ever made against me so therefore im skipping that one.

and someone2 i would like to know why you think i am scummy for wanting to pressure LK, and why isn't SirD scummy for saying we should pressure Sensfan?

[SensFan]

Erm, that's not what I said? What I said is that if D1 goes on too long, people will just end up talking for the sake of talking and the scum can use it as evidence. So I think we just need to end it SOMEHOW, before "I just want to talk" gets mixed in with evidence. In fact, "I'm going to be more malleable than usual" is basically saying "I'm willing to be less persuaded that we should lynch this person, because we need to move on."

I'm saying that I would be quite happy to have 100 pages to look back on after Day 1.

[afatchic]

I agree with sensfan, we shouldn't end D1 prematurely. while there are 386 posts, there is decent content from about half the players. i think we need more input from the other players first.

[omni]

The issue with asking for more input is that it's just a lot of rubbish mainly, while it may be useful it may just be people posting so you don't start lynching them there are a lot of people who aren't making up their minds, or just posting nothing in particular and not giving us anything. I'm fine with a day dragging on, if that's what has to happen, but when it just drags on so people can post nothing, that's where the problem is.

[Kmd4390]

I disagree. The goal of Day 1 is not to lynch Scum.

But obviously a scum lynch is better than a town lynch.

[SensFan]

The issue with asking for more input is that it's just a lot of rubbish mainly, while it may be useful it may just be people posting so you don't start lynching them there are a lot of people who aren't making up their minds, or just posting nothing in particular and not giving us anything. I'm fine with a day dragging on, if that's what has to happen, but when it just drags on so people can post nothing, that's where the problem is.

Disagree pretty strongly with post of this. In fact, I think you might be trying to get by with as little content as possible.

Who are the 3 people you find most suspicious, and why?

[Kmd4390]

afat:

I'll let OC answer your first question.

wagoning- You DID wagon whether it was a good wagon or not. As town, you may have seen him as scummy but he was basically everyone's target. As scum, you know that he is town and you did speculate on him being a cop earlier. I believe you said either scum or power role. If you are scum, you know that he isn't scum so thinking that he is a power role, you push the lynch.

forcing the case- You wanted the lynch so badly that you look at scum points but you acknowledge the town points so that we can't argue it. It looks like "I think he is scum and needs to be lynched. I can see why you would think town though. Just lynch him."

flipping- Don't just call it stupid and discredit it. Tell us why it is stupid and why you don't think you flipped.

I'll let someone respond to your question as it is directed at him, not me.

How would pressuring a player to back up his case possibly be scummy? It was obviously the right move to make at that time.

You didn't respond to the following:
-your OMGUS vote
-the PBPAs
-backpedaling
-power role discussion
-This one is new but....not answering everything.

[SensFan]

I disagree. The goal of Day 1 is not to lynch Scum.

But obviously a scum lynch is better than a town lynch.

Right, but hitting Scum is a nice side effect. I'd be much happier to lynch Town with a bunch of info, then lynch Scum and have very little info.

[sirdanilot]

what i would like to know is SirD, why did you do a PBPA of me for 24 posts and use that to make me look bad when i really had like 65 posts or something.

I explicitly mentioned that I had to stop at that time. To be honest, KrisReizer's extremely scummy history as well as the scumminess of your first 24 posts is enough for me to have a vote on you. If this is coming closer to a lynch, I am going to finish my pbpa to allow the potential hammerer to decide.

Still waiting for the vote count.

[Kmd4390]

I disagree. The goal of Day 1 is not to lynch Scum.

But obviously a scum lynch is better than a town lynch.

Right, but hitting Scum is a nice side effect. I'd be much happier to lynch Town with a bunch of info, then lynch Scum and have very little info.

If afat is today's lynch, we want afat to be scum. I don't see the benefit of lynching town. If we do lynch town, yes, we get information to help us find scum but...
I would much rather lynch scum than town.

[SensFan]

I disagree. The goal of Day 1 is not to lynch Scum.

But obviously a scum lynch is better than a town lynch.

Right, but hitting Scum is a nice side effect. I'd be much happier to lynch Town with a bunch of info, then lynch Scum and have very little info.

If afat is today's lynch, we want afat to be scum. I don't see the benefit of lynching town. If we do lynch town, yes, we get information to help us find scum but...
I would much rather lynch scum than town.

You are misreading me, either intentionally or not.

Lynching Scum is a bonus. Getting information out of the lynch is the goal.

If you want, go look up Martyr Mafia. In Night 0, I vigged 1 of the 2 Scum. The town lost brutally, since they never got any information.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, that sounds better.
We obviously WANT to lynch scum but even a townie lynch can bring information.
Do you agree with this?

[SensFan]

Ok, that sounds better.
We obviously WANT to lynch scum but even a townie lynch can bring information.
Do you agree with this?

Yes. I value information more than a Scum lynch, though, which is the point I was trying to make.

[Kmd4390]

Well, this is distracting discussion so I think we have to agree to disagree on this point.

Still waiting for afat to respond.

[afatchic]

KMD what are you waiting on me to respond to? have i missed something?

[Kmd4390]

This.

afat:

I'll let OC answer your first question.

wagoning- You DID wagon whether it was a good wagon or not. As town, you may have seen him as scummy but he was basically everyone's target. As scum, you know that he is town and you did speculate on him being a cop earlier. I believe you said either scum or power role. If you are scum, you know that he isn't scum so thinking that he is a power role, you push the lynch.

forcing the case- You wanted the lynch so badly that you look at scum points but you acknowledge the town points so that we can't argue it. It looks like "I think he is scum and needs to be lynched. I can see why you would think town though. Just lynch him."

flipping- Don't just call it stupid and discredit it. Tell us why it is stupid and why you don't think you flipped.

I'll let someone respond to your question as it is directed at him, not me.

How would pressuring a player to back up his case possibly be scummy? It was obviously the right move to make at that time.

You didn't respond to the following:
-your OMGUS vote
-the PBPAs
-backpedaling
-power role discussion
-This one is new but....not answering everything.