Invitational 10: 2005-2006. Game over! before 624

[elvis_knits]

Ether, I don't think elvis really finds me scummy.

Actually, I do. Why do you doubt my sincerity?

[MrBuddyLee]

Your posts about me seem more angry at me than suspicious of me. And you've flitted off me like a butterfly, leading me to believe there's no consistent scumvibe in your read but rather you're reacting defensively to my attacks on you.

[elvis_knits]

I don't think "flitted off you like a butterfly" is correct. I've been voting, you, patrick, and DGB until recently. I've been voting my top suspects when I question them.

I think you may be right that I have acted defensively toward you. I have felt that you attacks have been full of fail. When I see a BS attack on me, and a player who refuses to listen to my explanation and is determined to read me as scummy no matter what I say, who refuses to even contemplate that they might be wrong (gasp!), I do start to think that person is scum.

[Elias_the_thief]

So...I'm the second choice for lynch based solely on the fact that I came back from lurking? I mean, lurking is a scumtell to some extent, and it certainly isnt believable when i say that I wasn't lurking as a scum strategy, but is it really enough to make me number 2? Also, you voted me AFTER I came back. If your reason was that I was lurking, why not get a wagon on me while I was gone? If you really believed I was lurking as scum strategy, you should have been pressuring me. This makes no sense.

Plenty of reasons. A wagon on a totally unresponsive lurker like you were is a pointless waste of time. Now that you're back, after so much lurking, I want to welcome you with my vote. You've gotten a free ride so far, except for some lurker cries from several players, and your lurking history makes you more deserving of pressure to give us the chance of seeing your true colors. Sure, that can mean exaggerating the case on you; but if under pressure, you can satisfy me that you have a townie agenda, I'll be delighted to switch my vote.

Delivering on the promised analysis of bluesoul might help. Might.

When a list mod gives me mod powers and I get my OP up for FFVII, I'll deliver.

[DrippingGoofball]

I love you... I just mean that if you're acting scummy anyway (which most people acknowledge), there doesn't seem to be much sense in keeping you alive on the chance that we're wrong and you *might* be town.

Perhaps, but I'm not always scum or vanilla townie.

[Elias_the_thief]

I'm away til Sunday.

[DrippingGoofball]

Elias killed the game

again

.

[bluesoul]

When a list mod gives me mod powers and I get my OP up for FFVII, I'll deliver.

You know, that's pretty fucking lame of you. Why are you holding this game hostage because you want to start another game? That's pathetic.

[DrippingGoofball]

Why aren't we lynching him? Are there compelling reasons not to?

[Elias_the_thief]

When a list mod gives me mod powers and I get my OP up for FFVII, I'll deliver.

You know, that's pretty fucking lame of you. Why are you holding this game hostage because you want to start another game? That's pathetic.

I'm "holding the game hostage"? Excuse me, last time I checked, every player in this game is free to scumhunt. Last time I checked, every player in this game is free to discuss. And last time I checked, every player in this game is free to vote. So dont tell me I'm holding the game hostage because I'm one of many people not posting frequently. I've been one of the most frequent posters in the last five pages, so dont tell me I'm holding the game hostage. Its not my responsibility alone to create discussion.

The OP for FFVII is up, and I will post my PBPA sometime today. But every time someone makes a post like this retarded BS it makes me less and less willing to do so.

[DrippingGoofball]

Elias does have a point. When are we to expect your Bluesoul analysis?

[Patrick]

Back from my limited access, somewhat agree with elias's response there. Some thoughts on what I've seen:

MBL was practically having orgasms about the game on his return from his holiday, I'd guess it's genuine so he's probably town. My only caveat is that I thought he was probably town in the first half of FTF Mafia and he wasn't; his play seems different here though.

Ether seems protown again after her last few: brings up several points I agree with, especially about elvis, and I doubt she'd have defended elias at that point as scum (regardless of elias's alignment).

bluesoul's last post looks unreasonable and he could be doing stuff himself (MBL asked him a question if I recall). Still the frustrated town tone.

I agree with those saying that elias's posts did seem already geared towards his end result, which was voting DGB. Overall he made some ok points, some of which are issues I have with DGB, although the analysis seemed rather harsh. There's very little in elias's posting that gives me town vibes, and a few mild scummy things (lurking/noncommital for ages and then his approach to voting DGB). I would tolerate an elias lynch, but I think elvis or DGB would be better (and *possibly* HackerHuck or pablito although I keep changing my mind especially with pablito).

My top suspects haven't substantially changed, but I feel somewhat disconnected from the game and would welcome (even appreciate) any questions about specific things.

[Elias_the_thief]

I agree with those saying that elias's posts did seem already geared towards his end result, which was voting DGB. Overall he made some ok points, some of which are issues I have with DGB, although the analysis seemed rather harsh. There's very little in elias's posting that gives me town vibes, and a few mild scummy things (lurking/noncommital for ages and then his approach to voting DGB). I would tolerate an elias lynch, but I think elvis or DGB would be better (and *possibly* HackerHuck or pablito although I keep changing my mind especially with pablito).

I wasn't noncommittal for ages. I've consistently named DGB my top suspect, except for my first major post in which it was bluesoul followed by DGB. Obviously my analysis looks geared towards attacking DGB. DGB was already my top suspect.

I'm typing up the analysis as you read this post.

[Elias_the_thief]

Bluesoul:

7: first post. nothing important
9: joke continuation.
28, 32, 36, 37: controversial "3 player" post. see post 480 for my opinion.
43: post from iphone. doesnt think mbl is scum.
45: defends against possible connection to sarc
50: Happy birthday, broheim.
55: joke response
64: further talk about "3 player"
67: ask for DGB post
94: see 64.
99: calls DGB on ad hom vote.
100: incorrect about DGB post
102: attacks math post
109: good post attacking DGB
116: inquiry post
118: continues inquiry.
121: good call on MBL's logic
129: Circularish discussion. Hard to follow.
130: dismisses point. possibly indicative that the argument was distancing, but nothing else supports the MBL-bluesoul link
133: response to PJ, attack DGB, response to sarc
135: see 130
137: analysis, nothing too noteworthy.
151: response to PJ and to some extent IH
167: disregards sarc vote
169: see 167
172: see 167
183: explains self
187: good attack on DGB list
192: inquiry
200: attacks my post.
201: attacks sarc question, avoids answering
210: silent onsarcs question
212: still no answer.
243: uselss post
272: against lurker lynch
276: draws connection early (dumb)
288: content in voting DGB
295: mirror EK on good question
311: wants to hurry day
312: asks for DGB claim
318: advocates lynch without a claim (in case of refusal)
320: already voting
321: see 318
365: comment on lurkers. Reinforce ether DGB link.
366: edit
369: comments on pablitos first post. explains and defends self.
370: apology
374: notes a weird point of pabs
383: attack on ether
388: talk about SS
390: moves to end day (i agree)
431: thinks MBL isnt completely townish
433: says DGB is still scummiest, notes speed of elvis wagon
525: nothing useful in this post.
526: promises to get caught up
529: tells DGB shes wrong
535: promises to catch up
537: defend 535
542: dismisses theory discussion
546: pissed off
558: explains self
570: good point against HH about his double standard
588: call for activity. worth noting that he hasnt said anything about the last couple pages, despite promising to get caught up.
612: bullshit vote against me. later explains it as starting discussion, but leaves his vote on me.
614: needless harassment
642: explains vote as conv starter and says it did its job. leaves vote.
682: retarded bull shit.

Basically reads as town to me. A lot of his posts have been taking other peoples posts and either agreeing or disagreeing. While this is obviously a large part of the game, theres a lot more of it then original scumhunting posts. The refusal to answer sarcs question definately bothers me, but I have no solid reason to write it off as scummy, so it remains just weird to me. Additionally, 642 reads as a weird post. He claims that his vote has already accomplished what he wanted it to, yet leaves it on. He gives no particular reason why he thinks I'm scummy, except maybe that I was a lurker during the early stages of the game, and there was a reason for that. Basically since he came back from his three page hiatus, he hasnt had any good posts besides his attack on HH's double standards. Still reads as town to me but I'm getting tired of him yelling at me for lack of posts when he hasnt been saying anything worth reading since 570, and before that since the 400's.

---

People voting me...why?

Bluesoul:

claims the vote was to start discussion, acknowledges that it did its job, leaves vote. Huh?

Pablito:

says my wording is wrong and scummy. I explain that its my style and that I use those phrases a lot, and dismiss a lot of his points. His rebuttal accepts most of my responses but leaves vote. again, huh?

DGB:

Gives no explanation other than that she believes I'm buddies to elvis. Scummy as hell.

MBL:

never fully explains. I would appreciate a definitive reason.

I would appreciate a definitive reason from EVERYONE. People are talking about how they'd be fine with my lynch, and I have yet to see anything over 2-3 sentences attacking me. I lurked much of the game: this was mostly due to camp. The lurking I did afterward was far from damning. My posts came across as if I'd already made up my mind; well no shit! I had, read my posts. When I said I was doing analysis of the two popular lynch targets, I never said that I was doing so to develop a raw read on them. In the case of DGB, I was further defining my suspicion. I cut corners on the Elvis analysis, who I in fact had no read on, but this is an instance of laziness, and I dont think thats particularly scummy. Further, were I scum, I could have easily lurked straight through to Day Two as basically no one was pressuring me. The fact that I'm even analizing players is a point in my favor which no recognizes. The random and almost completely unexplained wagon on me REALLY pisses me off.

[Patrick]

Further, were I scum, I could have easily lurked straight through to Day Two as basically no one was pressuring me. The fact that I'm even analizing players is a point in my favor which no recognizes.

Disagree, I think your failure to post was getting more attention. Lack of votes doesn't necessarily mean there was no pressure on you to produce the goods, and I don't think the fact you're analysing players makes you more likely to be town. I do agree that the wagon on you in overdone.

I'm slightly surprised you're reading bluesoul as town since your summary there was mostly critisism and you've read him as slightly scummy up until now. Anything in particular about him that reads as protown?

[MrBuddyLee]

Elias, right now you sound like scum pissed that our reasons aren't yet good enough to justify lynching you.

[chamber]

Unvote vote Elias

cause hes annoying me.

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias, right now you sound like scum pissed that our reasons aren't yet good enough to justify lynching you.

*shrug*
If you read any of my games, you'll find that I get angry on both sides of the game. Its really a null tell (for instance, read mini 495, 486 for town, newbie 499 for scum).

Further, were I scum, I could have easily lurked straight through to Day Two as basically no one was pressuring me. The fact that I'm even analizing players is a point in my favor which no recognizes.

Disagree, I think your failure to post was getting more attention. Lack of votes doesn't necessarily mean there was no pressure on you to produce the goods, and I don't think the fact you're analysing players makes you more likely to be town. I do agree that the wagon on you in overdone.

I'm slightly surprised you're reading bluesoul as town since your summary there was mostly critisism and you've read him as slightly scummy up until now. Anything in particular about him that reads as protown?

My early suspicion was based on the 3-player post discussion, which I rethought (i think i went over this in post 480). Most of the criticism is for small things. I noted that "taking other peoples posts and either agreeing or disagreeing" is a major part of the game. So, its not like I think he isnt scumhunting at all. Some of his posts had very good catches, and generally I find his agree/disagreements to be agreeing or disagreeing in a protown fashion, respectively.

[MrBuddyLee]

*shrug*
If you read any of my games, you'll find that I get angry on both sides of the game. Its really a null tell (for instance, read mini 495, 486 for town, newbie 499 for scum).

See, in my mind, a townie would say "I get angry as town." You keep pointing out how the scummy things you say could imply either.

If I had to call it right now I'd say Elias, DGB and Elvis are scum. I doubt I'm right about all three and some things about their interactions don't add up as a scumteam, so I'll be happy with 2/3 there.

If Ether is scum I'll be slightly surprised, same with chamber, CDB and Patrick.

bluesoul, pablito, wouldn't surprise me either way at this point. They're acting like bored town or scum who know they're not in danger.

Who are the last two players? They're laying so low I can't recall them after thirty seconds of thinking about the game's history.

edit: oh yeah, Huck and bird. Either could be scum without surprising me in the least. I think we're a little short on info from some people today. Establish your pro-town cred! Chop chop!

[Elias_the_thief]

*shrug*
If you read any of my games, you'll find that I get angry on both sides of the game. Its really a null tell (for instance, read mini 495, 486 for town, newbie 499 for scum).

See, in my mind, a townie would say "I get angry as town." You keep pointing out how the scummy things you say could imply either.

So youre saying that I'm scum because I told the truth as opposed to concealing a crucial fact about my playstyle? Why would I do that, so that someone can later point out that I do this as scum too? You're ridiculous. And you have yet to explain in any detail why youre voting me.

[bluesoul]

Posting from the iPhone again, Ike has left me without power for a week or more. PBPA looks reasonable but withholding judgment until I can look side by side. Will explain the hostage comment tomorrow if I can find wifi. Stay safe guys.

[Elias_the_thief]

Unvote vote Elias

cause hes annoying me.

You see, since I'm not a complete asshole, I'll refrain from voting you for the same reason. When you have a five vote wagon with others threatening to jump on without any decent justification, and none of the current voters will explain their votes, then complain to me about annoying.

[Elias_the_thief]

You know what? I'm really not too far away from just saying fuck this game up the ass. Sure I lurked early game. It was impossible for me to get caught up on weekends given how much my job took out of me and the preparation I had to put in to be ready for the next week. It was a mistake to think I could remain in it, I noted this, and I fucking apologized. I come back, I try to post some analysis despite the fact that I'm adapting to a new school and playing two sports and in band and jazz ensemble and boys scouts while at the same trying to find a job, and all I get is bluesoul fucking yelling at me that its not good enough WHEN I QUITE CLEARLY PROMISED AN INCREASED EFFORT AND MORE POSTS. well just fucking FINE. then I get a wagon with basically no reasons provided for votes. FINE. I continue doing analysis, I try to reason with the people voting me, I try to find out why I'm being voted so I can defend myslef and participate, and all I get is more fucking votes. In my bluesoul post I give an official call for reasons and point out that no one has stated any reasons that stand up at all, and NO ONE agrees with me. NO ONE. This is fucking ridiculous! I'm I the only townie here? Is this game really just a practical joke? When I start to get pissed off MBL tells me it makes me seem scummy. FINE. I, being completely honest, tell him that its part of my playstyle, and that its not really scummy, in attempt to defend myself. What do i get for that? I get told that im scum BECAUSE I DIDNT FUCKING LIE. You guys are all acting like retards. I'm pretty sure I'm done with this game if someone doesnt tell me why the fuck theyre voting me and engage like I'm actually a player in this game. A vote because I'm annoying? I'm trying to get back into this game, I call for reasons for votes, and you vote me because I'm annoying? FUCK YOU chamber. This is ridiculous.

[chamber]

I'm just being honest. Reading your posts is extremely annoying given your current attitude. At this point, quite frankly, I don't care who we lynch anyway I just want the damn day to end.

[DrippingGoofball]

I forgot chamber was playing... again!