Mini 619 - Ramen Mafia (Over!)

[charter]

What part of kiwi could have killed Oman and scum no NK'ed night one (because you were jailed) do you not understand? It all fits together so nicely.

[sthar8]

You haven't answered the question of why kiwi would kill Oman, or why scum would Nk no one. Neither of those points make sense.

The point is moot anyway since I can't be the RB and therefore can't be scum.

[charter]

Scum NK no one in order to frame kiwi. I don't know why kiwi killed oman, maybe because he thought Oman would get him lynched the next day like he promised. They both make complete sense. I'm not saying that's the only thing that could have happened, but you just declare it to be wrong.

[sthar8]

Kiwi had announced that he would not kill Oman if Liam was town. Oman would've looked really scummy if he'd survived, so his threat of leading a wagon was basically disarmed. It makes no sense for Kiwi to kill Oman, and he would have come under considerable suspicion for it.

Scum no kill is usually a very bad idea, unless they were trying to set up or support a doc claim.

[strife220]

Hah... that's not bad Sthar8. I'm trying to come up with a situation to refute it, but I'm having trouble.

When is deadline? I have to go back and fact check. I really can't come up with an explanation why scum made the kill choices they did n1 and n2 if Charter was scum, but Wk not getting a result N2 is damning on Charter.

[sthar8]

Note that charter has not responded to my assertion that I cannot logically be the RB. He knows he's dead.

[ClockworkRuse]

Note that charter has not responded to my assertion that I cannot logically be the RB. He knows he's dead.

I was just going to ask about this.

Unvote

Request Deadline Extension

A small one, I want to see what charter has to say.

[charter]

Sthar8, I still don't understand your so called miracle logic post. If you can explain it in simpler terms, perhaps I'd be better suited to giving a response.

[strife220]

To simplify Sthar8's argument:

WK didn't get a result from night 2. BB said he jailed Sthar8 night 2. Therefore, Sthar8 could not have roleblocked WK, and is thus not scum.

I can't come up with a realistic situation that counters this. You, Charter?


I think this is an incredibly appropriate time for a deadline extension as well.

[sthar8]

Aren't we days past the deadline? I'd say we're already getting an extension

If the assumptions on which I based that logic are sound, then the argument itself is as bulletproof as I am. If you're looking for a flaw, I'd start in the assumptions section.

And, charter, that is very close to the simplest way to express a logical argument. It lets you know exactly what each thought is based on so that any flaws should be readily apparent. The way 've expressed it also accounts for much of the weirdness that is possible, like WK not getting a pm because the mod wasn't paying attention or something.

[strife220]

Flameaxe has been afk for a few days - he just got replaced in another game I'm reading.

If Charter can't come up with a realistic explanation I'm going to hammer. The reasoning is solid.

[Flameaxe]

Deadline. No lynch. Night. I'm still busy.

[Flameaxe]

Strife is dead, he was Spicy Chile Ramen, mason. Day Six.

[ClockworkRuse]

Charter, what do you have to say for yourself?

What is your reasoning against Sthar being jailed night two?

[charter]

Charter, what do you have to say for yourself?

What is your reasoning against Sthar being jailed night two?

I protected strife, didn't do any good though. I understand how this looks bad on me, but BB lied when he claimed (post 586 for reference). This is apparrent to me now (because sthar8 is scum). I see how it probably isn't to you, but I suppose it's up to you to get a win for us CWR. Good luck making the right choice.

vote sthar8

[ClockworkRuse]

Charter, what do you have to say for yourself?

What is your reasoning against Sthar being jailed night two?

I protected strife, didn't do any good though. I understand how this looks bad on me, but BB lied when he claimed (post 586 for reference). This is apparrent to me now (because sthar8 is scum). I see how it probably isn't to you, but I suppose it's up to you to get a win for us CWR. Good luck making the right choice.

vote sthar8

Nothing besides that? You think that the jailer lied to us? I don't see that being very likely.

Vote: Charter

[charter]

Good game then sthar8.

[ClockworkRuse]

Good game then sthar8.

Honestly, do you think that BB would lie to us and help the scum? What reason would he have to lie?

I just don't see this as being a reasonable play by him.

[charter]

I lie all the time in mafia games. I've lied several times this game. I abhor LAL because it's incredibly flawed.

[ClockworkRuse]

I lie all the time in mafia games. I've lied several times this game. I abhor LAL because it's incredibly flawed.

But what would be the point of the Jailer lying about who he jailed?

There is no pro-town advantage to it.

[sthar8]

There is no way BB lied.

Die, Scum, Die.

Vote: charter

Congrats, town!

[sthar8]

EBWOP: minor I-told-you-so about charter, since I had him day1. (minor because I never suspected darla until it was time to kill her, and I was completely wrong on both BB and CWR )

[sthar8]

EBWOTP: Your play post-day1 was very good, charter, at least until lylo. You probably shouldn't have jumped on me so quickly, because you gave CWR the opportunity to clear himself when I still had residual suspicions of him.

Someone get Oman in here so he can explain himself!

And once again, no offense intended to anyone I badmouthed while trying to talk strife down, especially strife himself. I thought you played very well, and at a couple of points I was agreeing with you so much that I was suspicious that you were manipulating me somehow.

[Muerrto]

Dammit. Hey Charter, you missed an easy win before sthar posted all that mess about how he couldn't be scum.

Sthar, you questioned why scum would kill Oman and if Kiwi was blocked or something. Remember, Oman TOLD Kiwi to kill him because of his role. So we killed Oman and blocked Kiwi to make it look like there was a doctor. Since Kiwi never exlained himself we were good. Was just dumb luck WK investigated me. With you questoning that Charter could've sealed the game I think at that point.

Also, Charter, you heavily, heavily bussed myself and Darla. Sometimes that works yes but remember, Darla was the godfather so immune to WK. There's never, ever a good reason to buss the godfather.

Anyway, grr...lucky pick WK. Why did you pick me btw? I thought I was pretty low key day 1. GG guys.

I also would like to hear from Oman about what would've happened to him. Masons maybe?

[strife220]

Grats Sthar8 for putting down an awesome argument.
Grats CWR for not following my default "Sthar8 must be scum" tunnel-vision attitude D5.

I started the day 90% sure Sthar8 was scum, but I kept getting less and less confident through the day. Sthar8 played much more pro-town than Charter, but I thought the facts (no kill N2, way more likely a doc than bulletproof townie in game) were just too strong evidence. Very glad you realized the role-blocker thing.

I don't think Charter's bus was that strong, nor that inappropriate. A cop with a guilty meant Muerrto was guaranteed to be lynched eventually. And Darla's awkward claim meant the same. After those points, buddies have nothing to do but bus.