Mature Mafia: Game Over

[nonny]

Alright so I got my role. I've been following along. But I want to re-read now that i'm more invested in the game. Marcos said tally could give me mod privs?

[nonny]

unvote

Until I get a chance to reevaluate my suspects.

Also wb's joke on reading before joining confuses me, because it obviously based on the fact that I know the game, but is posted before I stated that. I guess if they looked in the replacement thread they would know but it just seems odd....../random

Going to do my re-read today at work and then a post after.

[nonny]

Still reading and evaluating. But had some things to mention:

First could someone edit pooky's death scene? All the "usefuls" are a bit annoying....not that big a deal though

Also, the ratio of "no roles:roles" looks suspiciously like the ratio of "scum:town" to me.

I kind of don't see that being plausible. I mean yeah the ratio may be there but so far it doesn't look like the case. Since raj the lynch day one had no mod role, but the two night deaths both had claimed mod roles. So while it may be a valid ratio, I don't see it being a valid case. Plus I doubt the mod would set it up in such and obvious fashion....

More to come, back to reading for me.

[nonny]

Adel the only poeple I see that viglante mode about activity and replacement is either an impatient townie with a good role or a townie that knows what going on, more often it's scum who want to hurry p an win over the confused town. Sure the game has been inactive. But besides your big post on glork there hasn't been many accusations lately other than you are in active you must be scum!!

Still re-reading.

[nonny]

Well the prodder(pooky) died, so someone may need to actually do it.

Right now I'm most suspicious of DGB but that is because she has been the most unhelpful, even if that is her playstyle I still don't like it, at all. Also, tally hasn't, as pointed out, posted that much. I noticed this while following along and was disappointed that there wasn't much activity from here. She only came active to ask if we wanted a deadline or when phoebus was being lazy about finding a replacement. So don't remember seeing much if any content from her either.

Still trying to figure out were my scumdar falls on everyone else.

[nonny]

I'm more worried about the scum lurking to a win or the game being abandoned.
Because there hasn't been much going on I'm supporting a DGB lynch (who has been active) becuase from my perspective I expect there to be one scum between Glork and DGB since they (along with me) were have not claimed specific mod powers.

So you find no mod powers scummy? So are you essentially calling yourself scummy?

From what I've been reading right now I would support a DGB or adel lynch. Both have been unhelpful. DGB in her playstyle as mentioned. And adel has pointed out lurkers, and hasn't really contributed that much at all.

Just because someone has a large number of posts doesn't make them active adel. It's the content not the number that matters, atleast to me. And looking back you may have 3 pages of posts all your own but they are all quite small and relitivly useless.


Those who do support a DGB lynch, do you still now that she is on vacation? Because if we do lynch her and she isn't around to post her role would we have to wait till she got back or go to night and have her post later? I would think with normal townie roles that have night actions the role of the person lynched does sometimes if not always come in to play when making your decision...

[nonny]

Trying to replace to many times would be bad in a game like this. Some posts have been altered. If you didn't know which ones you would be lost. And also some of the contexts of certain posts would be odd or change even. Also, you would have to probably find those "mature" players, and get them all mod powers for it to work. I ask mith he said jeep will get around to my mod powers soon.

Your case agianst elvis was a fairly large post. But it was lacking. Even when I read it before replacing in, I didn't see the logic. Also that was posted after you said that elvis is probably town in the game and then insulted her real life charcter. So I don't see the validity.

[nonny]

Your jump to me is odd adel. And marcos admited to doing his job by editing the deathposts. Sure I don't agree with how he edited it. But he atleast admitted it.

I don't see any actual accusation in your post towards marcos(me).

And I actual find it funny that you would steer away from DGB someone you were so set on, just because they are gone and it may delay the game. Are you just hoping to lynch anyone? You are very jumpy with your votes, that is a key thing I realized on my read through.

vote adel

[nonny]

does TDG= dripinggoofball?

Werebear that is a good idea but not sure how it would work out. Since they would need to have mod powers so it would have to be someone that already has those perferably. As it stands though it looks like if we lynch an inactive/vacationing player then we get to twidle our thumbs till they announce thier role, or move on and let them post when the night kill(hypothetical) posts.

How do we know if there are say no night kills? That is what i'm wondering. Say (forget who it was) is notified day starts, then no one posts a deathscene? i could see either anarchy or confusion happening.....

[nonny]

Funny thing is, adel's "case" implies that the scum would have some esp and know what the other one does automatically. Macros didn't admit to edtiting the deathpost until after adel's conclusion. So she is assuming that somehow with out a night to discuss it that elvis knew what macros did and was doing. Which is totally far fetched. You never really know anything till you are able to talk, so I don't see where adel gets that assumption that elvis must know it's marcos that edited the deathpost.....it's a huge jump. And not the only one.

[nonny]

Not really since your post referred to him being the one editing "all" the posts. And that he must be cheating. He admitted to editing the deathpost, which was you know technically his job. Sure he may have taken out some information that poeple didn't agree with. But he did his job, do you consider that cheating?

[nonny]

I don't really see that it is even cheating. Plus wasn't she pissed about the general idea that posts were being altered, not that specific post? And in turn she was planning on useing that "word" to cheat. And if the deathpost had never been altered it wouldn't be plausible to do so, but still. I don't see your flow of logic. I think she just assumed no town would edit any post ever. Course that is before it was discovered that it is part of some job descriptions, like the one to fix tags and what not? I don't agree with how marcos did his job, I'm just saying he did it, every mod has different death scenes some are short and sweet where as others are extravagant. So apparently marcos likes short and sweet, where as say pooky likes extravagant ones. I see that as doing what your told in the way you think it applies, not cheating. I do wish he would of left pooky's death scene as is, it was a good one. (and now the 50 billion usefulls are annoying)

I think you just aren't able to get over your grudge on elvis, nor are you able to see an perspective other than your own. If you had the job to edit death posts, would you? It's a matter of doing ones job, for all we know is there a penelaty for not doing your job? We say that real mod is obviously not paying attention, but this game is essentially his baby so I think he is paying more attention that we think.

Coron......vote counts?

[nonny]

So tally, where is that useful input?

[nonny]

As much as I agree with your vote. I'm still interested in the reason behind it.

[nonny]

Since tally is the deadline setter ask her. I don't believe she has.

You know tally I agree we need to move forward, and I do think adel is our best lynch candidate. I just want/ed some input. I don't think in any game that a town would just agree with a moving the game forward vote with out any other reason behind it.

[nonny]

My mod role is flavorer. I'm supposed to add flavor to the deathposts.

I believe, as I said earlier, Marcos just believed he was doing his job. I know some poeple, even myself, would have done it differently. But he thought he was just acting within his role. And you know he technically was. I don't know what supposed important information he took out of zu's post, the special "word"

I think the point of the game is to show that maybe there are different styles of modding, and that sometimes poeple get mad at mods over silly things, or over just doing thier job? We've all seen that to be true and some of us have experienced it. Most of us I believe have modded games before?

Posting from the rest of our players would be nice. Even adel has disappeared.

[nonny]

And get offended over the notion of being replaced. Our person that has that job was killed. But I don't see why we couldn't delegate it out. Can only prod a player so many times before you have to realize they just aren't playing any more(if ever)

I, too, agree with the rent-a-mod being a theme spoiler.

[nonny]

I mus say yes, that does look bad. And I don't agree with what he did in the situation. But I can't correct that. Plus when I was reading this game, before I became biased to marcos due to him being me. I thought he was just really not good at mafia nor at defending his actions. Since as you said there was no wit in the first deathscene edit nor the two that followed. He didn't even have time to tell if poeple would enjoy good deathscenes.

[nonny]

Adel I was refering to you grudge over the whole cheating the scum scenerio that elvis brought forth.

The first who dunnit post is something I think any one would do. But the one saying that he would lynch DGB is an odd one. I agree there, I just don't find that a good basis for saying someone is scum if that is all there is.

[nonny]

I agree wih logictcus logic....and want those questions answered as well.

[nonny]

If that is the case it sort of shows as being a little narrow minded in hoping that you are right with your orginal guess.

Now that you "remembered" pooky died is your opinion at all altered?

[nonny]

Or maybe you are scum and just latched on to the hope there is a special word? Or marcos didn't give i to me, or the word isn't that special but used actually quite frequently?

[nonny]

This is normally the part where people claim, adel

[nonny]

Up to you, I don't see any special word, nor could i derive what you meant from day one.

I was looking more for if you had a role like vig or something?

[nonny]

No you are at L-2. And role-fishing? Oh you mean like everyone has been doing since your slip up?

[nonny]

Note that mathcam was killed off by the scum, who I named as a third person in my expected scum team, which is a common way to discredit scum team theories.

How do you know which one of the n2 kills was from scum? Thats a terrible slip it appears.

The point is, it is unlikely that the scum have 2 nightkills, meaning one of the kills was not from the scum. And you state with a lot of certainty that the scumkill was cam and not pooky.

How would you know this without some inside information?

I think the point is we don't know if it was a vig or sk or mafia. Or something weird. You're assuming it was not a vig. Which hints to you being more informed about NK's that the rest of the town.

Mentally, I was counting mathcam's death as a vig, though one can't rule out SK. I really, REALLY wouldn't think the scum would take out someone as controversial as mathcam, yet, as logicticus said, you're very sure it was a scum kill. Me no likey.

I know that many quotes from the same page is annoying. But I think adel over looked a few things. That is role fishing to me. That is what any town (some scum) would do when some one says that they know for sure a certain player must have been the mafia kill.

I some how do buy that you forgot pooky died. You have been the most hard core about keeping up on this game and seems like you would forget something like that in a game you are so invested in.

Or you had your blinders on.

[nonny]

My point was that they were subtly asking for a claim. Or atleast saying that they had reason to believe you slipped some nk/night info and that a claim would eventually be needed.

I took the intiative to ask. And I added the vig part because, most poeple claim townie this is a fact, it's normally not regarded as specail. And we already have four confirmed(dead) townies. So unless this is a newbie set-up which due to the 2 nks I doubt. I'm assuming there are other roles out there. I was wondering what you would claim that would have anything to do with know the nk/night choices.

[nonny]

You seem to be very certain of a few things which I don't get. You say we have no doctors? How could you possibly know that.

Also you are very certain that there aren't any scum that are going to quick lynch you. How are you so certain of that? Is it due to the lurking, or because you know who the scum are? Or are you just assuming they are already voting for you? Aren't quick lynches usually not predicted, or else people would be able to stop them if they wanted to?

Also In the all mafia I've played waiting till L-1 to claim usually results in you being lynched before you claim or before the claim can be discussed. So in my experience it's claim at L-2.

[nonny]

ok, I'm going to take a stand here. The mathcam wagon is a bullshit semi-random (probably fueled by scum) nonsense.

He shouldn't claim since he shouldn't be at lynch -1!

Someone please unvote him, soonest!

Otherwise, I guess he will have to claim, but it shouldn't come to that.

So when you get to L-1 are you going to claim?

Your opinion orginally on mathcam seemed to change really quickly. He went from being the victim of a bad wagon to be one of your prime suspects. It looks almost based on nothing. The only person you ever had anything "on" was a weak case on elvis. She was your primary objective last day. So it makes me wonder why you are voting for me/marcos.

It was 4 days and 19 posts. What happened inbetween then? The battle between you and elvis regarding that "cheating" scenerio and the "word" Which you said shouldn't have been used against cam, but you also said it proved he didn't know it. Which is a bit contradictory in my mind.

So my point is that you flipflopped onto the elvis, cam, marcos scenerio. And we already know you were wrong(atleast confirmed wrong on cam) Also you case still doesn't hold water, and it's a bit odd that after a whole new day you don't have anything to add to it.

[nonny]

EBWOP: I said in my expierence, I didn't say it was a site wide phenomena. I've seen better out comes for town when they claim at L-2 then L-1, and I've seen a lot of times when a person was ready to claim and they got speedlynched.

[nonny]

Because your arguement was flimsy. And few poeple were looking at you as a lynch possiblity before your quoted your old theory. It wasn't sudden. Also, you were posting something and poeple started to comment on it and make votes based on it, that is how mafia works. You don't always get voted for speaking, but you do take the chance based on what poeple percieve.

I know of one right off the bat, newbie 616. At the end, not a very speedy in terms of when the first vote was put on, but the last two came very quickly. Right before I was about to vote the scum.

What about phoebus being replaced? What is your opinion on that matter?

The lack of participation is starting to get to me too. And I would like tally and elvis to contribute more(since both are just scratching the surface and then voting, and it's been like that most of the game, more so from tally then elvis). Logic and axelrod are passing by with enough participation, werebear hasn't mentioned any leads only that she want's a real mod. Coron is mia, and glork hasn't posted in ages.

[nonny]

Sorry If that is not what you guys meant, I saw it as that was a very scummy thing to say, why don't you explain yourself? I personally found the explaination lacking and thusly wanted claim or a real explanation.

Adel, I did include talitha....aka tally. Right next to elvis.

Tally, She was vocal on mathcam and his bandwagon being ill-founded, Then she went (4 days later with mathcam was still being bandwagoned) and said that he must be scum.

[nonny]

He didn't give me a reason. I'm assuming since it's what he said in thread. That he was just feed up and didn't like being in this sort of game. I also think this because of the tone of what he said when giving me the role. Basically he wanted out, and he didn't like this game.

[nonny]

Yeah i think a deadline is in order too. And maybe some prods?

Glork has yet to post the rest of his analysis.

[nonny]

From what it looked like phoebus was lurking and basically forced to replace. That is why he didn't say why. He didn't say much of anything, at all.

[nonny]

Very honestly - I've lost interest in this game.
I will ask mod if replacements are possible - I'm not hopeful for a helpful answer.

If this is a real game, the mature thing to do here is allow someone else, more motivated than me, to take over.

Okay so on re-reading what happened, he wasn't forced. I just know the first time i read it, it felt like force from tally, and a little from logicticus. But that may have just been them being feed up with him being lazy over finding a replacment.

This day started a little over a month ago. Who is the prodder again?

[nonny]

Yeah I understand and agree with that sentiment. Poeple needing to be prodded: axel, glork, coron, dgb(her vacation is over right?), logic, werebear. Tally and elvis are the only other poeple posting at any level of consistancy. I guess i'll take the intiative to prod.

[nonny]

EBWOP: sent out a prod to the poeple listed above. Just saying that we are requesting thier presence.

Those who want this game to end need to realize that won't happen if no one is active.

[nonny]

Just a note: everyone besides DGB and logic have picked up there prods.

After looking it over I find the wording in the phoebus quote odd, anyone else find it odd? The if this were a game part?

unvote adel

I'm still suspicious of adel, but for now she is being helpful by being active.

[nonny]

Mind refreshing your reasons on why you support those targets?

[nonny]

Where did that conclusion come from adel?

Even though we don't have much activity, it's starting to drive me crazy that no one is posting reasons behind thier accusations nor any meat of any kind in thier posts.

We have 30+ pages should be able to put together a case against the poeple you suspect with that. I'm working on a case and will post it tonight when I get off work.

[nonny]

Just realized: adel were you basing your accusation on your orginal case on elvis and marcos?

Thanks for the deadline tally. And I agree, it's doubtful we will even get a lynch at this point

I'm wondering poeple's opinion on the set-up we have, with the two night kills that happened. I'm lousy at this kind of speculation so am wondering what is thought to be most likely.

Decided I'm going to do another re-read tonight and post my findings with in the next day or so.

[nonny]

EBWOP: I'm starting to find those that picked up thier prods and didn't post a bit rude and suspicious i.e glork, coron. DGB hasn't picked up yet, she might still be v/la.

[nonny]

Thanks for clarifying logicticus. I agree on all fronts. Even though I don't want it to be, it's pretty clear what marcos did was not the best choice. Adel has jumped wagons a few times. And DGB is being as diehard as ever.

Glork I'd rather you post than be replaced.

[nonny]

I agree that replacements don't get clean slates. I think the point was that they aren't accussed as being scum solely on the fact that they got replaced. Ussually you have more to it, something the previous person did that lead you to this conclusion. Saying that they got replaced purely because they must be scum and not able to handle it is where you get into a uncommon area that leads to no evidence and only speculation.

[nonny]

I agree with that plan logicticus. Cause he has apparently been active in some other games.

[nonny]

looks like he is useing the thread in the queue. Course this only works if emptyger gives the replacement coron's role.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7&start=75

[nonny]

That or we lynch him. But then who would count the votes?

we would also have to hope he eventually posts his role...

[nonny]

I would suggest pming the one your replacing....aka coron

and Thanks!

[nonny]

EBWOP: I also aim'd coron to ask him to send you the role. (he is active on the site just not here obv)

[nonny]

nonny

(because of Macros acting in a deceptive manner, and because I feel like nonny is trying really hard to act the good townie here)

Have you any way of telling the two apart? Acting good townie and being good townie? Because if your only reason is that I'm acting too town that doesn't seem like an aweful good case.

Right now my list includes: adel, werebear, DGB(all three for having cases that don't have the great logic and have all been turned down by the town) Then elvis, tally( both post and seem to have good posts but don't really help out the town, i.e never explain what they mean or back anything up)

I want the post glork has been prmising for sometime.

[nonny]

EBWOP: my things mentioned have gone on through out the entire game, will point out specific areas when I have more time.

and welcome armlx!

Also, don't see why no lynch has been mentioned. We have a few players that a majority of poeple find suspicious and lynch worthy so I don't see why/when it would come to a no lynch.

[nonny]

Going to put my vote back on, since it's close to deadline and adel is still my greatest suspect.

vote adel

I agree with what logic said earlier too. Post count doesn't automatically indicate activity.

[nonny]

Perhaps we should extend deadline to give armlx a chance to catch up?

[nonny]

unvote, vote DGB

Thanks for the count logic.

DGB isn't my highest suspect, but I really just want us to move on. Also I don't find my self suspicous ^.^ obv

[nonny]

I really prefer Nonny to DGB... why are you guys rushing to DGB over Nonny?

why are you doing the opposite? Or is it still just your long drawn out theory?

[nonny]

Which "stories" don't match up. I don't know marcos' thoughts or reasons on what he did any more than you do. I gave my opinion on it.

Just to make it known, I still have no mod powers. So when deathscenes are posted they won't be altered by me. Even if I had powers I wouldn't alter a deathscene except maybe to clean up pooky's since macros probably did that out of furstration(the multiple "useful information"s)

[nonny]

So trying to fish out scum isn't nessacarily going to work.

[nonny]

I don't think this is the best play for town. We are just waiting for the clock to tick down and not discussing anything. The poeple being voted have no chance to even defend themselves cause there is nothing to defend against. Basically it's just waiting to see who tacks on at the last minute. I'm guilty of doing this too, since I'm voting DGB for the only reason that she isn't contributing much.

This in my opinion has been the worst demonstration of scum hunting I've ever seen. It is an aweful way to go about playing a game. Because of all this I'm going to vote the person I find most attributing to this, whether or not I'm the only one that is going to be voting for them.

unvote, vote tally

She has been lurksome this entire game. She stared the cam wagon, and was on it for the long haul, barly checking in on the game. She yelled at phoebus to replace him self and then suspects his replacee due to the fact that he listened to her. Earlier when I pointed out adel was against the cam wagon she became less suspicous of adel, but why? Since tally(and pooky) was the main reason the wagon started. Also, she(and some others) have thrown around votes with no accusations which is very bothersome to me no matter whom they fall on. She seems the most ansy to get to night, especially since she has control over that. I admit I am pleased we are moving on to night soon, but activity has increased much more than before. And armlx was giving no fair chance to catch up in my book. For these reasons and more my vote is there, and will stay there.

I would think being on day two with all "mature" players, we would have found out more. More was discovered on day one, then today. Ussually after two poeple die something is discussed and a better plan come about.

Also, where the HECK IS GLORK!

[nonny]

axelrod: that is exactly the mentality I was talking about

Was a bit rantish, but I stand by what I said.

Also I proded glork....again

[nonny]

DGB:

DGB has been pretty worthless lately. Although she was better in D1, since the new day there has been very little good posting from her, although that does not make her guilty by itself. I was never a fan of the push she was making towards cam having him post some part of his role pm (or alignment). Seemed a little like fishing to me. She was pretty focused completely on cam d1 and has now switched her focus on glork. if glork dies (regardless of alignment), she will focus on macros, the third of her trio.

Shes doing a bit of dubya bush on us, no matter the results of the latest days and the debate, she believes what she believes from day 1. No new knowledge can change that.

I stated earlier I agree with this, and I do. But for have 36 pages this is a pretty broad accusation. She wasn't the only one that was asking for the word/letter, nor is she the only one being worthless.

Armlx: I don't want a no lynch, farthest from it. (i do in games ussuly advocate a no lynch) But I rather we just not lynch someone blindly with no thought. Because you know what happens when they turn up innocent? Poeple can easily brush it off and say "oops, not my fault" and if they are scum then they some how are trusted as being scum hunters. I think it's a very lazy way to play a game.

Ussually in this situation(as far as i know) you don't simply leave the accused to go find every accusation against them. You do still have to say something about the vote, something about why they deserve it in a deadline situation over any one else. (maybe i'm rusty and don't know how that works and am just looking for the ideal situation to occur)

[nonny]

EBWOP: also the only thing I know I'm acussed of by tally, is being too town. I asked her a follow up question about it, got no reply. Adel is voting me based on a conclusion she reached day one off of what I think is not much, also on actions I did preform and have said weren't the best way to act.

[nonny]

I voted for a reason, just not a very good reason. My reasonin was that she wasn't contributing much and was being helpful. This is still true, I just am finding tally much more suspicous.

Everyone else's reasoning is pretty much that she isn't helpful or otherwise. That is the dgb wagon in a nutshell, she isn't contributing or explaining anything.

DGB isn't exempt from what I was saying earlier, the only reason I'm ointing out the case on DGB as a lazy one is because i feel it is, and there is nothing to defend in the case against me. If someone else had the most votes for a lazy reason I would be defending that as well.

[nonny]

EBWOP: (keeping think of things after submitting.) Armlx: are you saying you are won to follow a mob mentality, and that disturbing that is useless and/or pointless? Just because everyone say jump doesn't mean you do.

[nonny]

I don't think we should just lock in and give up due to the deadline. Plus you are new, so you don't know that for the past month, we have had little to no activity or discussion. That is the frustrating part.

[nonny]

I don't think we should just lock in and give up due to the deadline.

Flopping around in a 48 hour period usually only makes things worse. It looks to me like there was a solid wagon that you decided to derail.

I didn't derail it. I just didn't believe in it. If it is worthy of action, action will be taken. We have 10 poeple in this game.

I'm not the type of player to vote on a wagon during a deadline that I don't believe in.

[nonny]

Uhm everything I posted explains what made me lose faith. I voted intially because i wanted to day to just end like everyone else did. Then I thought about it and realized that that was a stupid reason to vote, and that I should go after someone i'm more convinced is scum. Thus I did.

[nonny]

I need to stop doing this sorry >.<

what do you mean pre-deadline? I was votin adel and then switched. That deadline has been up for like a week plus. It's not recent.

[nonny]

very insightful glork....great long post about whom you think is scum....so glad your back

[nonny]

Werebear

(due to Phoebus not explaining what made him lose interest in the game, and his weird "kill me" posts, etc., which were also not explained satisfactorally. And I don't understand why Werebear wants to lynch the players who claimed no mod powers... although this might have something to do with not having played much mafia lately; he is not used to how tricksy mods have become?)

I read this first part as, phoebus left with out telling us why. And if you go back and look, he was saying that he wasn't going to be any help to this game because he wasn't interested. Then you yelled at him to stop being lazy and replace himself. I read your posts perfectly clear.

Your other reason on werebear isn't your main one, nor does it seem strong to you since you crack it up to werebear not having played much lately.

I know the deadling has to happen, I'm on of the ones that asked for it. Armlx not having time to catch up wasn't nessacily a point against you, it was me being frustarted because I know if I was in that situation I wouldn't be very happy or helpful. My main point was that when I posted every one had just given up, that is not right to me. But, geez look now poeple are making and effort and thinking...yay! My vote is on your because through out the game even before I joined you were rubbing me the wrong way, for reasons stated previously. You knew pooky would follow your vote, you voted cam then never removed it till the wagon was over. You barely posted, anything besides checking in to see if a deadline were needed or wanted other who weren't posting to replace. You weren't suspicous of marcos until I replaced(would have to double check but i believe this is true) and your only thing against me is I'm too town and that is how IC scum in newbie games play? Uhm this isn't a newbie game, I don't know about you but I don't lump those play styles together either because playing IC and playing with Peers are far different. Plus this is silly reasoning and I hate reverting to this but if I were scum would I seriously change a vote at the last min and bring all this heat upon myself? Would I really be barking up a wall no one else is at when I could be finding reasons to vote DGB or Glork, and just move on to night? I personally don't think so.


I proded glork because multiple poeple wanted him to post. His posting is interesting, some makes sense but when he says axel will die tonight or tomorrow that makes me wonder. Is he claiming to be a vig? Or just making threats?

Logic I'm not sure how to read your most recent post, are you saying that is worked for him cause he suddenly has more insight or that it was better for him to be a shadow?

[nonny]

Glork has 4 votes. So when deadline hits looks like he is the lynch? What time is the deadline?

[nonny]

Logic, why is it that Glork shouldn't change positions on a player? Clueless townspeople gather more information as the game goes on, correct?.

I seconded this question.

[nonny]

unvote, vote logic

I don't see anywhere recently that you pointed out him changing positions. This is a wagon I do believe in. You were on my list of poeple who contribute but barely, just squeking by with some posts but no real insight.

[nonny]

so now we wait....someone want to sent out a prod or change the title something along the lines of "if you died let us know"? This worked more flawlessly last time.

[nonny]

Uhm someone would have pm'd you. Atleast that is what happened the last time from what I recall.

Logic: last time you were told when to open the thread, were you told this time? Or did you just decide on the 48hour deadline? (i know you posted deadline before we went to night but still)

[nonny]

Now thinkin' Feebz/DGB.

Logic, what exactly prompted you to cite that D2 began?

after i unlocked the thread i wanted to bump it to the top so i put that day 2 was beginning.

Oh okay I thought last time you were told day started. Bad memory, that makes sense then.

[nonny]

prodded

[nonny]

okay so just have to find out from werebear

[nonny]

Same question as DGB and logic

Also speculation on why the one night kill? (that we know of)

[nonny]

Why are poeple still insisting non-mod powers = scum?

I'm going to re-read and post more later.

[nonny]

But do we really have the time to eliminate poeple based on this theory? So far those that have died and not had mod duties have been town. So I don't see the point in going through with this theory.

[nonny]

Werebear: not sure where you get that impression but I'm not up for either of those lynches.

Like I said I want a re-read but I am on vacation till tomarrow with limited access.

I think using the same strategy from yesterday is going to lose this game for us, town. Because you are simply saying "I'm up for lynching x and.or y" When we are damn close to lynch of lose. Not really taking anything into account or having any reasoning. We have 41 pages, get some damn reasons on the board, not just gut. Think about interactions from yesterday and before. Do something besides just saying x and/or y are good lynches. Sorry but this is still a mafia game I'd like some sort of arguements, logic, and otherwise.

Logic: you were suspicous of that yesterday because you were worried we were going to get a lynch. You changed your vote too, I'm not the only one.

FOS Logic

you say it's scummy for me to change vote two days from deadline, you changed a few hours from deadline, and it seemed like you just wanted a lynch not really caring who.

Adel: that is the worst reasoning I've ever seen, to implement being this close to lynch or lose, and have no actual effective scum hunting thus far.

FOS Adel

Will post more when i've done me read through and am back from vacation.

[nonny]

Logic: you voted glork a few hours before the deadline. He was not on your suspect list. So you didn't change before I did. I changed from tally to you, I didn't leave a bandwagon besides the DGB one. So I'm not sure what game you are reading. Plus, how is it only my fault you couldn't get a lynch on your number one? Perhaps you just didn't have a good case, because with or without my vote you weren't even close to lynching your number one. It sounds more like you just wanted a lynch and didn't care who.

What did I do that was scummy armlx?

[nonny]

oh okay logic, you were suspicous of glork but never voted him. Sorry my mistake, those happen to humans.

Anyways back from vacation, re-read will take place today.

[nonny]

and if the town lynches me, the vig should kill DGB during the night.

So you do believe there is still a vig? Or are you fishing?

If the former how do you explain the night kills(i know vigs can choose not to kill, just give me an opinion)

[nonny]

I wasn't fishing, I flat out asked.

[nonny]

If you really find that suspicous then why are you vote DGB? Really adel, you seem to have nothing right now. Your big huge theory died a long time about and your blinders had to disappear. How about saying what you supposedly see between tally and I, instead of asking DGB to fish something out for you.

[nonny]

Why are we looking at glork and not elvis_knits for that matter? I think tally just happens to like the logic implications from glork....

[nonny]

Alright that is a legitamate reason. I ussually don't take reputations into much account.....or ussually I just don't know reputations of poeple, especailly when I havn't done a game with them.

[nonny]

I did notice after I posted it was after the deadline. I mainly play at work, so I may have been logged on and reading another game or dealing with a customer. Just because I was logged on doesn't mean I was waiting for this deadline to tick down.

[nonny]

wait did gaurdian actually replace into this game or is he just messing around?

[nonny]

wait did gaurdian actually replace into this game or is he just messing around?

How would you ever know I'm NOT replaced into the game? I mean, it's not like you can ask the mod.

very cute

[nonny]

Adel, you have like ADD.

Preforming my re-read today/tomorrow at work, but I have one smaller game I need to do first. Will have my full write-up at the latest tomorrow at 6pm arizona time(don't know that whole -n GMT thingy)

[nonny]

Axel, admittedly no-one has claimed scum (or the equivalent) yet

That is a joke right? I hope no one was looking for a scum claim...

Still re-reading....it's gonna be a long long long double or triple post when I'm done. i was going to edit it for size but don't really want to leave anything out.

[nonny]

Here it is, very long and I beieve through. Didn't take almost anything out unless it was already answered.

Thoughts as reading the game, some things I edited out since they no longer apply. Sorry if somethings seem choppy.

Wanted a list of everyones cliamed duties
Zu_Faul: none(assumed)
Elvis:

Executioner. When one player reaches majority for lynch, I PM them and they must immediately self-reveal in thread.

Coron: Vote Counts (see his post 1)
Cam: (351)

Claim: I'm the replacer.

Raj: (410) no mod job
Adel: (420) no mod job
Logic: (435)

Anyway, my mod claim is that I am the thread locker and unlocker.

Glork:(431) no mod job
Axelrod: (432)

I am the Player List Maintainer. I keep the first post updated.

Talitha: (442)

I'm the Deadliner.

DGB:(446) no mod job
Pooky: (448)

I am the Prodder. I get to prod people who are neglecting the game.

Phoebus: (449)

Post cleaner. Tags and double posts.

Macros: (455)

yes, the death post alterer would be most happy with a deadline.

Adel was the first person to start "test editing" her posts in the game, even after voting DGB and accusing her of editing zu's post.

Note: zu's post has changed again, what is the point of this?

Rules:
You all know how this works.

perhaps we can write the rules ourselves?

We all have moderated games beofre, we do know how this works.

Adel, I feel like you are trying to lead us astray. Even if we took valuable time and posts to write out the rules, whos there to enforce them? The mod is an omnipotent being in the thread who has more knowledge and is thus able to enforce everything, we all have limited knowledge and nobody could enforce any ruleset that we made.

Adel do you still believe we need strict rules? Or do you think the ame has been going well with out?

Anyone else get the irony of glork editing logic's post saying "no one should edit posts" I still find it a little funny..../random

@Adel: I am with logicticus here, proposing "rules" that we all agree to follow is completely worthless. If the scum if this game are being allowed to make significant edits to other player's posts, including death reveal posts (which destroys the integrity of the game in my opinion), then why would they stop because you proposed a rule?

At this point only poeple apposed to setting up rules are axelrod, logicticus. Later on macros, coron, and raj are against as well.

Logic and axel are pursueing raj's "hyperbole" hunch explaination

People who seem as okay as you can seem considering it's only 83 posts into the game:

logicticus
elvis_knits
Talitha

I don't like that there is no exlaination for this list. And no prompting for it eiter.

Macros' vote makes sense (he can), but I'm confused by the other 3. Phoebus votes me in a post where he describes how he thinks the scum likely to be responsible for editing zu's post is a non-native speaker -- I like to think of myself as rather proficient in the language.

Tally's vote is completely unexplained, and Pooky's vote was just an echo of Tally's -- to re-iterate, the fact that Pooky is contributing to a bandwagon without taking any of the responsibility for having to justify his vote is why I am currently voting for him.

QFT on the mathcam wagon.

Elvis is the next on the cam wagon. Also states

I am unsure whether the people railing against our self-policing are likely to be scum or town. I think it is not productive though. I would consider anyone who cheats to have lost themselves the game. I'm not really scared that people are going to abuse the freedom we have been given. Perhaps I am too much of an optimistic, trusting person.

on makeing rules.

Glork and logic against cam wagon
Raj says he wants to jump on but doesn't want cam at -1, even though that means it's 5 to lynch, hen it's actually 7. Misrepresentation that everyone jumps on.

its hard because i want to beleive that pooky tally and ek are town. but i know i shouldnt trust them.

Found this post interesting. See nothing in the thread to make him say this, I'm assuming it's meta since he was just vanilla town(presumably).


Logic teams up with cam to go against pooky. Macros unvotes, DGB jumps in. Elvis asks for a claim. Cam is at the same amount of votes he was ealier why would he claim now. Unsure why a townie would ask that and be so die hard on a band wagon already.

Phoebus has posted twice at this point with only 0 words a piece.....a trend that doesn't let up.

I am 95% sure that you wagoned Cam first and then sought reasons to suspect him once I asked you if your "suspicion" was legitimate. This is almost always indicative of scum seeking a mislynch.

On DGB's "reasons" for going on cam wagon. I agree with this statement.

Nah, mathcam's been rising the hair in the back of my neck. Do you really think that scum would aggressively pursue a mislynch on page 4? First wagons never lead to a lynch, why would I compromise myself if I were scum?

This being said I generally accept your assessment of what is a stretch and what isn't.

Very bad defense. Plus does it make a difference it was page 4? Not really either way, no matter what page it is it's a bad defense.

Now cam is at l-1, due to raj vote. Phoebus is encouraging cam's death because it will give information, but says reasons aren't needed. Glork says a claim is needed.

Pooky switches to gork for his "abuse" on DGB

A)She's not that good at defending herself
B)She's got enough of a rep on this site to be easily bandwagonable
C)She's an easy day one target
D)He knew he could get her to post 5 reasons, being its day one he knew they wouldn't be that good.

Making it so cam doesn't have to claim.

To "answer" your request, I'm going to respond probably exactly as you expect me to:
I don't have five made up reasons to suspect DGB. I have two good, solid, legitimate ones.
1) She wagoned Cam for the sake of trying to achieve a quick lynch based on her recent "FIRING SQUAD" notion, when I think this that her behavior in this instance is seriously detrimental to the town
2) As I explained earlier, she fired first and then went looking for reasons. If she'd named her two good reasons up front and settled on a Camwagon, I would have been absolutely fine with that. If she'd thrown down the two good reasons and one or two of the bad ones, I may or may not have given her leeway. She didn't do either of them.

I agree with this.


What disappointing is most of this game is just (now) known townies fighting each other. If I didn't know they were townies and they were alive there would be plenty of suspects...odd.

Logic and tally are both severly lacking participation during the cam wagon but are voitng on it...Phoebus too but he has actually post more then them at this point. Coron is MIA(obv.)

Adel(#214) Starts being completly against the cam wagon. Gets tally to unvote as well. This alone makes me inclined to think adel isn't scum. But also makes me

FoS Tally

she started the wagon and waited 6+ pages to unvote or even post anything further on it.

DGB still wants a claim, is against raj wagon. Not sure if she is scum at this point, she just seems like a confused townie...

I just want to hear the "Alignment" part of your claim. I don't really care about the "Role" part. I agree that the "Role" part could be town/scum equally and there's not a real basis to tell the difference. But not the "Alignment" part, so I don't get what you are saying there.

Then why are you now saying one none mod power person has to be scum? This is pointless to go on this far in the game.

. I have not been assuming that everyone has Mod. powers (or rather, Mod. duties). Completely vanilla townies seem very possible.

Speculation: so for three person teams have been mentioned "cam-macros-glork" "dgb-raj-glork" "macros-elvis-cam" I'm wondering is it just standard that 3 person mafia is assumed? Upon reading it occured to me logistically you can't have a doc or cop in this set-up. Cop can't just pm someone say "hey i'm investigating you please tell me if your innocent or not, cherrio!" Doesn't work. So with the two kills it's either a one hit vig and a mafia team or an sk and a mafia team. They may have targets the same person night two? Role blocker doesn't work either "sorry no action for you tonight, just trust me it's not there if you have one?"

[nonny]

Did someone end up deleting any of SL's posts? Because post 259 doesn't make sense unless something got deleted...no that vital but I would like to know if things were deleted.

Cam was at l-5, Raj and DGB were L-4 each. No one asked for a DGB claim....though she was closer. From what I can tell (I wasn't throughly counting) But cam wasn't ever at l-1 except for 2 posts. .....Adel points this out in a jokeing manner here

I would love for a couple of people to switch their votes to DGB to give her a taste of her own medicine.

DGB you are at -4 to lynch! Why haven't you claimed yet!

oh, wait, was I supposed to say she is at lynch -1?

ok then:

DGB you are at -1 to lynch! Why haven't you claimed yet!

Protown:
EK, Cam, Adel, Phoebus, Glork, probably Axel

Scum:
Raj

So our other two scums are among:
DGB, Macros, Pooky, Coron, Logic, Tally

His orginal list, interesting that logic seems to have stayed on possible scum. (though he was wrong about raj...)

First off let's get this straight,

I'm protown

. As much as I'm all for letting people know who you think is town and scum, I think it is poor play(after all once you have made a decision on something, even if for poor, or no reason, you have a tendency to think that what you decided was right) and also a minor scum tell to list off a bunch of people as simply "protown" on day 1 with hardly any info at all.

Bolded the part I don't feel right about....why the sudden statement after so much lurking?

Debate over the "word" which i think I now understand, but still consider silly. THough I may be mistaken because I believe the last letter wouldn't tell you much new....*checks* yep last letter wouldn't give you much.....*shrug* agree with cam on the matter

You are advocating cheating because of the possibility that the scum are cheating. I suspect that Marcos' missing post could very well be similar to Shadowlurker's presence: simply a test of our maturity.

I'm starting to agree with this....

Adel unleshes her "cam-marcos-elvis" group. I still wonder what changed her mind on the cam wagon. And wonder her sentiments on it now that cam and elvis are town

Apparantly the switch is due to that infamous word....

Glork and axelrod against Adel's pairing.

Logic, axelrod, tally, phoebus, macros, coron all still lurking to some extent All of whom came out of the wood work to claim mod powers and then went back to essentially nothing.

Poeple doubt phoebus' mod job but that is the only one questioned. post 463 phoebus willing to be replaced(isn't until much later)

Whole thing over the edited deathposts. Since you guys are so keen on trusting glork

P sure he's innocent, guys, even if he did bungle the first death post completely.

Coron finally counts and raj was lynched over 100 posts ago on post 419.

Axel, Glork, Mathcam, elvis all voted earlier, then talitha voted in post 306, then macros voted in post 415, then phoebus hammered in post 419.

Due to the fact no one noticed the hammer no one talked about it. How come every one was keeping track of cam's wagon but not raj's?

Pooky and cam's deathscenes are posted. Macros added the "useful" information after being yelled out for taking it out. I know one thing that was taken out is that cam said I was willing to replace(I pm'd him when you were looking to replace phoebus or coron). But macros thought it was something in pooky's thread....(still all the billion usefulls are annoying)

So, what do people think of 2 deaths? Is there a vig at work? Seeing as people were suspicous of mathcam yesterday it seems like a possibility.

qft also interesting coron bring it up first.

Coron has been the worst contributer by a fair margin in the game. And his "also: vote DGB" just now is classic scum voting.

I also note that Glork has come out quickly against DGB this morning as well (this is not to say DGB is therefore clear - some kind of bussing plan is a possibility - but that seems less likely when no scum are down yet).

Feeling it more on Glork than Coron. I really didn't like the "Die scum Die" post at the end of the day yesterday. Can we say Over the Top?

Do you still feel coron is a threat now that you know glork is town?

Phoebus is the only one that pulls the "poor dead townie" routine. I ussually find that a scummy thing to do.

GLork comments on his town/scum list after prompting from coron. Wonder why coron wants to know exactly

Axel's lower on my list, naturally. Phoebus' claim is iffy.

Logic and axelfrod are now active, more so than ever. But tally is still lurking. Even after a prod.

I have good feeling reads on exactly 2 people (Elvis Knits and Logicitus). Everyone else could easily be scum.

Phoebus
Talitha
Glork
Coron
Macros
DGB
Adel

I think there's 3 scum in that group of 7. Out of that group, Phoebus, Talitha, Coron, and DGB have been lurking fiends. Macros has not been exactly lurking, but almost totally worthless in terms of overall contribution. So what am I supposed to make of that?

Axelrod do you still feel this way about logic, or the other poeple you seperated in your lists? (obv exclude elvis)

Tally posts, here suspicions are due to an "itch" when reading their posts. Something she is still doing now. Any actual reasons for anything?

Something I was thinking about Pheobus is how his and Macros voted very close to each other to put the last two lynching votes on raj. None of us noticed, so maybe they didn't notice either. VC's were not plentiful. But Pheobus voted withing a few posts of Macros vote, and I keep wondering if he knew he was lynching raj.

I too am wondering this after re-reading.

Phoebus wants a replacment or to just follow wagons. Phoebus is lazy about getting replaced even after logic points out cam said nonny(hey that me!) was willing to replace. Tally yells at phoebus and then apologizes.

Axelrod posts a list and assumptions about the game. He tries to clear tally on mod power alone. I find this all very WIFOM and why would you say

Talitha is least likely scum based on Mod. power alone.

I don't think any townie would try to clear someone so easily.

FOS axelrod

on that alone.

then moves on to macros

Because if he were scum, he would have cheated. I can't believe his role (as Scum Death Post Editer) would have made it okay to remove critical information from the posts, like the alignment and role of the deceased player. That just makes the game unplayable (as discussed before). No, if he were scum, I'd call it cheating, flat out. As a townie who just screwed up though, it's completely possible.

Again trying to almost clear someone on power alone. Do you still feel this was axelrod?

3rd least likely (in my opinion) is "Executioner." Because that would just be such an odd role for a scum to have. I mean, they are already trying to kill the town, and one of them has a separate role that says "When a player is lynched you send them an instruction telling them to reveal themselves in the thread." This would presumably include their fellow mafia? That's just weird.

trying to clear this one seems silly to me.(now elvis is cleared) But I don't see why that role couldn't have been scum, would have made sense since they would also be the one to say "oi we night killed you go post" but seeing as now we know it's not, it's a moot point, but still he is stretching to clear certain roles/players.

Right now I'm going with one out of Glork, DGB, Adel (most likely Glork - but I'm hating how DGB disappeared and then just posts "Talitha is town" with nothing else) and Two out of Coron, logiticus, Phoebus (most likely Coron and Phoebus).

Still feel this way about the latter part?

(all from post 653 btw)

Adel was the only one to switch vote due to this post by axelrod. She then goes after DGB. DGB just said "axel and tally are town" no reasoning...

What I do like is that tally asks DGB for reasoning, but only after axel is added to the picture. She never asked when it was just her...

Werebear replaces phoebus. First action accuse everyone that doesn't have a power. Then stumbles over himself when pointing out raj...Later werebear says DBG is the first to claim no mod powers, but it was actually raj. Reading is tech.

I guess I'm thinking about a one week deadline. Any objections?

I might approve, but only if you said you were ready to lynch someone and actually argued for why. You've really got no business setting a deadline if you aren't doing anything to push the game forward yourself. You are still voting Logiticus based on an "itch" right? So is he the one you really want lynched?

It's funny re-reading this I think tally is trying to show how scum can't abuse the deadline power is they want. But that could be reading into it. I agree with axel's response. But noticed it seems like an example of how the power is used.

I replace, macros

Adel brings up her case again after I point out if DGB is lynched we would just be in limbo till she is back from vacation. I still find it odd she switched to suddenly. What do you think of the case now, based on my play and elvis & cam being town?

Tally is lurking again...her "usefull" information is to vote adel. When I and logic prompt her for more reasonsing she says we must just want her to "make something up" This has been her play style all game, lurk, vote, wagon, gut/itch no reasoning.

FoS tally

for general unhelpfullness.

Axelrod: you are the one that pointed out that the front post changed. And you are the one for changing it. Pot calling the kettle black there.

Adel notes

Note that mathcam was killed off by the scum, who I named as a third person in my expected scum team, which is a common way to discredit scum team theories.

in post 750. I still wonder why she would say that with any level of certianity. Other than to validate her case.

Adel and I had a lot of arguements back and forth that almost no one joined in...Lukerfest sucks

Oh, completely off-topic comment. I was actually thinking about this game the other night, and I've come to the decision that if I am to be lynched or nightkilled at some point, I would gladly take over as "mod" of the game full-time, so as to take the distraction of handling mod-related duties from the players. This stems from the whole "I feel like I'm too busy trying to figure out what we're supposed to be doing and not really playing mafia" sentiment I've held up to this point.

Wonder if he still feels this way? Would actually be nice?

a small theory is churning around in my mind.. it involves the two that got replaced. Phoebus never really gave us a straight reason... (IIRC) he just said it was painful and he couldnt couldnt continue. I think a townie would have given more of an explanation before actively replacing themself. I think the reason he didn't explain is because the reason had to do with his role, as scum. Maybe he wasn't happy with his scum buddy (Macros?) early play.

I find this theory a little lacking. Phoebus was disinterested in the game from the get go barly posting. He mentioned either replace him or just let him ride bandwagons. He was askde to replace by logic and tally. He at some points was more active than tally.

Adel:

She has been very opportunistic throughout the game, always wanting to be on the latest wagon, imo. In my post 598, I detailed that a bit. However, even before and since then she jumps around far too much for my liking and very often without any sort of reason for the vote jump.

Do you still feel this way logic? I agree with this post and made a similiar one before you made this one.

DGB now states logic and nonny are town. Why does she randomly do this? It's somewhat annoying, and very unhelpful.
Tally asks why DGB thinks I'm town, but doesn't ask about logic...that is odd. (#827)

Logic step forwards to replace coron. Either he is a fed up townie, or fed up with his scum partner? Seems to be the former. Armlx replaces.

[nonny]

Everyone starts listing off thier suspects. Some are valid some are arbitrary, not going to list them all.

Logic posts the list of who is willing to lynch whom. (#866) Votes start switching based on that.

I get frustrated(still am) over none active scum hunting. It's more pointing fingers and wagon jumping that happens.

This in my opinion has been the worst demonstration of scum hunting I've ever seen. It is an aweful way to go about playing a game.

still think that is true.

Armlx is after me for de-railing the lynch. With 10 active players and his vote not on the majority area either this is hypocritical at best.

That's my reasoning? Wow. And I yelled? Gosh, if you are town and want to convince me of this, you'd do better not to misrepresent me, and you'd do much better to read my actual damn posts properly before trying to state my reasoning for me. This REALLY annoys me.

Uhm what? you just said

And thanks for digging up the Phoebus quote.

Yes I can see how it looked like I forced him out a little. I was frustrated because Phoebus said he would vote for the leading bandwagon and that would be the only contribution he would make to the game.

But yeah, he never explained why he lost interest in the game and my gut (I know Phoebus pretty well) says that there is more to it that he is not telling us. And I don't know why he wouldn't just give the reason if he were town.

about 10 pages ago. nice flip flop.

Glork's big reply to axelrod. Logic and elvis try to say this is new for glork. But really it isn't. Glork even had a "hunch" page one. He has had comments on axel all game. Armlx is defending axelrod by saying he doesn't agree with glork on more of the points. Small wagon on logic from tally, glork, and my self(accidently posted after deadline).

Glork was townie. The page and half of who's dead?

I wrote a whole post on this, you know. It's just a theory that not ALL the scum were given Mod. duties in this game, as opposed to the bunch of townies who were not given duties. Aesthetically, that makes sense to me. So it's more of a process of elimination thing, although there may be other reasons to vote one of those people completely aside from the lack of Mod. duty.

I find this detracting from real scum hunting.

Tali, it was an unvote of DGB. Her starting the wagon is irrel. The disaster is someone starting a wagon and it having to finish in 2 days if it is to end in a lynch, which can end in either A) a no lynch or B) a mislynch based on inadequate investigation of a person's actions. And C) DGB is still alive.

Uhm....I unvoted due to B. We didn't investigate her, it was more like "I don't like how she is posting" Logic pointed out more poeple were willing to vote her, so poeple voted her.

So 1 out of the 4(?) players with no assigned mod duties being scum still fits. 1 out of 3 would fit a little less well, but not by much.

So if we lynch you based on this you are fine with it, or are you exempting yourself? This is poor logic, even if generated randomly it's possible for the mafia to all have powers esp if there are only 2 mafia.

I'm concerned she could be using this as a convenient means of lynching yet one more townie and then going for the win tonight. I also don't like the way she just jumped on and off and on again on DGB, apparently due to confusion about the overall number of players in the game.

I have this concern too.

Adel and DGB saying everyone should pick between the two of them. I find this narrow, and baised to say the least. I don't see town wanting to narrow the choice so drastically. Also we are back to the lazy I'll vote x or y, make a wagon and I'll follow it but won't start it, yay!

Tally and I are somewhat friends, we did go to jeepfest together and have talked a lot off and on over the years, not sure if that accounts for the relationship adel alludes to.

So, what do people think of Glork's suggestions for scum, now that we know Glork was town? At the least I'd like everyone to take a look at logicticus, and make a judgment... town or scum... ?

Sure glork voted for logic but he put together a bigger case on axelrod. He voted logic after you did, tally, so is that why you are going there first?

Also, I sometimes try and act very "scummy" when I'm town, so I don't base my vote solely on how scummy someone is acting.

this is odd, I've never thought any one would act scummy while playing town.....trying to clear any behavior slips that are made? If you don't think poeple scummy because they act scummy how do you determine it?

DGB now states she thinks adel is town(first time she wasn't certian) after adel's quesitoning of werebear.

The tally adel buss your partner conversation confuses me a bit. But also in a game this far along with no scum dead why would a player need to "buss thier partner" Assuming I have the right defination of that.

Adel keeps changing her vote around, even after being so set on DGB from the begining, she even orginally said she would vote her till the day was done(in reply to DGB"s same sentiment)

I re-did from page 42 like 5 times cause at work they kept closing my windows. From all this I am still a bit confused. But my lists of suspects are in order as follows: Axelrod, logic, Adel, coron/armlx tied phoebus/werebear, tally, dgb. Yes I suspect almost everyone for one reason or another.

I find the most likely pair to be tally-axelrod with the third person I'm uncertain of. I would like my post to be read, it took me a lot of time. Almost 2 full days of time at work 16+/- hours.

vote axelrod

[nonny]

I made some obvious typos sorry >.< If something doesn't make sense ask and I'll clarify.

[nonny]

Specifically to the older or newer stuff i included?

[nonny]

How does it benefit a townie to clear someone? It doesn't. It's the same with townlists. Atleast to me, it puts that person in a different area because they appear town, but even worse he was using mod duties to clear someone. It's not like the duties are roles like cop, doc, miller, whatever. I don't see how or why you would clear someone based on it. And from recent posts he is still clearing tally with little to no explaination.

Right, sorry logic. Bound to have a couple errors. Just tally was on the wagon. Thanks for actually answering what was directed at you. It did take a lot of time.

[nonny]

I never said it was unbaised in fact i said

Thoughts as reading the game, some things I edited out since they no longer apply. Sorry if somethings seem choppy.

It's my thoughts as reading the game....duh.

I do agree on one thing - if the vig isn't a one-shot, tonight's a good night to pick someone to kill if we don't nab a mafia with the lynch. Even if you are a one-shot, I'm pretty sure the mod won't yell at you if you maturely decide that you have TWO shots instead of one. Yes, I know this is going to get me yelled at, but hopefully all the TOWN are mature enough to realize that if there are 3 mafia alive tomorrow, the game is over.

Very defeatest attitude. What makes you think it's right and okay to cheat in this game solely because the town isn't doing it's job in scum hunting? Have you ever played a game where the mod was like "well they aren't going to win so let me give them x advantage"? didn't think so. Either you are trying to validate yourself, or know we are going in the wrong direction with our "scumhunting" Either way I don't find your attitude very pro-town.

huge FoS werebear

[nonny]

I didn't say I thought he was scum over it, I said I thought he wasn't pro-town. There is a difference. Not like I voted over it either.

1) there's 3 scum
2) the town has just lynched a town, leaving 7 town alive
3) there's a vigilante, they were told they only had one shot, and they used it.

Simple we don't win. Because we didn't use all the resource we had to scumhunt and became a lazy town. We don't get to bend the game in our favor just because we can't scumhunt properly, plus I wouldn't want to win that way in the first place. You were basically making a choice and trying to force it on everyone. How about instead of thinking automatically that we are going to lose if you don't cheat(making a role work outside of it's capacity is cheating!) you actually activly scumhunt!!!

You haven't contributed almost anything other that at first thinking someone with out a mod power must be scum!!! And now you retract that? How about actually saying who you think is scum or not? How about pointing out suspicions? How about actually playing the game without bending the rules to suite your needs and wants?

I don't see why you would even suggest this, and personally I just think it's a distraction from scumhunting. Plus I'm still waiting on poeple to answer the questions I directed to them in my huge summary of thoughts post.

[nonny]

I said I thought he wasn't pro-town.

Yes, but your FoS implies you think that his anti-town behavior (which it is not) was scummy.

FoS= finger of suspicion. Someone can do something suspicious without it nesscacrily being scummy or a scum tell for that matter. Like self voting, it is suspicious but not nesscarily scummy. Doing something suspicious can be anti-town, but not nesscarily pro-scum. Therefore you are wrong trying to dictate what i find suspicious. If I had voted him based on it I may listen to the critisim on it. The FoS is merely me pointing out that the behevior is not pro-town and is not I think appreciated.

[nonny]

armlx, that is more a matter of opinon which I pointed out. I don't think this subject needs further discussion as it is only detracting from actually doing something useful for the town to win.

[nonny]

Can you explain how something can be suspicious and not scummy?

As soon as you tell me how it's helping us scum hunt I can.

Tally: is there a deadline or not at this point?

Everyone else: where are you? The game is over here *waves*

[nonny]

Actually tally on my re-read you moved further down(away) on my scum list. I'm not baised towards you being scum. I just know you can do better so it's frustrating. I accept your explanation of the lurking, doesn't mean you are cleared in my book just means it is taken into account. Plus, I don't really meta so I won't be needed that.

Werebear: I understand what you were trying to do, I just believe that it is the right thing to even consider. Thanks for moving on. Who are on your scumlist and why?

Right now, my biggest concern is the missing players. Much as I enjoy talking to you three, armlx, Talitha, and nonny, I wouldn't mind hearing from others as well.

QFT, but i did all the prods last game day, so someone else should do them I think.

I'm shocked adel went to being completly active to not active at all. Last game day it was mostly me and her for the good majority of it.

Armlx: while you do have a big ole post count looking through your posts they seem lacking, mostly one lines. Also noticed you essentially hammer'd glork. So, was that you changing your deadline vote(even though you just said you would for DGB) or is that you following a bandwagon?

[nonny]

That quote is from you not glork, right?

[nonny]

I thought you were on the no mod job = scum wagon. What made you change, yet again? It's not like we have a deadline, this is the time where you actually discuss. Maybe look over my case and questions directed at you? Are you still trying to push your case from day one? Were macros was only scum by association, so if the other two weren't scum then the association doesn't hold. How about your "new" reasons then?

You are jumping around so much no wonder nothing is being accomplished and you feel it's pointless. If you jump that many times then nothing happens.

If no one else is willing to I will send out prods.

[nonny]

1. macros changed posts, got caught, (or confessed out of fear), and then got himself replaced by you.

I completely forgot about the post edit. That is anti-town AND scummy.

Everyone has said that, so apparantly it wasn't that scummy. I'm not going to justify it anymore, because it not something I did nor did I have control over it. It just was.

Maybe adel since you want the town around so bad to lynch me then you can send out the prods, I've done it 3 times by now. We shouldn't need a babysitter to play a game. Oh and if you actually read my post that I put effort into you will see the questions directed at you. Other poeple have already answered there, I shouldn't have to point yours out.

2. Each day there have been a number of people willing to lynch you, but you have not been lynched
3. Your activity level and approach to this game makes me think that you are narrowly managing to survive by out-typing the townies who would like to lynch you.

2: obviously not enough since i havn't been lynched. And since when is it part of mafia that if everyone does it, it must be the right thing to do! Because we are all brainless and just follow what others do? Last time I checked that was a scumtell.

3: I'm active because I care about this game and find it interesting, but right now it's a load of bollocks. I actually read this game before being part of it and went out of my way to replace in, but with the current activity level I regret that. Since no matter how many times poeple are prodded they just go back to ignoring this game, the time we had the most accomplished was the 24hours leading up to deadline. Everyother time it's not balanced contribution. So you're saying my having time to post in this thread atleast once a day while no one else seems to have that time or want is a scumtell? Please show me the logic there.

[nonny]

Everyone has said that, so apparantly it wasn't that scummy

Explain your point here.

If something like that is so utterly scummy, I would think poeple wouldn't forget it. Especially poeple that are voting for macros' replacement aka me. So either it's not that scummy, or it's not note worthy. Either way I think it's weak.

I'm logging off now, as you can tell i'm a little frustrated with this game right now.

[nonny]

Okay. What don't you like about it? Saying you don't like something can be construed as you saying you think it's "scummy." Is that what you mean here? If so, what's scummy about it (in your opinion). I do this all the time, and I do not think that making a list of people you are feeling good/bad about at any particular moment in time is ever a scummy thing.

Doing lists like that randomly I don't have a problem with. My problem is you gave no reasoning. You had almost no comments on these poeple or towards them and then suddenly made your list.

This is one of those questions that makes me think you are talking to hear yourself talk and not actually paying attention, considering I had just made another list and Coron/Armlx was sitting right at the top of it. Did you just miss my post or something?

No, I didn't miss your post, but mine was chronological. So I already wrote an apology if anything was outdated.

And here's the complete misrepresentation. I was absolutely NOT trying to "clear" Talitha from being scum with that post. One would have thought that was clear from the context. I was playing a game - out guessing the Mod. and speculating on what Mod. duties made the least sense for scum, such that if EmpTyg. had picked who got what, what would he have been more/less likely to pick.

It read like you were trying to clear her, and you did so again in your latest town/scum post. If you weren't doing so fine, that is how it read though. I'm not the only one that had comment on it.

You say "I don't think a townie would try to clear someone so easily," the implication being that you do think a scum would try to do it? Why is that, exactly?

Scum know who is town. So they could easily say I believe so and so to be town. Then when that person dies/is killed/ lynched/whatever, they can be like see! I was right! I must be great at reading poeple. Townies don't know who the other townies are, maybe I play to cautiously but clearing poeple is just bad play in my mind.

Again you accuse me of "stretching" to clear townies (which is wrong), but at least here we now know Elvis was, in fact townie. And presumably you know yourself to be townie, yes? So I have been "stretching" to clear at least 2 and possibly 3 townies. Why would I ever do this as scum? Why "stretch" at all?

And if this is just you again pointing out something you don't like, but without having any reason to think it's scummy, then....why?

Already answered why stretch at all. And by even making that arguement it's like inviting someone to speculate that you think tally is town, 2 out of 3 is right. I have no reason right now to speculate on your impression of the third or why you need to point out 2 out of 3. I don't see why scum wouldn't lump a partner in the list with out townies to try and validate the list.

Pointing it out because it rubs me the wrong way. The act it self is not pro-town in my opinion.

That is so completely different from what happened with Macros I can hardly believe you are trying to raise it as a point.

Macros orginally said "hey that said something differnt" than after the speculation on it being DGB is when he made the post you are refering to as scummy. I agree the second type of post you didn't make. But the first you did. I also agree the second one of macros' was stupid.

And I still stand by the point that, without anything better to go on, eliminating both the non-mod. powered people would statistically and logically be better than lynching at random.

Random voting poeple without mod powers won't get us any where either. If anything we will lose the game quicker. I don't get how you can say there is nothing to go on. We have 40 pages, that is just lazy to say there is nothing.

The posts were lengthy, yet superficial. It's like you did this skim re-read of each player and just jotted notes to yourself as you went without any awareness of what had actually happened in the game or the context in which certain posts were made.

No I read every post thourghly and took over 20 hours to do so. If you find it superficial that is your own opinion. I did take a lot of time to do so, and remember most of what i read and the contexts. I do have a few mistakes because i'm human.

Now that lack of support is bothering me, because Glork is far more dangeruous for scum than DGB or I am. It seems to me that the scum advanced the "lynch one of the no mod power players" to get a mislynch, and then abandoned it. Did they abandon it because they saw that DGB would be the next person lynched on that case instead of me? Did they abandon it becuase once Glork was out of the picture they could coast to a win?

Who are the players who were gung-ho for lynching one of the "no mod power" players until Glork was lynched? I'm thinking of Axelrod and Werebear, but am I missing anyone? Do their reasons for no longer wanting to lynch one of the "no mod power" players read as sincere? Is this a signficant tell against DGB?

That first part is very plausible. It was axelrod, werebear, and you at points(but you had/have ADD). Axelrod still want to lynch no mod powers. Only werebear has changed.

and even then I think we are better off trying to lynch actually scummy people today.

QFT

[nonny]

werebear: you havn't had much big posts lately. What are your current stances?

DGB: We would all love you to come a play properly with us.

[nonny]

i assume werebear just meant "TheDrippingGoofball" rather than "DrippingGoofBall"

He has done it before, i believe his first vote was on her as well.

Was that the last of your analysis armlx?

[nonny]

I think I'll do Nonny next though, because I did find myself understanding his one point there, Macros was really scummy, and I want to see if there's anything else to see.

I'm thinking we are either in lynch or lose or very close, and you want to lynch me just so you can see i'm scum and the only reason you have against me is that macros was scummy.......I personally would like a stronger case since we are in this situation. Letting the scum coast to a victory is not in my game plan.

[nonny]

I think I'll do Nonny next though, because I did find myself understanding his one point there, Macros was really scummy, and I want to see if there's anything else to see.

I'm thinking we are either in lynch or lose or very close, and you want to lynch me just so you can see

if

i'm scum and the only reason you have against me is that macros was scummy.......I personally would like a stronger case since we are in this situation. Letting the scum coast to a victory is not in my game plan.

fixed, need to preview from now on

i hate typos, but i do it alot. great now there will be WIFOM over that, but didn't want to leave it fixed and just get quesitons and accusations based on it.


That would be nice tally.

Fine, I'll send out frickin prods since no one else wants to....

[nonny]

The prod was sent to everyone, didn't want to try and see how is active or not.

Ironically I made a typo in my post about hating typos...bah (leave it unfixed*)

[nonny]

axel: first off you are useing the word "schizophrenic" wrong, sorry i don't see thing or hear voices in my head.

Secondly you aren't taking interaction with other players into account. I was orginally after adel due to crap logic that made no sense and couldn't see why she was making such a poor case. The fact that tally jumped on with no reason gave me more insight since even before I replaced in I was suspicious of tally. Then I unvoted adel when tally brought up the "huh why did these poeple get reaplced..scum" logic. You didn't even taken in to account that I can read and listen to other poeple than adel, just because I was voting her doesn't mean I had eyes only for her.

Another thing you don't take into account is that that "day" was over a month long, in that time frame you see new stuff, get frustrated with activity levels, and what not.

she expressed suspicion of DGB - appears to be her top suspect - but then asks "those of you who do support a DGB lynch, do you still now that she is on vacation?"

I wanted to see poeple reactions to this. If they thought DGB was truly scum I don't think the vacation would factor in. However, if they themselves are scum going after an easy lynch then they would care, because it would slow down things and also take longer to get to night.

Even though Talitha has apparently agreed that Adel is scummiest, Nonny want to know her reasons. Perhaps it's just me, and it's certainly possible I've done something similar in my time, but when I'm making a case on someone, and voting for them, and someone else comes along and agrees and also votes for the person I am voting for, I don't typically do what Nonny does here.

I don't typically ever like poeple just jumping on a wagon whether it's one i'm starting/on or not. It's scummy and wrong. Rather thier be reasons stated as there were none I questioned it.

You post makes it seem like i'm only allowed to have one suspect at a time and good forbid I switch or try to interact and question multiple poeple. Tally was a suspect from the begining why wouldn't i question a wagon jump from her?

Also, you make it sound like scum would never vote for one another, this is bs and you know it. Since you've been playing for as long as you had to point out, do scum ever place a vote on thier partners?

Nonny's first stated opinion is that she doesn't think that the Mod (EmpT) would have designed the game with the same ratio of Town/Scum as Mod. Powered/Non-Mod. powered, because that would be too obvious. This opinion is neither here nor there with me. It might be right, it might not be, and no one who is not scum really can know at this point.

Then why even point it out? If it doesn't matter then why does it matter? Am I not allowed to speculate on something, or keep the same opinion through out the time i'm in the game. Because if you noticed I still think this is the case, and that it's a waste of time to out guess the mod about no mod powers= atleast one scum.

Furthermore, I believe your way of analysis is poor. Looking at only one person at a time doens't take into acount interactions with other nor what was happening at the time in the game. IF this was the only thing scummy you'd done I'd still go on it. Also you took more into account your opinion then mine, like when you said adel hadn't done anything that was convincing enough to remove a vote, that is your view. Also, why does adel have to be the one doing something convincing...tally did something convincing me she was scummy.

Right now my gut and logic leads me to believe it's a axel-tally pairing. Esp, with how he was almost defending tally in a subtle way. Sure at the time what I had against her was lurking, but I also pointed out when she did vote it was to ask if we need a deadline or otherwise. Her actual posts lead me to the conclusion too, as well as her inactivity. You also said my suspicions came out of the blue when i switched near deadline? But yet you say one of my first suspects was tally. You give no "analysis" of my orginal case against her when i voted and don't even mention I had one. When someone is inactive as she was/is(even if she has IRL stuff going on she was inactive) it takes more time to analyize thier beheavior because at first there is less to go on. Also, the fact that tally is trying to say we should go off glork and lynch logic due to it. While yes she was voting logic at deadline, she disregarded that axelrod was glorks biggest case and suspect. It's been ignored, though their is the most to go off of for a cse on axelrod.

I think I covered everything I need to about the case against me, if i missed something i'll address it.

Basically I'm very happy with my vote.

[nonny]

DGB, how about giving reasons for stuff instead of saying "so and so is town" "so and so is scum" why not share your insights with us then? hmmm?

[nonny]

DGB: what about his post would a scum not do? I find it a very scum way to do an analysis post, personally.

Armlx: i must have missed it could you direct me to where you had your case on werebear or re-create it? (totally serious, just so you know, no sarcasitic, really want to see your case)

[nonny]

To get townie points. We have in the past had a heated arguement on the ethics of the game between elvis and adel. Scum would know this and suggest something knowing no one would ever preform it based on what side poeple took in the arguement and who is left alive. Simply so they could say what you just said.

FoS werebear

for that very thing.

[nonny]

I wasn't only voting tally for her lurking or otherwise. It was rather the content of what she had posted. That is my only reply now because i"m in a rush to get to work soon.

To axel and tally: the vote is not what I found/find suspect. IT that the next day she clenched on to glork being town to further her own needs while disregarding someone glork posted far more meat on. Especially since tally herself hasn't post much on logic. WHile I do agree logic's behavior at deadline was suspect, right now it's lowered on my scumdar.

Is there a point to saying I voted after deadline? I didn't realize It was deadline till after I posted it. I was reading another game and thinking it over then thought it was suspicous and rushed over to vote, alas to late.

More response to come, perhaps if they are needed after i read more thouroughly...

[nonny]

In 999 Nonny asks why people are insisting that non mod powers = scum. However, so far in the day, werebear decided against it not for it and nobody else has brought it up. whats the deal?

At the time someone said something that made me think they were alluding to the mod powers thing, went back to check and can't find it, but yeah...realized later i misunderstood anyways.

I'm not sure what I am supposed to take into account here. That people can get frustrated and do strange things?

That i may had thoughts about the game and new insights?

I see no evidence that this was your reasoning, that you questioned anyone about their voting of DGB or ever followed up this in any way. So, I mean, you can say this is what you were doing, but it does not appear to me that is what you were doing.

I'll give you that, but it was my intention granted i didn't state it.

I'm totally taking into account "interactions" and what was happening in the game at the time (or at least, I'm trying to). I don't see where you can legitimately accuse me of this, so maybe you can explain better what I said that (in your opinion) wasn't taking into account the interactions and what was happening in the game.

Mostly where you were tlaking about my unvote of adel and how it had to of come from adel herself, but then make it look like i was using your reasoning. While the reasoning I posted was about her being helpful and active, it was also due to what tally had just posted being interesting and me wanting to pursue questioning elsewhere. I guess I should have documented that..



All prods were picked up.

[nonny]

It is interesting that I have had that many poeple vote me. Show me where this scummy behavior is though. I, for obvious, reasons don't see myself as scummy. At this point I don't mind getting it over with, but I don't want town to lose from it either. I find the fact that you are going after me and not DGB(the person you said was scummiest) more telling though.

[nonny]

Macros's edit of the death post and more or less lying about doing it.

Anything else? Anything more like recent? or that was me perchance so I know what was going through the head of the person doing it? I've answered to that one suffieciantly I think and have nothing more to add to it.

[nonny]

Uhm.....that is a leap. This is most likely a vanilla game, for someone to die they would have to be murdered. How is there any question about that? Also, that was most likely his attempt to add flavor that he talked about when he fessed up, and which makes sense when he said no one was liking it and what not.

[nonny]

When i first read the game I assumed it was a NK too. It's day one, it's most likely a night kill.

The thought on it being a vanilla game wasn't assumed till later, but now i'm pretty confidant this has to be a vanilla game in order to work.

[nonny]

It would have some merit if it had a bigger case around it, right now it just seems like grasping at straws to me.

[nonny]

I know what you are both saying but does that mean that my point has absolutely no merit?

oh i thought you were addressing me and armlx

[nonny]

I'm still here and reading, don't see anything to comment on. Been busy, will post more later as needed.

[nonny]

Uhm....one was just posted. Way to keep up werebear

[nonny]

I didn't twist your words, I very clearly said that it looked like you were twisting phoebus' arm to make him finall leave the game. Whether or not he was just being a bandwagon leech you did twist his arm. Way to try and make your self look better while trying to discredit me.

Still confidant axel and tally are the scum.

[nonny]

bah so lazy.

Tally that is a stretch, since previously I have said that I believe you and axel to be scum and that I'm not sure if or who the third one is.

At this point I almost just want to be lynched so you guys will listen to me, and so we can move on and/or be productive in actually scum hunting and not just pointing fingers with little to no reasoning.

[nonny]

At this point I almost just want to be lynched so you guys will listen to me, and so we can move on and/or be productive in actually scum hunting and not just pointing fingers with little to no reasoning.

Except we are probably in LyLo.

Right....that is the only reason standing out at this point. Yet, players like DGB, tally, Adel are convinced the best way to approach this day is to just find someone the most poeple will vote for and lynch them with out presenting much is any reasoning. So that if god forbid it's not lylo there is stuff to work off of tomorrow >.<

[nonny]

While i did find his attempt to ask the "vig" to cheat very scummy so far he is not on the top of my list, so no I wouldn't. I don't believe he is scum. I already clearly stated whom I believe to be scum and why. I'm not going to settle for werebear just to get a lynch, espescailly not in this stage of the game. As pointed out for all we know it's lylo.

[nonny]

it is presenting an idea that will not be carried out, so for scum it is a chance to build townie cred without risking much.

Basically that.

Also, I have already stated before why I find it scummy. It's mostly WIFOM which is why I don't currently find werebear himself scummy just that one action.

[nonny]

huh i didn't even notice that......don't really like it either. Phrasing like that always bugs me, personally.

[nonny]

since i understand where he is coming from I'm not willing to lynch him, but it is making me question him more. Bah....i don't want to re-read. May do just a werebear re-read though. But still confidant with axel and tally suspicions.

[nonny]

I love being bait >.< seriously it's wonderful.

[nonny]

Hey Nonny, look at me, not hammering you! If you can explain why scum me does that to town you...well, I'll be impressed.

WIFOM, don't need to explain that.


Tally: how on earth can you explain werebear/logic/myself as a scum pairing? Only logic is going after a wagon, and you said yourself that scum don't need to buss each other today (paraphrased)

I'm going with my stronger gut.

unvote, vote tally

reasons have been stated for monthes. Still strongly suspect axel though...

[nonny]

Yep because some people just have one theory from day one and never re-anaylze or drop it *cough*adel*cough*

[nonny]

You even gonna ask for a claim or just wait for your buddy to take your hint and hammer?

[nonny]

Sure, claim.

ailgnment or role....?

townsperson, flavorer(make death scenes more interesting)

[nonny]

nonny-5 (Adel, Tally, Logictus, DGB, Armlx)
tally- 1 (nonny)
DGB- 1 (werebear)

(Axel,)

8 alive, 5 to lynch



Good Luck!

[nonny]

So I was right tally was scum??? (then logic and armlx where her partners?) Wow talk about bussing your partner..

This game in retrospect was amazing(ly annoying). Oh well.....guess this makes me appreciate mods more.

Wow was emptyger actually paying attention the whole time?

[nonny]

Seems like the biggest area of concern would be the scum and vig. targeting each other in the Night. What happens if the scum PM me to tell me I am dead before I have decided who to shoot at? What do I do then? Come back with "oh yeah, well, you're dead too, ha ha ha." I think not.

This to me was also the biggest issue that the game could have had. If you killed me and we already sent in our kill, then I could have told my buddies who the vig was. However, since this was a "mature" game I think this would not have happened, but it would have been an interesting dilemma nonetheless.

Huh did even think of that out of all my speculation.

[nonny]

Okay....I'm confused. Can someone clearly post who is scum?

[nonny]

Oh okay.....so I was wrong all across the board. I would say kudos on getting my lynched but I think it was still more town laziness than any real case.

[nonny]

The players in this game, including replacements, were all strong players.

really? yay! I've never been called a strong player ^.^

I liked this set up, it was frustrating but I liked it.