Mature Mafia: Game Over

[nonny]

My point was that they were subtly asking for a claim. Or atleast saying that they had reason to believe you slipped some nk/night info and that a claim would eventually be needed.

I took the intiative to ask. And I added the vig part because, most poeple claim townie this is a fact, it's normally not regarded as specail. And we already have four confirmed(dead) townies. So unless this is a newbie set-up which due to the 2 nks I doubt. I'm assuming there are other roles out there. I was wondering what you would claim that would have anything to do with know the nk/night choices.

[Adel]

And how would claiming help resolve any of this? This is a setup without any doctors, and there is no way there is enough power roles in this setup for there to be safety in numbers.

And why were you asking me to claim at lynch -2? It seemed like you were banking on me being an impressionable newbie or something (saying "this is when people usuually claim" or whatever) and were trying to pressure me into a premature claim when I was in absolutley no danger of being quickly lynched.

[nonny]

You seem to be very certain of a few things which I don't get. You say we have no doctors? How could you possibly know that.

Also you are very certain that there aren't any scum that are going to quick lynch you. How are you so certain of that? Is it due to the lurking, or because you know who the scum are? Or are you just assuming they are already voting for you? Aren't quick lynches usually not predicted, or else people would be able to stop them if they wanted to?

Also In the all mafia I've played waiting till L-1 to claim usually results in you being lynched before you claim or before the claim can be discussed. So in my experience it's claim at L-2.

[Adel]

Also In the all mafia I've played waiting till L-1 to claim usually results in you being lynched before you claim or before the claim can be discussed.

I suspect that I've played more mafia on this site than you have. I know that I've done some abnormally deep research into the mini-normal format, which is what this game basically is, minus a mod. L-1 is typical when there are this many people alive.

There are no doctors in this setup. The mechanic would not work.

You and elvis are voting for me. The two of you are my best guess for scum. The third member of your group is either allready voting for me, or would have to be a fool to hammer me.

Quicklynches do not happen when a game has this low of anactivity level.

If I felt there was a real case against me then I might have to worry about getting lynched.

Since you seem to have the time, would you mind reading back through my posts and answering all of my questions that you have so far avoided?

[nonny]

ok, I'm going to take a stand here. The mathcam wagon is a bullshit semi-random (probably fueled by scum) nonsense.

He shouldn't claim since he shouldn't be at lynch -1!

Someone please unvote him, soonest!

Otherwise, I guess he will have to claim, but it shouldn't come to that.

So when you get to L-1 are you going to claim?

Your opinion orginally on mathcam seemed to change really quickly. He went from being the victim of a bad wagon to be one of your prime suspects. It looks almost based on nothing. The only person you ever had anything "on" was a weak case on elvis. She was your primary objective last day. So it makes me wonder why you are voting for me/marcos.

It was 4 days and 19 posts. What happened inbetween then? The battle between you and elvis regarding that "cheating" scenerio and the "word" Which you said shouldn't have been used against cam, but you also said it proved he didn't know it. Which is a bit contradictory in my mind.

So my point is that you flipflopped onto the elvis, cam, marcos scenerio. And we already know you were wrong(atleast confirmed wrong on cam) Also you case still doesn't hold water, and it's a bit odd that after a whole new day you don't have anything to add to it.

[nonny]

EBWOP: I said in my expierence, I didn't say it was a site wide phenomena. I've seen better out comes for town when they claim at L-2 then L-1, and I've seen a lot of times when a person was ready to claim and they got speedlynched.

[Adel]

cite three games where a lurker-fest turned into a speed lynch when a person was ready to claim but got lynched too quickly. Document the basis of your experience.

My case moved from elvis to you because I see more reasons to suspect you of being scum. It became very clear to me that macros was scum who opted for replacement when he could not explain his actions.

I was against the mathcam wagon, IIRC, because it was a b.s. wagon. I eventually began to suspect that it may accidently be correct.

the whole "word" thing is basically against the mysterious "spirit" of mafia that I keep getting slammed with by Soel and Flay and company in MD.

I chilled out during the beginng of today to look at the game with a wider perspective, attempt to promote more participation and more information from more players. I was happy with the choice being limited to Glork and DGB me for a while as a way of either netting one scum (an assumption based upon based upon an attempt to out-guess our mod) or at least establishing that wasn't a coorelation between lack of claimed mod powers and scum-alignment. I finially became impatient with our lurker-fest and returned to the best theory I have: elvis and nonny are scum together.

If I recall correctly, there was no movement to lynch me until I started to point out how scummy the two of you were together.

Why am I close to lynch right now?

[nonny]

Because your arguement was flimsy. And few poeple were looking at you as a lynch possiblity before your quoted your old theory. It wasn't sudden. Also, you were posting something and poeple started to comment on it and make votes based on it, that is how mafia works. You don't always get voted for speaking, but you do take the chance based on what poeple percieve.

I know of one right off the bat, newbie 616. At the end, not a very speedy in terms of when the first vote was put on, but the last two came very quickly. Right before I was about to vote the scum.

What about phoebus being replaced? What is your opinion on that matter?

The lack of participation is starting to get to me too. And I would like tally and elvis to contribute more(since both are just scratching the surface and then voting, and it's been like that most of the game, more so from tally then elvis). Logic and axelrod are passing by with enough participation, werebear hasn't mentioned any leads only that she want's a real mod. Coron is mia, and glork hasn't posted in ages.

[Adel]

I was glad to see phoebus replaced. I would also like to see Coron and Glork follow if they don't start posting soon.

Why don't we call it a night so that other players can digest our exchange. Our little typing contest has probably taken up enough of everyone's time at this point, especially mine.

what about talitha? why did you leave her off of your activity summery?

[Glork]

In airport. Flight delayed. Trying to re-read and post now. This game was such a damned chore throughout D1 that I just don't feel that I've played much mafia yet. Aside from running up Raj, which was hella fun. But anywho, this is the first game I have ever even

considered

replacing out of due to complete apathy. I'll try to change that, because I don't think it's fair to the other players.

OK, Vanilla Townie =/= no mod powers.

FOS: all those claiming no mod powers

. For cripe's sake, I'm a tag-fixer-and-double-post-deleter. And I can't even do that, with no editing powers, but it's OK, I can handle it, I'm a big boy. No weight jokes here.

Seriously, DGB, Glork, and Adel have all claimed "no mod powers". On the main post, are two dead who never claimed, but odds are at least the first victim had one. Hmm. Did raj actually claim no powers, or just not say anything about a role until his surprise lynch? I can't remember at this point. But at this point, if there's someone suspicious WITH a role, and someone suspicious WITHOUT a role...

This makes me cringe. First, RAJ

did

claim to have no mod powers. Secondly, as a protown player with no mod powers, I cannot fathom how "not having more powers" is FoS-worthy. Would you mind explaining, Werebear?


Oh, completely off-topic comment. I was actually thinking about this game the other night, and I've come to the decision that if I am to be lynched or nightkilled at some point, I would gladly take over as "mod" of the game full-time, so as to take the distraction of handling mod-related duties from the players. This stems from the whole "I feel like I'm too busy trying to figure out what we're supposed to be doing and not really playing mafia" sentiment I've held up to this point.

Okay. Big analysis post by Axel. But now we are boarding. More to come.

[Talitha]

unvote: Adel

I had forgotten that she was the vocal "save mathcam" voice. I just remembered.

And the way Axelrod quoted all those Macros posts together just made me realise the case is a lot stronger than I was remembering.

I shall sleep on it.

[elvis_knits]

Note that mathcam was killed off by the scum, who I named as a third person in my expected scum team, which is a common way to discredit scum team theories.

How do you know which one of the n2 kills was from scum? Thats a terrible slip it appears.

The point is, it is unlikely that the scum have 2 nightkills, meaning one of the kills was not from the scum. And you state with a lot of certainty that the scumkill was cam and not pooky.

How would you know this without some inside information?

I think the point is we don't know if it was a vig or sk or mafia. Or something weird. You're assuming it was not a vig. Which hints to you being more informed about NK's that the rest of the town.

Mentally, I was counting mathcam's death as a vig, though one can't rule out SK. I really, REALLY wouldn't think the scum would take out someone as controversial as mathcam, yet, as logicticus said, you're very sure it was a scum kill. Me no likey.

I know that many quotes from the same page is annoying. But I think adel over looked a few things. That is role fishing to me. That is what any town (some scum) would do when some one says that they know for sure a certain player must have been the mafia kill.

I some how do buy that you forgot pooky died. You have been the most hard core about keeping up on this game and seems like you would forget something like that in a game you are so invested in.

Or you had your blinders on.

Nonny... I don't think any of those quotes from other people were asking Adel to claim. I think you're stretching it.

I could now go for a nonny lynch.

[logicticus]

I was not asking for a claim.

I was pointing out some scummy statements and hoping for a reasonable explanation.

Nonnys extremely loose interpretation of my words (along with other peoples) along with that post detailing macros' stuff is adding up.

[nonny]

Sorry If that is not what you guys meant, I saw it as that was a very scummy thing to say, why don't you explain yourself? I personally found the explaination lacking and thusly wanted claim or a real explanation.

Adel, I did include talitha....aka tally. Right next to elvis.

Tally, She was vocal on mathcam and his bandwagon being ill-founded, Then she went (4 days later with mathcam was still being bandwagoned) and said that he must be scum.

[elvis_knits]

I think the point is we don't know if it was a vig or sk or mafia. Or something weird. You're assuming it was not a vig. Which hints to you being more informed about NK's that the rest of the town.

The role I was thinking of when I said Adel seemed more informed, was a mafia/scum role.

[Talitha]

Werebear: What reason did Phoebus give you to explain why he wanted out of the game? If he didn't give a reason, what is your best guess?

Nonny: Same question as above.

[nonny]

He didn't give me a reason. I'm assuming since it's what he said in thread. That he was just feed up and didn't like being in this sort of game. I also think this because of the tone of what he said when giving me the role. Basically he wanted out, and he didn't like this game.

[Adel]

a formula for deadlines would make the process of determining a deadline both transparent as well a free from the possible perception of bias.
after trying (3*number of living players) in a couple of games, I currently think that (2*number of living players) is the best length of a game day to keep a game on track and reduce the number of required replacements. stalled games result in replacements, unpunished lurking, and scum wins.

could we consider an auto-deadline rule now? the pace of this game is killing me.

[nonny]

Yeah i think a deadline is in order too. And maybe some prods?

Glork has yet to post the rest of his analysis.

[Talitha]

From tomorrow I will have a lot more time to give to this game. Tonight I have a surprise birthday party to cater food for.

I second the call for prods as I'd ideally like all present and accounted for before setting a deadline. I have recently become motivated to catch some scum today... a small theory is churning around in my mind.. it involves the two that got replaced. Phoebus never really gave us a straight reason... (IIRC) he just said it was painful and he couldnt couldnt continue. I think a townie would have given more of an explanation before actively replacing themself. I think the reason he didn't explain is because the reason had to do with his role, as scum. Maybe he wasn't happy with his scum buddy (Macros?) early play.

Anyway I want to check over the thread and make sure that my reasoning is all feasible.

Looking forward to hearing from DGB, Glork, Coron, etc

In the meantime

vote: Werebear

but I could easily change to nonny.

[elvis_knits]

Tally raises a BS WIFOM theory that scum would want to replace out of the game.

[Talitha]

Rubbish. Why didn't Pheobus explain why he wanted out?

[Talitha]

And WIFOM one-liner comebacks are one of my biggest mafia pet peeves. If you really believe my post is bullshit, explain why, without mis-representing what I said, and without resorting to the most overused acronym ever.

[nonny]

From what it looked like phoebus was lurking and basically forced to replace. That is why he didn't say why. He didn't say much of anything, at all.

[Adel]

he was forced to be replaced? I just don't see it.