Mature Mafia: Game Over

[armlx]

Werebear is voting for "TDG" - there's no player with those initials here, so that the vote doesn't even count.

I'm presuming its you.

[nonny]

i assume werebear just meant "TheDrippingGoofball" rather than "DrippingGoofBall"

He has done it before, i believe his first vote was on her as well.

Was that the last of your analysis armlx?

[Werebear]

Are you TRYING to get lynched, Goofball? You're really not making much sense. Apologies for the abbreviation, I won't do that again.

Vote: DrippingGoofball

[Axelrod]

ARMLX

All right, first up in my player reviews will be Coron/Armlx. And this is not because Armlx now appears to be building up towards a vote of me with these last few "review" posts of his, but because (as mentioned previously) he's been right around the top of my suspicious list for a long time.

Start with This post that I made about Coron way back when. I will stand by all that there.

Looking at Coron's subsequent posts, I do not see anything that got any better, in my opinion. The only ones of any kind of substance are where (1) #620 where he's asked by logiticus to elaborate on why he's voting for DGB and he completely avoids the question. Then (2) #764 where he defends Macros/Nonny from my re-questioning of the editing of the first post and what I view as Macros' general dishonesty. Coron here says that Macros is from a time in Mafiascum's history when people just normally tried to hide their roles. He suggests he might vote for Adel, but does nothing more in that regard.

Then he gets replaced. I will submit that, as a player in this game, Coron's contribution was the worst of anyone's, period. Does that by itself make him scum? No. But it certainly doesn't make him look good. He rarely expresses opinions about anyone. The opinions that he does express are not argued or defended, but mainly appear to be riding on the coattails of others. He votes very little. He lurks a lot until prodded, but seems to keep popping up just enough to not get replaced (until he gets replaced, of course).

Then Armlx comes in. Armlx has certainly been more active, the question is, has he been more townie?

Armix spent his first several posts explaining that he hadn't read everything yet. His first action was to vote for Nonny, and this apparently in response to post #899. He says that this looks like an attempt by Nonny to derail the lynch of DGB, possibly causing a No Lynch, or a quick lynch of someone else without much thought. Eh. I can sort of see this point. We were approaching a deadline. We needed a lynch. DGB had the most votes. Nonny was already voting for DGB. Then, Nonny unvotes DGB and votes for someone (Talitha) who doesn't have any votes on them at all, while ranting about how the town isn't doing a good job of scum-hunting.

I also agree with Armlx HERE. Nonny is defending herself from her Unvote of DGB by saying, "I'm not the type of player to vote on a wagon during a deadline that I don't believe in." But she WAS voting for DGB previously. So what changed? Basically Nonny says, at first she just wanted the day to end like everyone else, then she thought about it and realized this was a stupid reason to vote for someone, so she changed it to someone she thought was scum (Talitha). I find all that explanation from Nonny somewhat questionable and not entirely consistnent. So I will give points to Armlx here.

Armlx then switches over to Glork, however. This appears to be part "we need to lynch someone at the deadline" and part "I read his stuff and he looks suspicious to me." Armlx is vague on the particulars. His initial explanation is: "I can't really see the logic behind anything he (Glork) has done this game." Then he

appears

to agree with my general assesment of Glork and finds Glork's response lacking.

Armlx starts this game day going back to a Vote: Nonny HERE. Also says he could possibly get behind the "vote for a non-mod powered player" idea. He doesn't do anything particularly significant after this for a long time. It's mostly 1-liner posts, popping in to ask a question here and there or express agreement/disagreement. It feels like he does some insinuating against me early on - Adel asks Talitha if there's a reason they shouldn't be looking at me and Armlx says that's "interesting" and reminds everyone that I was the one pushing the Glork wagon hardest. He goes on to call me a "manipulative bastard" (but I'm sure that was meant with love), but doesn't follow that up in any way. It's then mainly just a series of random comments, without really pushing anything. His excuse is having only skimmed the game the first time through, and he promises a re-read.

The re-read eventually comes and he's been posting his thoughts from that most recently. I am not a huge fan of these posts. They are the

kind

of thing I have been known to do as scum, i.e. make big long posts "summarizing" the thread or just recapping, and/or noting posts that I "like" and "dislike" out of context.

I will note that in his re-read Armlx notes nothing in

any

of my posts that he likes/agrees with, and a bunch of things he dislikes/disagrees with/thinks are a stretch. This includes my #694, which, again, Armlx

appeared

to agree with at the time when he voted for Glork. It also includes my comments about eliminating all the Non-modpowered players, which Armlx indicated

some

agreement with at the start of the day. All this could be interpreted again, as him trying to generate some buzz for an Axelrod lynch. This does not make Axelrod happy. He's also pushing the idea that I am "linked" with Adel. This also does not make Axelrod happy, and is very bad analysis to boot.

He makes a couple of extremely strong statements, however, like "first thoughts are the Mathcam wagon was complete bullshit. I expect 2 of (DGB, Nonny, Werebear, Tali) are scum for their involvement in it." and "DGB is pretty logical on page 9. Phoebus is not, probably 1 of the 2 scum." which really seem to come out of left field. Man, if you really thought that, one would think you'd be focusing more on it, wouldn't you? Note how neither Adel nor myself are on either of those lists either.

In summary, Armlx has made one point I can sort of agree with, relating to the way Nonny unvoted DGB close to deadline, and not a whole lot else. I can't say that this makes me feel much better about him, but I'm trying to be objective and not simply jump on him because he appears to be trying to raise suspicions against me personally.

He's still right around the top of my current hit-list. I think I'll do Nonny next though, because I did find myself understanding his one point there, Macros was really scummy, and I want to see if there's anything else to see.

[DrippingGoofball]

Once again, Axelrod is town.

[nonny]

I think I'll do Nonny next though, because I did find myself understanding his one point there, Macros was really scummy, and I want to see if there's anything else to see.

I'm thinking we are either in lynch or lose or very close, and you want to lynch me just so you can see i'm scum and the only reason you have against me is that macros was scummy.......I personally would like a stronger case since we are in this situation. Letting the scum coast to a victory is not in my game plan.

[Talitha]

Hi all. I'm still happy with my vote on logic, but in order to back it up a little more convincingly and gather my thoughts on most likely partners I am going to give some quality time to this game tomorrow.

[nonny]

I think I'll do Nonny next though, because I did find myself understanding his one point there, Macros was really scummy, and I want to see if there's anything else to see.

I'm thinking we are either in lynch or lose or very close, and you want to lynch me just so you can see

if

i'm scum and the only reason you have against me is that macros was scummy.......I personally would like a stronger case since we are in this situation. Letting the scum coast to a victory is not in my game plan.

fixed, need to preview from now on

i hate typos, but i do it alot. great now there will be WIFOM over that, but didn't want to leave it fixed and just get quesitons and accusations based on it.


That would be nice tally.

Fine, I'll send out frickin prods since no one else wants to....

[DrippingGoofball]

Hi all. I'm still happy with my vote on logic, but in order to back it up a little more convincingly and gather my thoughts on most likely partners I am going to give some quality time to this game tomorrow.

What about Werebear??? We can't suffer him to live.

[nonny]

The prod was sent to everyone, didn't want to try and see how is active or not.

Ironically I made a typo in my post about hating typos...bah (leave it unfixed*)

[Talitha]

Thanks for doing the prodding nonny.


DGB - I can't make up my mind on Werebear... I guess I feel far more sure about logic. What makes you think he's scum?


Pah, I ran out of hours in the day again... I will try again tomorrow.

[armlx]

will note that in his re-read Armlx notes nothing in any of my posts that he likes/agrees with, and a bunch of things he dislikes/disagrees with/thinks are a stretch.

1) Why is not agreeing with your early posts bad?

2) Which things are stretches?

This includes my #694, which, again, Armlx appeared to agree with at the time when he voted for Glork.

Notice how the reread ends where I replace in.

It also includes my comments about eliminating all the Non-modpowered players, which Armlx indicated some agreement with at the start of the day.

I did, but upon fully reading mathcam's analysis of the scenario I find I'm agreeing with him more.

All this could be interpreted again, as him trying to generate some buzz for an Axelrod lynch. This does not make Axelrod happy. He's also pushing the idea that I am "linked" with Adel. This also does not make Axelrod happy, and is very bad analysis to boot.

Does not making you happy mean I am scummy?

Why is the Adel-you link I noted bad analysis.

You also say I merely summarize and say like/dislike. What do you think I am only summarizing, and what would you like me to elaborate on my thoughts behind?

Note how neither Adel nor myself are on either of those lists either.

What is the issue with this? I realize Axel + Adel + 2 people off that list is more scum then should be in the game, I also realize I could be wrong.

[Axelrod]

NONNY

Continuing on then. As with Armlx, the analysis of Nonny starts with the person she replaced (Macros). Macros' failings have been well documented, and my main issue is pretty well summarized HERE. It's not even so much that he edited zu_Faul's death post (which was bad, but possibly just ignorant), but the fact that he lied about it, and was actively deceptive. Then he appeared to get all huffy when people called his actions scummy and quit. He is player #2 as far as general uselessness goes.

So, starting with that, what has Nonny done?

Nonny's first stated opinion is that she doesn't think that the Mod (EmpT) would have designed the game with the same ratio of Town/Scum as Mod. Powered/Non-Mod. powered, because that would be too obvious. This opinion is neither here nor there with me. It might be right, it might not be, and no one who is not scum really can know at this point.

Her first expressed suspicions are against DGB and Tally in post #712 for lack of participation. This becomes suspicion of DGB and Adel in #714 for basically the same reasons. She thinks Adel has been posting, but not really contributing. One thing I don't like here is the way she expressed suspicion of DGB - appears to be her top suspect - but then asks "those of you who do support a DGB lynch, do you still now that she is on vacation?"

I mean, are you one of "those who support a DGB lynch" or not? You don't seem to give your own opinion on this issue (whether or not we ought to lynch someone who is away on vacation). You just float it out there like some kind of a test balloon, almost as if to see which way the wind is blowing on DGB. It reads as cautious and a bit calculated.

There's an argument between Nonny and Adel then where each vote for the other. Another somewhat interesting moment comes when Talitha pops in and votes for Adel. Nonny's response is HERE. Even though Talitha has apparently agreed that Adel is scummiest, Nonny want to know her reasons. Perhaps it's just me, and it's certainly possible I've done something similar in my time, but when I'm making a case on someone, and voting for them, and someone else comes along and

agrees

and

also

votes for the person I am voting for, I don't typically do what Nonny does here. I am either (1) happy for the support, and don't worry the bandwaggoner didn't give their own independant reasons; or (2) suspicious of the waggoning, which makes me doubt the validity of the original case. It depends on what the original case was based on, of course. Nonny isn't doing either of those here. She's doing both. She's happy with the support and apparently still wants Adel lynched, but she's

also

questioning Talitha, who just voted in support. It's a little bit schizophrenic.

As I said, I am not saying I've never done something like this before myself. I've been playing this stupid game a long, long time, so anything's possible. I just don't quite "get" the mindset that Nonny is coming from here.

Adel is run up to about L-2, when Talitha unvotes. Then there's THIS unvote from Nonny. This is another eyebrow raiser for me. I don't see where Adel has done

anything

to convince you that she is less likely scum. You certainly don't quote anything which you say is making you think she's less likely scum. You just say that she's "being helpful by being active."

On the one hand, I can respect the "don't lynch the people who are actually playing over the people who aren't" position. In fact, that was my

exact

position in THIS post, which was made exactly two posts before Nonny's unvote. I am (essentially) explaining why I am not voting for Nonny now - she's participating. It's almost as if Nonny is barning

me

here, and jumping off a wagon that isn't going anywhere using an excuse I have given her.

But the thing is, if I was actually voting someone for being scum, and genuinely thought they were scum, the fact that they were actively participating wouldn't stop me from voting for them. I was voting Glork at that point, and Glork never gave me a reason not to vote for him the entire time, so my vote just never came off (until a brief switch-up close to the deadline). I don't get why Nonny is unvoting here. Up to this point, Adel has been her primary focus.

In fact, the vote goes right back on again in post #858, seemingly with no more reason than what Nonny believed previously. This vote gets moved over to DGB, however, in post #869, following Logiticus.

And then there is #889, which is what Armlx questioned Nonny for, and as stated previously, is the main thing I agree with Armlx about. This vote switch at such a late hour is way, way, odd. Especially in the context that Nonny hasn't been pushing anything against Talitha the whole game. It's been Adel, Adel, Adel pretty much up to now, with a little bit of "okay, I'll vote for DGB to get a lynch." But now it's "Man, that Talitha sure has been lurking, let's get

her

" at a time when we are under deadline and no one is voting for her.

Once again, Nonny is somewhat schizophrenic here. Saying she's happy we are going to Night (under Talitha imposed deadline) but also using this fact as a point against Talitha, because activity had increased in recent days and Armlx wasn't given time to get caught up.

Then

she switches her vote to Locigitus, following, ironically, Talitha of all people. Nonny says Logiticus was on her "list" of people who contribute, but just barely. I don't think she has mentioned logicticus as someone she was interested in at all before this vote. She

had

mentioned Glork before. She had prodded him multiple times. When she voted for Talitha, she put at the end in big capital letters "where the HECK IS GLORK!" Yet, Glork was one player she never voted for, or said much of anything about at all. I'm wondering why she completely avoided that wagon. Could it be that Glork's reputation made her gunshy to try and get him lynched? That she didn't want to be associated with that (mislynch) in any way?

I don't know, but that whole sequence of votes at the deadline looks fishy.

That's all I'm doing for now. This post is too long as it is, so this game day will have to wait.

[Adel]

There's an argument between Nonny and Adel then where each vote for the other. Another somewhat interesting moment comes when Talitha pops in and votes for Adel. Nonny's response is HERE. Even though Talitha has apparently agreed that Adel is scummiest, Nonny want to know her reasons. Perhaps it's just me, and it's certainly possible I've done something similar in my time, but when I'm making a case on someone, and voting for them, and someone else comes along and

agrees

and

also

votes for the person I am voting for, I don't typically do what Nonny does here. I am either (1) happy for the support, and don't worry the bandwaggoner didn't give their own independant reasons; or (2) suspicious of the waggoning, which makes me doubt the validity of the original case. It depends on what the original case was based on, of course. Nonny isn't doing either of those here. She's doing both. She's happy with the support and apparently still wants Adel lynched, but she's

also

questioning Talitha, who just voted in support. It's a little bit schizophrenic.

As I said, I am not saying I've never done something like this before myself. I've been playing this stupid game a long, long time, so anything's possible. I just don't quite "get" the mindset that Nonny is coming from here.

Adel is run up to about L-2, when Talitha unvotes. Then there's THIS unvote from Nonny. This is another eyebrow raiser for me. I don't see where Adel has done

anything

to convince you that she is less likely scum. You certainly don't quote anything which you say is making you think she's less likely scum. You just say that she's "being helpful by being active."

On the one hand, I can respect the "don't lynch the people who are actually playing over the people who aren't" position. In fact, that was my

exact

position in THIS post, which was made exactly two posts before Nonny's unvote. I am (essentially) explaining why I am not voting for Nonny now - she's participating. It's almost as if Nonny is barning

me

here, and jumping off a wagon that isn't going anywhere using an excuse I have given her.

But the thing is, if I was actually voting someone for being scum, and genuinely thought they were scum, the fact that they were actively participating wouldn't stop me from voting for them. I was voting Glork at that point, and Glork never gave me a reason not to vote for him the entire time, so my vote just never came off (until a brief switch-up close to the deadline). I don't get why Nonny is unvoting here. Up to this point, Adel has been her primary focus.

that Nonny knew I am town would be a good explanation. That seems to also indicate that Tally and Nonny aren't scum together.

[armlx]

Axel, what differentiates what you are doing from the "like/dislikes and summary" that I did?

[nonny]

axel: first off you are useing the word "schizophrenic" wrong, sorry i don't see thing or hear voices in my head.

Secondly you aren't taking interaction with other players into account. I was orginally after adel due to crap logic that made no sense and couldn't see why she was making such a poor case. The fact that tally jumped on with no reason gave me more insight since even before I replaced in I was suspicious of tally. Then I unvoted adel when tally brought up the "huh why did these poeple get reaplced..scum" logic. You didn't even taken in to account that I can read and listen to other poeple than adel, just because I was voting her doesn't mean I had eyes only for her.

Another thing you don't take into account is that that "day" was over a month long, in that time frame you see new stuff, get frustrated with activity levels, and what not.

she expressed suspicion of DGB - appears to be her top suspect - but then asks "those of you who do support a DGB lynch, do you still now that she is on vacation?"

I wanted to see poeple reactions to this. If they thought DGB was truly scum I don't think the vacation would factor in. However, if they themselves are scum going after an easy lynch then they would care, because it would slow down things and also take longer to get to night.

Even though Talitha has apparently agreed that Adel is scummiest, Nonny want to know her reasons. Perhaps it's just me, and it's certainly possible I've done something similar in my time, but when I'm making a case on someone, and voting for them, and someone else comes along and agrees and also votes for the person I am voting for, I don't typically do what Nonny does here.

I don't typically ever like poeple just jumping on a wagon whether it's one i'm starting/on or not. It's scummy and wrong. Rather thier be reasons stated as there were none I questioned it.

You post makes it seem like i'm only allowed to have one suspect at a time and good forbid I switch or try to interact and question multiple poeple. Tally was a suspect from the begining why wouldn't i question a wagon jump from her?

Also, you make it sound like scum would never vote for one another, this is bs and you know it. Since you've been playing for as long as you had to point out, do scum ever place a vote on thier partners?

Nonny's first stated opinion is that she doesn't think that the Mod (EmpT) would have designed the game with the same ratio of Town/Scum as Mod. Powered/Non-Mod. powered, because that would be too obvious. This opinion is neither here nor there with me. It might be right, it might not be, and no one who is not scum really can know at this point.

Then why even point it out? If it doesn't matter then why does it matter? Am I not allowed to speculate on something, or keep the same opinion through out the time i'm in the game. Because if you noticed I still think this is the case, and that it's a waste of time to out guess the mod about no mod powers= atleast one scum.

Furthermore, I believe your way of analysis is poor. Looking at only one person at a time doens't take into acount interactions with other nor what was happening at the time in the game. IF this was the only thing scummy you'd done I'd still go on it. Also you took more into account your opinion then mine, like when you said adel hadn't done anything that was convincing enough to remove a vote, that is your view. Also, why does adel have to be the one doing something convincing...tally did something convincing me she was scummy.

Right now my gut and logic leads me to believe it's a axel-tally pairing. Esp, with how he was almost defending tally in a subtle way. Sure at the time what I had against her was lurking, but I also pointed out when she did vote it was to ask if we need a deadline or otherwise. Her actual posts lead me to the conclusion too, as well as her inactivity. You also said my suspicions came out of the blue when i switched near deadline? But yet you say one of my first suspects was tally. You give no "analysis" of my orginal case against her when i voted and don't even mention I had one. When someone is inactive as she was/is(even if she has IRL stuff going on she was inactive) it takes more time to analyize thier beheavior because at first there is less to go on. Also, the fact that tally is trying to say we should go off glork and lynch logic due to it. While yes she was voting logic at deadline, she disregarded that axelrod was glorks biggest case and suspect. It's been ignored, though their is the most to go off of for a cse on axelrod.

I think I covered everything I need to about the case against me, if i missed something i'll address it.

Basically I'm very happy with my vote.

[DrippingGoofball]

Right now my gut and logic leads me to believe it's a axel-tally pairing.

Not in a million years. Axel is town. You have now set my scumdar on fire.

[nonny]

DGB, how about giving reasons for stuff instead of saying "so and so is town" "so and so is scum" why not share your insights with us then? hmmm?

[Adel]

Right now my gut and logic leads me to believe it's a axel-tally pairing.

Not in a million years. Axel is town. You have now set my scumdar on fire.

unless Axel is bussing Nonny, but I will take an accurate lynch whichever way it comes.

[DrippingGoofball]

Right now my gut and logic leads me to believe it's a axel-tally pairing.

Not in a million years. Axel is town. You have now set my scumdar on fire.

unless Axel is bussing Nonny, but I will take an accurate lynch whichever way it comes.

I don't think Axel is bus'ing.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, how about giving reasons for stuff instead of saying "so and so is town" "so and so is scum" why not share your insights with us then? hmmm?

No scumbag would make the kind of posts he just made. Perhaps I'm easily fooled that way. But I think he's town.

[armlx]

No scumbag would make the kind of posts he just made.

What the hell does this even mean? Thats not even real logic.

That said, everything I said about Werebear stands.

Vote Werebear

[nonny]

DGB: what about his post would a scum not do? I find it a very scum way to do an analysis post, personally.

Armlx: i must have missed it could you direct me to where you had your case on werebear or re-create it? (totally serious, just so you know, no sarcasitic, really want to see your case)

[Werebear]

armlx hasn't said *anything* about me, save August 12, when he suggested I might be scum. I think I have my two favorite candidates. DrippingGoofball, and armlx. I expect one of them's scum, and the other is just a townie playing horribly. I mean, come on, what the hell is this? This is DrippingGoofball's entire case against me.

Let's get out of the doldrums.

vote: Werebear

Don't! Don't look at our interactions... it's no good. No good can come of this.

unvote, vote: Werebear

Right now, I'm trying to decide which one is which, right now it looks more like DrippingGoofball is a sucky townie, and armlx is scum trying to bolster the townie's case.

I did ask a question that nobody answered, though. If I were scum, why on earth would I try to rationalize a way for the town to win in a worst-case scenario??

[nonny]

To get townie points. We have in the past had a heated arguement on the ethics of the game between elvis and adel. Scum would know this and suggest something knowing no one would ever preform it based on what side poeple took in the arguement and who is left alive. Simply so they could say what you just said.

FoS werebear

for that very thing.