Mini 650: Over

[Kmd4390]

So you want LK lynched but refuse to provide reasoning.

Interesting.

[sirdanilot]

Hey guys, let's force SensFan to provide reasoning why he wants to lynch LK!

unvote vote SensFan

[Light-kun]

LK what do you think about sensfan not answering my question? does it at all seem scummy to you?

I didn't. Actually, I figured that he had a reason and was trying to make a point, so I was just remaining silent. (Albeit, I didn't really know WHAT his point was, but it seemed like he was trying to make one.)

At this point, it seems very anti-town, but not inherently scummy. I say this because scum have no reason to stall unless deadline was tomorrow.

Lk i didn't realize you aren't voting. is this because nobody seems scummy? or are there multiple people that seem scummy and you aren't sure who to vote for? please explain your thoughts to us.

No, I'm not voting. And the reason is because nobody seems very scummy. Just recently anti town, or so slightly scummy that it seems like a townie who wasn't careful with his post. *sighs* I don't know much aside from my suspects in one of my past post, which includes about 4 people that I lightly suspected at the time.

[Light-kun]

Ebwop:

Cross post. I am only voting to help SirD force Sens to give reasons.

Vote: Sensfan

[SensFan]

Hey guys, let's force SensFan to provide reasoning why he wants to lynch LK!

unvote vote SensFan

I assure you that being voted will not change how I play this game. Feel free to try, though.

Or, you know, just ask me for a list of games where I, as Town, held back information.

[omni]

What you did in previous games means nothing, it's a pretty terrible tactic either way, if you won't share why it's not very helpful is it?

fos: SensFan

[afatchic]

i had told myself that if i got home from church and he hadn't answered that i would vote him, but since two others have already done it and he hasn't budged i don't see it doing much good. i know this is extremely WIFOMy but why would a scum do that? however, why would a townie do that? it is extremely anit-town in my books. exchanging information is one of the few things the town has on its side. so when you limit that, it hurts the town because we make less educated decisions.

if you wont answer my original question, then can you tell me why you won't.

[sirdanilot]

Tough one, eh SensFan?

Meta doesn't mean anything, I don't care whether you did it before or not, it's anti-town and I will not tolerate it.

Afatchic, I do think a bandwagon may give us some info. I really love how LK immediately jumped on to it (and of course I expected it), things like that give us information.

And even if he doesn't budge, we can put him at l-1 and force him to. I don't see how withholding information can be helpful to the town at that point, so if he doesn't budge at l-1 we may have caught some scum!

Or, SensFan, just save us the trouble and either tell why you're voting LK or why it's pro-town to withhold information at this point.

Afatchic, I agree that his play style is extremely anti-town. But, too scummy =/= town. Please remember this argument for your future games, it's a mistake many newbies make. One can never be too scummy in normal games like this. Because, if that were possible, scum hunting would be completely impossible and everything would just become WIFOM.

The only exception is if there's a Jester in the game, but that is never the case in Mini Normals and one will always be notified beforehand if there's a jester.

[afatchic]

yeah i find it very interesting that LK jumped on that quick, however the pressure votes do seem needed. pressure voting if he wouldn't answer was my original idea, however when two people voted and he didn't care i seemed to just give up on the idea. but if he wants to play stubborn then im going to add a vote as well. so...

VOTE: Sensfan.

and i also don't care what you have done in other games. withholding info from the town is anti-town, which needs to change or result in a lynch.

also omni why did you just FOS? if two votes didn't do it, im pretty sure an fos isn't going to do the trick. do you see this not worthy enough to change your vote from LK? after all im pretty sure an LK lynch at this moment is going to happen since two people from that wagon are voting Sensfan right now. im just curious, seems like scum trying not to jump too much to stay low and not get caught. can you please explain for me?

[SensFan]

Checking in before I leave for classes. Make sure I'm not lynched beforfe I have a chance to speak. (Not that I will be giving reasons, of course )

[omni]

The fact that LK jumped straight on the next bandwagon didn't help his cause, mind you if SensFan sits himself in this mentality of his, which he seems to be doing, I will change. It's interesting the way he mocks us about his not changing.

I'll be at college tomorrow so may not get on until Wednesday Night (Sydney Time) so if there's no reaction from there that will definitely be a big influence.

[sirdanilot]

Omni, votes can also be used as a pressure tool. It's not like LK is going to run away when we unvote him for someone else.

Now, I'll admit that I do not use my vote as a pressure tool very often, but this is one of those instances where I think it's very helpful to the town to bandwagon SensFan. It gives us heaps of information. Some info we've got so far:

1. LK immediately jumping on.
2. Omni merely FoSing
3. Afatchic's posts may be interesting later on.
4. SensFan still not budging after 3 votes on him.

Not everything here is equally as valuable. I am also not saying that all the people listed are scum, I'm just saying that these posts and actions may be of value later on.

[Light-kun]

As stated before, my vote is ONLY for pressure voting and to help SirD reach about L-3 or even 2 if getting information (which, in my opinion, is obvious) is that important. I do not think that Sensfan is necessarily scum, but excluding myself, this is the most extreme anti town behavior thus far, hence my vote.

I will be unvoting as soon as I judge it to no longer be needed. However, if these events leads me to the conclusion that Sensfan should be lynched, my vote would, naturally, remain.

[SensFan]

0 - Random vote. Seems off.
1 - Dead wrong on theory, but what conrcerns me more is how he avoids picking any side.
2 - Again, wrong on theory. Something is very wrong about the self-vote.
3 - Correcting his vote.
4 - Continues to massively undervalue the early stage. Uses a large amount of words in an effort to disguise the craplogic. Again goes out of his way to avoid giving his opinion on certain things.
5 - Shows lack of caring about who he votes. Then unvotes without revoting.
6 - Useless post.
7 - Another post with a ton of words, but little content. This guy has now voted himself twice in the game, and unvoted in the next post. Something is very wrong.
8 - Correcting his vote.
9 - Looks like he's trying to make mountains out of molehills.
10 - Another long post. This one has some decent stuff, but he still uses way too much off-topic material, presumably in an effort to make it look longer and more impressive.
11 - A long, useless, post.
12 - Very useless post that is trying to look like he is saying something.
13 - Puts a vote on Brandi for no good reason. More fence-sitting and off-topicness.
14 - Useless post.
15 - Admits to a bullshit vote on Brandi, attacks me.
16 - Says that Brandi has said very little info, dwelling more on theory. So far LK has said very little info, dwelling on off-topicness and wrong theory.
17 - Long, useless post that could have been shortened to five letters.
18 - Useless post.
19 - Useless post, insinuates he is active.
20 - Useless post. Tries to make himself look good, and makes excuses for lurking later on.
21 - Calling out Brandi for doing exactly what he is, but in less words and craplogic.
22 - Calls out afatchic for fence-sitting...
23 - Low on correct theory, information. High on bullshit, word count.
24 - Another long, useless, post that could have been 5 letters.
25 - Another long, useless, post that could have been 5 letters.
26 - Another long, useless, post.
27 - Useless, unclear post.
28 - More word-spewing to make his posts big.
29 - This post is actually fairly decent.
30 - Yay. Another useless post.
31 - Very wrong on Theory one again. This post at least seems legit, though.
32 - Quick wagon jump.
33 - Setting the stage to either change wagons, or stay on mine, whichever pleases more people.

[afatchic]

yeah i don't like how he is just using the excuse because SirD wants the votes, now he can easily jump off the wagon and say he was only on it because we wanted pressure votes, or he can stay on it and if it results in a lynch then he still can say he had nothing to do with it because he was helping out SirD.

so why couldn't you answer from the beginning?

[Kmd4390]

The only exception is if there's a Jester in the game, but that is never the case in Mini Normals and one will always be notified beforehand if there's a jester.

On MS you always know there is a jester?!?!?
I've played 1, modded 1, and read 1, in 3 different places where there was a jester and nobody was informed.

im pretty sure an LK lynch at this moment is going to happen

Don't be so sure.
Sensfan isn't looking good.
He basically did a "here's my vote but I won't say why... HAHAHAHA" which is terrible for the town.
Also the fact that his vote went with most of the town just screams "Ok, I'm going to jump this bandwagon for no reason".

Never mind, his last post is much better

Sensfan, your arguement is this:
-not taking a side

fence-sitting eliminates this because it is the same thing

-wrong on theory
-self-vote
-lack of caring

combining this with uselessness as they are similar

-uselessness
-long posts without content

going to put this with uselessnessas well

-fence sitting
-admitting bad votes
-wagoning
correct?
I think a summarized case is easier to follow.

Let's see if I can shorten this. Using italics above to show what category I'm putting it in.
Remember, by shortening this, I am not doing anything against what you said. The above is my interpretation of your post so I am simply shortening it so it is easier to understand.

-fence sitting
-wrong on theory
-lack of caring/ uselessness/ lack of content
-admits bad votes
-wagoning

Sensfan, if I have anything wrong, please let me know. This is what I get out of your post on LK.

I'm going to say that this mostly looks mostly like indecisiveness to me. Everything here looks like he either won't take a side on anything for whatever reason or is just unsure what is going on.

Thoughts anyone?

[someone2]

Afatchic I really don't understand you... See in post 306, you don't want to vote for SensFan because there's already two people voting for him. After that, in your next post, you seem to want to please SirD by agreeing with all he had said in his last post, you even vote for SensFan. That's not the problem, but after, you ask omni why he only Fosed SensFan ( The exact same thing that YOU did before SirD's post!!!) Very strange how you want to please your attacker each time you're being asked questions. Vote stays. See to prove my point, you'll suffer from my second PBPA

KrisReizer/afatchic PBPA

KrisReizer:

Post 0: Random vote(neutral)

Post 1: Explains his opinion on the self-vote thing(Theory bla-bla)(neutral)

Post 2:Clicks two times on the post button!!!This inattention clearly indicates he is scum!(very bad!!!)

Post 3:Attack OC because of the joking random vote...(funny)

Post 4: Agrees with LK. (Don't know what to think of that...)(neutral or bad)

Post 5: Defends LK (beginning of a connection there? too subjective for now to say)(neutral or bad)

Post 6:I really don't like when he said "Now that we've got you posting"(There was onlly him and LK on that bandwagon) Connected with the two last posts it becomes very strange...(bad)

Post 7:Analysis of OC's joking vote.(funny)

Afatchic:

Post 0: Jumps automatically on the biggest wagon (LK's one) after having talked very lightly about some other aspects of the game.(bad)

Post 1: You've got something similar with SirD, don't you?(neutral)

Post 2: Contradicts everything he said in his post 0 to please Kmd(LK isn't so scummy after all)(very, very bad)

Post 3: Power role talk, and gives the idea to vote for LK until he proves he isn't scum. Very scummy post(very bad)

Post 4: On the defensive for a lot of his post, and makes comments on three players, saying he doesn't have a good read on all the others???(bad)

Post 5: Asks a question to LK(neutral-good)

Post 6:Asks lots of questions to a couple of players (good)

Post 7:Explains his vote on Lk, without anything really new of what others on the bandwagon stated before(neutral)

Post 8:Confirms his position on the vote forgotten by LK.(neutral)

Post 9: More questions (good)

Post 10: EBWOP (neutral)

Post 11:ZZZZZZZZZ(neutral)

Post 12:Because I can't skip post 13 I'll take that one as the post thirteen and skip the post 12. Crappy reasoning (bad)

Post 14:Misunderstands LK last post.(neutral)

Post 15:Good post (good)

Post 16:ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzZ(neutral)

I'm becoming tired and I don't think my analysis for now is that good, I'll continue later..

[Kmd4390]

Post 2:Clicks two times on the post button!!!This inattention clearly indicates he is scum!(very bad!!!)

I hope this is a joke. (Remember that I, too, am suspicious of afat.)

Post 4: Agrees with LK. (Don't know what to think of that...)(neutral or bad)

Post 5: Defends LK (beginning of a connection there? too subjective for now to say)(neutral or bad)

Don't rule out the possibility of buddying up to town.

Post 0: Jumps automatically on the biggest wagon (LK's one) after having talked very lightly about some other aspects of the game.(bad)

I agree. (and made this same point earlier.)

Post 2: Contradicts everything he said in his post 0 to please Kmd(LK isn't so scummy after all)(very, very bad)

Again, I agree. Nobody should ever back off of a case just because some one disagrees with it.

Post 3: Power role talk, and gives the idea to vote for LK until he proves he isn't scum. Very scummy post(very bad)

Yep. All this does is hurt the town.

Post 7:Explains his vote on Lk, without anything really new of what others on the bandwagon stated before(neutral)

Don't forget that he backed off of this vote earlier when I attacked him.
Now that some time has passed, he is back to thinking LK is scum.

Post 12:Because I can't skip post 13 I'll take that one as the post thirteen and skip the post 12. Crappy reasoning (bad)

I don't understand what you are saying.

[Kmd4390]

Someone, good analysis overall.

[SensFan]

so why couldn't you answer from the beginning?

Because we wouldn't have gotten all of these juicy reactions.

[someone2]

someone2 wrote:
Post 2:Clicks two times on the post button!!!This inattention clearly indicates he is scum!(very bad!!!)



I hope this is a joke. (Remember that I, too, am suspicious of afat.)

Yes it was.

someone2 wrote:
Post 4: Agrees with LK. (Don't know what to think of that...)(neutral or bad)

Post 5: Defends LK (beginning of a connection there? too subjective for now to say)(neutral or bad)



Don't rule out the possibility of buddying up to town

I didn't point out any of the three possibilities (scum-scum, scum-townie, or townie-townie). I think it's too early in the game to talk about connections, but I found it interesting. If you want me to enter WIFOMy reasoning, I'd say the way afatchic push for a LK's lynch comparatively to the Kris' defense of LK MIGHT give us a clue that LK MIGHT be town IF afatchic turns scum IF we decide that he'll be a lynch. There's too much possibilities to consider this information valuable.

someone2 wrote:
Post 7:Explains his vote on Lk, without anything really new of what others on the bandwagon stated before(neutral)



Don't forget that he backed off of this vote earlier when I attacked him.
Now that some time has passed, he is back to thinking LK is scum.

True, I completely forgot about that.

someone2 wrote:
Post 12:Because I can't skip post 13 I'll take that one as the post thirteen and skip the post 12. Crappy reasoning (bad)



I don't understand what you are saying.

I'm just too superstitious to make tha analysis of the post thirteen. What if my computer explode while i'm writing it or if my roof fall on me? Don't listen to me, I'm just having fun in my head...

I'll finish the analysis tomorrow night.

[Light-kun]

so why couldn't you answer from the beginning?

Because we wouldn't have gotten all of these juicy reactions.

So far, you have failed to draw any conclusions or new information from your reaction. At least, you have been annoying as hell, and at most, you have delayed the game for some unknown reason. You gave a so called PBPA on me, but quite frankly, you firmly resulted that I am: indecisive, wrong on theory, and at one point, confused. All of these are true, but they are closer to amateur mistakes, not scum mistakes. And even then, you drew no conclusions from you PBPA. Sure, you voted me, but you haven't given reasons, you summarized what everyone knew, and withheld your reasoning for reactions, but that didn't do much.

Confirmvote: Sensfan

[hitogoroshi]

Oh, wow, explosion of activity.

As it happens, I HAVE done some extensive meta on Sensfan. I'm following a couple of games that I'm not in, and he's in one of them. He has in fact acted like this before, in games he was/is town/probably town. Of course, I think it's a rather fruitless endeavor when all this day one fighting is just little squabbles with very little hard evidence. I'd like to go to day two, but if a townie wants to keep it going may as well keep it going.

[SensFan]

So far, you have failed to draw any conclusions or new information from your reaction.

I never said anything about information TODAY. You need to be dead before the reactions give me information.

At least, you have been annoying as hell, and at most, you have delayed the game for some unknown reason.

I'd like you to explain why waiting less than 24 hours to explain myself is 'annoying as hell' or 'delay[ing] the game".

You gave a so called PBPA on me, but quite frankly, you firmly resulted that I am: indecisive, wrong on theory, and at one point, confused.

Thanks for the admission. You going to self-vote (for the third time, might I add!) yourself, too?

All of these are true, but they are closer to amateur mistakes, not scum mistakes.

Don't pull the Newb card in a non-Newb game. Besides, modesty aside, I pride myself on being far better than the average player at telling NewbTown from NewbScum.

And even then, you drew no conclusions from you PBPA.

Actually, I drew plenty.

Sure, you voted me, but you haven't given reasons, you summarized what everyone knew, and withheld your reasoning for reactions, but that didn't do much.

Pretty sure I gave a ton of opinions in that post. If you want, I could go back and count the number of times the word 'useless' appears...

Confirmvote: Sensfan

I even called this.

---

You want to play the Newb card with me, you better as fuck be willing to listen to the IC card.

Code: Select all

Look, LK.  I can see that you have, at select points, been making an honest effort.  You need to realize that wrong does not equal scummy, though.  Nor is someone scummy for suspecting you.  You seem to be playing from the assumption you are pro-Town, and you have to put that aside when you play Mafia, since the rest of us don't know that.  Don't treat someone attacking you and differently than you would if the same attack was on someone else.  Also, stop going off-topic.  You may think its funny, or cute, to spew about random nonsense, but iits really just a waste of space.  It makes you look like you're trying to pull a fast one.

Your posts have been full of OMGUS and off-topic comments.  Please stop.

[SensFan]

Oh, wow, explosion of activity.

As it happens, I HAVE done some extensive meta on Sensfan. I'm following a couple of games that I'm not in, and he's in one of them. He has in fact acted like this before, in games he was/is town/probably town. Of course, I think it's a rather fruitless endeavor when all this day one fighting is just little squabbles with very little hard evidence. I'd like to go to day two, but if a townie wants to keep it going may as well keep it going.

Be careful about metaing ongoing games. You can't reference them, and (assuming I'm alive), I could very well be Scum.

Newbie 638 is a really good example of me holding back as Town, though. Just the first 10 posts of mine in isolation is probably enough.