Invitational 10: 2005-2006. Game over! before 624

[ChannelDelibird]

unvote

I'm not sure I'm on this wagon for the right reasons. I've seen and agreed with some of the little things but the lines of questioning that most seem to be most interested in, I'm not seeing. I'll have to have another look at elvis, but I'm also going to read up on the New DGB.

[Patrick]

elias is worrying me. He hasn't posted anything particularly bad (unexplained protown read on Sarcastro seems weird, but I spose there could be something I'm not seeing), but he's flying really low under the radar. He hasn't posted in 8 days, and his last few posts could just be waiting to see which way people go on DGB before committing to something. If he's scum, this has been a cakewalk for him so far; he really needs to be more heavily involved in the game in real time.

CDB's analysis looks somewhat meatier, doesn't really remind me of the last time I played with him, where he was scum. His jump on the elvis wagon still feels awkward to me, it usually pings my scumdar when I see any trace of deferring responsibility, however minor, and I think he does that with, " and I'm thinking that it may be best for me to trust those who have been playing this from the start and clearly feel strongly against elvis. (And, as I say, I am suspicious after reading the above)". Nevertheless, he looks ok to me overall.

HackerHuck gives me mixed signals. Some of his comments on players look very reasonable and match up pretty well with my own, but his reasons for suspicion of elvis leave me unconvinced. This particularly:

My biggest concerns came with her lack of interest in why Ether wanted her specifically to hammer. I am still wondering why that is, but Elvis never seemed to care and it wasn't like that comment slipped by her.

I've looked back at Ether's post on this, and it seemed pretty obvious why she wanted elvis specifically to hammer. Can you better explain this suspicion? Elvis responded and you just ignored it, saying you'd hammer her later and that her lynch is a foregone conclusion. I can see what you're getting at with your other point against her, but still doesn't seem that big, and you were apparently reading elvis as not very likely mafia in the first 10 pages.

bird: I find it odd how you said you didn't like both Ether's and my unexplained votes so early in the game. Do you feel voting without giving reasons is inherently scummy, or was there something in particular about these posts that bothered you? (I'm aware you retracted your dislike of mine).

Can you elaborate on why PJ looked town to you?

I think elias looks worse than CDB, and I'm still making my mind up on the other two pending a few responses. (I might do bird again as I'm getting lazy now).

Starting to lean towards bluesoul as town based on gut from the tone of his posts, and the way in which he seems to repeatedly get flak for these early game reasons which I've never found convincing. I'm slightly less confident in my vote than before, but no other vote really appeals to me at the moment.

[bird1111]

bird: I find it odd how you said you didn't like both Ether's and my unexplained votes so early in the game. Do you feel voting without giving reasons is inherently scummy, or was there something in particular about these posts that bothered you? (I'm aware you retracted your dislike of mine).

Can you elaborate on why PJ looked town to you?

I find it scummy past the random voting stage. Less scummy the closer to it.

Gut feeling really.

[bird1111]

@chamber: Have you seen DBG refuse to claim as scum?

That I remember? No. but thats hardly definitive. However since no where did I say her refusal to claim made me think she was more likely to be town I ail to see how thats relevant. I think shes town cause of her play overall. I was more stating her refusal to claim as a non tell.

Fair enough.

[HackerHuck]

My biggest concerns came with her lack of interest in why Ether wanted her specifically to hammer. I am still wondering why that is, but Elvis never seemed to care and it wasn't like that comment slipped by her.

I've looked back at Ether's post on this, and it seemed pretty obvious why she wanted elvis specifically to hammer. Can you better explain this suspicion? Elvis responded and you just ignored it, saying you'd hammer her later and that her lynch is a foregone conclusion. I can see what you're getting at with your other point against her, but still doesn't seem that big, and you were apparently reading elvis as not very likely mafia in the first 10 pages.

I'm afraid I can't really clarify it for you. I still don't understand why Ether wanted Elvis specifically to claim. I think there's a good chance that Elvis_Knits is scum, but I also think there will be value in knowing her alignment. It seems to be a pretty good day one lynch, just because of the information gained.

I'm also a little worried about Elias. Hopefully he can put together something this weekend.

[Patrick]

Didn't the top paragraph of post 552 explain it? [/quote]

[bird1111]

Various questions in my initial post that, as far as I'm aware of, have still not been answered.

Is it typical for DBG to side with multiple people at once?

Why didn't MBL explain what was said in 147 before?

MBL's guesses:

.5 of {Ether-town
chamber-town
bluesoul-town
IH-town
Elias-town
OGML-town } = scum

1.5 of {Patrick, DBG, Sarc, PJ} = scum

e_k-scum

Could you explain this? As I'm not understanding at all.

Elias and pablito will have to stop being chicken shitte and vote for somebody. I find players that abstain from voting scummy. Both have been around and should park their vote where it counts, not in no-vote limbo.

How is not voting scummy?

[HackerHuck]

@Patrick
Having reread Ether's posts a little more carefully now, I noticed the consistency in her voting for Elvis off and on for most of the game. I hadn't really caught that the first few times through and thought her vote on Elvis wasn't solidly presented.

Going back and reading the post you mentioned, I notice that E_K was more than willing to die because of the conflict she had brought to the town. Where has that concern gone and how does it reconcile to the unwillingness to claim?

[DrippingGoofball]

How is not voting scummy?

Not voting is a way to avoid scrutiny, it makes your record harder to track. Opinions are talk, but votes are actions.

[bird1111]

Could you defend the actions I found scummy in 555?

Same thing for Elias and elvis. (And CDB/HackerHuck if they think they can defend their predecessor's actions.)

[DrippingGoofball]

Which parts? Your post was a long one and I'm bound to forget something.

[pablito]

vote: bird1111

[bird1111]

Which parts? Your post was a long one and I'm bound to forget something.

All the points against you should be in the section under DrippingGoofball.

why, Pablito?

[bluesoul]

More activity please. I will vote elvis if we appear to be stalled out as we've accomplished probably the longest Day One of the year, and probably longer than that. I don't believe I have anything directed at me at the moment so I'll take the opportunity to announce I'll have limited access until Saturday as I've got family in town the next four days.

[pablito]

DGB told me to.

[bird1111]

FOS: Pablito

Not a good reason to vote.

[elvis_knits]

Can we talk about how MBL said it would be ridiculous/impossible to have a SK in a minvitational, and I was stupid/misdirecting for suggesting it? Because Minvitational 8 had a SK.

I really think the SK is most likely to say there's no SK in the game.

Also, I blame him for the dissolution of the DGB wagon.

And where is he lately anyway?

unvote; vote MBL

[bird1111]

More activity please.

QFT. This is part of the reason why I focused on the unanswered stuff from my 555 in my past two posts, as since it had been a few days, and since no one was saying anything, I decided to try and go ahead and try to start conversation by getting them answered.

Can we talk about how MBL said it would be ridiculous/impossible to have a SK in a minvitational, and I was stupid/misdirecting for suggesting it? Because Minvitational 8 had a SK.

I find it curious, and would like him to comment on the fact that an SK was in Minivitation 8.

I really think the SK is most likely to say there's no SK in the game.

Agreed, but I don't find this sort of thing that strong of a tell.

Also, I blame him for the dissolution of the DGB wagon.

Why?

And where is he lately anyway?

He was, until last Monday, at Burner Man. No idea where he is now.

Any chance of defending youself from my 555? (quickest way to do that would be to ctrl+f until you get to your section of where I put my thoughts on each of the players)

[HackerHuck]

Can we talk about how MBL said it would be ridiculous/impossible to have a SK in a minvitational, and I was stupid/misdirecting for suggesting it? Because Minvitational 8 had a SK.

I really think the SK is most likely to say there's no SK in the game.

Also, I blame him for the dissolution of the DGB wagon.

And where is he lately anyway?

unvote; vote MBL

I don't agree that it's rediculous to have an SK here, but I don't think it's a helpful conversation to have on day one. Even if we do have an SK, there's really no helpful information to be gained from discussing the possibility. I only see it as a diversion.

Why are you so concerned about the dissolution of the DGB wagon. That's not a bad thing unless you think she's scum, but then I would think that you would be pushing that wagon instead of reaching out for MBL.

MBL often gives off SK vibes just from his playstyle, but I think that it's important to note his assertion that it's extremely unlikely to have an SK. I also seem to recall from last year or some other year that it took him a little while to recover from the Burning Man.

[DrippingGoofball]

Can we talk about how MBL said it would be ridiculous/impossible to have a SK in a minvitational, and I was stupid/misdirecting for suggesting it? Because Minvitational 8 had a SK.

I really think the SK is most likely to say there's no SK in the game.

Also, I blame him for the dissolution of the DGB wagon.

And where is he lately anyway?

unvote; vote MBL

Ugh? What's up with that?

[DrippingGoofball]

Which parts? Your post was a long one and I'm bound to forget something.

All the points against you should be in the section under DrippingGoofball.

This bit?

"DrippingGoofball: Really do not like her throwing in the towel. Do not find it scummy. What I do find it scummy is her buttering up people, making a mountain out of a molehill in 98, and post 188. Also don't like her emphasis on people not voting. All that and the fact that I don't believe she is a SuperSaint, means I'm going to Vote: DBG"

[bird1111]

Yes. That.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm back!

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote

Tons more info to go on since I left. Thanks for keeping the D1 going--I LOVE long days. So much tasty info to work with, and even better: replacements! One player can often screw with my radar when it comes to their town/scum tone, but I think I'll be able to spot scummy words and unbelievable content when TWO players are spewing words from the same seat.

For the record, I am feeling pretty spaced out at the moment and will probably say some weird shit over the next few days. I just spent a dehydrated two weeks in the desert and am still sweating out strange substances. Asphalt, electricity and houses with roofs all look really strange to me right now. Just don't expect me to sound quite normal for the next little bit.

Quick summary after I skimmed the past two weeks of posts:

* Patrick matched my thoughts nearly exactly, from what I recall
* Ether isn't moving the game forward but wants to appear involved
* elias is not meeting his responsibilities, which is lame
* Huck went from not finding elvis scummy to finding elvis his #1 suspect in like 24 hrs, this needs to be looked into, especially considering he now finds her lynch inevitable
* DGB and elvis interaction odd... elvis "blaming" me for DGB wagon dissappearance feels stinky--possible scumpair?
* elvis really needs another suspect besides townMBL if I am ever to see her as even remotely townish
* Minvitational 8 was a travesty, and whoever decided to put a serial killer in a "best vs. best" game should be shot. The game lasted 4 days due to double nightkills, and in games that short, result is determined by randomness as much as skill. I sincerely hope we don't have an SK in this game, because I would rather find out who can PLAY.
* bird, meh
* CDB doesn't look ANYTHING like he did when we were scum together. He's either just matured a ton or he's town.

I'll read again, and somewhat more critically after rehydrating. Thanks to all, even the mod who I'm not allowed to talk to, for allowing me to stay in the game despite a 10-day absence.

[DrippingGoofball]

What I do find it scummy is her buttering up people, making a mountain out of a molehill in 98, and post 188. Also don't like her emphasis on people not voting. All that and the fact that I don't believe she is a SuperSaint, means I'm going to Vote: DBG"

Buttering up people, come on, with myself as an exception, the caliber of players is very high in this game. You find this scummy - you're entitled to your opinion, there's not much there to refute. My sentiments were genuine, but that's meaningless.

On the other hand, I always view non-voters with suspicion. The rest I've already addressed.

If elvis can accuse MBL of derailing my wagon, perhaps I can accuse you of derailing elvis' wagon? Just wonderin'