Mini 650: Over

[Light-kun]

afatchic:
Post #1: Attacks me with decent reasons.

I respond to his attacks.

#2:Further attacking about forgetting who my vote was on, that honestly doesn't make a lot of sense to me...

#3: Concludes that my center of attention play was anti town, but not scummy. At the end of his second paragraph,he says that forgetting my vote is strange, but apparently not scummy. The rest of the posts says that he had reasons to think I'm scummy, but he just said that those reasons didn't make me scummy but were strange or anti town.

This post here seems like he isn't really sure if I am scum. He admits that my play isn't inherently scummy, but strange and not protown.

#4: This is the big no no post were he speculates I am power role or scum. Wait..., no, that can't be right... He is going to pressure me until he has evidence I'm not mafia. This is some super high expectations.

Super high expectations aside, he thinks that I might not be scummy because my strange play indicates PR. Again, instead of sticking to the one argument from post 1 and 2, he seems to think that I am potentially not scummy in 3 and 4.

#7: He asks for my opinion of who mafia is.

I don't play a ton of forum mafia, but I don't see how the opinions of someone you suspect help you greatly... Especially when anyone they accused could be wifomed into actually being either side if the person asked flipped mafia. So, does he think I am town aligned or not as scummy as he thought?


#8: Reiterates reasons to vote me... Says that my response agrees with him. (Which I do, because, as he explained, his attacks are because they were either stupid [ie anti town] or "strange." But not scummy.)

He flips here to resume his stance that I am probably scum.

#11: Says that forgetting my vote isn't townie error but a scum slip. (HOW!?)

So, in some posts, he seems to think I am definitely scum and in others anti town. "Defend" is definitely the wrong word. However, he just seems to be making some room for himself in case he is wrong about me, which is the reason for the big bad meaningless bold FoS. (Sorry, tried to cut this down as much as possible.)

[afatchic]

ok apparently i am not making myself clear. in the first day their are not going to be any facts set into stone hardly, so whoever seems most anti-town, or scummy, is who i am voting for. the reason i started saying they could be explained as town is because a few others were disagreeing with me about it, so i explained how it could be either way, but that i thought it was anti-town, or scummy.

and me asking you who you thought was scummy had a couple of reasons to it. the first is the room has nearly gone dead, almost at a stand still, so with that in mind i was trying to get conversation started. you are acting as if i singled you out and only asked you a question, when really i asked like 5 or 6, the people that have posted in the last few pages. but i still think i can get information from your answer. given you are scum, i don't actually think you would point out your scum buddy when answering that question. so that could help eliminate people to go after later in the game. however i find it weird that you think me asking questions has no point to it. any talk can provide helpful information.

[afatchic]

what happened to FFB? the mod posted saying he would be active again starting the 29th. its now the 31st and haven't heard from them. can we prod anyone who hasn't posted in the last couple days. i think this game has like 12 people in it and it has turned into like a 5 player game.

[Kmd4390]

the reason i started saying they could be explained as town is because a few others were disagreeing with me about it

So after people attacked your case (most people think LK is scum btw), you tried to back off of it a little bit by saying that he could be town?

i don't actually think you would point out your scum buddy when answering that question. so that could help eliminate people to go after later in the game.

Scum will distance themselves from partners by using FoS and putting partners 2nd or 3rd on a LoS. If some one flips scum, you can't assume that some one is town just because the scum were suspicious of them.

what happened to FFB? the mod posted saying he would be active again starting the 29th. its now the 31st and haven't heard from them.

I'd like to know the same thing.

[afatchic]

Kmd that not how i meant it. i just kind of stated it, assuming everyone would understand and agree the first time. but when they didn't i tried to explain my case. i was just stating that there would be a way of justifying it as careless town, but how i was seeing it as scum. i never intended to back off but instead further explain my reasoning. if it came off as i was trying to back off then i worded it wrong.

and i didn't think about them using that to their advantage. i just thought it would help the town by him pointing out people and then us being able to mark them off the list if he is scum.

KMD you say that most think he is scum, who do you personally think is?

[Light-kun]

Okay, well, as a townie, I have to answer the question and pray merit comes from my opinions. But my point is that *IF* I were scum, I could say person X is the scummiest of everyone (excluding myself), and if I flipped scum, X could be partner or not. It can be viewed either way and is completely pointless to think he is or isn't scum based on what I said. So, yeah, no point in that...

Still, if I had to pick scum right now (and I am guessing 1/4th of the town is scum), then I would probably pick one of the major lurkers to be a scum. So, probably Drake (who replaced Dalt) could be a possible scum.

The second is probably someone who is fairly pro town, looks to be pretty good at face value, and I would guess either Hito or Overcaffinated not because they are scummy per se, but because they are good in their post, but rarer than the major contributors. I would probably lean OC though.

Still, I could be completely off. There isn't anyone who has seemed particularly scummy, and I will admit that the above doesn't mean I think they *have* to be scum, but I would make that guessed based on my vibes from the game.

This is to answer you earlier question, afatchic, but at the moment, no one mentioned deserves my vote. *Is still waiting on some replacements to post though... game is still suspiciously lacking activity.*

[afatchic]

LK as strange as this may sound i do completely agree with you. i think Hito and OC could be scum. they haven't acted all that scummy, however they seem like they are lurking. they always pop up and add comments enough to be considered here, however they aren't here enough for people to get a read on them.

[hitogoroshi]

I've gotten that before, actually, but quite frankly I think my style works too well as townie to change it. When people get into a big back-and-fourth chain I tend to lie low. This lasts until something really pings my scum-dar. (In this case, L-K.) At that point, I jump in with a post explaining my reasoning and either vote or throw down suspicion (in this game, it was post 145.)

What I do next depends on the reaction my "surprise" post gets. If I get a counter-argument or chainsaw defense, I push harder and try to break the (probably) scum. If I get an argument that I perceive as townie (obviously, if I post my criteria, it'd cheapen the game) I let off the vote. If the person on the other end tries to ignore the argument, I leave the vote on but don't continually try to justify it (hoping to catch who I know believe is scum in another trap.) The third case happened now, with L-K's brushing off of both the vote and my other post answering afat on why I think he's scum (He doesn't disagree with the logic on why I think he's scummiest? If someone voted me, I'd disagree a hell of a lot. I wanna live!)

So, yes, I do still L-K is scummy, but I don't want to constantly affirm that I think that. I want to wait for more evidence - which is easiest to obtain when someone doesn't know I'm watching so closely.

Of course, with this post, that's all pretty well out the window. But that's fine. L-K interacted with everyone, so there will be content to look back on. (At this point, it'll take quite a bit of convincing to take me off lynching L-K.)

[afatchic]

we'll i still think you should just start to ask questions and pressure and stuff so we don't forget about you. this way it helps out the town because then we can get a better idea about you instead of just accusing you of lurking.

i do agree with alot of what you said. you should vote and judge their reaction to gauge where to go next. however i don't think staying out of the way until you find someone to vote is the right way to do it, since the town doesn't gain much from you.

so im going to ask questions to keep you active. lol so im pretty sure from that last post that LK is your top scum pick, but who would be your second choice?

[afatchic]

oh i also meant to put in my last post that i also agree that his reaction hasn't exactly been convincing to me either.

[[jas]]

omni, SensFan, drake_259 and FlyingFoxBat have been prodded.

Currently seeking a replacement for Brandi.

I am considering a deadline if game activity doesn't pick up. I'll make a decision on this when I have a replacement.

[Kmd4390]

Kmd that not how i meant it. i just kind of stated it, assuming everyone would understand and agree the first time. but when they didn't i tried to explain my case. i was just stating that there would be a way of justifying it as careless town, but how i was seeing it as scum. i never intended to back off but instead further explain my reasoning. if it came off as i was trying to back off then i worded it wrong.

and i didn't think about them using that to their advantage. i just thought it would help the town by him pointing out people and then us being able to mark them off the list if he is scum.

KMD you say that most think he is scum, who do you personally think is?

Ok, so you can see both sides but are considering him scum? Is that correct?

I've already said that my only real suspicions are you and omni.

[Kmd4390]

Hito, the town winning is more important than you living. If you feel you have a case but feel it may get you lynched, post it. If you are town, we will look back and see your case after you die. Lying low is not a good playstyle.

[afatchic]

i agree KMD thats more or less what i was trying to say, i just can't ever seem to explain it in words the way i am thinking it. but yeah you got it right in your first post.

[Kmd4390]

So if you can see both sides, why are you so convinced that he is scum?

[afatchic]

it just seems way to hard to logically explain everything as town. he just seems like a sloppy scum, if that makes sence.

[hitogoroshi]

so im going to ask questions to keep you active. lol so im pretty sure from that last post that LK is your top scum pick, but who would be your second choice?

Well honestly I haven't gotten any major scum tells from anyone else. But assuming LK flips scum, I'm going to go with FFB. He seems to have been pushing a lurker policy lynch on Brandi, but I cannot find a single instance of him so much as noticing FFB. You'd think he'd be on him like stink on a monkey, if he wanted lurkers.

[afatchic]

hito while that does make sense, what about omni, sensfan, drake, OC, and you. before the last two post i would assume you are lurking. on the other hand, he may have singled her out because she is his scum buddy. he may realize that his chances of getting lynched are really high right now(i think he is at L-2 but im not sure) so he may be trying to distance himself from her. and if everyone does turn and lynch her and she turns out scum then no one would think LK scum since he just led the lynch of a scum.

this logic may be flawed, but it makes sense to me, so what does everyone else think?

and LK why did you single out Brandi instead of one of the others.

[hitogoroshi]

Bussing is something that could certainly happen. But L-K has, in fact, throw out accusations regarding lurking to everyone BUT FFB, who seems easily the most prominent candidate if you were going to hunt lurkers. Instead, he focuses on Brandi, saying multiples times that it's because she lurks. Why no mention of the biggest lurker of them all?

That scenario is one that is plausible, but that's a bit entry level, and I think that ignoring your partner seems to be more plausible than the basic bus. This is especially in light of his multiple "mistakes" - perhaps he's too afraid of having a telling when talking about his scumbuddy and so is ignoring him entirely.

I'll post afat's question to L-K, but slightly modified - LK, why did you single out Brandi and not FlyingFoxBat?

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP for clarity

When I say "that scenario" at the start of the second paragraph, I'm talking about afat's theory. Also, I meant "afraid of having a tell", not telling - damn -ings, I had so many of em in the sentence I didn't wanna stop. :p

[[jas]]

TheInvisibleCop replaces Brandi, effective immediately

[drake_259]

yh im still here, i'll catch up tomorrow morning

[omni]

I must say afatchic has been a bit suspicious on here since arriving, but not really enough for me to change my opinion about L-K

[Light-kun]

Granted, this has not been my best game ever, but how am I supposed to argue a case that, aside from the fact that I am not scum, is true?

Hito, my only real problem with your 207 post is that it indicates that you highly value being alive in this game. Granted, no one on either side WANTS to die, but scum would be more inclined to cling on to life than a townie. Minor FoS.

*******Typed earlier, but not posted due to company coming over*************

Second: "Why are did you single out Brandi and not FFB?"

FFB was supposedly going to return after the 29th, and by the time that rolled over, I had already focused on Brandi, but switching focus would have been viewed as "vote hopping." After she asked for replacement,I reasoned that since the 29th was Friday, it didn't seem to be that far fetched that maybe he didn't want to play the weekend he got back? I dunno, his seems less like lurking and more like a disappearance. On the other hand, Brandi just kept stalling and avoiding serious discussion, which more equates to lurking than the absence of FFB.

Also, I (think that I) have yet to accuse SirD of lurking.. he has been fairly active...

[Kmd4390]

Hito, my only real problem with your 207 post is that it indicates that you highly value being alive in this game. Granted, no one on either side WANTS to die, but scum would be more inclined to cling on to life than a townie. Minor FoS.

Agreed.
That being said....

Second: "Why are did you single out Brandi and not FFB?"

FFB was supposedly going to return after the 29th, and by the time that rolled over, I had already focused on Brandi, but switching focus would have been viewed as "vote hopping."

Why do you care how you are viewed? If you saw FFB as suspicious, you should have spoken up. Why are you so leniant on FFB? You called out Brandi for lurking and also Omni earlier. You probably called out more lurkers but I can't recall any right now.