Invitational 10: 2005-2006. Game over! before 624

[bluesoul]

bluesoul has been keeping a low profile and has not posted since Aug 11.

Yes, real life takes priority as it normally does. The e_k wagon built up more than I was really expecting and I don't know if I like that it went that readily from the former vote-leader pointing a finger. I think one of the other invitational games had the same scenario, mneme the vote-leader deflected to pooky, the wagon got back on mneme who was in fact lynched as scum. I'm not equating the playstyle but I am equating the scenario and I'm not sure when exactly DGB stopped being the best lynch for the day. I'm not going to fight this particular wagon but I am going to be inspecting it rather closely, along with the original DGB wagon.

FYI: Not volunteering to self-hammer isn't scummy. Just sayin'.

[bluesoul]

I realize the above post has very little content, I'm behind on reading and will try to get caught up but being a grown-up sucks.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB - are you basically saying that you want someone to hammer now? You seem awfully excited about that possibility.
[...]
DGB - Try convincing me why I should vote. It won't work, but I dare you to try.

This has to be among the most ridiculous things I've ever read. What are you saying?

"I'm not gonna vote, nener-nener-nener, you can't make me, your mother wears army boots! I dare you, if you try, I'm gonna tell the teacher!"

Seriously, scumbag. Somebody has to convince you that you should vote in a mafia game???

[DrippingGoofball]

I think one of the other invitational games had the same scenario, mneme the vote-leader deflected to pooky, the wagon got back on mneme who was in fact lynched as scum. I'm not equating the playstyle but I am equating the scenario and I'm not sure when exactly DGB stopped being the best lynch for the day. I'm not going to fight this particular wagon but I am going to be inspecting it rather closely, along with the original DGB wagon.

FYI: Not volunteering to self-hammer isn't scummy. Just sayin'.

Who said not volunteering to self-hammer is scummy? That's not me. You showed up only long enough to make things up.

So you're saying that the first wagon in another invitational game was on a scumbag, so I must be too? Hey you forgot that the first wagon was on MBL, how about that? That's your argument?

[bluesoul]

Neither were attacks, I'm not moving my vote at this point. I was considering it but no, you went from idiot to crybaby to a flash of possible insight to being back to revealing your true colors.

Again apparently I'm making things up, 518 looks pretty, uh, existent to me.

[DrippingGoofball]

Yeah, all I said was that elvis won't self-hammer. Where do I say this means anything regarding her alignment? You ARE making things up.

[pablito]

DGB - You and I differ on philosophies. I'd much rather not throw my vote around.
I agree though that bluesoul somehow twisted your ek-selfhammer request. bluesoul just did come out of nowhere lately.

Maybe my words came out wrong, but DGB, I hope to see you rebuild your case or something. You've been hiding behind this e_k thing quite a bit. You sounded somewhat reasonable when you were on the defense, but now while being on the attack, you have a sense of desperation and extreme defensiveness. Sounds as if you're trying to deflect against a suddenly building attack against you. Seems like elias and bluesoul - who were mostly absent since you've made your wide-net desperation analysis - start to mention that your case has been dropped - and you are starting to change.

I intended to ask you to comment on the current atmosphere and why NOW is much better than after everyone finally jumps into the game for me to make a vote. You're pushing votes when I think it's only appropriate to wait for all the replacements to settle. I want to know why you DGB are insistent right now. Maybe my words came out wrong, but I would've hoped that you would interpreted my words how I intended (as described above). Fact that you saw me as truly taunting you makes me feel that you're strongly seeing me as scummy, but you haven't made a case on me - only PJ. That smells scummy and if I were to put a vote at the moment, it'd be you. But I think it's much better for me to wait. Because I worry that a bit of being annoyed is clouding me.

[pablito]

bluesoul - where were you considering moving your vote to? saying you would've and then say "I'm okay on DGB" sounds a bit odd. This isn't a new DGB we're seeing really. Sure, the timing is of notice, but if you were considering moving to e_k or somewhere else than "not voting", then I want to know who and why.

[pablito]

e_k = how come you blame me of setting the trap and patrick for locking the cage but yet chamber asked "who tipped the scales" earlier on and you obliged to answer who you thought was making scum pairings.

Forgive me for not paying attention to that earlier sequence, but you were quite defensive and miffed for answering a question that you actually pretty much answered earlier.

[HackerHuck]

OK, I'm back from vacation and have read through a good chunk of the thread. Don't ask me why, but I still have to read pages 10-17 before I'd be comfortable throwing a vote anywhere yet. Based on what I've read so far, I'm not really seeing Elvis_Knits as mafia.

I will have some time on Monday to finish up the last few pages and put together my thoughts. Sorry for the continued delay, but it was actually quite nice not to have any internet access for almost a week.

[bluesoul]

Refusing to selfhammer isn't indicative of anything other than the refuser isn't a moron, so why bring it up at all unless you think it's telling of something?

And I was going to do my catching up with an e_k vote in mind. I'm still gonna catch up but unless I come to that vote of my own conclusions I'm keeping it on DGB. Nothing I've seen so far leads me to wanting to vote e_k but I've got about three pages to catch up on. Anyone can be made to look scummy when they're constantly on the defense, I would think everyone here knows that, and honestly the thought we're going to reason out a scum lynch day 1 is silly; PJ had it spot on with his "you can catch some good players, but you can't catch them all" statement.

Off to work, will check the thread at about 6:30.

[DrippingGoofball]

Refusing to selfhammer isn't indicative of anything other than the refuser isn't a moron, so why bring it up at all unless you think it's telling of something?

Because I was looking at who wasn't voting for elvis for their motives if she turns up scum or town? I included her too for humor. Geez.

If you think anyone can me made to look scummy when they're constantly on the defensive, how come that excuse only works for elvis? The case on her is not even about being over-defensive. I have a feeling you're not really paying attention. Hmmm... food for thought.

[bluesoul]

Refusing to selfhammer isn't indicative of anything other than the refuser isn't a moron, so why bring it up at all unless you think it's telling of something?

Because I was looking at who wasn't voting for elvis for their motives if she turns up scum or town? I included her too for humor. Geez.

If you think anyone can me made to look scummy when they're constantly on the defensive, how come that excuse only works for elvis? The case on her is not even about being over-defensive. I have a feeling you're not really paying attention. Hmmm... food for thought.

It didn't just work for elvis, it's a statement on mafia in general and never mind that I was trying to cut you a little slack. And being made to look scummy isn't entirely about being overdefensive (pot to kettle: you're black). I think pretty much anyone (else) here knows what I'm talking about. I've already acknowledged I need to catch up but I can't help but assume that some of these votes are because of responses made once the wagon started. Maybe I'll be proven wrong.

[Patrick]

Refusing to selfhammer isn't indicative of anything other than the refuser isn't a moron, so why bring it up at all unless you think it's telling of something?

I think you're reaching here.

and honestly the thought we're going to reason out a scum lynch day 1 is silly; PJ had it spot on with his "you can catch some good players, but you can't catch them all" statement.

This is so bad I have to take you to task on it. PJ did not have it spot on - his point of view likely comes from several bad experiences he's had where playing with a list of good players has resulted in a town loss. His experiences are not necessarily representitive of what really goes on (I've taken part in a number of high level games that ended in town wins). And of course it's possible to lynch scum on day 1. This kind of attitude is seriously not helpful, and heck, you yourself brought up an example of a high level game where scum was lynched on day 1.

Ether has been rising in my suspicions, just because this kind of disinterest (especially when game is not boring) is more consistent with how she plays as scum than as town.

I'm not all that bothered by the lack of vote from pablito and elias at this point, because I doubt the day will come to a halt just yet. pablito gives me better vibes than PJ did actually, but he's hard for me to read.

[elvis_knits]

e_k = how come you blame me of setting the trap and patrick for locking the cage but yet chamber asked "who tipped the scales" earlier on and you obliged to answer who you thought was making scum pairings.

Forgive me for not paying attention to that earlier sequence, but you were quite defensive and miffed for answering a question that you actually pretty much answered earlier.

When chamber asked me who tipped the scales, I wasn't immediately attacked. So it didn't feel like a trap. It seemed more like an honest request for information. It was the first time I had brought up my idea that I disliked so much pairing discussion on D1, so it seemed natural for people to ask questions. It didn't feel like a loaded question to me since the question didn't cause me to be immediately attacked.

I felt like you were bringing up a topic that was clearly making me unpopular with many of the players. Asking me to repeat myself and explain myself again on a topic that has alienated me from many players is asking me to alienate and piss people off again. Sort of like "Tell us again why you beat your wife?" So then I have to explain myself again, which opens up all the old wounds and surprise, surprise, Patrick attacks me immediately. What did you expect to happen? Everyone suddenly agrees with me? No. Of course not. They still disagree with me, but now they are even more pissed that I bring it up again (which I wouldn't have if you hadn't asked).

I felt like you were posing a question that was the equivalent of "why don't you and him fight?"

[elvis_knits]

Also, I blame MBL for the dissolution of the DGB wagon.

[pablito]

Your answers to my questions sound justified. Thanks, e_k.

[bluesoul]

Refusing to selfhammer isn't indicative of anything other than the refuser isn't a moron, so why bring it up at all unless you think it's telling of something?

I think you're reaching here.

That's fine. I'm not asking for agreement.

and honestly the thought we're going to reason out a scum lynch day 1 is silly; PJ had it spot on with his "you can catch some good players, but you can't catch them all" statement.

This is so bad I have to take you to task on it. PJ did not have it spot on - his point of view likely comes from several bad experiences he's had where playing with a list of good players has resulted in a town loss. His experiences are not necessarily representitive of what really goes on (I've taken part in a number of high level games that ended in town wins). And of course it's possible to lynch scum on day 1. This kind of attitude is seriously not helpful, and heck, you yourself brought up an example of a high level game where scum was lynched on day 1.

I didn't say the thought of lynching scum day 1 is silly, I said the thought of reasoning out such a lynch is silly; that it would be an entirely logical and rational decision by everyone involved on day one only proves that someone played poorly as scum (and yes, mneme played poorly as scum).

Actually I'm probably done with this topic, it has to do with mafia theory in general and has no bearing on this game. If you disagree that's fine, but it's not gonna further anything in this game so I'm done with it.

May have time later tonight or tomorrow morning for more catching up, I have a writing project in progress at the moment.

[DrippingGoofball]

Also, I blame MBL for the dissolution of the DGB wagon.

He will be vindicated. He will have a parade. He will be the toast of the town. You will seethe as you watch it all from afar, within earshot of bugles and the off key din of the drum corps...

[DrippingGoofball]

^^^
Sarcasm is scummy, just to beat you all to the punch.

[DrippingGoofball]

Refusing to selfhammer isn't indicative of anything other than the refuser isn't a moron, so why bring it up at all unless you think it's telling of something?

I think you're reaching here.

That's fine. I'm not asking for agreement.

Erm, we're the ones who are going to judge whether you're reaching or not, and we're the ones who are going to decide whether the reaching is part of a case that makes you lynch-worthy. Whether or not you are asking for agreement is not relevant.

[bluesoul]

Those are pretty big words when this goes back to a statement that you allege was made in humor so try getting off your fucking pedestal. Nobody else here is going to vote me because they disagree on the principles of self lynching.

FYI: Not volunteering to self-hammer isn't scummy. Just sayin'.

[HackerHuck]

Well, I actually liked the case presented by DGB on E_K, but I don't like the speed. I need to look at the context she presented and I'll put together all my thoughts tomorrow.

[DrippingGoofball]

Those are pretty big words when this goes back to a statement that you allege was made in humor so try getting off your fucking pedestal. Nobody else here is going to vote me because they disagree on the principles of self lynching.

FYI: Not volunteering to self-hammer isn't scummy. Just sayin'.

You're a funny one. You're still making it sound like someone said that not volunteering to self-hammer is scummy. No one did. Of course no one is going to vote you on 'principles of self lynching' because that's not what it's about. It's about you misrepresenting people's words to create suspicion and fuel a momentum against them.

[elvis_knits]

^^^
Sarcasm is scummy, just to beat you all to the punch.

Sarcasm isn't scummy, but paranoia is!