Mini 642: Bodyguard 7: (Game Over)

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
killa seven (1): TDC
BridgesAndBaloons (1): TheSweatPantsNinja
TDC (1): killa seven
jonathantan86 (1): BridgesAndBaloons
Alabaska J (1): CallMeLiam
CallMeLiam (1): Alabaska J

Not voting (1): jonathantan86

With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

That's not acting too townie, that's putting a lot of effort into appearing pro-town without actually providing the town with much.

I just noticed this.
So, by insuring that the town's chances of winning I increased by as much as 40%, and by gaining a 1/10 shot of an auto win I didn't "provide the town with much?"

By the way, I didn't really put much effort into it. As soon as I singed up for this game I spent about an hour looking to see if I could break it.

Also, I'm not

trying

to look pro-town here. Anyone who says I'm townie because I revealed the best strategy for town is a big idiot. Completely. See:
a) NO ONE SHOULD EVER even

think

of saying who they think is town in this game. It's crucial for this particular set-up. After the mass-claim, it's not as a bad thing to do.
b) If I were scum, I could easily post the work I did pre-game anyway, and hoped that WIFOM would make me unlynchable.

Even though I personally think b is a really stupid idea, it's possible, so there's no way anyone should think I'm townie for saying what I said.

And, I'm not an idiot, so I realized (before the game started) that no one should think I'm townie for posting the winning strategy for town.

Anyway, the fact that you're attacking me for "trying to look pro-town" is very ridiculous. That type of attack is way more of an "icing on the cake" then a valid reason for a vote. Come up with something actually scummy that I can defend myself against.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Forgot to do this:

unvote

.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

b) If I were scum, I could easily post the work I did pre-game anyway, and hoped that WIFOM would make me unlynchable.

I subscribe to this view. Its all the. . . pageantry you added to it. Like you really wanted people to see how much work you had done. That's why I'm saying you're putting work into

appearing

pro-town.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Like you really wanted people to see how much work you had done.

I was pretty proud. I usually right huge preambles or stuff like that when I do work that I'm proud of. An example of this is my second game, Mini 553 posts 486-489 where I posted a massive summary of the game when I came in (it's probably not worth it to read the posts). I made several posts before the summary talking about all the work I was doing, and during the summary I mentioned all the reasoning behind why I thought a certain player was not a pro-town power role and expressed that I did a whole lot of work.

That game I was a townie. I wasn't

trying

to apear pro-town. It was just a by product of me being proud of the work I did. This game is the same case.

[bird1111]

CallMeLiam and killa seven prodded.

[bird1111]

Do I need to deadline you all?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

It's the weekend, so maybe everyone else is busy.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

That game I was a townie. I wasn't trying to apear pro-town. It was just a by product of me being proud of the work I did. This game is the same case.

If you had posted an excellent, detailed, attack on someone else, that would have been great. Posting that you had a great idea and then going on about whether or not you should reveal your reasoning, that's not really pro-town.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

ah yes, but I wasn't sure if it was worth the benefit of the town knowing exactly what to do if the scum would know also. That's why I wanted to see if other people thought I should reveal my reasoning or not.

[killa seven]

im here i guess..

[BridgesAndBaloons]

do you have anything to say?

[CallMeLiam]

I'm here. I'll read up this evening and throw in a real post. Sorry guys.

[CallMeLiam]

Um. . . no. Pro-town powerroles ought to attempt to hunt scum like everyone else. Having noncontributing powerroles is an excellent way to get powerroles outed.

This. Lurking and playing quiet as a power role is a great way to show everyone you're a power role.

There are tactics like "hunting for reactions" that townies rather than power roles should use.

I rarely like hunting for reactions as a townie play anyway, but fair point.

As for the BaB\TSN thing: I honestly don't think scum would put themselves knowingly at the centre of discussion so early and so strongly that early in the game. I agree that it hasn't helped us out much in terms of scum huting, but it has provided a lot of postage that we can weed through as and when people starting pinging scumdars a lot more.

Speaking of which, Killa: is there any chance you'll furnish us with some opinions soon?

[jonathantan86]

I will put a vote on killa seven to pressure him to speak. I do not mean to lynch the lurker just yet though.

Vote: killa seven

This puts him at L-2.

For some reason, people (except for TSPN) seem to be ignoring my two questions which I'll quote here for convenience (maybe it's because not many people have posted):

1) I think that the scum's best plan is to have at least one member (maybe the other can avoid controversy) actively engage in conversation to weed out powerroles, probing if necessary, even if it means risking a scum-tell. (The numbers are in an earlier post.) Do you agree with me?
2) Supposing I'm right (even if you think I'm not), who fits the profile above the most?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

As for the BaB\TSN thing: I honestly don't think scum would put themselves knowingly at the centre of discussion so early and so strongly that early in the game.

Are you saying TSN put himself in the center of discussion? (Yes or no answer, please).

Also, what you said is

very anti-town

. Please NEVER AGAIN mention if you think someone is townie again. Do not say any things that make someone pro-town until after the mass-claim. Thank you very much. Please tell me if you don't understand.

Secondly, that's just wrong. I always put myself in the center of discussion regardless of whether I'm scum or not. What you're saying here is complete WIFOM. What were you trying to accomplish by saying this?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I will put a vote on killa seven to pressure him to speak. I do not mean to lynch the lurker just yet though.

FOS:johnathantan86

. Btw, it's not

who

you voted for that got you the FOS.

1) I think that the scum's best plan is to have at least one member (maybe the other can avoid controversy) actively engage in conversation to weed out powerroles, probing if necessary, even if it means risking a scum-tell. (The numbers are in an earlier post.) Do you agree with me?
2) Supposing I'm right (even if you think I'm not), who fits the profile above the most?

I ignored this question because the answer is super obvious imo.
THERE IS

NEVER

a best play for scum. Because of WIFOM and metas of what scum do, and because different pairs always have different strategies, scum always do different things each game. It's pointless to speculate about what scum could do. For all I know, you're a scum trying to mislead us. Or there could be

two

scum lurkers.
Bottom of the line, every mafia group is different in every game, and it's impossible for townies to know what the hell they're doing until their both lynched.

So, everything about question 1 is wrong in my oppinion. I believe what you asked is side-tracking the town even more. I was trying to speed up the random voting stage earlier and failed miserably. We started scum-hunting more when I resolved my strategy for town, but it seems like you're killing the momentum again by asking this question. Can we just continue

scum-hunting?

thanks.

2) No one has been fitting the profile of role-fishing. If I saw any role-fishing, then I would be voting for that person. Role-fishing is very scummy for this game.
And no, (preemptively saying this because I know what you're thinking...) I wasn't role-fishing. Everyone has still not given me a plausible way a power role could slip-up and how what I did would make people slip up.
No one is stupid in this game. No one is stupid enough to make a slip-up that easily.

We have a bunch of lurkers to fit the second profile, and I don't think me singling one lurker out is pro-town. If you insist, I will, but I don't think it's pro-town for me to say so.

[CallMeLiam]

Are you saying TSN put himself in the center of discussion? (Yes or no answer, please).

I'm saying you did, not TSN.

Also, what you said is

very anti-town

. Please NEVER AGAIN mention if you think someone is townie again. Do not say any things that make someone pro-town until after the mass-claim. Thank you very much. Please tell me if you don't understand.

I understand where you're coming from, but disagree.

Secondly, that's just wrong. I always put myself in the center of discussion regardless of whether I'm scum or not. What you're saying here is complete WIFOM. What were you trying to accomplish by saying this?

I am trying to say that I don't expect scum to put themselves in the centre of the game. If in fact your logic was skewed to help scum you'd have to know that someone would see it, and if it helped the town then I don't think scum would be eager to make their lives harder.
I also think that it's better for scum to slip out of the limelight because when your every post is being analysed then the less posts you can get away with the better. The trick is to lurk without seeming to and that's very hard to master or to seemingly help the town but actually steer them wrong and this requires a very keen analytical mind which not everyone has.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Secondly, that's just wrong. I always put myself in the center of discussion regardless of whether I'm scum or not. What you're saying here is complete WIFOM. What were you trying to accomplish by saying this?

I agree. That makes just as little sense as "powerroles should stay quiet." If people's role were truly predictable by

noise level

, mafia would be a very simple thing.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

CML. It's a simple question.

what were you trying to accomplish by saying this?

I'm having a really hard time trying to think of a townie explanation for that, and an easy time thinking of a whole lot of scummy explanations.

You wanna know a good way to lurk without getting caught? Discuss the strategy of lurking without actually scum-hunting. Oh wait a second...

FOS: CML

[TDC]

I feel that alabaska, me, and bab, have all been relatively noisy, and cml, jt, slaine, and tdc have been relatively quiet.

(These estimations were made with no research whatsoever).

I would agree with most of that, but I have to wonder how Alabaska ended up in the noisy category.

We have a bunch of lurkers to fit the second profile, and I don't think me singling one lurker out is pro-town. If you insist, I will, but I don't think it's pro-town for me to say so.

Not sure what you're saying there, you

have

singled out Slaine, iirc.

[Talking about BaB]
I honestly don't think scum would put themselves knowingly at the centre of discussion so early and so strongly that early in the game.

The trick is to lurk without seeming to and that's very hard to master or to seemingly help the town but actually steer them wrong and this requires a very keen analytical mind which not everyone has.

How have you come to the conclusion that BaB does not have this "keen analytical mind"?


Still like my vote.

[CallMeLiam]

CML. It's a simple question.

what were you trying to accomplish by saying this?

TSN seemed to be suspicious of you, and I was explaining why I wasn't.

You wanna know a good way to lurk without getting caught? Discuss the strategy of lurking without actually scum-hunting. Oh wait a second...

FOS: CML

At the moment the player I think is scummiest is MIA from the thread with a concussion so I'm just trying to keep my head in the game until he returns. Killa's lack of action isn't something I feel compelled to label as scummy yet, but it's not helpful.

[CallMeLiam]

[Talking about BaB]
I honestly don't think scum would put themselves knowingly at the centre of discussion so early and so strongly that early in the game.

The trick is to lurk without seeming to and that's very hard to master or to seemingly help the town but actually steer them wrong and this requires a very keen analytical mind which not everyone has.

How have you come to the conclusion that BaB does not have this "keen analytical mind"?

I have not come to any such conclusion. BaB's logic is solid and if he is misleading us with his statistics I can't see it.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

TSN seemed to be suspicious of you, and I was explaining why I wasn't.

I still don't understand what is pro-town about defending someone, ESPECIALLY when they are in no immediate threat of being lynched.
Unless... were you attacking TSN's logic? If you were doing that than nvm.

mod: please do some proddage.

Thanks!

I know Alabaska J is V/LA, but I'll see if anyone else needs it.

[TDC]

[Talking about BaB]
I honestly don't think scum would put themselves knowingly at the centre of discussion so early and so strongly that early in the game.

The trick is to lurk without seeming to and that's very hard to master or to seemingly help the town but actually steer them wrong and this requires a very keen analytical mind which not everyone has.

How have you come to the conclusion that BaB does not have this "keen analytical mind"?

I have not come to any such conclusion. BaB's logic is solid and if he is misleading us with his statistics I can't see it.

How did you conclude he's town then?
Your second quote seems to say that what he's doing could be a good scum plan (if he has a "keen analytical mind"), yet the first quote says you doubt it.

Gone for the weekend, as announced last week.