Invitational 10: 2005-2006. Game over! before 624

[MrBuddyLee]

My comment demonstrates the strangeness of MBL's level of certainty that I am scum, but only contemplates that I am mafia. Why doesn't he contemplate that I am an SK? Why is he so absorbed in finding my scum buddies before he actually finds out if I am scum or not?

This is bizarre. First off, it's unlikely that there would be a serial killer in an invitational game.. the net result would be a game of about half the length on average, most likely over in 3 days and extremely swingy. A terrible way to test the skill of the best vs. the best. More curiously, e_k claims to find my search for scum pairings unusual.. isn't that just about the best way to find scum in any game?

e_k, do you often find players scummy for pursuing possible scumpairings on D1? Is testing scumpairings not a tool in your personal scumhunting toolbox?

e_k, you sound pissed that I'm on to you, enough so that you joined the "Anti-MBL Cult" in the General forum yesterday.

I take that as a high compliment, and I don't think you'd be ticked enough to do that if you were town right now. I think I have you dead to rights and you really want DGB dead quickly (perhaps to make you look better?) so you can kill me off tonight before I ring you up.

Also, I find it weird that MBL seems to be giving DGB every possible avenue to make herself seem less scummy. What has convinced him that she is town and deserves this type of babying?

I'm not convinced that she's town by any means. But I don't think her posts have been thoroughly examined, nor the quality of the wagon on her. I'd like her to post a serious analysis of all other players, cause right now she's latched on to the mistaken idea that I'm scum and she "thinks everyone else is townish". Hardly solid information to go on tomorrow if DGB is our lynch of choice.

That's what I'm trying to do right now, and I think more people should do the same. You seem a little too confident about DGB's alignment right now..

I'm fascinated to hear someone argue that the optimal play as DGB's scumpartner is to bail her out over and over again on her way down in flames. Take a look at what LoudmouthLee did in Himalayan, a game I replaced him in as scum a few years back:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3140

He didn't just jump on a DGB bus.. he pissed her off beyond belief by starting it from out of nowhere. (They were scumpartners.) It's the one game I can recall off the top of my head, but I have a feeling there are many where this phenomenon occurs:

How on Earth did I end up being lynched?

Easy! When I post, whether I am town, doctor, cop, scum... I just have to post and I get lynched. No one ever thinks I'm Town, haha! I'm a free lynch for the scum if I am Town. But this time I WAS scum...

So I tried to use the opportunity to throw as many names in my posts as possible to create mayhem while posting my way to being lynched.

note to DGB's and e_k's scumpartner: are you prepared to win this game on your own?

[MrBuddyLee]

If she's a supersaint, she should stop playing jester and claim; those are stronger later.

I've never been in a game with a supersaint, but apparently:

However, when a majority of votes is reached on you, the last person to vote for you, or the commonly called person who places the "Hammer vote", or the one who votes to make a majority, will also die along with you.

Since scum are the only people who would know whether or not the claim is true, they'd be the only people to know they should avoid hammering her. So once a supersaint claims, they're going to get nightkilled before scum would ever be forced to hammer them to end a day.

So why would you encourage DGB to claim supersaint, Ether?

[elvis_knits]

Reposting for the benefit of MBL who seems to have not paid attention to my view of scum pairings on D1.

DGB, what are your thoughts on Bluesoul, and MBL's interactions with him?

The scumbags no longer can claim Mason, that's for sure. That whole bit about percentages was a total red herring argument. There is no way this argument was about an actual scumtell, it seemed very contrived and planned. Bus'ing is definitely a possibility here.

From my memory of this game, there's been quite a few people drawing connections between players (or maybe it's just a few players drawing quite a lot of connections). This post by DGB trying to say that she sees bussing is just an avenue for me to comment on the "connections" phenomenon in this game.

Normally, I really don't like to try to connect people on D1. Usually not even until we have lynched scum. Maybe I'm playing on a lower level than the rest of you, but I feel like it just confuses things. I feel that it is a great scum tactic to set yourself up connected to a townie, or connect your buddy to a townie. So when you allow that sort of rampant BS speculation, you open the door for a lot of scum manipulation.

But maybe I'm not thinking about things in a complex enough way. Does speculating on scum buddies or groups on D1, actually help any of you? Am I being too simplistic?

And for the record, I do think that everyone that has tried making these "connections" on D1 is somewhat scummy. I'd have to look at individual instances to be able to comment on the exact degree of scumminess. But in general, I think it's scummy move.

[Patrick]

Apologies for lack of quotes and lack of checking any page other than the last two; I’m typing this thing offline due to the extortionate cost of access etc etc.

@pablito, the main part for me to respond to is my post 261, which I assume was a comment on MBL’s activity. Of course, MBL posts content as both alignments. He’s doing more in this game than I’ve experienced in all 4 of my past games with him (3 of which he was scum). I don’t understand your interpretation of DGB’s half claim either, but even if she was following some convoluted scheme, I’d say it’s high time to realise that it’s not helping. Who do you suspect the most from your radar list? Presumably DGB is up there somewhere due to the vote, but who else?

I find it unlikely MBL/DGB are scum together – there’s just too much open coaching and support. (That said, since this morning, it seems he’s arguing the same, after previously saying he’d look bad if DBG is lynched as scum. Hmm.) I could see MBLscum trying to look good if he knows DGB will come up town; I could also see genuinely uncertain MBLtown. I think I’d be looking into elvis and pablito the most if DBG is lynched as town, but as I’ve said already, a number of people need more attention tomorrow if still around, because of how little they’ve done today. If DGB is scum, my suspicion of pablito would fall somewhat, but elvis is probably still a good suspect.

[elvis_knits]

My comment demonstrates the strangeness of MBL's level of certainty that I am scum, but only contemplates that I am mafia. Why doesn't he contemplate that I am an SK? Why is he so absorbed in finding my scum buddies before he actually finds out if I am scum or not?

This is bizarre. First off, it's unlikely that there would be a serial killer in an invitational game.. the net result would be a game of about half the length on average, most likely over in 3 days and extremely swingy. A terrible way to test the skill of the best vs. the best. More curiously, e_k claims to find my search for scum pairings unusual.. isn't that just about the best way to find scum in any game?

e_k, do you often find players scummy for pursuing possible scumpairings on D1? Is testing scumpairings not a tool in your personal scumhunting toolbox?

You might be right, but to assume that we don't have an SK is sort of weird IMO. I have been in tons of minis with SKs. And if you read my above post where I quote myself, no I do NOT find scum pairings at all useful on D1. I find them useful later when we have caught scum. Until that time, I see it mostly as confusion and manipulation.

e_k, you sound pissed that I'm on to you, enough so that you joined the "Anti-MBL Cult" in the General forum yesterday.

I take that as a high compliment, and I don't think you'd be ticked enough to do that if you were town right now. I think I have you dead to rights and you really want DGB dead quickly (perhaps to make you look better?) so you can kill me off tonight before I ring you up.

MBL, you sound pissed that I keep calling you on your BS arguments against me, enough so that you are bolding parts of your comments to me in an attempt to be more obnoxious.

The post where you laid out your "case" against me is so full of holes that it isn't funny. I responded to every argument of yours and asked you several questions. You, however, have not responded to my post. You should realize this indicates you are beaten.

Also, I notice your stance on DGB is swinging crazily from "she's town let's give her a chance" to "she's e_k's scum partner."

Which is it?

Also, I find it weird that MBL seems to be giving DGB every possible avenue to make herself seem less scummy. What has convinced him that she is town and deserves this type of babying?

I'm not convinced that she's town by any means. But I don't think her posts have been thoroughly examined, nor the quality of the wagon on her. I'd like her to post a serious analysis of all other players, cause right now she's latched on to the mistaken idea that I'm scum and she "thinks everyone else is townish". Hardly solid information to go on tomorrow if DGB is our lynch of choice.

Go ahead and beg her for information if you want. It just seems like you are assuming she is town, and trying to bring her round to being a more helpful townie. Which is an odd stance to take on someone I deem scummy.

[elvis_knits]

If she's a supersaint, she should stop playing jester and claim; those are stronger later.

I've never been in a game with a supersaint, but apparently:

However, when a majority of votes is reached on you, the last person to vote for you, or the commonly called person who places the "Hammer vote", or the one who votes to make a majority, will also die along with you.

Since scum are the only people who would know whether or not the claim is true, they'd be the only people to know they should avoid hammering her. So once a supersaint claims, they're going to get nightkilled before scum would ever be forced to hammer them to end a day.

So why would you encourage DGB to claim supersaint, Ether?

Why would scum know if there is a supersaint in the game?

[chamber]

If she's a supersaint, she should stop playing jester and claim; those are stronger later.

I've never been in a game with a supersaint, but apparently:

However, when a majority of votes is reached on you, the last person to vote for you, or the commonly called person who places the "Hammer vote", or the one who votes to make a majority, will also die along with you.

Since scum are the only people who would know whether or not the claim is true, they'd be the only people to know they should avoid hammering her. So once a supersaint claims, they're going to get nightkilled before scum would ever be forced to hammer them to end a day.

So why would you encourage DGB to claim supersaint, Ether?

Why would scum know if there is a supersaint in the game?

They would know shes town (again presuming no sk) and thus that shes likely telling the truth.

[pablito]

Oh, it was a random vote? Then maybe it was your revote on DGB. I'll have to look back, bluesoul.

[bluesoul]

So why would you encourage DGB to claim supersaint, Ether?

This has been my biggest issue with Ether thus far. If DGB is a SS, then Ether made an awful play; the SS has two uses during the day.

1.) The SS goads the town into a lynch, and unwitting scum hammer, trading 1 for 1 and is a protown move by the SS.

2.) The SS, being wagoned to death, claims as such and let's the town lynch the second scummiest appearing player.

Both scenarios are only especially helpful in later days and given the circumstances today all bets are off. The first scenario is only helpful when the possibility of a SS has not been aired by the town or by the wagonee themself. Either way, Ether had absolutely no reason to bring it up; it's probably just personal experience, we used SS a LOT in #mafia and got a good feel for how to deal with it. Shea was also around during that time and the possibility of a Super-Saint is not lost on me, but

I

haven't been begging DGB to claim it either.

MBL's 376 is right on; nightkilling is the main way to deal with an SS obviously. Thus, an SS

lynch

is the correct play

if

the town has a second lynch in mind and wants to do both in one day. That doesn't appear to be the case at the moment, and given the snail's pace of the game we'd be deadlined before coming to a consensus on a 2nd lynch, imo.

Honestly the only reason I'd see to push that hard for an SS claim is Ether is scum and is warning her buddies not to rush into a lynch and possibly get killed. Also, the sentence "if she's scum, there's still no harm waiting on a supersaint claim" in 371 just slays me. I don't understand it, I find it unbelievably obtuse to essentially offer the scum a safe claim. Why do you want DGBscum to claim SS if she's not?

That said, DGB hasn't even posted in almost a week; there hasn't been anything of substance in over a week (anything even slightly more than "lynch me, bye"). I do not intend to let her defeated attitude keep us from making a lynch day one. She has been active in other games every single day since her last post here six days ago. And that's bullshit. Hell I'd rather lynch her than have Shea have to find another replacement.

If you guys are really worried about the SS possibility, and think there's scum on the DGB wagon, roll a dice and we'll have our hammer. Personally I'd like to see Ether hammer but dice would be fair and unswayable by scum.

[Ether]

Free wireless in my hotel room (at least through the ninth). In your face, Patrick.

Ether, that's like shaving a goat's udder after it can no longer withstand the hail. I haven't said you have been not serious at all either. Furthermore, I don't remember saying anything about Ether's seriosity when discussing bringing up the supersaint.

I was referring to your page 1 I'm-being-more-serious-than-usual comment (my original post had a reference to the nicknames I gave out in Lights Out 2, but it was sort of tacky). You questioned my belief in my interpretation of DGB's statement here:

I highly doubt that DGB is even suggesting supersaint and I'm not sure Ether was either,

I don't think scum are more likely on average to hammer than town are, but I'm not so sure that's DGB's belief. People voting on or at least sharing unofficial opinions about a hammer is better than one arbitrarily popping up, especially under deadline fear. I've stated and restated my position here.

Since scum are the only people who would know whether or not the claim is true, they'd be the only people to know they should avoid hammering her. So once a supersaint claims, they're going to get nightkilled before scum would ever be forced to hammer them to end a day.

So why would you encourage DGB to claim supersaint, Ether?

Because lynching someone else and letting her draw a nightkill as supersaint would be better than lynching her as supersaint today?

Also, the sentence "if she's scum, there's still no harm waiting on a supersaint claim" in 371 just slays me. I don't understand it, I find it unbelievably obtuse to essentially offer the scum a safe claim. Why do you want DGBscum to claim SS if she's not?

Supersaint is a dead end claim. I have seen it used as a fakeclaim, yes, and I can see the psychology behind that, but in practice it's only a way to stall. It's a bonus lynch in three-player endgame, or possibly before that, depending on parity. It wouldn't even score a counterclaim the scum would be interested in.

Tell me about your IRC experience, Bluesoul. Wouldn't an explicit supersaint claim be even

worse

for scum in those smaller chat games than in a 12-player mini?

Incidentally, what's your opinion of Elvis?

[MrBuddyLee]

Because lynching someone else and letting her draw a nightkill as supersaint would be better than lynching her as supersaint today?

Duh, but.. Shouldn't she be the one to figure that out? And wouldn't we learn more about her alignment and possible role by letting HER follow that thought process? The net result here is that it comes across like you just blabbed for the sake of blabbing--to look/sound good. But you didn't think it through and it makes you look bad regardless of alignment, Ether.

[Ether]

I don't think scum are more likely on average to hammer than town are, but I'm not so sure that's DGB's belief. People voting on or at least sharing unofficial opinions about a hammer is better than one arbitrarily popping up, especially under deadline fear. I've stated and restated my position here.

Clearly, I disagree with your assessment.

What do you think would have happened instead if I hadn't said anything?

[elvis_knits]

If you guys are really worried about the SS possibility, and think there's scum on the DGB wagon, roll a dice and we'll have our hammer. Personally I'd like to see Ether hammer but dice would be fair and unswayable by scum.

Thank you for at least proposing a solution instead of dicking around.

I unvoted DGB so that others could vote her in safety and I agreed to hammer. However, nobody has taken me up on this offer.

[bluesoul]

DGB: 5 (Pabs, Bluesoul, sarc, ether, Patrick)
Elvis_Knits 2 (chamber, MBL)
sarc: 1 (OGML)
Patrick: 1 (e_k)
MBL: 1 (DGB)

not voting: 2 (Elias, IH)

We would still need one more potential DGB-voter to do anything, e_k. At that point, I'm not sure if we want to do dice or just use you since you've volunteered; logic says use the dice but common sense says to use the volunteer. I think I want another opinion on this.

Tell me about your IRC experience, Bluesoul. Wouldn't an explicit supersaint claim be even worse for scum in those smaller chat games than in a 12-player mini?

Incidentally, what's your opinion of Elvis?

I would see an explicit SS claim to actually be worse for the town than the scum, as no scumbag without a great deal of intestinal fortitude would even think about hammering once it's out in the open. Consequentially, the chances of losing two townies goes up and the chance of trading 1 for 1 goes down; believe it or not scum were much more apt to hammer than town and the SS becomes more powerful (and dangerous (swingy)) as the game progresses. That said, #mafia games were normally 7 to 10 players and were much more focused on making "percentage plays" than gut feelings. I feel that my proposal of using dice has merit as it removes a variable: Rhetoric by players, whether scum or town, to push for a certain player to be the hammer.

Actually, I'd like chamber's opinion on this along with 383. He's got as much or more experience with the Super-Saint as I do and he may have a solution to offer as well.

As for Elvis, last night I managed a full re-read of the game and elvis is now creeping up my scumdar a bit. A lot of that's been due to more recent posts as opposed to earlier in the day. Somewhere between an IGMEOY and a FOS, but not enough to convince me she's lynch worthy at the moment.

[chamber]

DGB: 5 (Pabs, Bluesoul, sarc, ether, Patrick)
Elvis_Knits 2 (chamber, MBL)
sarc: 1 (OGML)
Patrick: 1 (e_k)
MBL: 1 (DGB)

not voting: 2 (Elias, IH)

We would still need one more potential DGB-voter to do anything, e_k. At that point, I'm not sure if we want to do dice or just use you since you've volunteered; logic says use the dice but common sense says to use the volunteer. I think I want another opinion on this.

Tell me about your IRC experience, Bluesoul. Wouldn't an explicit supersaint claim be even worse for scum in those smaller chat games than in a 12-player mini?

Incidentally, what's your opinion of Elvis?

I would see an explicit SS claim to actually be worse for the town than the scum, as no scumbag without a great deal of intestinal fortitude would even think about hammering once it's out in the open. Consequentially, the chances of losing two townies goes up and the chance of trading 1 for 1 goes down; believe it or not scum were much more apt to hammer than town and the SS becomes more powerful (and dangerous (swingy)) as the game progresses. That said, #mafia games were normally 7 to 10 players and were much more focused on making "percentage plays" than gut feelings. I feel that my proposal of using dice has merit as it removes a variable: Rhetoric by players, whether scum or town, to push for a certain player to be the hammer.

Actually, I'd like chamber's opinion on this along with 383. He's got as much or more experience with the Super-Saint as I do and he may have a solution to offer as well.

As for Elvis, last night I managed a full re-read of the game and elvis is now creeping up my scumdar a bit. A lot of that's been due to more recent posts as opposed to earlier in the day. Somewhere between an IGMEOY and a FOS, but not enough to convince me she's lynch worthy at the moment.

tbh I've always liked a claimed ss as opposed to one that refuses to claim anything or fakes a claim. scum may hammer higher then 25-30 percent of the time but in my experience in cases where the defendant refuses to claim or they have a weak to bad claim town still hammer more often say 60-40 (these numbers are pulled out of my ass). So by not claiming you are still likely killing a townie, At least by using it as a potential second lynch you net 2 scummy looking people down. And should the second ever refuse to hammer you just kill them instead. Of course in this case we have a possible deadline and my top candidate is already willing to hammer so, if we do lynch dgb, Im fine with elvis doing it.

[bluesoul]

I'm tempted to wait for more discussion as the case for a hammer's developed pretty rapidly, but I also really want to say that you should vote and e_k should hammer now and just get it the hell over with. It's now been a week without any word from DGB and she continues to blithely play her other games.

[chamber]

I still dont think dgb is a good lynch but i think its become clear enough that the rest of the town isnt getting away from it so

Unvote elvis Vote dgb

[DrippingGoofball]

Dont quite hammer yet.

There are things I must say before I go.

[DrippingGoofball]

First of all, yes, I've been purposely keeping away from the game for a number of reasons. In no particular order, I feel that my presence has been detrimental to the rest of you finding scum, and that being put in a situation by some players where anything and everything I say is labelled 'scummy' hindered my own ability to properly observe other players' interactions and scum hunting.

I have stood back, yes, but all along I've been reading with keen interest to see what might develop. By not letting myself be dragged into a series of useless defensive posts before my lynch, I have gained an outsider's perspective on the game, if you will.

After I'm done, you should still hammer me, because it will be most important for you to know my affiliation. But at least I want to leave the game giving you as many tools as possible to find scum later in the game.

[DrippingGoofball]

I have an analysis coming for each and every player.

[DrippingGoofball]

First, our lurkers, Elias and IH. 'Cuz the easy ones first.

IH has 7 posts in the game. Four of these seven posts contain excuses or no content at all. One actual post every five of days. These posts are reasonably sized, with some content, if a bit rambling and fuzzy but maybe that's my understanding.

Now, which players have called IH out for lurking, which haven't, etc?

MBL - quite aggressively.
Elvis - after MBL wrote: "elvis: "i like chamber", nothing on elias or IH"
pablito actually likes IH. In fact, pablitoo twice mentions how much he likes IH's post #159. pablito says: "I get this argument about everyone connecting everyone else together. In particular, e_k in 222." HOWEVER, pablito points to a post by OGML but not a post by IH! Even though pablito likes OGML's post, he actually says that OGML is on his radar, and IH is not!!! Interestingly, pablito is calling out Elias for lurking, but not IH. Why the unequal treatment?

This is uncharacteristically sloppy work by pablito. I want to know what he thinks of IH. And while he's at it, I want to know what pablito thinks of OGML.

Like pablito, Patrick also calls out Elias for lurking, but not IH. In this post,, Patrick makes what can almost be construed as excuses for IH's lurking. He later says: "I don't think any of them would make a good lynch today; I do think they need more heat early tomorrow so that they stop disgracing this game." Why not today, why tomorrow? What does he expect to change? Patrick does get townie points for pointing out that MBL seems to label IH & Elias as town for "no particular reason."

bluesoul complains about the lurking, he gives no names, but is willing to vote me for lurking and not claiming even though I've "lurked" far, far less than either Elias or IH, neither of which have responded satisfactorily to any pressure.

Neither IH or Elias have voted. IGMEOY, FOS's, top suspects, but no vote. That part I don't get. It's clear that Elias is not even following the game, but IH at least pretends to. Yet he has no found cause to park his vote somewhere.

I want it on record that some players are letting these two get away with lurking and not voting, and happily jumping on my wagon.

More to come, I have to decide who's next.

[DrippingGoofball]

MBL is townie-town-town. Which he would be regardless of his alignment. He recently fooled me quite thoroughly in mith's latest game but I can't really find flaw in his play here either. He's going to drive me crazy all game that way.

More to come.

[chamber]

unvote

[DrippingGoofball]

Now that I've indulged in analyzing the two easiest players (I'm not counting MBL because he is way too wily for little old me to figure out), I'm going to move on to one of the most complex figures in the game.

Yes, I'm going to tackle elvis.

[DrippingGoofball]

Elvis:

Ether picks up on elvis' stiffling discussion by dismissing's MBL 'first content in the game.' Elvis immediately agreed that the criticism was correct.

Very, very early in the game, in post #41 to be exact, elvis imediately puts bluesoul on the defensive by asking if he thinks MBL is scum. It feels like a trap, because being this early, there's not much that bluesoul can answer that couldn't be misinterpreted as scummy. I note that he made a wishy washy answer and ducked successfully.

Again prematurely, there's this very scummy post:

Patrick... MBL thinks you had ulterior motives to starting bandwagon on him. You have never addressed these concerns. Explain.

It's scummy because she's using MBL's argument/attack to herself attack Patrick while looking like she's supporting MBL, without having to make the argument herself, and being protected against a counter-attack from Patrick because heck, it's MBL's argument, not hers. This small little sentence is manipulative on a great many levels. It smacks of scum. Now let's see who pickedk it up and who let it slide.

Patrick didn't put up with it and voted elvis in the next post. Elvis responded in what I believe to be an indignant tone: "And that makes you want to vote me?" So here I have to consider the possibility of distancing. Interestingly, Patrick's take on elvis's post is a bit like mine: "Not in itself, you just seem to be on the sidelines a fair bit." Indeed, I agree.

Sarcastro, OGML and PJ totally ignore it. I'm not sure how to interpret it, but it is noted.

Elvis' next move consists in voting for me for "buttering up three people in a single post" - a quote by PJ. So once again, elvis shields herself from attack, counter-attack and criticism by hiding behind another player's action.

Once again, Patrick call out elvis, pointing out that she's not commenting on players' alignment (though I will add that she herself demanded it of others), and that she hangs on to details that are not relevant, and she recognizes are not relevant.

So either Patrick is bus'ing elvis on he's on her case more than anyone so far.

Finally in this post she relents and answers some of Patrick's questions. I can't put my finger on why, but the whole post reeks of post hoc. However she puts a lot of effort trying to ward off Patrick's attacks. This diminished the probability of bus'ing, in my book.

Also, she rails a lot against MBL, who I cautiously put on my town list in the game. I have to think about that. She wrote: "Patrick, now that you have forced me to pay more attention to this game I am realizing how much I don't like MBL." Then she unvotes me, and votes MBL. Hmmmmm...

bluesoul ignores the elvis issue, alons with Sarcastro, OGML and PJ previously, I'm adding him to the list. MBL FOS's elvis. I have to confess that I would have felt more comfortable if he'd voted elvis outright.

PJ finally addresses elvis in post 104 - shockingly by announcing that he's FINE with elvis' catch up posts. How could an intelligent player like PJ buy this? Were they that good? I'm not seeing it.

In post 105, elvis does bring up a good point against MBL.

At last OGML has something to say on MBL vs. elvis - OGML attacks MBL and ignores elvis.

Brilliant, Ether picks on "Why hasn't anyone but Patrick ever so much as commented on this?" about elvis. Yeah, that's a bloody good question.

Elvis responds to Ether's challenged with an other sneaky couter-attack in post 114 where she asks: "why do you still have a problem with the question I asked Patrick?" which is kinda worded like "when did you stop beating your wife?"

Sarcastro makes a substantial post and again ignores elvis, but places MBL on his suspect list.

elvis's 153 is pure unadulterated squirming. Look at this wishy-washy, say-nothing sentence: "He had a point about me not being involved enough, so, yes, he could be scum, but not necessarily." Yep. Everyone could be scum, but not necessarily. What a way to plump up a post without saying a thing. She's answering to MBL, and this time she's serious with it, she doesn't seem to hid behind other players the way she started the game.

In post 158, elvis produces this little gem to chamber: "Care to explain what you believe is strange and why that brand of strangeness = scummy? And why you vote bluesoul over MBL if they are both strange?" What??? I know she's beating the drum against MBL (though she's very very willing to vote for me too), but she quickly object to a vote on bluesoul. At this point I don't think elvis is bus'ing MBL. She's overdone it, to qualify as bus'ing.

As an aside, OGML makes 3 posts in row. None of them have an opinion on MBL or elvis. Nope. He's seeing what no one else is seeing: "Sarc, PJ and Ether" What??? Uh??? Elvis and OGML share some friendly non-game banter.

PJ still comes in and ignores elvis vs. MBL. PJ does it again. And again.

I'm up to page 10 with elvis. More to come.

SO far, Sarcastro, OGML, bluesoul and PJ -

totally giving elvis a free pass in the game.

And who was voting for me at that point in the game? petroleumjelly, bluesoul, Sarcastro, Patrick, elvis_knits. Elvis herself, and two of the player that keep giving her a free pass, Sarc and PJ. OGML is off the wagon. Speculation: if elvis is scum, she's scum with OGML and one of Sarc and PJ.